Hi keedm002,

Did you go to the Montreux area already, or was that one of the (discarded) plans for your honeymoon?

Do you want to see/be in the mountains?

Unfortunately, many areas of Switzerland offer good food and wine, and almost *all* of them give you great scenery.

I would suggest Spiez on Lake Thun, Gstaad, or Montreux. Spiez will give you some mountain options as well as sight-seeing around the lakes and getting to Gstaad, Gruyeres, and Montreux if you want. Gstaad will give you (low-ish) mountains and day-trips to Montreux, Thun, Spiez, Gruyeres, Broc, Chateau d'Oex, Rougemont, and Saanen. Montreux, I think you already have a good idea about.

www.spiez.ch
www.gstaad.ch
www.montreux-vevey.com

Have fun as you plan!

s

Hi Swandev,

Montreux is an earlier *possibly* discarded plan - I would love to go there however flights work better into Zurich so I was worrying it may be a bit out of our way? It looks like it is 3 hours from Zurich and then 3 hours to Milan... do you think it is still worth the trip, or is there somewhere more convenient you would recommend??

I will definitely look into your other suggestions.

I think I have looked into it and rethought it so many times I am just confusing myself now!!!

Hi again,

Yup, Montreux is 3h from Zurich airport; Spiez is 2h, and Gstaad is 3h.

If convenience to Zurich airport is a priority, then hands-down the destination should be Luzern, which is just an hour by direct train. Luzern has something of all of Switzerland -- history, mountains, and a lake system. Information at

www.luzern.com

Maybe you could stay in one of the towns or villages along the lakes so you would have more of a countryside visit -- Weggis, Vitznau, or Brunnen would work.

www.luzern.com
www.weggis.ch
www.vitznau.ch

s

Montreux is as good as anywhere else in terms of getting TO Milan by rail and so what if it's 3 hours from Zurich...Milan from Zurich airport is a minimum of FOUR hours so what's a couple more hours if you get to see a place which has a lot of scenery, is right on the lake, is close to other things such as the trip up to Rochers de Naye where you will get absolutely fabulous scenery, etc.

If you were so inclined you could easily take a day trip to Zermatt for Matterhorn peak viewing.

And if Lucern is where you end up that's certainly not bad either.

In terms of absolutely five star accomodation, that may be slightly more difficult to accomplish. You could go somewhere like Lausanne and stay in a hotel like the Beau Rivage Palace but I'm not sure that is worth the extra star or so.

Montreux area 5-star hotels would be (for me):

Hôtel des Trois Couronnes

Grand Hôtel Du Lac

Both in Vevey

There are two 5-stars in Montreux, but one (Palace) is across the busy main street from the lake, and the other (Royal Plaza) is rather businesslike in decor.

s

Thanks so much for your help both of you!

Ok, so I am thinking either somewhere on Lake Geneva or somewhere on Lake Lucerne. What would be your preference if you were me, and why???

Have to ask -- what is important to you?

Mountains? Then Luzern

Cafe society? Then Montreux/Vevey

There are vineyards outside of Vevey, but they don't look great in the fall when they are just brown sticks in the mud. And, you can taste Swiss wine anywhere in the country.

I think they would be equal for good food; you'd just have to do some homework to find the best restaurants.

Shopping would probably be best in Luzern. There are some shops in the old town of Vevey, and I love spending hours there, but of course Luzern would offer more. Montreux doesn't have that many shops, just one street really.

Hope you find something to help you decide!

s

5-star hotel in Vitznau:
http://www.vitznauerhof.ch/

Weggis:
http://www.parkweggis.ch/en/park-weggis.html

s

Hi,
It all depends on what you want to do when not in the hotel. Do you want to stay the entire time in 1 place/town, or willing to pack up every 2 days to see as much as possible? Then I would recommend staying at least the first night in Zurich (wonderful hotels and restaurants) and take a day trip to Luzern (beautiful but in the wrong direction, which will only add to your travel time). We haven't been to Montreux, so that is where I would go, for 2 nights and to end off the week, 2 nights in Wengen or Mürren on the Jungfraujoch railway line between Lauterbrunnen and the Jungfrau. I haven't been everywhere in Switzerland (yet!), but I cannot imagine that you can beat the scenery in either of these towns.
But it is a beautiful country and you will have a great time.
Good luck and enjoy the planning!

Looks like Luceren is your best bet. On the other hand, it's on pretty low elevation and in October the plains in Switzerland can be stuck under "high fog", which means clouds above the towns, sun up in the mountains.

May I come up with another idea? Upper Engadine. The larch trees should have turned yellow/golden by first week of October, very beautiful. There are plenty of 5star hotels in the area: Either Grand Hotel Kronenhof in Pontresina or Hotel Waldhaus in Sils-Maria would be my choice. Avoid St. Moritz itself, it's too overbuilt, ugly.

Getting from Pontresina or Sils to Milan is easy. Either scenic train over the Bernina Pass to Tirano, change to Italian train there, or Postal bus to Chiavenna, change to Italian train there. Or: Palm Express bus to Lugano, train to Milan.

<<There are vineyards outside of Vevey, but they don't look great in the fall when they are just brown sticks in the mud. And, you can taste Swiss wine anywhere in the country.>>

Sorry. I have to disagree with you on this. The vineyards in beautiful in the fall. They turn from reds, to oranges to a beautiful golden yellow. Only now in mid-November do they start looking like sticks in the mud.

Plus, in October you still have the grape harvest with a couple of harvest festivals going on.

Lucerne & Lausanne areas would be a great trip & you'll confuse your friends when you tell them where you went. "We spent 3 days Lucerne & 3 days in Lausanne"... "huh?".

Lausanne, you can stay at the Lausanne Palace or the BeauRivage.
Lucerne, you could stay at The Hotel. Not sure it's 5*, but its a wonderful deluxe boutique hotel and it will confuse your friends! Who says the Swiss don't have a sense of humor.

I don't know the other areas to compare but I am absolutely crazy for Montreux/Vevey/Lausanne area of Switzerland. It is incredible. I'd live there if I could figure out how to do it. There is just a lovely atmosphere about that area, hard to describe, and the way it sits on the lake with the mountains as backdrop is certainly breathtaking by any standards.

http://www.ermitage-montreux.com/
If you can see your way down one star (lol) L'ermitage in Clarens is a very special place (but only four stars). Both a restaurant and guest rooms. Right on the lake.

As a fellow Aussie, my choice would be to divide my time between Lucerne and Lauterbrunnen. In Lucerne, apart from wandering around the old town, you could take the boat across the lake to Mt Pilatus - great trip.
In Lauterbrunnen, take the cable car to Schilthorn or the train to Jungfrau.
Must admit we also loved Montreux and Vevey.
You'll find it super easy to connect from your plane to the trains in Zurich - all in one building.

LucyLemonade,

Agreed that the vineyards are splendid in the fall, but the trick is to time it just right -- as it so depends on the temps and amount of rainfall. I think it's just about perfect from mid-September to mid-October, but after that it's just too if-fy. I disagree that they look good up until mid-Nov!

s

Thanks so much everyone for all your assistance! After reading through your thoughts, I think we will stay in Vitznau or Weggis on Lake Lucerne. We are hoping it will be relaxing in these towns whilst giving us easy access to lakes, mountains and walking trails. I also imagine there will be some nice restaurants around due to the number of 5 star hotels around the lake. I also like the idea of only a 1 hrs train trip after our 25 hour flight!

I still would really love to visit Lake Geneva, but after talking with my fiancee I think we are looking for a more stereotypical Swiss experience. We would both like to explore France (we have only been to Paris) so I think this could be incorporated in years to come

We are thinking of spending one night on top of Mt Pilatus in the Hotel Pilatus Kulm for the ultimate mountain top experience.

I really like the idea of visiting the Bernese Oberland, but given the time of year we are travelling I would be worried about the weather, and it seems quite out of the way for the amount of time we have. I think we would both be happy just vising Mt Rigi and Mt Pilatus, cruising on the lake and relaxing in comfort.

We are thinking of staying in the Park Weggis or the Vitznauerhof (I think the latter is my preference), any thoughts on these or other recommendations? I don't think we would like to stay right in Lucerne, but are happy to stay just out of it or in another town on the lake. I have looked into the Hotel Villa Honegg and we really like it, but it seems a bit inconvenient as we will not have a car, plus it is at the top of our budget (prefer to spend around 400chf but could go up to 500chf for something spectacular).

I would strongly recommend staying in Zurich your first night. This will allow you to have a relaxing day and get over any symptoms of jet lag. I love Luzern, so I would base myself there if I were you, but Weggis is also a good choice if you want something more remote.

Although it has been nine years since we went to Switzerland, the scenery hasn't changed. Here is our three days in Grindelwald with photos. Probably as beautiful an area as we have ever traveled to in our life. Great hiking, cool train trip and even had time for wine.


http://www.travelswithmaitaitom.com/Tom_%26_Tracy_Home/Germany,_France,_Switzerland,_Italy_2003/Entries/2011/12/24_Chapter_Four_-_Grindelwald%2C_Switzerland.html

If going by train as many do in Switzerland, especially if going to often car-free Alpine hot spots like Zermatt and the Jungfrau Region and if going in October strongly look at the Swiss Pass - a 4-consecutive-day pass if it fits or a 4-day Flexipass (Swaverpass on either - two to five names on one pass for about a 20% p p discount) - but the past few years in October there has been a 2 for 1 sale on only this length of Swiss Passes - so with the 2 for 1 you cannot go wrong IMO - will take you to the Italian border on your way out.

for loads of great stuff on Swiss trains and passes, etc I always spotlight these IMO fantastic sites - www.swisstravelsystem.com; http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html and www.ricksteves.com. And IME compare the cost of the pass in your home country, down under, to prices you would pay at stations in Switzerland - IME there has often been a discrepancy between pricing for the same exact pass and often it seems to be cheaper here (in U S) than in Switzerland - the same may be true of OZ?

Zurich to Milan then I would suggest the Interlaken/Jungfrau Region - smack on a main rail line (or a short train ride off it) to Milan - a great place for a few days - if not into Alpine Wonderland then day trip to places like Bern (one of the most underrated cities in Europe IMO - lovely old town with famous museums) or Lucerne - via the scenic Brunig Pass rail route - both Bern and Lucerne and of course Interlaken have great shopping but be prepared for sticker shock in what is one of the world's most expensive countries.

5 star or equivalent accommodation is a must, which rules out some lovely little towns.>

Interlaken certainly has some of that type of hotel - some with scintillating views of the snow-girdled Jungfrau massif from room balconies.

http://www.victoria-jungfrau.ch/meta/home/

A famous 5-star hotel in Interlaken - the fabled Victoria-Jungfrau Hotel, a watering hole for the rich and famous since Victorian days - sweet views of the Jungfrau Massif from rooms facing south!

My girlfriend lives just outside Luzern and highly recommends
The Art Deco Hotel Montanna Restaurant in Luzern. They have a fantastic 4-6 course dinner with wine selected for each course.

I would absolutley recommend Spiez. I travelled from Australia and my base in Spiez was a perfect choice. Train connections to everywhere I wished to go. Trains are fantastic and Spiez was a wonderful quiet town with views of Thunersee (lake) and the alps - made for a perfect end to a day's fun.

Consider the lakefront town of Brunnen.
We stayed there last month (October 12), and it has good transport connections, many restaurants and cafes, several very fine hotels.
Be aware that Vitznau is served mainly by bus or boat connections, and is a VERY small town.
Brunnen is 45 minutes by train to Luzern and just one hour to Zurich, so Pilatus and Rigi are quite do-able (we did both).
In October is usually Luzern's "Herbstmesse" or fall festival over 10 days---a bonus that we got to visit this year, so do check fot the dates next year!

Oooh, the Luzern Fair dates for 2013 are October 5-20!
It was a great experience, with amusement rides (ferris wheel would provide fantastic photos of the surrounding mountains),
delectable sweets stands, sausages, crepe stands, and a multitude of booths selling EVERYTHING from teas to jewelry, scarves, etc!
No matter where you end up staying, DO try to visit the fair!

I doubt if either Brunnen or Spiez have the requisite 5-star hotels the OP needs?

Spiez, Brunnen and Vitnau no doubt are wonderful towns but they cannot match the atmosphere IMO of one of Switzerland's famous Alpine resorts - like Interlaken or Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen or Zermatt or Engelberg, etc. - places where the mountains awesomely rise up right from these towns and it is only a short hike or train or gondola ride to the famous sights.

Ok, so I am thinking either somewhere on Lake Geneva or somewhere on Lake Lucerne. What would be your preference if you were me, and why???>

I think you've made a sweet choice with Vitznau and Lake Lucerne, to me the prettiest of all Swiss lakes, especially around Vitznau since it is a fjord-like lake at this point, hemmeed in by sheer cliffs and hills and mountains.

Boats will still be running frequently around the lake, making getting from Vitznau to Lucerne or Mt Pilatus (Alpnachstad boat dock) easy - by train you'd have to take the Rigi Bahn mountain railway to Arth-Goldau I think then train to Lucerne - boat may be just as fast and a sweeter experience.

since you are on a huge budget strongly consider buying a first-class Swiss Pass - 2nd class on Swiss trains is OK but first class is much much more OK - always lots of empty seats and you usually put your baggage on an empty seat next to you.

Seats are larger - all in all for the trip of a lifetime with a seemingly unlimited budget apply the same criteria to train travel as you do to having *****hotels!

Again I think the Jungfrau Region makes a perfect 4-5 day stay and is right on (just a short shuttle train off) a main rail route to Milan.

And there here is my favorite day excursion in that whole wondrous area and one that I never tired of replicating whenever I am in this wondrous area.

Wherever you base it is easy to take a train to Interlaken or Lauterbrunnen and then go straight up a sheer cliff a few thousand feet via aerial cable car to Grutschalp to hop on a train that rolls along the cliff, with scintillating views of the deep Lauterbrunnen Valley and the majestic glacier-girdled Jungfrau Massif across the valley to Murren

Murren is a venerable watering hole once favored by wealthy Brits - from this picture postcard village in an awesome setting hop the longest cableway in the Alps, I read, to the Schilthorn and the Piz Gloria, made famous in James Bond flick On Her Majesty's Serive (which was filmed as the Piz Gloria revolving restaurant was being built - in part I think for the movie) -the Schilthorn is an icy outpost in the middle of a sea of ice with views for many many miles around.

a unique place for sure - with the famous revolving restaurant and ice caves, etc. and a viewing platform outside.

Return by cable to Murren and then hop the cable way down to Gimmelwald, a lost-in-time farming hamlet that has gained some fame in recent years due to its stunning surroundings - isolated in the midst of rugged Alpine scenery.

From Gimmelwald another aerial gondola seems to plunge back down to the valley floor at Stechelberg - nervous Nellies should stand in the middle of this large gondola to avoid being freaked out at the prodigious rate of descent!

From Stechelberg postal buses take you back to Lauterbrunnen for trains to Interlaken and onto Brienz.

A Swiss Pass is valid 100% the whole way except for the Murren to Schithorn which is 50% off - but the rest including the aerial gondolas from the valley and back down are 100% covered by a Swiss Pass as are all trains - only 50% for Murren to Schilthorn and back - a great deal with a Swiss Pass and to me with all its varied aspects the finest single day out in the whole Jungfrau Region!m in the area.

@swandav2000
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. This year the vineyards looked beautiful up until a few days before I wrote my post. They are now covered with snow and look beautiful for a different reason. Anyway, the OP said they were going in the first week of Oct which is a lovely time to visit.

@keedm002
Sounds like a wonderful trip!

vineyards are also a beautiful site to behold for me - even the flat ones along the main rail line along the Rhone Valley between Visp and Montreux - seems like the train slices right thru them for miles.

And Sion has hills with vineyards on it.

Ice already in Vevey - wow would have never dreamt that - do they now make Ice Wine out of the frozen grapes or are the grapes already plucked?

The grapes should have been picked by the end October. December is quite late for any grapes. Though I'm not sure what ice wine is exactly.

The name "ice" wine should give you a clue. These grapes are picked when it's not warmer than -7 Celsius. Then they are pressed out, still frozen, due the mash is very thick. The wine that results from it is very sweet, an excellent and super expensive dessert wine.

This year it worked out in my region (Saxony, Eastern Germany). They picked the grapes last weekend.

The Mosel Valley is one region in Germany renown for its Ice Wein but it only happens occasionally - that it gets cold enough to freeze when the grapes are still on the vine - it is ballyhooed for good reason and a delicacy like Ingo mentions.

Well, the "ice" bit could very well have been at any stage of the production. Like "ice" cream is not made when the cows are frozen.

If there are any grapes on the vines now they were left there on purpose for a late harvest or perhaps for ice wine. (shrug) I can't say as I've never heard of it before.

Most of the regular harvest is done by mid-Oct.

I doubt the climate at Lac Leman is favourable for this kind of delicacy. Thus it's not known there, I guess.

I don't know if it's "not known there". _I_ have never heard of it and I can't speak for the whole of the Lake Geneva area.

Well I was shocked to hear that Montreux even had snow this early in the winter and think they rarely do so they would not leave the grapes on for a remote chance they may freeze on the wine - and a bit of snow does not automatically mean the grapes would freeze.