Canadian Flags on your backpack

I think we should leave the flags behind and enjoy visiting Europe.

ludicrous

I never travel anywhere without a Canadian Flag displayed on my luggage!! But then I AM Canadian and just proud of it!

I've never had people fall over to treat me any better than any of my other travelers companions (some of who come from the United States).

JandaO, I'm not sure we're going to let you, but if you can answer these few questions, there may be hope:

How do Canadians pronounce the letter "Z"?

What is a bush party?

A toonie?

A riding?

Pogey?

How about allophone?

Back bacon?

Click, as in a measure of speed or distance?

Can you use the word dépanneur in a sentence?

What do we mean when we refer to someone as "pure laine"?

And the toughest one of all, what great Canadian event happened on September 28, 1972? If you get that one right, what Canadian band wrote about it in one of their songs?

Good luck, the clock is ticking.

Anselm

"Click" as in a measure of speed or distance is hardly a Canadian phenom...we've used it in the US military for years.

Love the Canadiana! Being Canadian and proud of it, I always like to wear a Canadian pin. I take lots of them too, and give them to kids if they are interested. It goes over well, and makes people smile.

Hi J,

How do you pronounce "about"?

To Intrepid1, if I say "click" to an average American, they have no idea what we are talking about. The US military is another issue, as all militaries have a special, often universal lingo.

Most people in Europe could care less -- just bring your tourist $$$ or Euro.

In 37 straight years of European travels i've never been abused, attacked or had any unpleasant incidents because i'm an American so how would a Canadian flag help me? Or anyone - this is one of those 'evergreen' ideas that surface periodically, especially during times of American blunders and bulliness abroad such as in Iraq - Europeans don't blame our government's actions on travelers - though Bush's approval ratings in Europe are around zero i've seen no difference towards ordinary travelers.

please understand that I would never do this. I thought it was ludicrous also.
Just wanted to see if anyone wouldnt say they were American when they were.

Anselm,

The whole notion that Americans are mistreated in Europe is bunk. If you act like a jerk, it doesn't matter what colors you fly.

And i would never wear an American flag abroad or at home either - i'm not a flag waver and when i see Canadians/Canadiens abroad wearing them i actually take offense that they are saying "we're not Americans" - makes me want to vomit actually - same when i see Yanks wearing American flags.

i meant to type...
werent american when they were...

ira!
How do you pronounce "roof"?

.......Anselm - your questions have a
decidedly East Coast bias! As a B.C.
native I have no idea what some of them
mean - bush party? Pogey? Allophone?

........Only Boy Scouts/Girl Guides
should festoon themselves with pins
and badges, everyone else should
travel on their own merits - leave
the flags at home!

llamalady, guilty as charged, LOL.

At least I didn't ask JandaO how to pronounce Musquodoboit, eh?

Anselm

Why not a Brazilian one?

Sept 28, 1972 is an easy one.

Canadians can tell you exactly where they were, and who they were with, when Henderson scored.

Must have missed the song though.

this is an old chestnut. Don't roast it, throw it out

I always see Canadian flags on luggage and for the longest time thought "wow, those Canadians really get around" but then it turned out that most of them were Americans posing as Canadian to not get "busted." I am not a flag or patch person at all, though I do like me a nice pin and am gunning for one from Fodors. . .

What is this? Don't ask, don't tell?

Following the Tour de France every year we carry our flags everywhere. Because everyone wears or flies their "Colors" having the flag out has been a wonderful conversation starter, and people have been very welcoming and kind to us.

Having said that, I will also say that even when we are in areas far from the days tour route, we have been welcomed warmly, when people found out we were Americans.

Never fear letting people know who you are and where you are from, most likely they will ask if you know their sisters son who has a restaurant in Chicago, "he's a very good cook, you should try it".

One problem with the Maple Leaf ploy is that Europeans are on to it, and are as likely to think you're another stupid American as a Canuck.

I wear an American flag pin on the lapel of my jacket every day in the States. When I travel to Europe I do not do so because I do not want to provoke some moron in to a confrontation.

Let me add I would not be shy in France, for example, in calling the attention of an American flag burner to the American cemetery at Colville-sur-Mer in Normandy.

Americans need not wave the flag in Europe. The deeds of our forefathers speak for themselves.

Anthony
Anthony

This goes back to my first visit to Germany, as a student back in the late 60's.

I've got this little Maple Leaf on my jacket and this elderly lady spots it. She gets really emotional, tears, hugs, kisses on the cheeks...the whole nine yards.

Kind of a touching scene.
It took me about 5 minutes to realise the B*tch had pickpocketed my wallet.

A true story.

??? What makes you think you'll see American flags burning in France??

What I remember is a gentleman in Bordeaux grabbing the end of the flag I had on my shoulders and kissing it.

Many Europeans are well aware that people walking around with Canadian flags on their backpacks are actually American, so you're not fooling anyone, and you're proving to the rest of the world that at least some Americans are cowards who cheerfuly deny their nationality.

guaranteed, the band was The Tragically Hip. Something about "If there's a goal that everyone remembers, it was back in old '72 ... "

Anselm

Canadians are often mistaken for Americans in Europe. I am Canadian but I don't wear a Canadian flag when I travel in Europe as I feel that all I'm saying is that I'm not American and personally I think that's rude to our American neighbours.

Anyone who is embarrassed/ashamed/fearful about being recognized for who they are is not a candidate for travel.

Waving your national flag while abroad is, as far as most of us are concerned, a real loser's thing to do. Football supporters. Nationalist extremists. Englishmen going up the Amazon on a one-wheeled cycle. That sort of thing.

Rationally, we know Canadians are just trying to say they're not American, so - since we really, really, don't care - we ought just to dismiss them as having an exaggerated sense of their own importance.

In practice, however unfair it might be, we tend to lump them in with the other flag wavers: Ulster Unionists, Lazio supporters or Polish skinheads.

Not company most of us would care to be in.

But somehow, I don't really think these maple leaf fetishists have the remotest interest in what anyone else thinks.

"Canadian Flags on your backpack"

Just how tacky is that?

I'm sorry if I was misunderstood. I don't go around waving an American flag, but I was trying to indicate that there are times when it can be flown freely and openly, as when others are displaying their country's flag at sporting events. The olympics are a prime example as is any other sporting event that has participants from all over the world.

For general travel, I don't usually carry or wear anything that would indicate my nationality. I am not ashamed of it, I just don't see the need to wear it on my lapel.

You just now heard that it is a good idea? People were telling me to put a Canadian flag on my luggage in the early 80's. One trip I used a Tongan flag just for a conversation starter.

" when i see Canadians/Canadiens abroad wearing them i actually take offense that they are saying "we're not Americans" - makes me want to vomit actually"

Would never have occurred to me that wearing a flag would cause such a violent reaction!

Celticharper,
Im with you. I carry nothing that would indicate what country I am from. I dont even own any flags or pins.

>One trip I used a Tongan flag
So how do you like Nuku'alofa. Not much to see there but the surrounding islands are beautiful.

I really have always wanted to visit Tonga. I was using the flag to identify my luggage from the crowd too. It worked.

I used to put stickers from every country I visited on my hard-sided luggage, not for wanting to hide my Americanism just for decoration.

No backpack
No flags

"And i would never wear an American flag abroad or at home either - i'm not a flag waver and when i see Canadians/Canadiens abroad wearing them i actually take offense that they are saying "we're not Americans" - makes me want to vomit actually - same when i see Yanks wearing American flags."

Personally I have no idea why it is offensive to some when people wear lapel pins or flag patches. I did it when I travelled as a young person some years ago AND so did many other young people. It was a GREAT conversation starter at Youth Hostels and we frequently traded pins and patches. I still have a small Swedish flag patch and a really pretty French flag pin.

As a Canadian living in Europe, I am sometimes asked by first time travellers if they should put on a flag patch. I say fer sure eh, I am more likely to tap you on the shoulder and ask if you need help if I see a fellow countryman in a strange land. But other than that and being a topic of conversation with other travellers, I have never seen any advantage to it.

But anyway it is a common question and the OP shouldn't be flamed for asking. Such is the purpose of forums like this.

Liked the Canadian test! But am stumped on allophone and dépanneur?! And shouldn't there be a question on ski-doos and Hortons?

Was the Hip song Fireworks?

llamalady - as a former westerner the terms pogey and bush party were famalier words to us. actually I might have been a bit too famalier with the term bush party during my younger days!!

Wouldn't the real canadian test be something like:

What would you do on a two weeks holiday in Flin Flon???

How tell the difference between an Aussie and a Canadian?

An Aussie woudl never wear a "Roots Canada" T-shirt!

After this thread, I think I'm going to put my state flag on my backpack and see what responses I get.

actually most Roots clothing I see in Europe is worn by locals who have visited Canada(or a relative of someone who has)

as for Flin Flon, one could head to Saskatchewan of course. Maybe do some shopping for genuine seal-skin bindings(obscure Super Dave reference from my childhood).

One truly can never tell where another is from. I have two friends who traveled to Italy for their honeymoon. They returned having had a bad time and wanting never to return(don't ask and don't harass - I didn't say I had a bad time). One complaint was that the individuals in the service industry were quite rude in Rome. My friend's explanation was that they all must have known my friends were American. Ironically, she is Russian (now an American citizen, but definitely Russian born), he is from Montreal and really doesn't look a bit American - neither of them do! I didn't have the heart to point this out to her.

adwinn
in Europe may be - in Oz I think not

adwinn, I might have overestimated the reach of allophone and dépanneur. The former is usually used in the Quebec media for someone whose mother tongue is neither English nor French. The word does appear fairly frequently outside Quebec, but usually in an article or discussion about Quebec.

Dépanneur? A corner store in Quebec, but the word in used in northern New Brunswick and Ottawa, and by a lot of anglos who have ever spent any time in or near Quebec. (I was in Beijing with my Montreal-born nephew last month and he referred to the little store where we bought water and beer as a dépanneur.)

I should have added something about Tim's, but I can't stand the stuff. (I know, it's a national addiction.)

Anselm

Allophone?

I thought Allophone was a telephone in Quebec.

As in "Allo statue". Which translates into "Hello is that you", when someone answers the phone in Quebec.

Only kidding, eh.

"makes me want to vomit actually" Wow that's pretty extreme isn't it? I usually like to know where tourists are from.

I hope I didn't leave a wave of vomiting tourists after looking at my Tongan flag!

I'm a Canadian, proud of it, and always wear a small Canadian flag lapel pin - wherever I am. It's not for anyone else, it's for me. I feel good wearing it.

But a funny story - My husband is very proud of his Irish heritage. On our last visit to Ireland he purchased a car decal with the Irish flag which he dutifully put on our vehicle when we returned home.

I was walking out of the supermarket one day when I looked towards our car to see this little old lady and man gesturing wildly at my bewildered husband. As I got closer, it appeared they were berating him for displaying the Irish flag instead of a Canadian one. In their opinion, he wasn't being loyal to his own country.

Go figure.

I can't for the life of me understand why Americans would want to try to pass themselves off as citizens of another country.

I can understand Canadians displaying maple leaf flags because they are proud of their country, but I suspect that many of them are trying to send the message,"Look at me, I'm not an American!" For that I have no sympathy at all.

More subtle ways to advertise one's self as a Canadian (at least to other Canadians) is to carry a MEC bag or pack. The Tim's cup (as featured in that sappy advertisement) is another way. Roots accoutrements will also do the trick, but most of them are pretty obvious.

However, for those who do wish to pass themselves off as Canadians, here are some further questions to the ones that AnselmeAdorne posed.

What's a double-double?

What's a two-four blue?

Can you competently use all eight categories of the interrogative "Eh?"

Can you distinguish a loonie from a toonie? Without looking?

Who is Stompin' Tom and what is his connection with hockey?

Who has more hair--Lloyd Robertson or Peter Mansbridge? For a bonus, name two of Peter's wives.

Answer these and you can put the Maple Leaf on your backpack with pride.

cantstayhome,
allo, statue?
"He is from Montreal & doesn't look a bit American". What you mean by dat? eh? Does he have poutine stains on his tee shirt?

Oh, oh. I have to turn in my citizenship. Peter Mansbridge had two wives? Sequentially, I trust. Wendy Mesley and ?

Got all the others.

Anselm

My husband *is* Canadian, but probably can't answer any of those questions. So it's probably a good thing he doesn't have the slightest inclination to carry a backpack in the first place, much less stick a Canadian flag on it.

You should wear a Brazilian flag. Everybody knows it's the coolest flag in the world anyway.

Jules

Anselm: Peter has had three--one in his younger days, then Wendy, and now the lovely and talented Cynthia Dale.

I have to confess, the topic of Canadian lapel pins, etc. really gets me going.

I'm an American and I could never imagine denying my nationality abroad. I mean, maybe if I was being held hostage by Peruvian separatists, but there are only ever a small handful of Peruvian separatists riding the London Eye and wandering through the Christmas markets in Germany.

As for Canadians who wear the maple leaf... it is fine to have pride in one's country. If you publicize your Canadian-ness expecting better treatment from the locals, you are feeding into a stereotype. If you have a maple leaf patch on your bag to express your national pride, please do not be so smug when you see some "stupid", "provincial" American with a Boston Red Sox hat or an American flag sticker on his backpack.

Another Urban Myth hits the dust

FWIW, I was just in London two weeks ago and only saw one maple leaf emblem on a backpack my entire time there. I saw plenty of American tourists, so cigalechanta (sp) is probably right, that another urban travel myth bites the dust! *LOL

what is your problem with the maple leaf anyway?
not your country
not your symbol
not imposed on anyone

Ya know, when I was living in France in the early '70's, this was a very popular custom with Canadians. Don't know if it was because of the Vietnam War or whatever, but I'll say at least back then, you'd do way better in France with a U.S. flag on your backpack than a Union Jack, lol.

how is Union Jack related to the Canadian flag?

We came across 4 teens with Canadian flags on their lapels sitting in Gare de Lyon. We went over and talked with them for quite awhile so it was all good.
We have come across many visitors in Toronto displaying their country - the Union Jack T shirt was quite popular for awhile - somehow. It has often been a reason or conversation... even if they are Yankee fans.
My Toronto Blue Jays baseball cap got plenty of attention in Japan.
Holland was a country that noticed our Canadian pins, it was June 2005.
Canadians are not usually known to be flag wavers so those reactions were interesting to me.

Even the difference between a English Canadian tourist and a French Canadian tourist can be funny. When in Paris, on a walking tour through Montmartre, one of the tourist in my group was a Montreal francophone. She was okay except that she did get a little bit more smug whenever the tour guide would ask what certain phrases meant; and even more smug when the tour guide asked us who the statue at the Montmartre cemetary was - oh she was going on about how Dalida was so loved in Quebec back home, and smugly said and the rest of Canada, of course, never heard of her. So it's funny these little things between neighbourhood and stuff like that.

nbujic,

Canada used to fly the Union Jack until we got our own flag, the Maple Leaf.

It's pretty self-centred of Americans who think that the only reason a Canadian might wear a maple leaf pin or have a flag on their backpack is so they won't be mistaken for Americans.

Get over yourselves. Sometimes people just want to be recognized for their own nationality, not as a reaction to yours. Sheesh!

(And I didn't get all the answers to the Canadian quiz. Do I have to turn in my ookpik?)

yes, I know. It was about 40 years ago.

I was only wondering why someone mentioned it talking about Canadians in Europe in the 70s.

We are in Italy now and we just heard a Canadian couple talking about all the maple leafs and Canadian flags on the backpacks.. I haven't personally noticed, but there is so much to see than other people's backpacks.

robjame - The DUtch hold the Canadians in high esteem, for their help in WW2 and after and in 2005 you would have been seen as part of the 60 years since liberation celebrations. Every year a (diminishing) group of Canadian veterans come to Holland in May for liberation day.
Don't forget the Canada offered a home to Princess Juliana and her children during the war.

hdm, if you have an ookpik, you don't even need to take the test.

Anselm

National flags could be compared to coporate brands - what do people think when they first see a flag on a backpack -

What is the first thought that would cross an American's mind if they saw a Union Jack in say NYC?

How would any stereotyping differ from other nations?

As a Canadian citizen I respect that our neighbors to the south feel proud to be American and I would hope that they in turn, respect that we are just as proud to be Canadian.

<<It's pretty self-centred of Americans who think that the only reason a Canadian might wear a maple leaf pin or have a flag on their backpack is so they won't be mistaken for Americans.

Get over yourselves. Sometimes people just want to be recognized for their own nationality, not as a reaction to yours. Sheesh!>>

I have absolutely no problem with people who proudly wear the maple leaf b/c they're proud of being Canadian and want to be identified as such. There's much to be proud of. However, I think the OP was talking about people who don the maple leaf in order to not be taken for Americans.

Anyone (whether Canadian or American) who *only* wears a maple leaf because s/he does not want to be identified as an American is someone I shake my head at.

But the fault would be with Americans who are posing as Canadians (and personally, I don't know anyone who does this -- I've only ever heard about it here). Canadians who carry the Canadian flag, for whatever reason they wish, are at least being honest about their citizenship. There seems to be a censure here for Canadians carrying their own flag.

<<What is the first thought that would cross an American's mind if they saw a Union Jack in say NYC?>>

You mean like those shorts the drummer from Def Leppard used to wear? *LOL

Frankly, I don't think many Americans would see a Union Jack and automatically think "Brit tourist" or conjure up a negative thought (even if the American in question knew what the Union Jack was!! *LOL). Americans wear Union Jacks, too -- my daughter's favorite beach shirt has a Union Jack on it.

As with Europeans, lots of Americans can identify a European tourist in other ways (shoes being a key one, eyeglasses, hairstyles, body language). Frankly, on the East Coast of the US, the only way you can tell a foreign tourist from an immigrant is that he's doing tourist activities. Either way, most Americans would treat a tourist the same, whether she's from Rotterdam or Houston.

<<But the fault would be with Americans who are posing as Canadians (and personally, I don't know anyone who does this -- I've only ever heard about it here). Canadians who carry the Canadian flag, for whatever reason they wish, are at least being honest about their citizenship. There seems to be a censure here for Canadians carrying their own flag.>>

For me, it's all about intent. I apply the same standard: IMO, absolutely no American should wear another country's emblem if he does so solely to deflect anti-Americanism. Likewise, if the sole purpose of a Candian's wearing his national emblem is to deflect "anti-Americanism", I think it's wrong.

IMO, patches should be worn to express pride, love, or admiration of a country (whether one's own or not), or to identify fellow countrymen. Wearing one to solely seek preferential treatment and to distance oneself from another nationality isn't right, IMO.

<IMO, patches should be worn to express pride, love, or admiration of a country (whether one's own or not), or to identify fellow countrymen. Wearing one to solely seek preferential treatment and to distance oneself from another nationality isn't right, IMO.>

I agree, Liam, that that's the best of all possible reasons. However, as I said above, at least they're telling the truth about their citizenship.

If you heard a Canadian responding to the question 'Are you American' by saying 'No, I'm Canadian', would your assumption be that they were denying Americanism? Why would a visual statement cause you to believe that more than a verbal statement?

Wow Liam that seems like an awful lot of thought to go through before you pin on a patch.
A lot of us wear the pins with the crossed American/Canadian flags. What does that mean?
(Sounds as complicated as those circle pins that we swore meant whether the girl was a virgin or not depending on which side it was worn. Remember?)

hdm,

I think there's differences in conversational nuances in the same way we would wear our badges.

We can correct such question in a way that is a matter or fact or even proudly as a native of that country.

Or we can respond to the question in a huffy manner as in, how dare you think I'm American?! - it's the same way that the badge or pin is reflected by the individual owner - some may use it to be proud of their country; and some may use it to differentiate themselves from the Americans.

I don't wear emblems of any kind, traveling or otherwise. I even hate it when they put brand names on clothes or shoes.

nbujic -
The only "relation" of the Union Jack to the Canadian flag pertained to my understanding that the French supposedly are not great fans of the English so if someone from the United States was planning on pretending to be from another country by the use of a flag, they might not want to wear the union jack either.

I love to buy flag badges from everywhere I go, and I sew (or glue) them on my backpack. If the intent to put a flag, any flag, on a backpack is to confuse, I'm sure I'm doing a great job!

o,k,
thanks.
I have never carried a backpack, so no place to stick a flag of any country!

<<Wow Liam that seems like an awful lot of thought to go through before you pin on a patch.
A lot of us wear the pins with the crossed American/Canadian flags. What does that mean?
(Sounds as complicated as those circle pins that we swore meant whether the girl was a virgin or not depending on which side it was worn. Remember?)>>

*LOL... yes, it is a bit to think of before donning a patch, I'll admit. For me what it comes down to is the motivation for wearing the patch. Pride, affinity = OK. Distancing, "don't blame me, I'm Canadian" = I can do without. The truth is, I'm too busy during my travels to really engage anyone on the issue, so chances are pretty good that you'll escape unscathed should you cross my path. *LOL

Circle pins? I don't think I know what that's all about. Based on my orientation, I'd be checking out the brooch and not trying to figure out if a woman is a virgin. ;^)

girls wear pins to show WHAT???

wow you learn something new every day here on Fodor's!

"I have never carried a backpack, so no place to stick a flag of any country!"

Total lack of imagination.

This whole thing is a bit of a joke. To an outsider there's very little difference between the US and Canada, or between Americans and Canadians, so who cares? After a few days in Canada (after crossing from the USA) I remember saying to my wife "I have very little sense that we're in a different country." Her response was "I have NO sense that I'm in a different country, apart from the metric measurements." I did however notice that there were more American cars on the roads in Canada than on the Left Coast of the USA. In general there seems much less cultural difference between California and BC, for example, than between California and Louisiana.

Stylistically, wearing national symbols is about on par with wearing socks with sandals.

Bush is no more popular in Australia than in Europe, but I've never heard an American complain that they weren't well treated here.

What a load of codswallop.

I am Canadian and whenever I see the little flag on a backpack or bag while travelling in Europe I always feel contempt. I mean really...is it a security blanket? Are they just "skimming the surface" kind of travelers thinking that by identifying themselves to the outside world, they will be treated better? With more "respect" by virtue of being "Canadian"? How naive. I can't help but think they are novice travellers with little interest in having genuine communication with the natives of the country they are visiting. It's SO self centred and un-worldly.

Neil_Oz - I am Canadian and my husband is Australian. The first time I went to Oz, I said the same thing to him after a few hours on the road: I have very little sense that I'm in a different country to Canada. Sure, the landscape is a little different, different trees, different earth but the cities felt the same and so did the people. I wondered if the colonies have a flat-pack factory somewhere? My husband laughs at me because I have this National Geographic view of Australia and I want every Australian bloke to be the Man from Snowy River. The reality was far different and I couldn't get over it. To be honest, I don't think I ever will.

On the subject of Canadian flags on backpacks, I'm with Hunnibun. I see it all the time on the tube in London (where I live) and I just feel embarrassment for them. I really don't think the average waitress or shopkeeper in Europe really cares where you're from - they're too busy living their own lives and trying to make money. And if they judge you to be American, who cares too? Does it actually mean anything anymore? For me, when I see the flag on the backpack, the message I receive is "I'm insecure and I want you to like me". Such a bore.

For some people -- probably many people -- nationality is a major element of their sense of personal identity. They can get a bit pissed off at being taken for something else. It seems to me that this happens to Canadians more than many other national groups. So some of them might want to give an upfront message, the essence of which is "I am not an American".

I don't have an acute ear, but sometimes I recognise a Canadian by accent, and some other times I know at least that a person is not necessarily US American, and use the term "North American". Many Canadians are highly appreciative of such recognition.

In continental Europe, I am often taken as English. It doesn't bother me at all, but I generally clarify that I am Irish. I do this, not because of any worry about my own sense of identity, but because it is often an advantage to be Irish. Our image is better than we deserve.

But I would never wear a flag or emblem.

Neil:

It's not unique to Canadians. There seem to be an awful lot of Enzedders around who either stick their flag on their backpacks (usually with an 'NZ' next to it, since they know no-one can tell the difference) or inverted 'NZ' plates on the backs of their campervans.

Just as there's a remarkable number of people with St Andrews crosses on their bags or "Ecosse" or "SCO" plates on the back of British registered cars.

All because they think they'll be taken for something else. As endless says: as if anyone cared.

"To an outsider there's very little difference between the US and Canada, or between Americans and Canadians, so who cares?"

I can certainly see how it might seem that way to a visitor. The differences, however, are significant, notwithstanding the common language, availability of consumer goods, and some shared interests. Look no further than the structure of government, the distribution of power between levels of government, fiscal policy, social policy, health policy, and gun control, not to mention that one of the countries has two official languages. The list is almost endless.

I'm not saying that one is right and the other is wrong, nor that one is better than the other. There are reasons for the differences, and for many, the differences outnumber the similarities.

Anselm

"Stylistically, wearing national symbols is about on par with wearing socks with sandals."

An Australian I know used to refer to recently arrived immigrants from Britain as "the socks-and-sandals brigade." Do the Poms still emigrate to Oz?

Amen, AnselmAdorne!To an "outsider" , there is very little difference between French and Belgians, Australians and New Zealanders, the Scots and the Irish....need I go on? Of course, there SHOULD be no difference in our openess and acceptance of cultures other than our own. But "vive la difference!" After all, if we were all the same, why on earth we would bother ever to leave our home countries?

....
" I felt tothave very little sense that I'm in a different country to Canada....
Interesting. Before going to Australia I was thinking the same, but once in Oz, to me, it felt like a totally different world.
In Europe, we are always assumed to be American ( because my is very tall or because he likes to wear shorts ??)
So what .

sorry, should by my husband

>..the term "North American". Many Canadians are highly appreciative of such recognition.<

Canadians don't wish to be recognized as a separate country?

I agree with Anselm's distinction and wish to add that Canadians have always been recognized as Peace Keepers wherever they go in the world, because that has been their role in international conflicts. The similarities between Canada and the US are just surficial. At a deeper level, the differences are signficant. The US looks a lot like Canada to me too, when we travel there, but that doesn't mean there aren't differences.

Personally, I don't have a flag emblem on anything but I do (if I remember to get them) try to carry a handful of tiny Canadian flag pins to give to kids. I'm sure they don't care about the fact that they're Canadian flags -- you know kids, they like to collect stuff like that.

I have no problem with anyone wearing the flag of their country, if they choose to do it. I don't take it as an insult to my country and it gives one a nice opening for conversations with strangers.

Oh dear. Once again, let me say that I know of no (zero, nada, zip, nil) Canadians who describe themselves as North American. We describe ourselves as Canadian. That's the nationality we wish to be know by. And to be able to recognize a Canadian by their accent seems unlikely. It's a big country and extremely multicultural, so there are about a billion accents, as there are in the US.

Do you think Americans describe themselves as North American? I don't think so. I think they proudly say American when asked their citizenship. Why would Canadians want to do less?

I always get the feeling that Americans think that Canadians are just dying to be Americans. That we're 'wannabee Yanks'. Well, um, no. Thanks anyway. We like visiting but most Canadians I know prefer their own citizenship and the benefits that come with it.

My brother had a French Canadian girlfriend for 12 years. Her mother spoke NO English, her father's was halting (this was about 1985). Lots of polite smiling and heaps of translation when my parents invited them over for dinner. To me, Canada has always been very distinct from the United States because of this very reason - a completely different cultural and linguistic experience living in the oldest settled part of North America amongst the Quebecois.

<<...wish to add that Canadians have always been recognized as Peace Keepers wherever they go in the world, because that has been their role in international conflicts. >>

Here we go again about Canada's "peacekeeping tradition" and its role in international conflicts. Hogwash!

If you want to know about Canada's role in international conflicts go to the cemeteries in France, Holland, Belgium, Italy, Korea, and other places around the world where you will find the graves of the tens of thousands of Canadians who died in the service of their country. Read the thousands of names on the Menin Gate in Ypres and on the Vimy Memorial in France of Canadian soldiers with no known graves. Better still, look at any Canadian newspaper today and see photos of the cortege of hearses bringing back the bodies of six Canadian soldiers who died this week in Afghanistan in the war against the Taliban.

"Canada's peacekeeping tradition" is used by many, politicians included, to create the impression that Canada is a gentle, neutral, non-warlike society, striving to bring peace to the world. Nonsense. Peacekeeping was never the rationale for the Canadian Armed Forces as some would believe, but simply a useful task at times. The myth of Canada's peacekeeping tradition was partly fuelled by politicians wanting to eviscerate the armed forces and partly by those wishing to distinguish themselves from the nasty Americans.

I have worn the blue beret on United Nations service during my 32 years service, but I never considered myself a "peacekeeper". I was a soldier and proud to be one.

Maybe SOME Americans, hdm. Put me down as one USA-ian who understands that Canada is a separate country and realizes that you aren't just dying to join us. I'm sure there are a lot of us who think like this, we're just not as much fun for sound bites.

Robs, as for the
"Total lack of imagination."

Don't we have enough flag waiving around the world these days as it is?

<<And to be able to recognize a Canadian by their accent seems unlikely.>>

Well I can, sometimes.

hdm, I think you misunderstand what I said.

First, I made it clear that *sometimes* I recognise a Canadian by accent, so to say that there are many Canadian accents proves or disproves nothing.

Second, I have observed that many Canadians are not pleased if one presumes they are American. When in doubt about a person's nationality, I use North America or North American pending clarification. Once I know the nationality, I use the more recognised words: American or Canadian, as appropriate.

And I stand by what I said, because I know what my experience is: Canadians have indicated approval or pleasure when I have avoided lumping them in with Americans. None has ever reacted negatively.

But almost all the Canadians I have met have been pleasant and polite. Perhaps they are not a representative sample.

I'm sure no Canadian ever calls themselves 'North American'

But, just as many of us have discovered it's wisest to refer to some people as Australasian because you can never be sure which one they are and you always piss themn off if you guess wrong, there are contexts where many Europeans (and Hell,if we're prepared to accept such generic phrases for ourselves occasionally, the damn colonials can bloody well put up with it too) find it causes less offence to call someone talking about a moose in the hoose North American. There are, after all, natives of Washington State who are practically indistinguishable from British Colombiand.

Now if someone can think of a generic phrase for white people from Zimbabwe and South Africa, because that's another one you always guess wrong from the accent...

I'm a lot better at distinguishing Kiwis (you gotta drop the vowel from the word) from Aussies than I am with Canadians and Americans. Having said that, I thought the movie 'Fargo' was the most Canadian movie I had ever seen.

laverendrye,
I'm not disputing what you've said. I wish it were true that Canadians were ONLY needed in peace-keeping roles around the world (and even better, not even that). What I meant was that to people of a certain age around the world, Canadians are known as Peace Keepers and that's how they're welcomed. Canadians do not have a reputation for being aggressors.

And yes, of course I can recognize many American accents too. But there are tons of Americans I would just assume are Canadians, if I were sitting next to them at a restaurant.

I just don't understand this 'oot and aboot' thing. Never have. That sounds Scottish to me. To me it sounds like we're saying 'owt and abowt'.

flanneruk wrote: "Now if someone can think of a generic phrase for white people from Zimbabwe and South Africa, because that's another one you always guess wrong from the accent..."

Call them Africans. It's very fair, because it pisses them off equally.

I think people are reading too much into flags on backpacks etc. Although I'm not Canadian (I'm Australian), I lived there for 17 years and my brothers have Canadian families.

It is an icebreaker, if you have an emblem displayed, it becomes an way of starting a conversation - standing in a queue, sitting on the tube, staying in a hostel. It's also saves having to explain that you aren't from the US.

I quite often will speak to someone because they have the Canadian flag on their bags as I have an affinity, the same way I'll talk to someone from NZ.

When I lived in Canada in the '70s, the majority of people thought I was English, perhaps I should have worn an Australian flag but then they probably wouldn't have recognised it - much less so in the States where, at that time, many educated people asked how come I spoke English so well - they thought Australia and Austria were the same place. They also had no idea that Australia had conscripted troops in Vietnam but that is another story.

I am Canadian, like the beer commercial. I travel with a Canadian flag on my luggage, it helps when locating my suitcase at airports. The flag is a red Maple Leaf on white in the center with two red bars on either side. Not the Union Jack, although some provincial flags have the UJ incorporated in their flags. I agree with Sarvowinner the Canadian flag/patch/button I find is an icebreaker particularly when traveling and you meet up with someone from New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, England, etc. We are a commonwealth of nations there's a nice connection between us.

My daughter who backpacked across Europe alone last summer had a Canadian flag on her backpack and I just checked with her and she assures me that no one vomited when they saw it as one poster said would happen. She said that while waiting in a train station for some Irish friends she met along the way to arrive that the area was sketchy and she was uncomfortable with the pan handlers when two Aussies approached her and said "hey Canada mind if we sit with you". She said she was never happier to have that flag on her bag.

Last Fall in New Orleans our conference gave out Canadian Flag beads, they were nice. All the States had beads represented as well. The most coveted were the Canadian beads, I was offered $50 for mine plus California, Florida and New Jersey beads. I still have my beads.

I think its all about being proud about the country you come from or have a connection like Americans of Italian descent - they say they are Italian, same with those of Irish descent.

Great post by the way, I think this holds the record for how many times "Canada" has been used on this board.

We are the commonwealth of nations there's a nice.....'
This is such a colonial view
of the world !
How do you feel about people from Ghana or Pakistan?
And why Ireland?

"I love to buy flag badges..."


Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!

>> The flag is a red Maple Leaf on white in the center with two red bars on either side. <<


Breaking news !

I'm someone who posted when this thread was in its infancy - weren't we all then!

My husband and I wear small Canadian lapel pins on our jackets - we are far too old and creaky to be able to carry around backpacks. We do it just for us, because while we are away from home, it makes us feel good. I'm amused that wearing a Canadian flag has been debated as a fashion faux pas, as anti-American or just plain nerdy. Each to their own.

However, in our recent trip to England and Italy, there were at least a dozen times when someone engaged us in conversation because they saw the flags. They either had relatives in Canada, had worked in Canada, had a question about 'French' vs. 'English' Canada, etc. At least half of the time, after chatting to someone, we were allowed little freebies - like taking a picture in a room where you weren't suppose to, being given a brochure free, etc., but my favourite was being allowed to park outside the theatre in Stratford, almost in front of the door, for free, while we went to an evening performance. (The fellow staffing the booth had worked in Canada and we'd treated him well.)

Obviously, my husband and I didn't wear the lapel pins to get free stuff -if we'd known that our countrymen and women were held in such high esteem - we might have gone for the giant-size decals on the backs of our coats!

As to a number of the posters' viewpoints that in Europe no one can tell Canadians from Americans, perhaps that's true. We obviously, unintentionally, circumvented that problem.

"As to a number of the posters' viewpoints that in Europe no one can tell Canadians from Americans, perhaps that's true."

Except for that "eh" thing.

Nbujic - I always get Lesotho and Ireland mixed up, you are right Ireland left the Commonwealth in 1949 same time as Newfoundland joined Canada. Causes great confusion in our colonial minds, Ireland being so close and all.

Superheterodyne - again some confusion the Tim Horton's coffee mug is often thought of as our national symbol versus the maple leaf. Then again many people have forgotten that Tim Horton was a hockey player and not a coffee shop.

Rickmav - it sometimes feels as though we are treated well being Canadian just because where we come from but I think if you treat people courteously in another country they'll treat you with respect. And, if being Canadian helps so be it. We got 5 euros off each night of our stay in Italy because the owners father worked in Whitehorse. Having Canadian passport works as good as a flag on a backpack.

Hi Denise

Re: your last comment - unfortunately you can't wear your passport on your lapel or bags.

Nbjuic

"This is such a colonial view
of the world !
How do you feel about people from Ghana or Pakistan?"

As an Australian, I have had conversations with Pakistani taxi drivers in NYC about cricket. I feel fine about people from Ghana - your point is????

My, some people have very thin skins - it looks like there is some flag envy happening here.

My point was that people from Pakistan and Ghana are ALSO part of the Commonwealth not just Canadians, Australians, NZ, English....as the poster suggested ( she/he also included Ireland LOL)
You , as an Australian should know that!
As for "flag envy"....
no need - my flag is Canadian!

Sorry Nbjuic

I thought you were referring to the Commonwealth as being Colonial. It is a bit of an anachronism, but has value in keeping up relationships between some very different cultures.

I think we all feel so close to Ireland as the Irish played such a part in building our countries. I just ignored that part of the post.

All I can say is no one has ever been rude to me because I am from the US,and I have been to 30 or so countries. The two places where they were by far the friendliest when they found out where I was from were Syria the USSR. (Saying the USSR gives a hint of age) The hospitality and friendliness in those two countries was off the chart.

I suppose my post was a little mischievous. Of course I'm aware that Canada has a more liberal political position than the US - or perhaps that should be "parts of the US". I remember a joke map being sent around which showed the "blue" states merged with Canada to produce the United States of Canada, and perhaps that did reflect some reality.

And yes, Canada and Australia (and NZ) have a great deal in common, including our political institutions and inclinations. And along with the English we're also (flags on backpacks aside) uncomfortable with the more strident patriotic displays that most Americans find congenial.

New Zealanders, always feeling overshadowed by Australia, are sensitive about their distinct identity, and I guess in micro this reflects the USA-Canada relationship. Perhaps it's the reason that the Kiwi "fush and chups" vowel shift has become so pronounced over the last 20 years.

BTW, I've never understood why Americans think that Canadians say "oot and aboot". To my ear it's clearly "oat and aboat".

As for Scots displaying similar tendencies vis a vis England - I believe that Canada and New Zealand have stronger Scots roots than, say, the US and Australia. Maybe we can just blame Scottish bloody-mindedness for the whole problem.

Um, guys? I don't mean to highjack your post, but could I get the answers to the "Canadian quiz" questions?
I wouldn't ask but we are planning a Canadian party for my retiring boss (he's Canadian, we're American), and these would make a great ice breaker game.

Thanks!

Sorry Skedaddle we just plain old forgot to answer the questions. What a bunch of Canadian flag wearing, Canadian flag waving, Canadian patch loving crazy Canuks we are.

How do Canadians pronounce the letter "Z"?
It's Zed not Zee.

What is a bush party?
Not sure about that one, that might be a Prarie answer.

A toonie? A two dollar coin, the Loonie is the one dollar coin.

A riding?
Where your member of Parliment hails from, his jurisdiction or the area the people he represents are from (tho he may not be from there himself originally).

Pogey? Employment Insurance checks(some call it Unemployment Insurance) or Social Security in the USA.

How about allophone? Not Anglo, nor Franco speakers, not sure if they speak either English or French. Someone else may have to answer that one - anyone from Quebec on the board.

Back bacon? That lovely smokey circle of hamy bacon that graces an eggs benedict.

Click, as in a measure of speed or distance? We say clipping along on the east coast, slightly over the speed limit without getting caught by the Constabulary.

Can you use the word dépanneur in a sentence? Quebecers where are you.

What do we mean when we refer to someone as "pure laine"? Hmmm. Does it relate to the question about a bush party, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, where are you guys?

And the toughest one of all, what great Canadian event happened on September 28, 1972?
Paul Henderson scores the winning goal to beat the Russians. It was great.

If you get that one right, what Canadian band wrote about it in one of their songs?
Lighthouse, BTO, Guess Who, Paul Anka, I just don't know, nor the name of the song.

Sorry this is the best I can do - maybe one of our Commonwealth friends can help out. Some know more about Canada than we do.

pure laine is 'pure wool' literally -- that is, unmixed. I believe it refers to Quebeckers or French Canadians with no mixed English ancestry

please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hmmm, well, I posed some of the quiz, so I should respond, eh?

How do Canadians pronounce the letter "Z"?

Zed

What is a bush party?

It’s a tailgate party held in the bush rather than the parking lot of a sports stadium. If you live in Bathurst, New Brunswick, you’ve been to one at some point in your life.

A toonie?

A two-dollar coin

A riding?

An electoral district

Pogey?

Unemployment insurance

How about allophone?

Someone whose mother tongue is neither English nor French; it's a word you will see in Quebec or in reports about Quebec.

Click, as in a measure of speed or distance?

A kilometre, but we also use it a measure of speed: “I was driving at about 110 clicks.”

Can you use the word dépanneur in a sentence?

A dépanneur is a corner store.

What do we mean when we refer to someone as "pure laine"?

A true-blue Quebecer (that is, not an allophone); only French ancestry.

And the toughest one of all, what great Canadian event happened on September 28, 1972? If you get that one right, what Canadian band wrote about it in one of their songs?

That was the day Paul Henderson scored the winning goal in the Canada-Soviet Union hockey tournament. The entire nation was delirious with joy. The band that wrote about it was The Tragically Hip.

And now on to laverendrye’s questions:

What's a double-double?

This is how you order a cup of Tim Horton’s coffee with two creams and two sugars. (Tim Horton was a hockey player, by the way.)

What's a two-four blue?

This is what you take to a bush party: a 24-bottle case of Labatt’s Blue.

Can you competently use all eight categories of the interrogative "Eh?"

I hope laverendrye steps in here. I do recollect watching a TV program years ago that carefully categorized all the subtleties of the Canadian “eh”, and for a while I could actually remember them. It’s not as simple as where they are used; inflection is critical.

Can you distinguish a loonie from a toonie? Without looking?

A loonie (a one-dollar coin) is brass; a toonie (a two-dollar coin) is silver with a brass centre. The former has 11 sides; the latter is perfectly round. Handy to know when you have both in your pocket.

Who is Stompin' Tom and what is his connection with hockey?

Stompin’ Tom Connors is a Canadian folk singer, well known for such insightful songs as Bud the Spud and Sudbury Saturday Night. Canadian hockey fans (that would be about 90 per cent of the population) know him as the author of The Hockey Song.

Who has more hair--Lloyd Robertson or Peter Mansbridge? For a bonus, name two of Peter's wives.

Lloyd has hair. Peter doesn’t. And, thanks to laverenrye, two of his three wives were Wendy Mesley and Cynthia Dale.

Anselm

Anselm
my ookpik and I bow to your fabulous knowledge of Canuckology!

I've never had any problems in my European travels. I do recall an odd occurrence on a trip to Lausanne near the time of the last presidential election. We were touring the cathedral and in walks a woman with a large John Kerry button displayed prominently on her handbag. I think it's much better to just be polite and attempt to blend into the woodwork. Seems rather self-important to assume anyone is going to give a darn where you're from or what your political leanings are.

The eight categories of "Eh" were classified in a famous paper by the distinguished Canadian lexicographer Dr. Walter Avis entitled "So 'eh' is Canadian, eh?". I can't put my hands on that paper at the moment, so rather than my listing them here, those who are interested can look at one of these academic studies. It appears that there are now considered to be 10 diferent categories.

http://tinyurl.com/22f5ao

http://tinyurl.com/2dgtak

I decided that flags from Ireland, Norway, Finland, and Scotland were what I should use.
That way, people can take their choice.
Usually they think I am American with 4 flags pasted on his backpack.

In France, people start speaking English to my wife before she opens her mouth other than to say Bon jour.

Intersting article on this topic:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070709/ap_on_re_eu/polite_paris_1

I saw that article, marrsbar. Sometimes acknowledging you have a problem is the first step to solving it. But in this case I wonder if this effort to fix things isn't just perpetuating the stereotype by giving even more attention to the issue. It's been years since I've been to Paris, but I had no problems there and from these forums it seems most come away with a positive experience (or at least one that is better than the stereotypes lead you to expect).

Didn't New York attempt a similar program with their cabbies a while back? What were the results of that?

Thanks so much for the answers to all the Canadian questions! One more thing - really, what is an ookpik?

Ookpik is Inuit for snowy owl. It's famous in Canada because it was chosen as the mascot for Expo '67.

I also have a memory of Dennis Lee (of Aligator Pie fame) writing something about it.

Anselm

"An Ookpik is nothing but hair,
If you shave him, he isn't there"

- Dennis Lee

Did anyone ever think that Canadians were flags on their backpacks, because they want other Canadian backpackers to recognize them? Many backpackers stay in hostels, so it is a way to communicate with other backpackers, where you are from.

I am a proud Canadian and I do wear pin to show it.

Oops! "Canadians were flags" in my previous post, should read, "Canadiana wear flags"

Wow, I never realized that we Canadians could raise such levels of passion! Personally I love seeing patches on people's bags - it's a great way to start a conversation. But then again, I like talking to people from other places and getting to know about them.

Anyway, to answer the original thread topic from way back when, I have met numerous American's posing as Canadians while in Europe. I always thought it was kind of silly.

This is completely ridiculous and, I'm sorry to say it this harshly, stupid. If you're afraid and embarassed, stay home. Not meant as an insult to our friends to the North. Just stupid. Actually so stupid, if you really consider this I encourage you to do it because you embarass real American so much by doing it.

Let the panty waisted critics chime in now.

I travel a lot. I am Canadian. I have seen many Canadian flags and stickers on backpacks and luggage and usually have little difficulty in recognizing an American neighbour trying to travel incognito. To a Canadian, the ruse is obvious and I suspect it may be so to Europeans as well.

I don't know about acanadian flag, or any other, but a month or so before the last US election, I was in Paris and happened to have a John Kerry button pinned to my shoulder bag; it earned me a lot of smiles, cheers, and interesting conversations.
Jess

"I don't know about acanadian flag, or any other, but a month or so before the last US election, I was in Paris and happened to have a John Kerry button pinned to my shoulder bag; it earned me a lot of smiles, cheers, and interesting conversations.
Jess"

Did they later, like Kerry, change their tune colmpletely!

The last time I was in Europe (2005), people kept asking if I was Canadian. I found out it was because Canadians were getting angry when people asked if they were American. Thanks, neighbors.

I don't wear any flags when I travel, and I'm happy to tell people that I'm American when they ask. Yes, I usually add that I'm a Democrat, and then they smile and say, "yes, we don't like your president," and then we're all good friends.

I think as long as you're polite and not named George Bush, it doesn't really matter to Europeans if you're American.

"I found out it was because Canadians were getting angry when people asked if they were American. Thanks, neighbors."

How did you find that out ? Some kind of
European survey on what Canadians say when mistaken for Americans?
We have been asked if we were from the States from Croatia to New Zealand - so what.

I found that silly as well, danon. That exactly typifies what I've been talking about on this forum -- that if you're not actually American, you must be at one extreme or the other. You either secretly want to be American or you get angry if you're mistaken for American.

Could it be that when this people were asked if they were American, they said no, I'm Canadian? Or did they actually fly into a rage and beat the inquirer senseless with their ookpik?

If Canadians don't put the Canadian flag on their backpacks because people will then assume they are Americans pretending to be Canadian, what do they put on their packs to show people that they are Canadian?

P.S.


"what do they put on their packs..."

as if the most of us carry backpacks anyway.

slangevar wrote: "I think as long as you're polite and not named George Bush, it doesn't really matter to Europeans if you're American."

Not so. I can think of a few other names that it is better not to have.

danon & hdm - It was certainly nothing that violent. After my sister and I were asked if we were Canadian 3 times (which we'd never been asked on previous trips), we started asking people why they picked Canadian first.

Everyone we asked told us it was because Canadians seemed insulted to be mistaken for Americans, whereas Americans seemed pleased by the mistake.

I grew up near Canada, so I'm a big fan of the country. In fact, many an American has mistaken my home state for a province in Canada. So we certainly were not insulted... just curious about the question.

Padraig - "Dick Cheney" perhaps?

We've been asked a million times if we're American -- as soon as they hear us speak English without an English accent. We say no, we're Canadian. I can't imagine why anyone would get angry or upset about the question. That is, unless they felt there was something dodgy about being a Yank! And in that case, we'll shove over and make room for them up here!

Looks like I shouldn't bring my Canadian bag with me to Ireland. I bought it in Nelson, B. C., because it's sturdy and fairly dark, being scarlet--so that it doesn't soil easily--and it has a big white maple leaf on one side.

If I did bring it, I assure everyone that I wouldn't be trying to pass as any other nationality but my own.

By the way, I do have a good ear for Canadian accents. It's not just oot and aboot and eh. There are other vowels that are giveaways.

To my (Australian) ear it's "oat", not "oot".

At one stage I thought about stitching a New Zealand flag to my luggage. I decided against it because (a) nobody else knows we have troops in Iraq, and (b) only an Australian or New Zealander (and not all of them) can tell the difference between the two flags anyway.

hdm - depending on what happens in our upcoming election, I may take you up on that offer!

There some irony to this thread as Canadians are not typically known as "flag wavers". We have a reputation for being reserved in our enthusiasm for our country.
Anyway - a real Canadian would be wearing a Leafs jersey.
Peg - sounds like a Roots bag?

"The last time I was in Europe (2005), people kept asking if I was Canadian. I found out it was because Canadians were getting angry when people asked if they were American. Thanks, neighbors. "

Really - as someone else asked - did you do a scientific survey?
I have been mistaken for an American many times - I just laugh and correct people. The last time (near London in a pub) an American couple sitting next to us actually corrected the server when he assumed we were American. (The American couple recognized out accents as Canadian immediately and the five of us had a good laugh.)

Nothing scientific semiramis... see my answer to the other person's question above.

I guess maybe that's the difference... if I was mistaken for Canadian and someone American nearby thought I had an American accent, I doubt they would ever correct the person asking. More likely they would wait to hear my answer and then quietly say they were American, too.

Can't we just be "North American?"

But I don't want to be North American. I want to be Canadian.

And therein lies the proof of what all those Europeans told my sister and me.

I've read some interesting articles in the last couple of years about the not-so-subtle anti-American vein running through Canada. \

In response, there's a growing frustration over that sentiment in educated American political circles. Some feel that Canada has benefitted from the same military that you frequently criticize. Canada gets to play the good guy while America is forced to be the world's police.

Granted, I'm no fan of our government, but it would be nice if Canada could appreciate us as much as we appreciate them.

And why is it considered anti-Americanism to want to be Canadian?

It's not necessarily... I just find it interesting that a Canadian would rather be called a 'Canadian' than a 'North American,' whereas many Americans (at least my friends) would gladly assume the title of 'North American.'

As evidenced by the previous poster's story, Canadians seem to be more sensitive to being called Americans than vice versa.

That, coupled with the articles that are being printed in the liberal press down in America about Canada's anti-American feeling, resulted in the posting.

Hullo? Excuse me? First of all, you didn't say American, you said North American.

Second of all, I AM Canadian (hey, I sound like the guy in the beer ad) -- I'm not denying or disrespecting anything.

Third, did I sound angry? So no wonder these people think Canadians sound angry -- if you just say you're Canadian in a normal tone of voice, they interpret it as anger.

Actually, your post proves MY point. Unless we all want to BE American, we must actually HATE Americans. That's some ego thing you guys have going on.

I'm considering revoking my invitation.

AHA!!!!! You're JORR!!!! Jorr is the only person on all of Fodor's that knows people who identify themselves as North American instead of their nationality.

AHA!!!!!!!

Exactly... I said, "Why can't we all be North American?" And while many Americans would say "sure" (and many of us actually wanted to be part of the 'United States of Canada' after the last election), you said you didn't want to be part of us... you wanted to be Canadian.

I'm sure I'm being overly sensitive, but please keep in mind that it is very hard to be an American tourist right now. Everyone hates our country, and I understand why (I was one of the many who didn't vote for what's happening)... but the whole anti-American sentiment in Canada is just too much. And please don't deny it... I've seen the articles in your own press.

LOL... who is JORR? I promise I'm not. Is it a horrible thing to be a JORR-ite? I'll have to do a search on him/her.

Well, "press" aren't necessarily representative of the feelings of the people. Most Canadians are very much inclined to appreciate individual Americans on just about every level. But there are differences and "vive la difference!".

I personally don't know of any anti-American sentiment in Canada. Some of my best friends, etc...

I'm thrilled to death if your friends want to call themselves North Americans, or Semi-Canadians, or whatever the heck they want. But that says something about their feelings about being American, not mine about being Canadian. Would you have us all call ourselves Citizens of the World instead of our nationalities just so Americans aren't picked out of the crowd?

...and if I'm travelling and someone asks me if I'm Irish and I say no, I'm Canadian, does that somehow indicate and anti-Irish sentiment on my part?

And thank you LJ.

Absolutely... I can't wait for the day when we learn to respect and appreciate the cultural differences that make us all unique while still embracing everyone on this planet as equally human.

Unfortunately, I think that day might be scheduled for the same one that a certain place beneath us freezes over.

slangevar, I second what LJ said. And please don't interpret anti-America-ism (against the country of America, which is, indeed, a theme in a lot of Canadian media) with being the same as anti-American-ism (against the American people). After all, there's plenty of anti-America-ism in the American press too!

But back to the topic at hand, although I am not by any means a "flag waver," I will likely leave my Canadian flag stiched on my knapsack when I travel to Britain and France this fall. For two reasons: 1. it's covering a Nissan logo (I detest being made to adverstise for free for corporations), and 2. in the past it has served me well as a conversation-starter with locals ("Oh, you're from Canada? Whereabouts? We went to such-and-such for our holidays last year." etc.).

Artemis_Vancouver (and LJ)- I absolutely appreciate what you just said. Our press (as well as all of my friends and me) are probably more down on America than anyone. Maybe that's maybe why I'm so sensitive to other people saying negative things about us.

It's a bit like repenting for mistakes you've made, only to have a bunch of neighbors come up to you and tell you that you've made a load of mistakes.

I hope my sensitivity doesn't come across as anti-Canadian. My sister and I almost were Canadians. Instead we grew up near the border and felt like cousins of yours.

Maybe that's why it's harder for me to hear Canadians quickly correcting people when they're mistaken for Americans. It's like we're the black sheep of our continent who went out and hooked up with a drug-addicted biker and got pregnant. ("American? Oooh no - I'm not American. Did you hear what they did?!")

I've never known a person from Vancouver admit to anything other than being from Vancouver.
Now a person from Toronto (centre of Canada)...LOL
There is more animosity for different regions than different countries.

In all fairness, I think the OP was referring to Americans who sewed Canadian patches on their things to avoid being identified as Americans. Canadians can still keep their patches (can't they?).

Of course, robjame... I think it's great that you are able to have some pride in your nation's symbols. It's just sad that ours has become associated (by some/many) with conservative nationalism.

Per the OP's post, would I say I wasn't from the US? No, I've never done that. I always own up to it and then add that I'm a Democrat. It would just be nice to be able to feel the amount of pride I felt in my country during the 90s.

But please - maple leaf away. Like I said, I really enjoy meeting Canadians.

On accents: Having grown up in the one place in the contiguous US that is due north of Canada, I used to get asked all the time if I was Canadian when I moved to a more southern US city.

Growing up, we watched Hockey Night on CBC, then enjoyed the latenight movies/shows that were far racier than US TV at the time. Everyone had Canadian coins in their pockets and thought nothing of using them. We loved our Canadian neighbors and appreciated all things Canadian especially the lower drinking age and the great beer!!! I think that we felt closer to our Canadian friends and relatives than those loonies on the Coasts!!

I was asked frequently in Ireland if I was American or Canadian and once I said Canadian to see if there was a difference in the response. THere wasn't. Everyone was universally friendly and I talked to people who had never been to the States wearing Packers and Cubs shirts (and sometimes white sneakers). It all was fodder for great conversation!

As LJ said:
"And why is it considered anti-Americanism to want to be Canadian? "

And at the risk of being "anti-American" -
It amazes me that some Americans take the rather chauvanist (sp?) view (to me at least) that preferring to be identified as one's own nationality is somehow "anti-American". What next - the fact that most of us (Canadians) want to live in Canada makes us anti-American?

<<
Or did they actually fly into a rage and beat the inquirer senseless with their ookpik?
>>

It would be much more effective if one used his ulu.

I have been mistaken for an American many times in my travels and usually politely say, "No, I'm Canadian". What really gets my goat is when they reply "Oh really, are you from Toronto?"

I usually tell people I am a Canadian-American.

Nice answer, sansman! Maybe I should start telling people I'm a Californiacan.

Sometimes I listen to AFN Benelux on my way into work - American Forces Network.

During the breaks they have some community announcements regarding healthcare, child benefit, how to use a roundabout etc. Every so often they have this announcement about not wearing your nationality on your sleeve, don't wear US emblems, don't keep the same schedule every day etc.

I feel this might be a bit paranoid - particularly in the Benelux. But perhaps its stuff like this that forces people to masquerade as Canadians.

Hmmm, maybe I should start calling myself a feman, so as not to offend men.

I don't want us all to be the same. I like our differences. I wish we could just respect and appreciate each other BECAUSE of those differences, not in spite of them.

Lawchick - I think you are right on. I spend half my year in Florida and my American neighbours are openly proud of their country. They are far more expressive and demonstrative about their nationalism than we are in Canada (IMO).
It must be extremely difficult to repress that when travelling abroad. To see someone disguising themselves with another country's patch must hurt.

No flags, no patches, no logos, no initials, no pins on my hats! It's not about pride of country or lack thereof, it's about having a reasonable sense of fashion.

Sadly I have witnessed firsthand anti-Americanism while in Europe. I am a very proud Canadian but have many US friends and used to, in fact, fly to the US frequently for a job in the past.

Twice it happened in the UK. A B&B owner in St. Andrews assumed I was American and when I told her I was Canadian she immediately apologized profusely. I told her it was no big deal. Later on, she knocked on my door and presented me with a large book on Scotland she had bought for me to show that she was sorry for making such assumptions. She outright told me she preferred Canadians!

The second time happened in Italy. The person felt so bad about calling my husband and I American that he proceeded to buy us some wine at dinner!

The third time happened in July in England. We were asked whether we were American or Canadian and after responding the woman said she was relieved and told us she was glad and started on some political stint.

The reason we wear Canadian flags on our packs is, as someone mentioned above, a conversation starter. My husband wore a Canadian hockey jersey to the Open in Carnoustie to show support for Mike Weir. Nothing else. And Mike Weir acknowledged him! It was a very good conversation piece, I must say.

It should not happen but it certainly does. Who knows - it may happen the other way around, too!

So - I conclude that ALL Europeans hate ALL Americans and love ALL Canadians.

Thanks so much.

My favourite Canadians are Terrance and Philip.

I really have a soft spot for Ron.

I am more into real people like Doug and Bob or Dudley Do-Right

This problem could be easily solved by banning backpacks altogether. I don't really care whose flag is on them - I'm just sick of being belted in the face every time a backpack wearer steps backward or turns away from me.

I hear that. It's like being surrounded by sets of encyclopedias on swivels.

I'm a Vancouverite Canadian looking forward to the time I can call myself a
Cascadian.........

And most of us Seattleites would be glad to join you, llamalady. The only question is, how far south do we go? Surely not as far as SF; I wouldn't take Sonoma County either. Humboldt would be nice, for all that marijuana revenue. And east? Do we stop at the Cascades/Coast Range?

Decisions, decisions!

Let's get an Alaskan to make the boundaries! For sure (fer shure) the
Cascades are the eastern border.

And then there's the flag, and the anthem, and the money.......gee, we'd
better get right on this!