here's one of many sites...yes, I used Google knowing you were too busy

http://www.ezforex.com/

It is so unnecessary in the 21st century. It is a rip off (the only exception possibly being is that you're renting an apartment in some foreign placeand need cash on arrival) but) because no matter what they say, the currency exchange rate will be far poorer than anything you can get by following the advice I will give you.

1. Use your credit cards everywhere they are accepted for any purchase large or small. Make sure (assuming you are in the USA) a credit card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee such as Capital One. There are others too. Or at the very worst, a credit card that only passes along the 1% fee above the interbank rate imposed by mastercard and visa.

2. For those places where you need some cash, use the ATM's. But check with your bank as to what they charge for international ATM withdrawals. If they charge you a foreign currency transaction fee of #5 and/or charge you one red cent for an international withdrawal, tell them to go fly a kite. Go to the internet, open up an account with one of the many banks that offer free ATM or debit cards with no international fees and with no minimum balance required. Keep $1.01 in the account and before you leave transfer as much cash as you think you will need for the trip and withdraw from the ATM's on an ongoing basis. When you return from the trip, take out the cash to the cvhecking account you use for every day purposes and bring the balance on the travelling account back to $1.01.

Bingo...you can save quite a bit of money on the rip off fees imposed and don't listen to the nay sayers how nice it is to have cash upon arrival. All international airports feature many ATM's where you can stop off or even use while waiting for your baggage to come down the carousel.

The only sensible way to travel in the 21st century IMHO.

>>All international airports feature many ATM's where you can stop off or even use while waiting for your baggage to come down the carousel.<<

Do you mean that there is an ATM inside the secured custom's area. I've never seen one - but I must admit that I've never looked for one.

My wife & I vacation in Europe 2 months every year - normally 2-3 trips each year.

- In about '02 there was an ATM machine strike (the drivers who delivered the money were on strike), and most ATMs did not have any money - eventually no ATMs had money. The banks were therefore raided of cash also. We learned of this about 3 days prior to departure. Don't know what people would have done if they didn't know about the strike.

- On one occasion, our ATM card would not work upon arrival - a mixup on the notification that we always give our CC & ATM card issuers.

- I have no desire too look for an ATM at an airport when I arrive - I want to get going. About 1-2 times in the hundreds of times we've used ATMs for cash - the ATM didn't have any cash or would not work.

- Once my cousin arrived at the Nice airport, and didn't have any Francs. He didn't get any at the airport. He rented a car & got on the Autoroute - but when he hit the toll both, he didn't have any cash to pay the toll. This was before US Credit Cards were generally accepted for toll payments. This past June we encountered several toll roads which still didn't accept swipe cards - even adjacent to Autoroutes which did accept swipe cards.

- We always arrive in Europe with about 300Euros in my pocket. If I don't have Euros or I need cash from a non-Euro country, I go the the B of A main branch in San Francisco and get cash. Since I am a B of A customer with a B of A ATM card, the bank charges me a very reasonable exchange rate - perhaps 5% above what would be charged in Europe (my ATM/Debit card charges 3% for an international transaction fee). So that is only $6 I have to pay for the convenience of landing with cash in my pocket.

Actually, we always return with Euros/Pounds from our last trip which we will use on our next trip. We were in Eastern Europe in '10 where Euros/Pounds wouldn't work, so we had to get money at the B of A.

Stu Dudley

I wait until I get there and hit the ATM. I know (at least with BoA) you can order foreign currency at the bank. It takes them a few days to get it and the fees and exchange rate is not as good as the ATM method but the piece of mind might be worth it to you.

If you really need euros before you land you can simply exchange cash in your departure airport, which will have a bureau de change. The rate will be terrible - but certainly no worse (and probably a lot better) than you would get from some online service.

Once there use your credit cards for as much as possible and pull walking arond money frm ATMs. Yes, it is possible that there is a strike and no money in ATM - that might happen once every 5 years or so. And your card might not work - which is why you need two - as well as at least 2 credit cards.

But carrying a bunch of euros around with you is very risky - so if yuo MUST do this for some reason I strongly suggest you divide the money up amond several people and tht each person have some money inseveral differnt places (so if someone does lose a purse or wallet or mondysack or whatever - you aren;t stuck.)

By all means, use the ATM once you arrive at your destination. If you want a few Euro, have your local bank order them. I usually bring E50 or so home with me after a trip and use it for the next trip until I can get to the ATM. My bank, and likely yours, gives a good exchange rate and does not charge a fee to exchange a few dollars.

My opinion is that if in the rare occasion that none of the ATMs at the airport works, there is always a currency exchange booth (travelex for example) in the arrivals hall where you can exchange some money. Their exchange rate is probably no worse than what you'd get if you do the exchange at home in the US. I usually bring with me USD 100-200 for emergency.

If the ATMs work, then there's no need to exchange any money!

Even in the event of needing a significant sum on arrival for apt payment, I don't have trouble obtaining the money from the ATM. The other day I just called my bank to alert them that my husband will be traveling, and he'll be using our joint acct ATM card abroad. Because he needs 550 euro for the apt payment, I asked the bank to raise the withdrawal limit to $1000/day.

I also always have 2 ATM cards with me from 2 separate accounts, so in case one got "eaten," I can still use the other one.

I agree with yk, the exchange bureau is a perfectly reasonable backup as the odds are you won't have to use it, anyway. And if you do, it may be slightly more expensive than getting it from your bank at home, but not much, within the range of emergency expenses. Besides, you wouldn't need much anyway at the airport, so even though it may be a 10-12 pct markup at the airport (and your bank may charge around 7 pct), that's only a few euro difference if you get 100 euro.

Hey everyone.

Where in the post did the OP say he/she was arriving at an airport???? How about arriving by cruise ship, train, car, tour bus.

The OP specifically asked that he/she didn't want any lectures about not needing to purchase money in the US. He/she is traveling to the Czech Republic - so even if he/she "starts" at a Euro country airport and gets Euros there, he/she may need Czech money as soon as he/she arrives in the Czech Republic - maybe not by air.

Stu Dudley

Stu.....they weren't meant to be lectures. All thetime on this board we see people who have no idea about how international currency exchanges work and perhaps might not realize how much money one can lose in not making the right decisions or at least not being in possession of all the facts. After hearing the opinions of others, the op will make the best decision for himself.

My experience with those members of the eu which have not adopted the euro, such as the Czech Republic, is that the use of ATM's is probably greater than within the euro zone because for the reason that travellers arriving from the euro one will have euro but not Czech currency so the advice is still the same. Train stations will have ATM's...border crossing location will have places to exchange currency; just enough to get you to the nearest ATM.

But again, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and you expressed it. I get people all the time who tell me they won't use credit cards, for example, for small purchases for fear their credit cards will be compromised. Fine, that's an opinion. I don't agree with it but it's an opinion.

I felt the way I do twenty five years ago when I regularly began visiting Europe and feel the same way I do today....

If you or a friend have an account with Bank of America you can buy currency there. They were selling it for 140.00 Thursday. No fees, just a few cents more than the going rate. We were getting nervous when it took a huge jump last week but seems to be coming back down slowly.

Triple A sells a pack of various bills at their offices called Triptiks or some such thing, it is on their website.

I agree with the other posters that you can replinish cash easily, but I also think that it is wise to have enough on you to get out of the airport or train area and then you can use your ATM in a less scam prone area.

It is important to note that many automated sites, for example ticket machines in Paris do not accept mag stripe credit cards without a smart chip. So far Chase is the only US based credit card company offering a smart chip option.
Triple A has a travel debit card, the modern version of travelers checks but it is not smart chip enabled.

I agree with the poster who recommended a debit card option. The good news is that credit cards are accepted everywhere, the bad news is that if your credit card info is stolen it could be awhile before you realize it, so a loadable credit/debit card, that is not linked to your other accounts can be useful.

Though credit card theft is not limited to Europe.. we've had our credit card stolen in Walmart in the Ozarks of Arkansas and used within hours to buy a ticket in Singapore!

"It is important to note that many automated sites, for example ticket machines in Paris do not accept mag stripe credit cards without a smart chip. So far Chase is the only US based credit card company offering a smart chip option. "

Thanks so much for this information! I will move some money to my Chase account just in case. That's a big help!

I really do know all about the options, but when I land in a foreign country after 20 odd hours of travel, and have a bed waiting... I really just want to take a taxi or hop on the bus or whatever... What I really do not want to have to do is schlep all over the airport looking for a working machine cuz I wasn't smart enough to pack a few bucks.

Also, with a short layover in Frankfurt I want to be able to pick up a few things without having to hassle with credit cards... Having lived in Europe I believe in Murphy's law. I'm not going to change thousands of dollars, but enough to get me through a strike, or avoid some of the horrific ATM fees (which can negate any savings, according to my daughter's last trip in Paris last year.

All of which was why I didn't want any lectures. LOL

Dukey1 -- not only did I google to DEATH but I even googled with the word "forex" -- I just couldn't remember the rest. It's a shame that you had to negate your kind act of supplying the information with the snide swipe. No one HAS to answer or help on this forum. But instead of saying "go google it" or "go look it up" you could just ignore the post. I spent an hour last night giving info to people about various spots that I know about -- sure they could look it up -- but I have the info at hand -- why not help? That's what's so fab about this forum -- the kindness of those who help! (Now if we can just that one person to STOP removing posts that mention names... grrr... lol)

Oh, that reminds me of the time I was driving from Cannes to Paris via the Alps. We ate dinner in Italy and I left all my cash as a tip... didn't know there was a toll before leaving Italy. Oops. I just looked at the guy, held my hands palm up and shrugged in the universal sign of "what are ya gonna do" and said "non-che piu" (obviously I don't speak Italian) then offered him francs or dollars -- he took the francs, lol.

It is just sooooo much easier to get a day's worth of money when you're here and not dealing with anything else... And of course I keep it in my money belt and/or other places that are less obvious than a wallet. (Heck, for Rome I'm considering carrying a walmart wallet stuffed with paper, so they steal that one and leave my real money alone lol. )

Thanks again to those who were helpful!

TF

Just moving money into a Chase account won't do you any good. You would need a credit card (I know of no US ATM cards with chips) with an actual chip in it, and I believe the fees for the available cards are quite high. I've managed without one, although it is annoying not to be able to buy train tickets in France, for instance, without standing in line to deal with a real person.

The way to avoid excessive bank fees - for both ATM and credit cards - is to use a bank that doesn't charge them. I have an on-line account with Capital One, in addition to their credit cards, for that very reason. It's also why I have a Credit Union account.

I'm an American living in Paris 7 months each year. I do very well using ATMs for all my cash requirements here in Paris and all throughout Europe including non-Euro zone countries. It's as simple as using ATMs in small town USA. Why complicate your life? I have and recommend a Capital One Credit card and Capital One savings account thus I pay no, zero, none ATM or foreign transaction fees with either the credit card or atm card.

As information I obtained an American Express Blue Card (with the chip) in hopes of being able to buy train tickets from the ticket machines in France but they do not work; you need a European card with chip. You can buy short distance tickets though since most station's machines now accept currency as well as coins. I renew my Navigo (Paris metro/RATP pass) that way all the time.

Try Andrews FCU...they offer a credit card with chip and pin with no annual fee.

@xyz123 - That's very interesting, as I would love to have a chip and pin card. However, I can't find anything on the site that says who can join, only a reference to being within the "field of membership". Also, there's nothing on the credit card page about chip and pin.

I have just applied for and gotten an Andrews FCU CHIP and PIN card. It is a true card, no need for swipe. See this thread:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/chip-in-credit-card.cfm

I have links on a post with FAQ's and where to apply. You do need to join the credit union but can do so with a $5 deposit. And you also need to join American Credit Council to join the credit union [since you won't belong to any of the groups] but that is free and can be done right from the application page to join credit union.

[There are no annual fees, but right now, I don't know what, if any, foreign transaction fees might be charged. Will know that tomorrow when I call; I just did all this on Friday.]

Join the credit union FIRST, then apply for the card, so you have a membership #.

And FYI, Chase has a debit/ATM card with a chip and pin. I could not find any chase credit card that has true CHIP and PIN.

Thanks!

Last year at this time, I would have stated that a swipe card could be used to pay for just about everything except tickets at a train station & the metro, and some toll roads. But, this past June we encountered a large chain Hyper Marche in the Pas de Calais (north of Paris) which would not take our swipe card. We've charged groceries at perhaps 100-150 other Marches throughout France without any problems. This Hyper Marche had just converted their system to an apparently all-chip system, and although the old swipe machines were still at the check-outs - the clerk said that they did not work, and when we actually tried them with several of our swipe cards - she was correct - they didn't work. On this same trip we found another grocery and a large gas station where our swipe card would not work.

In London this past Sept when we were there for 2 1/2 weeks, we had no problems using our swipe card, except at the Tube station at the machine (no attendant was present who could process our swipe card & the machine did not take cash). In Paris for 1 1/2 weeks this past December, we also did not have any problems using the swipe card, except when purchasing a Navigo at the metro station (it took cash).

Lesson - we had better start looking for a chip/pin card to use in Europe. Deb & xyz123 found a US chip/pin card, but I don't think either of them has used it yet ??? LarryJ said that he has a AE chip/pin card but it would not work in Paris - only a European card would work!!

Stu Dudley

Forgot something.

We've "filled up" our car using an attendant at the "booth" to process our swipe card perhaps 200-250 times in Europe over the past 35 years. Never had any problems - until our trip last June when our swipe card would not work for 2 different large gas stations. Of course, we know that our swipe card won't work at an unattended station where you pay at the pump.

This year should be more revealing about what's happening with the swipe card.

Stu Dudley

I've travelled to Europe many times and do love the convenience of ATMs, but I too am someone who doesn't even want to think about having to acquire Euro when I get off the plane from the U.S. so I always bring some with me. I get that the exchange rate isn't great, but it makes me comfortable, so I do it.
I'm going to Paris in April and just ordered Euro from my bank, Wells Fargo. They have a minimum of $200 USD to convert. I checked a few other online sites, can't remember the names, and they also had a $200 minimum order. I haven't seen this before, but it's been several years since I've placed an order, so perhaps this minimum requirement has been in place for a while.

Diane

To Diane,

If you often travel in Europe why not use your ATM card just before returning to the USA to get some euros for the start of your next trip. You will certainly get a much better exchange rate then buying euros from your bank at home.

About the chip versus swipe credit cards: if anyone finds an American credit card that works in the Metro/RATP and SNCF ticket machines please let us know. There is more to this than just having a card with a chip instead of magnetic swipe strip. I buy SNCF tickets on-line and have them delivered by post to my home in Paris but I would like the convenience of using the machines to recharge my Navigo and buying SNCF tickets on short notice.

I'm considering applying for this credit card from Chase. Does anyone have any experience with it? It states that it has "smart chip" technology for international travel and has no foreign transaction fees.

https://creditcards.chase.com/credit-cards/jp-morgan-select-card.aspx

BTW, I do have a Capital One credit card and a Capital One ATM card to avoid all foreign transaction fees. I'm just looking for one card available in America that has the Chip and PIN technology so if I'm stuck in an unmanned Metro station with no Euros on me, I won't really be stuck. (Why is the US so slow to catch up, anyway?)

Chase has a bunch of cards where they offer the emv chip but they all have annual fees (and high ones at that) and their cards are chip and signature, not chip and pin. There is still a great deal of question whether or not the chase chip and signature cards will work in the automated machines such as the RATP machines and the unattended petrol stations. On other forums, there have been mixed reactions to whether or not one can count on their working. Several of the citibank cards also offer emv chips upon request, again they all have annual fees (like the AA mastercard)....I used one while in London a couple of weeks ago and it does work but the caveat is that all the places I tried it for smnall purchases (it has the obnoxeous 3% foreign transaction fee)and were in places I have always used magnetic strip cards so can't tell you really how good a product it is.

xyz, it looks like you're right.

I've been doing more research, and apparently Chase is being dodgy about it, but travelers in Europe are reporting it does require a signature and, therefore, isn't a true chip and PIN. Obviously won't work for me.

Chase gives some lame advice like, "put in any 4 digits" if asked for a PIN, but I'm not buying it. Too bad. First year fee is waived and I was willing to give it a try, but not anymore.

Of course I'm right. I wouldn't have posted if I wasn't right. <g>

This whole thing has been really nutty for a while with arguments galore on a couple of forums I use. It has made no sense for the USA to lag so far behind. Not that chip and pin is necessarily the greatest thing since chopped liver or whatever. The claim from the US banks is that fraud is not as big a problem with the US cards as they are in Europe, that it would be expensive to convert the entire US payments system at this point for a technology that hasn't proved to be all that superior to the magnetic strips and that something better is coming (so of course is Christmas). They're all nonsensical excuses. Hey those countries that use the emv chip and pin issue cards with magnetic strips anyway for use in backward countries that have not moved in the directin of emv (there is only one, you can guess which one it is). There is no reason under the sun for them not to issue the chip and pin hybrid cards that is cards with both a chip and a magnetic strip but they basically don't give a damn. As Stu pointed out, more and more places are no longer taking magnetic strip cards even at manned or womanned check out counters besides the obvious problems with the kiosks. But that doesn't seem to annoy our banks. After all, Chase has figured out they can extract high annual fees for those people who think they need emv cards and then doesn't tell them the cards may be worthless at automatic kiosks anyway..

But at least mc/visa have finally begun admitting they are going to have to adopt emv in the USA within a few years. Perhaps the move by Andrews fcu will begin the migration to it.

My wife worked for Visa for about 10 years. We retired in '99, but she went back to Visa as a part time consultant for the following 8 years after she retired.

About 10 years ago, the chip/pin thing came up, & my wife called the person at Visa who was responsible for that stuff. At that time, Visa was worried that if a US person had a Visa Card that required an entry of a pin, and the US person also had a MC/AE card that did not require a pin - they would pull out the "other" card and use it. Also, merchants would have to have two types of card readers.

Stu Dudley

merchants would have to have two types of card readers.

The card readers in Europe, as Stu must know, can generally scan either type of card. However, last summer I came across a brand-new scanner that took only the chip--this was not a refusal by an ignorant sales clerk.

Also, merchants would have to have two types of card readers.

Are you serious? Maybe in big tourist markets but most certainly not when you are travelling about the country. If a customer has no EMV or pin and chip credit card and the credit card machine is not set up to accept magnetic strip cards (or the merchant just refuses to accept magnetic strip cards), the merchant simply demands payment in cash and it has happen to me on more than one occasion.

>>Also, merchants would have to have two types of card readers.<<

I was referring to merchants in the US.

I don't think US merchants would be too excited about scrapping all of their readers, and then installing a single reader which would accommodate both swipe cards and chip cards - the latter which they might rarely see anyway.

Michael - the readers at French train station automated ticket dispensers, Paris metro stations automated ticket dispensers, gas pumps, and some toll booths can't accommodate a swipe card. Recently, this "only chip" reader has crept into other services too - as you have experienced.

Stu Dudley

Whatever happened to the American "can do" attitude? On my desk, for reasons I won't go into, is a card reader. It accepts both chip & pin cards and magnetic stripe cards. It is portable, and accesses the payment service by mobile phone signal. The instructions, however, assume that the vast majority of transactions will be chip & pin.

U.S. stores won't all have to go out and buy new card readers tomorrow. When their current reader gets old and stops working, the new one will the chip & pin feature. Every place in Europe has had to buy a new card reader over the past ten years or so. Why is that impossible in the U.S.?

You can avoid foreign transaction fees with a Bank of America card if you use specific banks, Barclays in the uK , BNP Parabis ifn France , BNL Italia in Italy. They are lsited on their website. You can also avoid CC foreign fees if you have a Virgin ATlantic or British Airways credit card.

chartley...it's not impossible. As a matter of fact, although they're not operational, many US merchants such as Walmart and even the US Postal Service have replaced their terminals recently and almost all have the ability to accept chip and pin although few are operational. It's just one of the silly excuses including the idea fraud is much lower on US credit cards and the telephone lines in the US are more secure that are being used to try to justify the bank's resistance to chip and pin.

Personally, and I know for example travelgourmet disagrees with me, part of it is the American arrogance that things in the USA are always better and the USA cannot show the world they want to be part of the global community. Hence, of course, the USA still clings like about 3 other countries in the world to the Farenheit system of te mperature, a change long overdue (and which wouldn't be all tht costly). And even though the English who originated thesystem of measures have converted most of their weights and measures to metric, the USA still clings to the outmoded English system (although the argument that it owuld be costly to change all the highway signs is a valid one but you have to start somewhere with dual signing). Finally, the USA still clings to costing its treasury literally millions by not getting rid of the $1 bill and finally coming up with a nice thick coin worthy of being a $1 coin.

The reluctance to adopt chip and pin, and to at least begfin issuing hybrid cards good in both systems is further indicative of this attitude despite the inconveniences it causes.

One other point on chip and pin and its affect on credit card fraud. With cvhip and pin, transactions must be done out in the open where you see your card at all times. It makes it somewhat more difficult for a dishonest clerk to slide your card through his or her portable card reader and give the informtion to organized crime. This is especially true in restaurants, With chip and pin, they bring the terminal to your table so you can enter the pin. I have become pretty obnoxeous about this. I will no longer give my credit card to a waiter to go into some back room the steal the numbers. I insist on going to the back room with him and boy this sometimes causes a lot of let's call it controversy. Those portable terminals, all of which are capable of doing a magnetic strip transaction too, should be mandated in all USA restaurants.

on the flip side what do people from Europe do here in the US when the gas pump ask for your zip code?
I bought enough Euro to pay for the apartment in Paris through Bank of America.
We had problems in Edinburgh last Sept using a credit card and my atm card from USAA would not work at all. It was my back up card so was ok but that did not make me happy. I had called and got it for that purpose, as a back up.

If you use a chip and pin card from Europe or Canada here in the US, you will have to go inside to the cashier and they can process the card, inconvenient but not awful. I believe there are no unmanned gas stations here, not that I have ever seen.

Here's the final info: there is a 1% foreign transaction fee but no fee charged by Andrews FCU for foreign transactions and no annual fee. The rep I talked said that the feedback from members [military in Europe] have indicated that the cards works as true CHIP and PIN.

So, I will use my Cap One no fee debit and credit cards where ever possible and this card for unmanned kiosks.

Hope this helps.
Deb

When we were in Paris in December, we would stock up the apartment in a little grocery store on rue St. Dominique. Most of the time I paid cash. One time when I used my mag stripe credit card, I gave it to the cashier who looked at it, did not see a chip, sort of made a 'harumph' sound and reached under the counter for a swipe reader that worked just fine. That was all OK but I wonder what will happen if ATM's start to only accept chip and pin cards. Like others I would be very interested in hearing about a US card with chip and pin that works in Europe. The one time I called Chase about it, they said they did not know of any plans. Hopefully that changes.

Like others I would be very interested in hearing about a US card with chip and pin that works in Europe.

Read my above posts, waterdog.

http://www.andrewsfcu.org/media/doc/201109_Andrews_Federal_Launches_New_VISA_Card_with_EMV_Technology_FINAL_2.pdf

You posted before I finished mine, so question was answered. Thanks.

s'ok

DebitNM I think the same goes for driving in Europe. We are only renting a car in Normandy this trip and others have said that you have to find a petro station with people working there. I am not going to stress much over it this trip.

When we went to Paris in 2009, our mag stripe card could not be used in any automated machines and was refused at one grocery store (a Franprix at 16 rue de la Cerisaie).

So when I learned that US Bank was issuing a Visa card with a chip, I called and asked that our existing US Bank FlexPerks Visa (which was formerly a Northwest Airlines affinity card we had been using for years) be reissued with a chip, and they did so.

We used this card when necessary during our trip last fall and it generally worked pretty well. We always offer our Capital One card first and it was accepted in many places like hotels, restaurants and large stores. The US Bank Visa worked in all ticket machines for the Metro, RER, Transilien. The tabac in our neighborhood (11th, St.-Ambroise) where we topped up our Navigo passes would only take a card with a chip. It was always accepted at the grocery stores that would not take the mag stripe card. In those stores, a signature was required to complete the transaction.

There was some inconsistency, though. The Autoroutes between Lyon-Annecy-Beaune did not accept the chip card in their automatic machines. When we drove from Beaune to Troyes to Reims, the card worked. In some parking garages, it worked and in some it didn't. A PIN was required in a couple of those.

It never worked in a fuel pump which was a real disappointment since there are a lot of unattended pumps.

On balance, it was good to have. I'm hoping that by the time we go again, there will be improved acceptance of US issued cards.

For more information about the US Bank card, see:
http://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/flexperks-travel.html

Now, if we could somehow have a Capital One card with a chip, that would be ideal. Maybe someday.

Capital One card with a chip

Amen to that!

you have to find a petro station with people working there.

Keep in mind that many, particularly those associated with supermarkets and with the lowest prices, are closed for lunch and on Sunday.

MaineGG - I just looked at the card using your link. I don't see where it says it is a CHIP and PIN card. It looks it has a chip but it still must be signed?? I had called USBank and they said they did not have a true CHIP and PIN card.

Wow, so many posts, and only one answer. Like Dukey did, just put "buying foreign currency" in a Google search and loads of options pop up.

<can't seem to find the site> It's not only one website, there's oodles of them.

Another call to Chase this AM turned up that Hyatt has just announced a chip and pin VISA card.

Michael, thank you about the Sunday tip! @Suze, I am always glad someone ask questions like these because it changes so frequently. I now am looking at the Chase Hyatt pin and chip card and think that Bank of America is cheaper to use for cash instead of http://www.ezforex.com/

Bank of America does not charge for cash withdrawals in France when done from a BNP-Paribas ATM.

That Hyatt card is CHIP and signature. Here is a comprehensive list with annual card fees shown. Some have strict requirements to join the Credit Union or are only commercial cards.

Again, Andrews is the best one for most people:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ani-u3tGk5hedGRvcE1ELVg5UmlGZk01SHZvTUMxdUE#gid=0

https://www.wellsfargo.com/foreignexchange/

I like to have money when I arrive also because the apartment we rent only takes cash and the last thing I want to do is wonder were I am going to find money to pay for it after a long flight. I monitor the exchange rates and then try and purchase when it is about $1.33 as that is the average rate I have normally received when using my ATM card in Paris. Google "yahoo currency converter" to watch the rates and then purchase from Wells Fargo. https://www.wellsfargo.com/foreignexchange/ it is usually .06 to .08 higher on the dollar than the daily rate but still slightly cheaper than what you would pay through esforex.com who you can also purchase from. If you give yourself enough time you don't necessarily have to lose money on the transaction because you could purchase money when the exchange rates are lower than they would be while you are actually traveling in Europe. Good Luck!!

DebitNM - This card does not normally have a chip. I already had one of these cards, so I called US Bank and requested them to change it out for a card with a chip. It is, primarily, a chip and signature card and they tried to tell me that I didn't need a PIN. I insisted that I might need one and wanted one, so one was assigned. I was only asked for a PIN twice, both times by machines in parking garages (Troyes and Reims). Had I not had a PIN, the transaction would not have gone through.

In ticket machines, neither PIN nor signature was ever required.

In grocery stores, I would have to insert the card in the chip reader, the transaction would go through, then I had to sign just as we do here in the US. The nice thing was that the card could be read by their equipment when the mag strip card could not.

DebitNM - Here's the announcement of US Bank's plan to issue the card with chip:

http://www.nfctimes.com/news/us-bank-issue-dual-interface-emv-cards

Thank you for posting this, Travelin Feet. Good timing for a trip I'm about to take too.

All this chip and pin talk sounds like an excellent reason TO land with some local currency in my pocket. The last thing I want to worry about is being exhausted and trying to figure out how to get to my hotel if my debit card doesn't work - having some money on hand buys me time to look for other options.

The last time I was in Europe we landed in Rome after an overnighter. We were exhausted - I still remember all of us waiting for a half hour in the terminal for some of our travel party to come back from their quest to get local currency. We could have been on the taxi halfway to our hotel and that wonderful bed that was waiting for us by the time they returned - and the exchange rate they ended up with was horrible. This time, I'm planning to land with some seed money in my pocket! Yes, it will cost me, but there is almost always a cost for convenience.

Suze: What side of the bed did you get up on today? Sheesh. If you don't like it, don't read it.

The latest: OK, so I went to EZForex -- and discovered they wanted my social security number. No WAY was I gonna do that. So, pursuant to another idea I got here, I called AAA. Turns out they do it online withOUT your social. Still not a very good rate, but they deliver it to your door on the day you pick (even next day for an extra charge) and

I WAS DONE IN ABOUT THREE MINUTES!!!

So, when I land in Nice, after 20+ hours of flying (23 I think) I can just jump in a cab or bus or what have you, and be on my way. And better yet, when I land in Morocco late at night I'll be set! (NOR did I have to spend working time on it -- figure out what you get paid per hour and include that in the cost-benefit analysis.)

Call me a happy puppy and many thanks to all for the thoughts!

TF

The last thing I want to worry about is being exhausted and trying to figure out how to get to my hotel if my debit card doesn't work

The ticket machines at T1 or T2 will accept magnet strip credit cards for purchasing RER/métro tickets into Paris.

Most all taxis now accept credit cards. Simply tell the concierge at the taxi queue that you want to pay by credit card and he will be sure you are matched to an appropriately equipped taxi.

"try and purchase when it is about $1.33 as that is the average rate I have normally received when using my ATM card in Paris. "

That simply makes no sense. The rate you got on any previous trip has no bearing on what you'll get today or next month.

Capital One update. I just got off the phone with them. They claim that NO US Capital One cards have imbedded chips. I asked her to double check because of what I read here... she checked and was told only European cards come with imbedded chips? So if you have a CapOne card with a chip please let me know precisely what kind?

Also they did confirm that there are no foreign transaction fees.

So when all is said and done, sure sounds like we're gonna be carrying extra Euros in hidey holes until this all gets straightened out.

Oh, and AAA does not do travel checks anymore, just cash debit cards (like that's gonna help if they don't take the other cards?) but apparently the local banks still do. Unfortunately they don't come in anything smaller than a $50.

TF

No one here said that Cap One had a credit card with a chip. We just said we wished that they did!

And I hear that travelers checks won't do you much good in Europe. I used to take them as back up, but now I take a a few hundred dollars instead. (Stashed in the money belt.)

I have the tc as backup for Morocco -- just in case my cards get stolen or wet or...

Yes cash too -- in more than one place lol. (As I noted in my Morocco post, I learned young to always have enough cash for a taxi or a change of hotel, in case of a bad situation... only had to spend it twice...but sure was glad I had it then... of course that was before we had banks, and everyone carried gold with them. ;-0 )

My goodness! This is my first time on Fodor and having just read these last "65" posts makes me want to say to you all "Move to Australia!" We turned metric almost 40 years ago and all our banks are offering chips and pins - AND 90% of retail outlets take both. I really do live in the lucky country. As far as carrying cash goes - I have traveled Europe & Asia often and always like to have a bit of local currency on hand when arriving - and have found cause to use it regularly - even if it is just to purchase a soft drink.

Yes butg nelsonlk, your Australian banks allow merchants to impose surcharges for use of a credit card and it is more universally done than in the United States as I understand it (recently the US Congress began prohibiting mc/visa from imposing restrictions on merchants' abilities to give cash discounts and only the gasoline stations seem to be doing that on a large basis; although somehow the difference between a credit card surcharge and a cash discount escapes me. Perhaps somebody here can explain the difference).

However you guys still drive on the wrong side of the road. <g>

Merchants are allowed to impose surcharges "only" to cover their merchant fees which generally varies from nil to about 4% - however it is a practice not taken up by retail merchants as they know their customers will take their cards and shop elsewhere. The only time I have experienced these surcharges is when purchasing on the internet - eg airfares - and the fee is insignificant. It's the other hidden taxes that are the killer. Airfares return to Europe $1,350 + $668.22 tax! Yes I'm with you on the cash discount - it would make me wonder if the money goes into the till - AND - that old wrong side of the road has whiskers on it. Is that the best you can do?

Feet, I just checked the local airport(minneapolis) and it has an atm that dispenses euros,pesos etc. The airport has a booth for exchanging currency also. Check your departure airport. Hope this helps. ps. I'm like you in that I want cash in my pocket before leaving on a trip. Enjoy your trip, ziggypop

attitude is everything

I don't get how you're going to be "all set" when you get to Morocco. You do realize, I hope, that Morocco doesn't use the euro. And that traveler's checks will be utterly useless there unless your plan is to buy AMEX ones and you can locate an AMEX office (which will cost you dearly on both ends).

Are you planning to take euros to Morocco and exchange them for dirhams once you arrive?

and everyone carried gold with them. ;-0 )

Pieces of eight just don't stretch that far these days, do they? Better to exchange them before leaving home!

Yup, I'm a total moron and haven't figured out that Morocco doesn't take Euros. Either that or I bought MADs too.

Good point on the TCs tho -- mine are leftover from another trip and they are Visa... I guess we'll see...

My first stop, in Cannes, accepts credit cards and indubiably all kinds. I will check rate of exchange for MADs there. My second stop is a mid-level Riad in Fes. Although late at night I'm sure that in the morning someone can sort me out with finding an exchange, but at least I'll have a few hundred in cash in case I need to pay a guide first or want to tip the driver...

Hmm. I'm arriving Friday night, so first day is a Saturday -- are exchanges going to be open?

When I leave Fes I'm going on my "grand tour" nowhere where they will take anything but cash I expect, so I'd better take lots of cash with me. Suggestions of how much,not counting purchases? My tour includes breakfast and dinner but not stops along the way,entrance fees etc. (See Moroccan Itinerary)

What about Essauoira? That's the unknown I guess.

Then Marrakech, then Rome, then home...

You don't need an "exchange" in Morocco. They actually have ATM machines there too! Use your debit card.

There are ATM machines in Fes and Essaouira and Marrakesh. PLEASE don't travel around Morocco with wads of cash - that would be really unwise!

>>>Oh, and AAA does not do travel checks anymore, just cash debit cards (like that's gonna help if they don't take the other cards?) but apparently the local banks still do. Unfortunately they don't come in anything smaller than a $50.<<<

You might have trouble finding anyone that will cash travelers checks. If you do, you can be certain it will be a terrible exchange rate.

I can't understand why you think it's so hard to stop for one minute in the airport when you land and use the ATM. They are scattered throughout every airport.

OK. Don't carry cash, don't carry travelers checks, many places don't take credit cards... not to mention electrical surges that send computers out of service -- and of course no ATMs in small Berber villages (or even the souks). What am I supposed to do traveling outside the large cities? Is Fintt gonna have an ATM? Not. (Or heaven forbid you get your passport stolen and you have to get to a consul)

So what would YOU do as a backup for ATM/credit cards?

With any luck I won't have to use my travelers checks, but I bet that if I owe a restaurant a few hundred MAD, and their credit card machine goes down, they'll be happy to see that tc. (Just call me belt, suspenders and a shoelace!)

TF

I take two ATM cards from two different banks and two different credit cards. I also have a little bit of cash leftover from my previous trip and take a little bit of USD.

You are on a tour. You are going to tourist sites (that's what tours do). It's not like you are going to be wandering the countryside alone to obscure villages. There will be other tour companies with their tour buses. You won't be the only ones. Where there are tourists, there are ATM's.

Your food/transport/hotels are included. You can't possibly need much cash although I'm surprised your entrance fees aren't included. Most companies include entrances unless it's an extra optional excursion. Usually you have to sign up for optional trips in advance and it's put on your tour bill so you shouldn't need money for that either.

Even in the 90's, in a little three street village in Greece, there were internet cafes and ATM machines and I had no problem using my credit cards in the shops.

From a Moroccan tour company website:

>>>>Travelers Checks In Morocco
Traveler's checks in Morocco are discouraged in case things go wrong because they can only be exchanged at a bank when it is open. Since you never know where or what time of the day an emergency can strike, travelers checks are not highly recommended when traveling within Morocco. <<<

They also state ATM's are readily available and here's a recent article.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/travelblogs/235/146919/ATM+GROWTH+IN+MOROCCO?destId=355491

Traveler's checks in Morocco are discouraged in case things go wrong because they can only be exchanged at a bank when it is open.

Things have changed. I would not count on TCs, but when we were in Morocco almost 20 years ago, TCs were also accepted by money changers(?). We purchased two djellabas and did not have enough cash, so the merchant took us to another storefront where someone accepted our TCs and gave us cash. The rate was surely not standard, but we were not in a position to argue.

<<So what would YOU do as a backup for ATM/credit cards?>>

You don't NEED a backup. Your TCs will be absolutely useless. You're on a tour, for heaven's sake - they'll take care of you, plus you're not exactly going to remote areas - everywhere you'll be is somewhere that thousands of tourists like yourself pass through. Moroccans are ingenious. If you DO happen to find yourself somewhere where you don't have the means to pay for something you need or want, some Moroccan will figure out a way for you to pay for it. I bought a rug in a very remote village in the Atlas mountains once, was totally on my own - no tour - and insisted on paying for it with Amex because at the time I was collecting points. The rug merchant didn't take Amex, but oh wasn't he just eager as heck to jump on his donkey, rush over to some village where he knew someone who DID take Amex, give some guy my Amex card number, charge the rug to me, and deliver the rug to my hotel that evening.

If you get your passport stolen - which would be highly unlikely unless you're very careless - you DO have a problem. But again, tour operators are used to dealing with crises.

Twenty years ago TCs were useful in a lot of places besides Morocco. Not any more.

There may be no ATM in Fintt, but the most cursory search turns up one in Erfoud and three in Ouarzazate, and you only have a couple of nights in between, so why would you need to carry a whole bunch of cash? And your passport should be in your money belt.

If you get your passport stolen

make a photocopy of your passport and send it to your e-mail (presumably accessible via the web). That way you can always print out the relevant information if needed.

Twenty years ago TCs were useful in a lot of places besides Morocco. Not any more.

But I suspect that St. Cirq's rug merchant would be just as creative with TCs as he was with her AMEX card...for a price, of course.

Since you are going to be stashing wads of various currency
in a - what? - money belt on your person make sure you aren't
touching that bundle to see if it's still safe. Pros watch
for that tell-tale tic and will do their darndest to remove
it from your area of 'safety'. Bpdy-language is so telling.

It's amazing to me that a tourist would want to complicate
their vacation time by returning to the 1950's - but then
a chacun son gout sans accents....enjoy those tc moments!

OMG I'm not bringing a travel trunk for heavens sake. And the person who bought a rug is a good point... Asking a merchange to go off to another town for points... he-hem..

All of the hotels that ask for cash, btw, are happy to take TCs (I've asked) because they are just trying to avoid the credit card charges. That way I'm NOT carrying wads of cash.

For me the point is to not inconvenience others and even more, not to spend my precious vacation time finding ATMs

Have already travelled all over europe with a money belt...

Ironically I'm more worried about Rome than Morocco, in terms of theft.

Already have passport in email as well as a backup in my house that anyone can fax anywhere needed, and a backup for my luggage.

OK, back to work

TF

The thing is, cr*p happens. And it makes a great story afterwards. But the more things you can easily prevent the better. (Doing a cost benefit for weight vs reward).

BTW I'm going with a driver, not a whole tour. And it turns out that I WILL need MADs the moment I arrive -- to pay my driver. And at 11 pm I'll be danged if I want to be running around in search of an ATM.

My currence arrived at 9 this a.m. as promised by travelex. It took me all of three minutes to arrange it. I figure it cost me about an extra $10-15 plus mailing (unless there are ATM or foreign currency charges for your ATM use,in which case it cost me even less.) A VERY good value to me rather than running around an airport at that hour of night... But if you prefer the hunt for an ATM, then wait in line for the travelers ahead of you, well a chacun son gout

"For me the point is to not inconvenience others and even more, not to spend my precious vacation time finding ATMs"

But it is OK to spend time searching for someplace to cash those stupid TCs?? OF COURSE those hotels will 'accept' those stupid TCs since they are in the drivers' seat and can charge any exchange rate they choose.

have fun . . .

>>>My currence arrived at 9 this a.m. as promised by travelex. It took me all of three minutes to arrange it. I figure it cost me about an extra $10-15 plus mailing (unless there are ATM or foreign currency charges for your ATM use,in which case it cost me even less.)<<<

No way it only cost you that. Yes, you are paying $10-15 mailing fee, but you are also paying a bigger fee in a bad exchange rate. Travelex is notorious for lousy rates.

It's likely you will spend more time looking for an exchange company (there are fewer today than there were ten years ago because everyone uses ATM's) than you would an ATM.

<<I figure it cost me about an extra $10-15 plus mailing (unless there are ATM or foreign currency charges for your ATM use,in which case it cost me even less.)>>

Your naïvété is precious.

StCirq, your rudeness is not precious. Your need to "be right" speaks for itself. It goes with your story that you seem to think is funny, of forcing a poor merchant trying to make a living to jump on his donkey and go to another town in order to make a sale, so you wouldn't miss your precious credit card points.

I did the math and I don't think I lost more than $10-15 on the exchange rate. But then I didn't buy thousands. (Their rates were significantly better than that of ezforex)

For some reason none of you seem to get the difference of spending time on the computer at home, while doing other things versus wasting time upon first arriving at a country.

That's just fine. You know-it-alls go running around your airport at midnight to find your ATM, hauling your luggage and your sleepy spouse. We already know you don't give a fig how long you make your driver wait. Maybe that's your idea of being smart. Meanwhile my driver will have dropped me at my hotel and I'll be asleep.

We understand that you are new to this Forum, but you should really cool it, TravelinFeet. You are being unappreciative, and rude. The folks here have really gone out of their way to share their knowledge and experience with you. If you don't want to take our word that travelers checks are outmoded and useless in this day and age you are free to do what you will.

I'd really like to have you post a trip report when you return to tell us how well things went; doing it your way. In the meantime, however, you can never expect that this reader would ever answer one of your questions on this, or any other forum.

Jeeze Louise TravelinF!!! . . . And to think you live in (or at least near) my hometown. If you don't believe us -- go in to Travel Outfitters (where you bought the reversible skirt) and ask Jon or Warren what they think about travelers checks . . .

Do you think everyone is lying to you? We were honestly trying to help you but you know what you know (which ain't much) and definitely aren't interested/willing to listen. Have fun . . .

"You can not graft new ideas onto a closed mind"

"You know-it-alls" - pot calling the kettle....

I'm with nukesafe.

According to the Bank of America website, in Germany you can use Deutsche Bank ATMs without an extra fee. I Googled Deutsche bank and located their branches in the areas I'll be visiting. There were not many. I then searched for ATMs. I don't know which ATMs will charge what kind of fees, but I have added their locations to my Google Map so I know where to look. It doesn't seem like when I arrive at the Munich airport I'll have trouble locating an ATM. All the banking info will be added to my TripIt (cell phone app) itinerary along with the other hotel, dining and sightseeing information. I'll also have printed information. So hopefully I'll be able to find and use ATMs wherever I go.

Well, if nothing else I got my Andrews Credit Union chip and pin card from this thread!!

>>>I did the math and I don't think I lost more than $10-15 on the exchange rate. But then I didn't buy thousands. <<<

Your math is very faulty. I've priced money exchanging with Travelex when I was asked to send a payment overseas. I know for a fact you didn't just pay the mailing fee and that you got a lousy exchange rate.

It's important for people posting on this thread to correct misinformation (other people will search this forum in the future about getting money).

A paranoia of ATM machines is not normal. People do not run around airports trying to locate ATM machines. They are often in the arrivals hall (as they are in the Morocco airport) just as you exit baggage claim (right by where your driver waits in most airports). You can go to most airport websites and locate the ATM's on a terminal map before you ever depart your home.

>>>That's just fine. You know-it-alls go running around your airport at midnight to find your ATM, hauling your luggage and your sleepy spouse. We already know you don't give a fig how long you make your driver wait.<<<

It takes all of one minute to use the ATM. I've never seen a booked driver not include wait time in their price(typically 1 1/2 hours).

And for the record, I most certainly didn't force some poor rug merchant to get on his donkey and go to another town - that was HIS CHOICE. He INSISTED on it. He wanted to make a sale, and his credit card swipe machine wasn't working and I didn't have cash. It would never have occurred to me to even ask him to do such a thing.

And kybourbon is absolutely correct about Travelex - you got hosed. But frankly, you deserve it.

To Traveler A: none of the ATM machines in Germany will charge you (except non-bank ones). You don't have to search out particular Deutsche Bank ones.

I'm wondering if TF uses ATMs at home. Maybe s/he doesn't know how. My elderly aunt was afraid of being robbed -- in a very safe area.

To those of you who are too tired and jet-lagged after your plane's arrival to draw money out of a convenient ATM, how you find your way out of the airport? How do you find your transportation into town? Whereas you'll pass right by ATMs; it only takes a minute.

StCirq - I think TA is referring to fees charged by Bank of America if you use ATMs not owned by their partner banks. The solution is to get an account from a bank that doesn't charge fees - e.g. Capital One (account, not credit cards) or a Credit Union.

Ah, I'm not a BoA customer. Thanks for clarification.

Mimar - apparently TF expects to stagger out of baggage claim into the arms of her pre-booked driver. She seems to be in the same class of travelers as those on another thread who thought it understandable to leave baggage claim with someone else's suitcase.

Oh dear, now I'm concerned about the 'sleepy spouse' schleping
through the airport laden with coinage; and then there's the
poor driver who needs to know the location of all those many
charitable exchange bureaus offering fantastic rates.

And I'm seeing St.C in full Lawrence of Arabia gear atop a
camel cracking a whip in one hand while waving an AMEX card
in the other.

The collected travel wisdom on this thread is probably in
the hundreds of years and worth its weight in - well - gold.

TF specifically said he/she lost $10-15 on the money ASIDE from the mailing fee, that wasn't the mailing fee. That could well be right if one only got around 150-200 euro. Travelex where I live charges a 7 pct fee, that is pretty normal. If someone wants to spend that 7 pct plus whatever the mailing is and it is worth it to them,seems fine to me as long as they know what they are doing. Different people value things differently. Tons of people would never in a million years pay for a taxi into town after an intercontinental flight, but that service is worth the money to me compared to many other things I don't care a fig about (like expensive restaurants or buying things like clothes, or anything designer, you name it, there are many threads on Fodors by people who like to buy things they don't need).

Thank you Christina for bringing civility back to a thread that was becoming increasingly dominated by childish middle school behavior. Running behind a cloak of "we are just trying to help" is a poor excuse. There is a difference between truly trying to help someone and ridiculing choices that differ from our own. In fact, the comments a few members made here makes me wonder what kind of world travelers they are. Traveling involves respectful accomodation of choices that differ from our own.

Yes, thanks Christina.

I, too am willing to pay extra when necessary, to avoid using an ATM at the airport when I'm jet lagged. Usually I just keep Euros at home from a previous trip, but when that doesn't work (because lent to DS, because its a new country/currency, whatever ...) I don't mind paying a few bucks extra for peace of mind and convenience.

I am not an inexperience traveler, nor paranoid, I use ATM's frequently at other times, have no trouble getting into town from the airport, I do not steal other people's luggage(don't even get that one?)... I just can't face waiting in line and trying to push a correct sequence of buttons on no sleep, while watching my bags.

There does seem to be quite a bit of piling on here, especially since the OP makes it clear that s/he understood the arguments against -- s/he didn't want another lecture, just simple information.

Is there typically a long line at ATMs in airports after the arrival of transcontinental (or any, really) flights? I don't expect to have trouble *finding* an ATM but perhaps finding one without a long line of people waiting to use it is a problem? Because if so, maybe that's what the OP wishes to avoid. I don't know because I've never been in that situation, but I will be this summer.

Sometimes *finding* something isn't the tough part but actually accomplishing the task *is*.

TA - no. the most I've waited behind is two, and that's rare. None or one is more usual.

In response to a previous post -- The US/EUR 52wk Range is 1.2627 - 1.4247, so budgeting for $1.33 does not seem silly to me. My point is/was to let readers know that waiting to use an ATM machine or credit card when you reach your destination does not necessarily mean you will have saved yourself money because what you saved in fees you "may" have lost in exchange rates. Having said that, for those interested I also factor in other things that I didn't mention in my previous post, such as I read the money news reports on the finance website because I want to factor in things that might drive the exchange rate lower or higher before making a purchase...such as a pending Greek default or a bad US jobs report. I also purchase at least a $1,000 dollars worth of the currency so that I garner no additional delivery fees (and since the place that I stay only excepts cash this works for me...may not work for others and I understand that) In the end $1.33 is not an unchangeable number just a goal.

So to the question of how to buy currency online, I have provided an option in Wells Fargo with the caveat to watch the rates before purchasing the first time you log on. For those who find this information useful...and I do know many will not. I have re-posted the links below.

Happy Travels

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

https://www.wellsfargo.com/foreignexchange/

klieghj: "The US/EUR 52wk Range is 1.2627 - 1.4247, so budgeting for $1.33 does not seem silly to me."

To clarify -- You originally didn't post that you "budgeted for about €1.33". That makes perfect sense. When the € is running between say $1.25 and $1.35 -- I'll 'budget' for around $1.30 just to make planning easier/realistic guesstimates.

What I was responding to was >>I monitor the exchange rates and then try and purchase when it is about $1.33 << -- that's different -- and sometimes you might have a loooong wait.

We discuss this here all the time. Nobody knows what will happen to exchange rates in the next few days, weeks, months or whatever. Besides the market forces, there are external factors that contribute to whatever gyrations there are. Philosophically, the current administration, whether they admit it or not, are in favor of a weaker US dollar (as well as higher oil prices). Germany, for whatever the reason perhaps because of what happened during the Weimar Republic stands for a strong euro which may or may not be detrimental to other members of the eu. So the point is, nobody knows.

What you do know is that when you use an ATM, for the most part, the shared teller networks, Plus and Cirrus, are controlled by visa and master card who assume the currency exchange risks and do the actual exchange and their rules are basically spelled out i.e. you will get the interbank rate with a 1% mark up for protect them against currency fluctuations. Some banks just pass those along, some banksadd additional fees, some banks eat the 1%. Each bank is free to set their own policy but the ATM operator has no part of this game...they deal in local currency. Thus if you withdraw £20 from a Lloyd's Bank ATM in London, as far as Lloyd's is concerned, it's a £20 withdrawal. Visa or MC will reimburse them the £20 in GBP minus whatever the interbank fee is. Visa (or MC depending on the network) then converts the £20 using the exchange rate at that instant in time with the 1% added on. It reaches your bank already converted although your bank might add its own foreign transaction fee. This is in addition to any feels your bank charges.

Now no money exchanger ever gives you anything near the interbank rate. Right now, the euro is trading around $1.32 as the interbank rate (it varies all through the day but rarely, very rarely are the changes dramatic). That's around what the rate should be. But you might see in the window of a bank say in Paris USD under buy $1.45 sell $1.20...that spread is of course how the bank makes money, it's one big ponzi scheme all these transaction paper transaction and at the end of the day, they would relatively even out. Go to a bank ith that in the window, hand over $100 and you'll get about €69..a European wishing to travel to the USA handing over €100 will get $127..that spread is how the banks (and Madoff too) make money. There may or may not be other fees.

There are many on=line services that provide foreign currency and they may well claim no fees but the exchange rate they use is rarely anything very good.

Of course, if you feel more comfortable that you have euro in your pocket when you arrive in Paris, who am I to tell you you're being paranoid. I wouldn't dream of doing that but when I travel, I don't worry about those things. When I arrive, if I need euro, it's off to the ATM. But more and more public transport in many places take credit cards.

Oh my dear xyz123 - I truly hope your electronic life continues uninterrupted and trouble free. I used to laugh at my husband always insisting I have some cash in my wallet - even if it was just ten dollars. Then one day several years ago most of the Eastern Powergrid of the United States went dead for two days (any of you remember that?) Suddenly my precious debit card, which I've always viewed to be as good as cash, was useless. Gas pumps didn't work either and we were 100 or so miles from home. That was no problem though since hubby never lets the gas drop lower than 1/4 tank. We were able to get home, and that cash in our wallet put a good meal in our stomach en route. Of course, we would not have been stranded or hungry for long even without the stash, but that little extra made the situation much more comfortable. I was very thankful for my husband's "paranoia" and have adopted a little of it myself.

The reality is that often times our choices are motivated by experiences in life. May life always treat you so kindly that you never develop any "paranoia."

While it is true that I also have chosen to have no cash on hand when I landed overseas, I actually planned on doing it differently this time (and that was before I ever read this thread) because the last time it wasn't dangerous or anything, it was just uncomfortable. In this case, the amount of money I will need to spend to increase my comfort level is worth it to me.

I'd also be more comfortable in a four star hotel and first class transportation the whole way, but that level of comfort I CAN'T afford.

bbtb..I tried to word it so that I wasn't knocking anybody..to each his or her own, of course and the day may come that something happens to change the way I live my life when it comes to money...it hasn't now for over two decades but then you never know.

At xmas time, I spent a week in So Cal (Southern California)....I flew into SNA and rented a car...credit card transaction...I stopped off at Walmart or was it Target to pick up some sundries..credit card transaction...I checked into the hotel...credit card transaction...I went out to dinner...credit card transaction...next day we went to Disneyland...parking credit card transaction...tickets credit card transaction...lunch credit card trransaction....bought some ice cream from a vendor...cdash transaction..dinner..crdit card transaction..conven ience store for some overnight stuff...credit card transaction. Think you get the picture.

This past February, I went to London. I made one £20 cash withdrawal from an ATM at some point in the week. Took the tube into central London from Heathrow credit card transaction to top up my oyster card....checked into the hotel...credit card transaction.....went to either M&S or Pret a manger for lunch...credit card transaction...topped up my mobile phone sim card...crtedit card transaction...after some rest went to dinner in the West End..not terribly expensive restaurant...credit card transaction...picked up some sodas and chips for half time at the theatre...credit card transaction....theatre tickets purchased before leaving...stopped at convenience store...credit card....I thnk again yo get the picture. I stopped at a nearby internet cafe each morning to read the NY Times and all my home town papers, did whatever banking was necessary..there I paid cash..£1.50 for 75 minutes....that was the extent of the cash I spent in London the entire week....

Now I understand not all European cities are like London which in many respects when it ocmes to plastic is pretty much like an American city...some places have minimum transaction amounts (I stay away from them)..I have absolutely no regrets in going into a Tesco or Sainsbury and picking up two 500 mil bottles of coke for £1.19 and charging it (I haven't been turned down). Now the point I'm making is that's the way I have gotten used to living whether at home or on the road and I find it so much more convenient than worry about exchange rates or plannng in advance or whatever becasuse I know I'm getting the best exchange rate possible (as a matter of fact, I had a visa card with no foreign transaction fees which paid me a 2% rebate to boot...sadly tht card has met his demise so I'm now "forced" to use either a card giving a 2% rebate but with a 1% foreign transaction fee but it's an Amex and not always taken or a visa card with only a 1% rebate and no foreign transaction fee (although I get 2% at groceries)...such problems <g>

To me, I wouldn't dream of travelling any other way so I suppose that's why I don't get the fixation on cash.

About a dfecade ago, the drivers who deliver cash to Parisian ATM's went on strike. So you know what happened? Merchants who had minimums for use of credit cards dropped the minimums. You could buy a single metro ticket with a credit card. And life went on.

Now I understand if I go off the beaten track, perhaps I will have to adapt to a different way of doing business. I get it. But as I said, I just can't picture life without credit cards and ATM machines and the like. Maybe I just don't fit in (and again this is not to say if you do things different, there is anything wrong. I repeat, to each his or her own!)

"I just can't picture life without credit cards and ATM machines and the like...."

Nor can I! Love 'em and will be using them for 95% of what I do on my upcoming trip - maybe more. They have already bought my plane and train tickets.

I think though, that those who understand the desire to have a little cash are not speaking of this OR that, but rather this AND that. Mostly this (our beloved cards) and a little of that (cash).

Your knowledge and experience with exchange rates, card types etc is very valuable - I've learned alot from it. Sounds like you have traveled so much you even know where to find the ATMs as soon as you step off the plane, and you probably have connections all over the world that would make it so you wouldn't have to spend the night in the airport starving on the small chance that there were a problem like our Eastern Power Grid outage. Not all travelers have that level of knowledge or back up support systems.

oops - I hit submit instead of preview.

So anyway, be thankful for the advantages you have and just always keep in mind that there are many reasons why people may do things differently, and those reasons are likely based upon culture,life experiences, and even age. I'm sure you do keep that in mind about the people you meet in your travels - same holds true for fellow travelers.

If you don't know about the Eastern Powergrid outage - here is an article:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003Cached

It was something! I was at the Cedar Point Amusement park when it hit, twenty minutes from boarding the Millenium Force Roller Coaster - second biggest in the park. So glad I wasn't on board, because those who were on board were stuck at the top of the first peak, half hanging over the front, half off the back, for a half hour! Anyway - thats a different story. But, those of us who experienced it will not forget it.

Sorry - this is the correct link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003

Looks like travelin feet's feet are travelin in reverse. As far as I'm concerned new posters should be restricted to two words - please and thank you.

Thankfully, colduphere, you do not set the rules. The people who do set the rules for this forum state the following:

"Please remain civil and refrain from personal attacks on other posters. Sarcasm, no matter its intent, is a tricky thing to interpret online and may be perceived as a personal attack. Personal attacks and offensive comments will be removed and can result in the suspension of your account."

Actually, there is one caveat to all of this i.e. there always has to be a back up. Admitedly it has become much easier since the advent of the euro so a trip to Western Europe at worst would only involve sterling, euro and swiss francs but in any event, I do bring about $100 in nice crisp US $10 bills and in the unlikely event that ATM's are not vailable, I can always hit the exchange windows to change a little bit of US currency but that's it.

BittenByTheTBug: I wouldn't really lecture Colduphere -- he was joking . . .

... and please and thank you is four words.

I always carry gold bars in my fanny pack, just to be on the safe side.

...Yep.. but the joke specifically targeted travelin feet without addressing the original question at all.

So joke without ridiculing the member who asks a question (aka - personal attacks). Ridicule sets such a negative tone and, in this thread anyway, it seemed like it turned into downright bullying. Felt like I was watching a bunch of mean schoolkids gang up on the new kid in class.

And Apres - I'll add to that - I always carry a few bucks tucked into my bright white sneakers!

Bit new yourself to be acting as class monitor, aren't you, bbtb?

Yes, and I won't even mention that TravelinFeet attacked me the other day on my thread...

"Do you love your wife? Has she put up with your standout uuugly outfits all these 22 years? Show some class and dress for Paris the way SHE wants you to... The woman deserves a break for heaven's sake!! Not joking..."

Where was Bitten then?

(Note to TF - Ignore the above. I am just trying to win an argument. No hard feelings. Saw your advice on Nepal. Thanks.)

Why buy currency in the US? Use your ATM card; there are ATMs at airports, railway stations, and of course banks. Check with your ATM card issuer for the service charge before going and let the issuer know that you will be travelling so it will not block your withdrawals if they seem excessive. The rate you will get is better than at most places where you can change money, though a bit less than the wholesale rate.

Obviously you can carry Euros into or out of any country. If you travel to Denmark, for example, simply withdraw enough kroner to cover what you think you'll spend there if you plan to return to a Euro-using country.

thursdaysd - yes, new to the Forum, not new to life. With middle age we get alot of bum deals - wrinkles and slow metabolisms and grey hair - one of our consolations is we finaly get to speak our mind. Hate bullying - always have, always will - and will speak up about it if seems things are getting get out of hand.

Which brings me to you, Colduphere. You are right. Those were harsh statements Travelin Feet made. Can't blame you for taking a little revenge. So, since I want to be an equal opportunity defender, I went and looked at your thread. Hmm - tough one. Gotta say, you kinda set yourself up for that one. But, I will say in your honor and defense (and I will even go over and do so on that thread if you want me to) that I have a husband who is a self proclaimed and unrepentant bad dresser, but its not a deal breaker. That didn't matter much when we had money to buy dinner and gas to drive home when the power went out. Clothes do not make the man and he was the night in shining armour that night. Watch out for your wife's best interests and she'll likely overlook your clothes. Just don't expect her to dress bad or tell her she's only allowed to say please and thank you. If you do and she whollops you for it, you'll find no sympathy here.

So getting back on track - I meant to tell you, xyz123, that I love all your supporting facts. Also love you were willing to acknowledge that there might be understandable reasons for a viewpoint that isn't your own when you were presented with supporting facts. I learned ALOT from your posts. Thanks for the pointers, and I'm relieved to know you do carry a tiny bit of cash just in case. In fact, that is I think the perfect compromise that I will be using on my upcoming trip - just keeping enough American cash on me so if there is an unexpected problem with the electronic version, there is a back up. Perfect!

bbtb - retaliation in kind is not bullying.

Carrying back-up cash is one thing (I take a couple of $50s and $100s). Carrying TCs is another.

"Which brings me to you, Colduphere"

OMG that brings back such horrible memories of our primary school principal. What a bully she was. Looks like its back to therapy for me.

>> in the unlikely event that ATM's are not vailable, I can always hit the exchange windows to change a little bit of US currency but that's it.<<

That is what hundreds of other people did in '01 when the ATMs were on strike. Unfortunately, the "others" got there before me & drained the banks & exchangers of Euros.

Stu Dudley

...boy, Stu, I didn't know that ATM's had such a strong union <g>

But I'm sure you made good with your credit cards!

>>But I'm sure you made good with your credit cards!<<

The very first thing we had to do when we arrived by plane in Nice & got to our gite, was to pay the gite owner around 1,000 Euros in "cash" for 2 weeks rent. The day before we departed from the US, I checked the aol travel forum and found out that the ATM strike was still "on", and that about all of the banks had been "raided" of cash. We purchased money belts, and around 1,000 in Euros from the San Francisco BofA.

Credit cards for everything else.

Stu Dudley

If you have to carry around a lot of cash in Europe, you might want to take a look at the Eagle Creek Hidden Pocket. It has worked well for us.

http://www.eaglecreek.com/accessories/security_id/Undercover-Hidden-Pocket-41129/

Stu...as I said about 100 posts ago, I do agree that about the only circumstances I can think of where it might be necessary (and desirable) to get local currency in advance is what you described i.e. paying in cash for an apartment. The problem with ATM's is both your bank and the local banks put restrictions on how much can be taken out in a day (it is usually in most cases around $300 or so from your bank although upon request it can be raised byt the local bank establishes its own restrictions no matter what your bank allows so I agree with you there; that's a place where one can get cash in advance and probably should.

Thursdayd - you are right, which is why I apologized to colduphere, but not here. We're back on topic. Lets stay there. Keep talking money......

MaineGG, your example only works if one wears a belt. There are examples of other styles at that web site. My husband wears one around his neck, mine is around my waist.

Assuming you don't run into a strike, each ATM has a limit of how much you can draw out in a single transaction. However, you can make multiple transactions, at the same ATM or at another one.

I have found no withdrawal limit which is ATM specific. Withdrawal maximums are typically set by your own bank and changing ATMs is unlikely to allow your withdrawing a sum which exceeds that allowed by your bank´s own 24 hour withdrawal restrictions.

Banks generally will ease the withdrawal cap (usually around $500 per 24 hour period) if you make a specific request.

Sarastro: "I have found no withdrawal limit which is ATM specific. Withdrawal maximums are typically set by your own bank and changing ATMs is unlikely to allow your withdrawing a sum which exceeds that allowed by your bank´s own 24 hour withdrawal restrictions."

Many ATMs have a per-transaction limit. Often €250 or so. The per day limit is set by one's bank -- but the per-transaction limit is set by the bank owning the ATM. Two different issues.

Perhaps you have found a bank ATM with some type of withdrawal restriction janisj and maybe this occurs at Many ATMs but I have never experienced this personally nor have I read accounts of others finding such restrictions (other than your account).

What I have found to be problematic are withdrawal ceilings triggered by one´s own bank. This is a frequent concern for those attempting to pay for gîtes, apartments, or chambres d´hôtes which only accept payment in cash and often payment in advance.

What janisj said. I have often made two back-to-back transactions at the same ATM.

Yes, what janis said. It's two separate issues. If my own bank's limit is $1,000 a day, and the European ATM's limit is 250 euro per transaction, I just keep hitting up different European ATMs until I get my $1,000.

StCirq - you often don't even need to find another ATM. The local limit is often per transaction, rather than per day.

Since I don't have the time to read through all 140 replies to your question, I will tell you that we ordered Euro for our trip through AAA on line. Yes, there is a markup for the service, but they are prompt and accurate, and as luck would have it, we ordered our Euro when the rate was lower and actually paid less for them than we will for those we withdraw from the ATM machines next month (unless the exchange rate drops dramatically from where it is now). I can recommend the services of AAA for ordering online currency, for whatever reason you want to do it. And yes, we will be using our debit card from our bank to withdraw additional funds while we are in Europe. Good luck and enjoy your travels!

I will tell you that we ordered Euro for our trip through AAA on line. Yes, there is a markup for the service, but they are prompt and accurate, and as luck would have it, we ordered our Euro when the rate was lower and actually paid less for them than we will for those we withdraw from the ATM machines next month

and what was the total cost per $100?

Follow-up: our new Andrews FCU CHIP and PIN card came today, 10 days after applying for it [ 2 weekends probably slowed it down some].

Michael - with the fees, it came to about 1.31 USD per Euro - but remember, we bought these back with the Euro was at around 1.24. Since the Euro is currently around 1.316 - we pretty much broke even but even paying the 7 or 8 cent markup was worth it to us to have the Euro when we arrive (and buy them when we had the cash to do it).

Thanks for the followup Deb. I just applied for one....
I enjoyed this thread, educational and entertaining. I do not think traveling feet is a first timer, just a new screen name. It is unfortunate things got snippy, xyz gave out some great info and I think it got lost in translation.....for the record when we go to France next year I will exchange some US dollars for euros at the airport before flying off.

Don't worry ziggy - we worked it out.

Blasted money! Always one of the main causes of family fights.......

Blasted money! Always one of the main causes of family fights.......

Amen!

>>>Sarastro on Mar 12, 12 at 11:56am
Perhaps you have found a bank ATM with some type of withdrawal restriction janisj and maybe this occurs at Many ATMs but I have never experienced this personally nor have I read accounts of others finding such restrictions (other than your account)<<<

Rarely, for the past ten years, have you been offered a choice of more than 250€ on a European machine (in the last couple of years I'm noticing an increase). It has nothing to do with your home bank or your personal daily withdrawal limit. It is the ATM machine's transaction limit. Typically, you can withdraw the 250€ and put your card right back in and get another 250€, as long as you don't go over your personal limit.

To get money in advance of your trip from AAA or Travelex, you will pay about a 10% markup plus a mailing fee. I don't know what AAA's minimum purchase is, but Travelex has a minimum order of 250. AAA used to only make the exchange service available for certain locations only (none in my state).

Sometimes, when you are traveling in a different time zone, it's helpful to know when your bank's update time is and rolls the 24 hour daily withdrawal time over to the next day.

Rarely, for the past ten years, have you been offered a choice of more than 250€ on a European machine

Where are these banks that limit ATM withdrawals? I conservatively withdraw 4,000€ to 5,000€ a year from French bank ATMs and have never, not once be restricted to 250€. I use la Poste, BNP, Caisse d'Epargne, even Crédit Agricole and every withdrawal I make is from 300€ to 400€.

Are you referring to non Bank ATMs?

No, I'm referring to bank ATM's in Europe. You only get an option of a certain amount of euro to withdraw. Typically, your selection will be in increments of 50€, 100€,150€ up to 250€ being the maximum choice. This is not just my experience as multiple people have posted the exact same thing on this thread. I've never seen any choice over 350€.

I guess we would like to know exactly where you go that you can select a withdrawal of 5000€ in one transaction on an ATM.

>>>I conservatively withdraw 4,000€ to 5,000€ a year from French bank ATMs <<<

Not sure what this would have to do with anything. The amount you can withdraw over the course of a year has nothing to do with the discussion.

Sarastro: It happens all over - France, Italy etc.

I also never had trouble getting €300, €400, €500 in a single transaction from an European ATM. DH was just in Amsterdam and he took out €700 in one single setting (he had to pay €550 for the apt on arrival). Same story last year when we were in Barcelona and I took out €500 from the ATM in one transaction.

My apologies kybourbon, these big numbers can be confusing to many people so I´ll try to break it down for you. 5,000€ withdrawn per year divided by withdrawals of 400€ mean on an annual basis, I make 12 withdrawals a year. Of these 12, not one has been subject to an ATM withdrawal limit of 250€.

The confusion here could be that I am reading the France forum and as the OP has tagged this thread in other forums; namely Czech Republic, Germany, and Italy, perhaps you are experiencing these restrictions in one of these other countries.

No, I've experienced a 300 euro limit many times in France - a 250 euro limit a couple of times.

If some ATM card holders are experiencing limits and others are not; and if we assume everyone is using bank ATMs (non bank ATMs could have anomalies) then the only explanation is that restrictions are bank card or bank account specific.

My ATM card was issued by USAA; does anyone experiencing restrictions have an account with USAA?

<<then the only explanation is that restrictions are bank card or bank account specific.>>

Nope, because I've encountered a wide variety of bank limits in the course of a single trip to France. In Le Bugue at the Crédit Agricole it might be 300 euros - later in the day in Sarlat I may be able to get 500 euros from the BNP. Same bank card. Same account. And my own bank limit is usually set at around $1,000.

And no I don't have an account with USAA.

I've encountered a wide variety of bank limits in the course of a single trip to France

And I have made withdrawals at a variety of banks within the course of a single trip to France and never experienced at an ATM restriction.

There could be several reasons but the only explanation that presents itself is that the bank card itself triggers something that imposes ATM limits.

"then the only explanation is that restrictions are bank card or bank account specific.

Nope. I've used the same 2 cards/accts on every trip for 15+ years - and have found ATMs w/ and w/o per-transaction limits in Italy, France, Spain. I don't specifically remember if I ever ran into this in the UK. I sort of doubt it - I spend more time there than anywhere else and don't think I've ever had a problem.

>>>then the only explanation is that restrictions are bank card or bank account specific.<<<

Nope. I've traveled with lots of people from different states using various bank/credit union ATM cards. If the limit on the machine is 250€, it's 250€ for everyone.

Sarastro, the only trouble I have ever had with an atm card was my USAA card. I was just happy I had another. I tried it all over Ireland and Scotland and it never worked. I just applied for the Andrews credit union chip and pin card.

It doesn't sound like the OP is interested in using credit cards or ATM machines. I have traveled to Europe like most people have without more than one or two Euros in my pocket for a 3 week period and never needed cash at all!

The OP simply wants to know where to get Euros prior to arriving in Europe and doesn't mind traveling around with lots of cash. It is foolish and expensive, but sound like she doesn't particularly care.

The advice everyone is giving from personal experiences is great to read but remember she is not really interested.

flpab, I remember reading about your difficulties with your USAA ATM card. I have yet to encounter any problems using mine anywhere I often travel, in the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, Netherlands or in France. You might have had card magnetization problems or maybe your card was somehow not activated for certain foreign withdrawals. You would really need to ask USAA for an explanation.

I have been eying the Andrews CU credit card (does not answer the cash procurement problem however). My USAA Visa card is not EMC and does pass along the 1% Cirrus currency conversion fee (no transaction fee) but does reimburse 1% on all purchases meaning I have a net zero cost for foreign transactions albeit with using a magnetic strip credit card.

I also have a no foreign fee PenFed card but unfortunately PenFed recently reduced their cash back offer from 1% to .25%. For me, the 1% Cirrus fee of the Andrews card represents giving up a significant sum annually adjusted so I have hesitated for now. Hopefully USAA will finally issue an EMC card and the problems we all experience will be but a distant memory.

I think the Andrews credit card and a second, totally fee free credit card together make the most sense. Use the totally free one where ever you can and save the Andrews card for where you need a true Pin and Chip card [can't swipe or unmanned kiosks]. That is what I plan to do in October. Cap One cards [both ATM/debit cards and credit cards] have absolutely no fees to use and no annual fee. Those are my other travel cards.

Talking of reward credit cards..

The best I had was a visa card offered by Charles Schwab brokerage. It featured no annual fee, no foreign currency or transaction fee, and a 2% cash rebate on all purchases. Originally the rebate was automatically deposited into your Charles Schwab account every month. Later on, you could set it up to have the rebate deposited into any account you wanted. I used it for all my foreign trips and told myself I was getting 5% namely the 2% rebate and the asinine near criminal 3% foreign transaction fee. I combined that with a Pen Fed visa card offering 5% on all gasoline purchases and I was in pig's heaven or something like that.

The card was serviced by FIA, the remnants of MBNA which was bought out by Bank of America several years ago. In October, the demise of the card was announced and done. We were offered as a replacement the Bank of America cash rewards card keeping the no annual fee with a sliding 3-2-1 per cdent rebate (gasoline though not needed because of the Pen Fed card, groceries for 2% but limited to $1500 a quarter and 1% for everything else). Believe it or not, the one thing they did do is reain the no foreign transaction fee, a rarity for a Bank ASmeridcard (alathough this is only for those who got the cash rewards cards from the Schwab card). Also if you deposit the rewards into a Bank of America account, you getr an additional 10% reward. So that when the reward reaches $25, which has to be redeemed in $25 increments, if it is deposited into a Bank of America account, you get $27.50.

Not as good as the Schwab card of course. So I began looking around (such important earth shaking decisions). I came up with an American Express card, serviced by FIA, which indeed has the 2% cash rebate on everything although it cannot be redeemed till rewards reach $50. It's not a bad deal as it has no annual fee but it does charge a 1% foreign transaction fee (bummer) and since it's an Amex card, at times there are places that don't take it, no so bad in the USA but somewhat of a problem in Europe.

Of course, as noted above, I went for the Andrews card to have something to use in a sitution where only chip and pin will do although that means a 1% foreign transactin fee.

Also I watch the Chase Freedom card. Although it has the #=asinine quasi criminal 3% foreign transaction fee, in the second quarter of this year, they are scheduled to have a 5% rebate on restaurant and lodging charges, I think. So...if they give me 5% and I pay a 3% foreign transaction fee, that's like having a 2% rebate, isn't it? ?And of course Discover has a similar program but as we all know, Discover is not accepted outside the USA (athough in theory, you can use Discover anywhere Diners Club is aken which it is in China but of course Diners Club is almost nonexistnt today in Europe).

Boy do I have to make some tough decisions.

I also opted for the Andrews card as a result of this long and informative thread. Years ago I used to "buy" a few Euros at my B of A location, but now I usually have Euros leftover to use on the next trip and then rely on ATM's while in country. A Cap One card eliminates 3% charge fee. So the combination works for my travels

Clarification: the 3% charge fee is for purchases. Cap One and several other cards don't charge this.

Huh......? I really don't understand the original question. The OP and most people here travel often to Europe. That being the case why not take a hundred euros or so from an atm just before returning home and eliminate the problem that you seem to perceive in buying euros back home? You end the hassle and save money as well.

Ok lets do the reality game. Walked from one end of frankfurter airport. To the other without noticing an ATM. Are you really gonna.use a credit card for a pack of mints? I did see an exchange.

Here in Cannes you could have to walk as much as several miles out of your way to get to an ATM. Are you really going to pay for a coffee or pastry or newspaper with a credit card?

It was totally worth it to arrive with Euros! And I'm definitely glad I have MAD in my pocket before arrive jng in Morocco!

Oops. Sorry. Kindle buttons small lol.

This forum is not just for those who are always traveling but for newbies too. And I heartily recommend the comfort of a hundred bucks or so in euros in your pocket when you arrive. Especially where my danged bank is dinging me five bucks plus 2-2% in fees for ATM withdrawal! Not everyone can change banks for a trip.

And I can guarantee that the luggage boys in the Medina do not take credit cards l!