mariojbra

Hello friends,

I´m travelling with my wife and baby < 2 year and planning the itinerary below for our 23-days trip to Europe .

Just for you to know, we both already know Lisbon, London, Paris and Madrid , so we are able to have some free time just to stroll with the baby in parks, open air activities, etc.

We are also used to travel with our child, so if we change a lot of hotels (like this trip) we always prefer the ones close to train stations

Here´s our detailed itineray
DOM (29/03) LISBOA (Flight from Brazil arring about 9am- hotel near marques de pombal - free time) - - We are going to arrive about 9:00h in Lisbon, so we can also rest this day
SEG (30/03) LISBOA (Aquarium and Parque Exposições)
TER (31/03) LISBOA (royal palaces)
QUA (01/04) LIS-LONDON (Flight from Lisbon arring 15:30pm - hotel near St Pancras)
QUI (02/04) LONDON (windsor castle)
SEX (03/04) LONDON (some sightseeing)
SAB (04/04) LONDON (free/parks)
DOM (05/04) LONDON-BRUGES (eurotrain arring Bruges 16:30 pm - hotel ibis budget next to station)
SEG (06/04) BRUGES (normal sighseeing)
TER (07/04) BRUGES (free or maybe gent / brussels)
QUA (08/04) BRUGES-PARIS (Direct train to paris (no brussels conection - from g. du nord take a taxi for a hotel next to G. Lyon) - We are going to arrive about 9:00h in Paris, so we can also rest this day
QUI (09/04) PARIS (some sightseeing)
SEX (10/04) PARIS (train to loire and take a excursion there OR chateaux/fontaneblaeu next Paris )
SAB (11/04) PARIS (free/parks)
DOM (12/04) PARIS-NIMES (sncf - arrive in Nimes about 13h - hotel Ibis next station).
SEG (13/04) NIMES (train to Avignon- bus POnt du Gard)
TER (14/04) NIMES (train to Aigues Mortes , afternoon free)
QUA (15/04) NIMES-BARCELONA (renfe arring barcelona 12:30pm- hotel next to train station)
QUI (16/04) BARCELONA (normal sighseeing)
SEX (17/04) BARCELONA (normal sighseeing)
SAB (18/04) MADRI-BARCELONA (renf arring madrid abou 12:00- hotel next atocha)
DOM (19/04) MADRI (free/parks)
SEG (20/04) MADRI (royal palace/shopping)
TER (21/04) MADRI-FOR (flight to Brazil)

Please let us know any suggestions you may have. Feel free to comment any part of our planned trip - logistics, cities, order, etc.

Thank you!

menachem

I think you're spending too much time in Brugge. Consider staying in Gent or Antwerp and doing Brugge as a daytrip.

Sassafrass

Be sure to double check times of bus/train from Aigues Mortes or you can end up needing a taxi. Also, Aigues Mortes was best in the evening after day trippers, when you can sit outside and have dinner in the lovely square, Place St Louis, near the fountain under huge trees. Hate to even think of a single overnight, but it is pretty.

mariojbra

menachem, Actually, I also considered Gent, because I heard that Brugge is small and has no life in the evening (same reasons?). But since we are travelling with a baby, nightlife is not very important to us.

Other pro to Brugge is the price. We do like to stay near train stations because the luggage of the baby.

The best room rate in gent was 283 for 3 nights while in Brugge there is a Ibis budget next door to train station for 218 bucks.
In that case, do you still think Gent could worths the extra 60 euros?

sandralist

I thought the exact same thing as menachem reading down your itinerary. I would recommend either Antwerp or Ghent over Bruges. But instead you might want to extend your time in London, and consider an apartment stay there, and just spend 2 nights in Brugge.

If you can take a later train out of Barcelona it might work better. Everything in Spain is much more oriented to later in the day, and a lot of things close up midday. You might as well spend the time on a train.

mariojbra

Sassafrass, since we are not renting a car seems that we can´t have dinner. We are planning just a morning (1/2 day) there and have dinner in Nimes.

Do you know Arles? Could it be a better choice for a side trip (1 full day)

sandralist

Mariojbra,

You and i were typing at the same time. Be aware that the train station in Brugge is a bit of a hike from the historic center. I can't remember if the walkways in that part of town are stroller friendly. Many parts of Belgium are not due to so many cobblestones. (Not sure the situation gets all that much better in Ghent -- where the train station is also a hike (or bus ride) from the historic areas. I did not stay near the train station in Antwerp so can't advise, but just in general it is a much less "touristy" town. However, it is also busier with traffic if that is a factor. But I think if you decide to stay in Brugge you should spend less time there and give that time to another destination.

Tabernash2

I suggest Amsterdam instead of Bruges.

You call this a "budget family trip", but all that traveling around is going to be expensive.

menachem

You have a choice of hotels in Antwerp, and the Central Station is really central.

mariojbra

@Sandralist ,

Althought we book 3 nights we are going to stay in Brugge itself about just 1 full day :

The detailed plans are

Day 05/04 : Arrive in Brussels 15pm, we can leave the bags in a locker, visit Gran Place, and proceed to Brugge later in the evening arring in Brussels may 20pm
Day 06/04 : Full day in Brugge
Day 07/04 : Do a full-day sidetrip to Gent/Antwerp/Den Haag (lots of options)
Day 08/04 : Take a direct train to Paris at 05:53 am

The biggest advantage of brugge to us is a Ibis Budget (I´m aware it´s not a confortable hotel, but at least is a decent one ) almost "inside" the train station. No need to walk or take a transport to the hotel, just drop off the luggage and get a bus from station to city center, at least I hope so. =)

But I´ll continue to search a budget hotel option in Gent , as it seems to be a more lively city

mariojbra

We have been recently to Amsterda and loved it, but to stay there (at least 3 nights) we have to cut down the south of france/provence of the itinerary because I really dodn ´t want to miss Belgium.

Sojourntraveller

You have 7 places in your 23 days, not counting day trips. That is 3.2 days per place minus your arrival and departure day which are always a write-off and minus all the travel time between places which means you will in fact spend no more than 2 full days on average anywhere.

You say a 'budget trip' and yet plan to do all this moving. It is a well known fact that on average, every day spent moviing will cost on average twice what a day spent IN a place will cost. That means your plan is contrary to your 'budget' criteria. If you moved less you would have more money for a hotel in Ghent or wherever you chose to go.

Your approach to 'budget' is to look for cheaper hotels. Why not look at spending less on MOVING and be able to afford better hotels?

In travel as in many things, less is more. The less you move the more time you have IN places to see/do things. The less you move, the more money you have to spend doing things rather than paying to move.

Whenever someone starts out with 'visit Europe' I know they are going to list places over a large area in several countries instead of visiting no more than a few places in a small area. Three weeks is enough time for ONE country or even just one area in one country.

Too many places, in too little time.

Sojourntraveller

Consider graduating from the typical tourist rush from place to place mariojbra and embracing slow travel.
http://www.slowmovement.com/slow_travel.php

mariojbra

Thanks Sojourntraveller , I agree with many things you said.

But as a experienced traveller, I know that every person has different interests and needs. Yes, it´s a short time for each city, even more when you ´re tavelling with a baby. Usually I don ´t recommend anyone staying just 4 nights in London or Paris. Actually, if it was my first trip to these cities, I´d also recommend myself spend more time in each place. =)

But..., in this particular trip we already know most of the cities of the itinerary. No need to spend much time checking in every museum and busy attractions in the city. We ´d love have more time, but we don´t. We are just concerned that things don ´t get too rushed.

And budget means not only economy hotels, but avoid extra charges, taxis, expensive restaurants. We really don ´t feel better staying in a luxury hotel than sitting in an inexpensive cafe on a afternoon stroll.

Don ´t get me wrong, slow travel is really a good ideia, if you have time to afford it.

menachem

Well, you certainly won't have time to do The Hague on a day trip from Brugge. Once you get there, it's almost time to head back.

Also, please consider your child: I've been on trains a lot when our son was that age: it's harder work with a child, that's for sure. If it were me doing the planning, I'd cut down on the moving.

mariojbra

My only regret was buying the flight back from Madrid, i should have bought from Barcelona. So I could cut down on moving and stay more days in France and Barcelona.
And I agree with you, very hard work with a child. Our strategy is travel light with our own things, staying always in hotels next to trains stations and take relaxing days to stroll with the baby. It helps to get things betters.

Alec

It's not a baby but a toddler. While it may seem less work than a babe-in-arms, a toddler can soon get fed up and start throwing tantrums, which is hard on parents and other people alike. You really need to slow down and move at your child's pace, esp after a long transatlantic flight and an itinerary lasting three weeks.

sandralist

Hi,

You know best the needs and preferences of your family. I would only add to the mix of considerations is that it can be quite rainy in Belgium in Spring (or Fall or Winter or Summer), so some of your plans might be affected by that. Same goes for your other destinations in that time frame. The likelihood of spring rains is fairly high, so keep that in mind.

Tabernash2

Day 05/04 : Arrive in Brussels 15pm, we can leave the bags in a locker, visit Gran Place, and proceed to Brugge later in the evening arring in Brussels may 20pm
Day 06/04 : Full day in Brugge
Day 07/04 : Do a full-day sidetrip to Gent/Antwerp/Den Haag (lots of options)
Day 08/04 : Take a direct train to Paris at 05:53 am

Are you rushing it? I'd say so.

For instance, in three days, you arrive Brussels, stash your bags, visit a Palace, and return to catch another train to Bruges. One full day in Bruges. Next day an all-day side trip. Next day you catch a 5:53am train?

Alec

Tabernash2

That's the sort of thing I had in mind when I said to move at your child's pace.