Emmasolotraveller

Hi Everyone!

I am travelling to the United Kingdom for a couple of weeks next month and it will be my first time in the UK(I am from Australia).
I was hoping to get some advice from anyone from the UK or anyone who has experience with the UK train network.

I will be doing a lot of travelling by train to get in and out of major cities in England, Scotland and Wales on my holiday so was looking at the easiest and cheapest way of doing this. My options are either to buy all my tickets in advance, to hopefully get the cheapest price, this has downsides as my itinerary isn't set and it could lead to me missing trains and possibly having to pay for replacements, also I will be travelling through several cities, which adds up a lot of train tickets that I have to worry about not losing.

My other option is to buy a Britrail flexi pass(http://www.visitbritainshop.com/aust...pass.html#tab1) which is quite expensive($479AUD for 8 days) but will allow me unlimited travel for 8 days on trains around the UK.
I was wondering if anyone has used the Britrail pass, is it worth buying? Also if I go with this option I won't be buying tickets in advance, so do you think I will still be able to get a seat on the train?

I have worked it out and overall it seems to be cheaper for me to buy the individual tickets(online and in advance) but I am thinking that taking into consideration the convenience of not having to buy advance tickets and to avoid missing trains, the Britrail pass might be worth slightly extra money?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated, Thanks

PalenQ

You've it it on the head - you could overall go cheaper with discounted and often highly restricted tickets negating any flexibility - I have used about 40 BritRail Passes in my life and for me they all were priceless in just letting me bop down to the station and hop on the next train (no trains TMK require reservations in Britain) - so it depends how much you cherish flexibility.

To me it is priceless to others they want things locked in stone weeks ahead (but then don't miss the train or you probably will be out the whole fare and have to buy a full-fare ticket instead.

Full fare fully flexible tickets often cost a ton in Britain so if traveling on several longish trains for full flexibility the pass often is a great deal - if not the cheapest possible option.

For lots of great info on British trains and passes I always spotlight these IMO superb sites - www.seat61.com - a British site with great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. Of course you probably know www.nationalrail.co.uk is the site giving schedules on all of Britain's few dozen or so individual privatized rail franchises - the railpass is good on all of them TMK.

Instead of a consecutive-day pass you may look at a flexipass, good for X number of unlimited trvel days to be used in a two-month period (I think could be one month) - use days on longer train trips and don't use the pass when in a town or taking very short commuter-type rail trips.

flanneruk

You're going to get limited useful information here, because this isn't a subject where there is much "information." Some serial posters on the subject here have connections with Britrail.

It comes down to your comfort with preplanning versus your own personal need for flexibility.

There's practically no circumstances where "getting a seat on the train" matters. Turn up at the originating station 15 mins before departures, push everyone else out of the way and you'll get a seat (few seats are usually booked) If you can't, stand to the first stop, then grab one before everyone else.

Dramatic savings from advance booking happen only if you book 12 weeks prior. One compromise is to wait till the previous evening (cutoff times typically 1800, though this varies by operator), and book the Advance rate online. This often doesn't work on the some stretches, where discounted tickets sell out weeks ahead - like London-Scotland all year round, London-Devon/Cornwall in summer, and a couple of notorious football nasties, like between London and Liverpool or Manchester on those football season Saturdays when there's a home match in LPL/MAN, or a Merseyside/Greater Mamchester team playing in London.

But most of the time, you get most of the flexibility benefit without the Britrail commitment.

PalenQ

Yup anytime anyone says something about BritRail Passes flanner castigates them as being shills for BritRail - he has called BritRail folks snake oil salesmen in the past.

If you are traveling as much as you say then a BritRail Pass, if you want complete flexibility to hop any train amytine then the pass is no doubt a tremendous deal.

If you want to spend hours tracking down discounted fares with often severe restrictions fine - you set your trains in stone weeks in advance.

Some folks like total flexibility and that is why I always get a BritRail Pass if I am traveling around the U.K. - of course I am a rail buff so ride trains a lot - just for the fun of it.

Bullies like flanner like to intimidate others by slurs - do you own research - check the fares on www.nationalrail.co.uk and compare to passes - if taking trains for 8 days as OP says and maybe wants flexibility a BritRail Pass is a no-brainer.

Now flanner can once again malign as he has done for years any time BritRail is mentioned.

Again the key is if you want total flexibility then if traveling as much as indicated the pass should be a great deal. If you want to splice together a series of discounted tickets 12 weeks in advance often to get as flanner says then you may well find that cheapest.

Cheapest is not often the best IME - at least for me being able to board any train anytime is priceless.

texasbookworm

I do NOT want to enter into the on-going "debate" between the two gentlemen who have responded above--they each will have some good advice (flanneruk will be especially specifically helpful about his area--I will eternally be grateful for some wonderful specifics about Oxford as I planned).

Let me just say what I'VE experienced with 2 different rail passes--one in England (with DH) and one in Germany--
They suited us/me to a T because of their total (practically) flexibility. Not having to decide specifically on an exact time and route, or even definitely about what day, to travel made perfect sense in our cases. Yes, there are cheaper ways to go; in Germany, I used some local passes/tickets that gave some discount over same-day-single-trip prices. BUT would I pay again for a Pass if I wanted to travel a few different days out of my trip and didn't want to be locked into something specific--in a nano-second. The flexibility FOR US was totally worth the extra cost--which I don't remember what the difference was, as that trip was our 2008 one.

texasbookworm

OH, but you better make sure you actually have time to buy them and receive them, or maybe there's some way to pick them up there--I don't remember those specifics, but I know we bought ours several months out.

PalenQ

texasbookworm you must be on the take from BritRail to utter any positive things about them, right?

PalenQ

push everyone else out of the way and you'll get a seat (few seats are usually booked)>

flanner obviously rarely takes any train but the commuter train to London from his Cotswolds' home to say something like that - I've take zillions of rides on British trains and long-distance trains in Standard Class are often nearly filled with eserved seats - so marked by tags - IME it is exactly the opposite and you can often make free reservations (that may vary as to rail franchise) up to the day before and in Standard (2nd) class you should or you may be standing. so ignore that info and make a reservation in 2nd class on long-distance trains.

historytraveler

Pal's inflammatory statements aside, whether a Brit Rail Flexi Pass is worth it or not depends entirely ( as flanner stated) on what degree of flexibility you want and even need. If traveling to/from major cities there will be a wide choice of travel times, however smaller towns/stops might well have only 4/5 trains in a 24 hour period limiting your options.

You say you have already priced tickets and found them to be cheaper than the pass. This is almost always the case. What you do need to determine is what that flexibility is worth to you.Some years ago I bought such a pass knowing that it would cost more than individual tickets. I haven't done it since. On my upcoming trip I have purchased 8 tickets three of them first class for less than the cost of the Brit Rail Pass.

You need to decide what kind of traveler you are. Do you have any kind of set itinerary? A need or desire to be in a particular city or place at a particular time of day? For example, I have a 9:00 departure from Kings Cross to Edinburgh. It gives me time for breakfast and to get to the rail station for train. I'll arrive in Edinburgh about 1:30 giving me the better part of the afternoon to explore the city. Of course with a flexi pass I could leave London anytime I want , but mentally I'll be done with London and thinking about the next adventure. If staying later in London, I'd have to return to hotel to get bags, taking time I don't care to waste. You are really the only one who can decided if the Rail Pass works for you or not.

As flanner says most tickets can be purchased a day or two before at times even on departure at a reasonable rate. In fact, on some routes, prices don't change. With the exception of the longer routes, most tickets prices will be under the $60 a day rate which is what the Brit Rail Pass averages out to be.

bvlenci

My husband and I recently took a trip through England and Scotland by train and rental car. I bought tickets ahead for most of the train trips, but probably not far enough ahead for maximum savings. I didn't buy the ticket for the trip we took as soon as we landed at Stansted, because I wasn't sure we'd make the train I wanted to take, and as it turned out, we wouldn't have. I also didn't reserve in advance the trains we took for day trips, because usually these trips depended on the weather and our mood.

Taking a train isn't like taking a metro. You don't just bop down to the station and catch the next train. Even if you have a pass, you have to do a bit of research to find the trains you want to take. I find that usually I don't have a lot of flexibility. I don't want to leave very early in the morning, because I'm on holiday. I don't like to arrive at my destination after dinner. Finally, I don't like itineraries that have an excessive number of connections. For any given trip, there are usually only a few trains I would want to take. On long trips I would want to make a reservation, even if it isn't mandatory; as soon as you make a reservation, your flexibility is gone.

After our recent trip, I compared what we spent with the cost of a four-day Britrail Saver Pass (for two people who are always traveling together). We definitely saved money by advance online purchase of tickets. However, it wasn't a tremendous amount of money. We would have saved even more if I had reserved even further ahead, but I'm glad I held off until I was more sure of how I wanted to spend my time. I can't honestly say that there would have been much extra convenience with the pass.

It might have been nice, if, as soon as I landed at Stansted, I could have hopped on a train rather than having to buy a ticket. This would have been especially useful if I had got there in time to catch an earlier train, but not in time to buy a ticket. However, this would have been my first use of the pass, and I would have had to validate the ticket at the station before boarding the train, which would have been even more time-consuming than buying a ticket. In all the other cases, the ticket I bought in advance is the one I would have chosen at the last minute.

I think a Britrail pass might be worthwhile for someone who made even more long trips than we did, but this trip already had a lot of train travel by our standards, and even more train travel would have been too much time sitting on a train.

PalenQ

With the exception of the longer routes, most tickets prices will be under the $60 a day rate which is what the Brit Rail Pass averages out to be.>

OK that's about 40 pounds a day.

Well let's see some sample cheapest fares for tomorrow: (nationalrail.co.uk)

London-York (in Pounds) - 96.80
London - Bath Spa - 31.50
Bath-Edinburgh - one train at 93.50 all others 163.10!
Bath-Windemere - few at 70 pounds but most 86.50
Windemere-Edinburgh 59.10
London- Salisbury 37.30

These are typical trips someone traveling around the UK may take and shows for full flexibility the BritRail Pass can be a great great deal for a typical traveler doing such journeys.

Indeed some long long trips like London to Edinburgh almost makes the pass pay off itself!

Now if taking short trips like within an hour or two then perhaps no - and also the BritEngland Pass is cheaper than the BritRailpass if not going to Scotland or Wales.

Plus there are many other angles that could make the BritRail Pass a boon - like the Party Pass - the Family Pass and for folks 60 and over a cheap 1st class pass. I'll go into these next - you cannot make blanket statements about the efficacy of a railpass as some will dismiss it out of hand as selling snake oil without taking those type passes into account.

PalenQ

OK that's about 40 pounds a day.>

From November thru February all BritRailpasses are reduced 20% - the Off-Peak Special meaning that the cost of a 40 quid per travel day pass would then be 30 pounds a day! 30 pounds a day for unlimited at will hop on any train anytime travel during that period.

As I show above flexibility costs a ton - the day before fares I give above more than prove that - the idea that you can have flexibility without the costs of a railpass is a fallacy (flanner - "But most of the time, you get most of the flexibility benefit without the Britrail commitment" as I show above - and we are talking about trips a typical traveler may take and not short hops.

PalenQ

Now the Party Pass gives the 3rd and 4th persons riding on the same pass 50% price breaks - up to nine people can be included on each pass - say you have two couples - then each would instead of paying 40 pounds a day would then pay 25% less or 30 pounds a day (if Nov-Feb take another 20% off that or about 24 euros a day for unlimited train travel at will throughout the U.K.

Have kids under 16 - the they get a free Family Pass and never pay a dime.

So a party of four with kids under 16 could in Nov-Feb travel for 24 euros a day sans limits.

This is why someone, ignorantly IMO, says BritRails are snake oil and never a good deal, is throwing the baby out with the bathwater - not knowing perhaps about these other aspects of a pass - the efficacy of a BritRail Pass depends on several factors and to say never ever a good deal is wrong as I have shown and will show as this could be a great deal for some.

That said for many trip itineraries a pass is a bad deal - if only taking a handful of trains and not wishing flexibility (many want their trains booked in stone weeks ahead of time for comfort of mind and also to get really deep discounts - and that is fine and the way to go and I always mention that when I talk about passes.

But to say no ever that is just misinformation.

sofarsogood

that dead horse and been well and truly flogged