British English
Jan 25th, 2014, 07:14 AM
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British English
Hi, British Fodorites.
I was hoping for confirmation on British English.
"She then read English at Wadham College, Oxford, graduating with a 2:1."
In the sentence above, 'read' means 'studied, as in to earn a degree in English,' right? Would it be common/correct to use 'read' with any area of study (law, medicine, engineering)? Would it then be correct for one to say, "she is reading English at... ," or "she plans to read English at... ,"?
And I googled '2:1' which showed this means 'second class honors, upper division.' Does that mean, she was the second best student among those pursuing a degree in English (in her graduating year)? What would upper division mean, then, at a university level?
And I had another question: I understand a baby's 'cot' is the common term in England (for a baby's bed), but is 'crib' used, also?
Thanks for your thoughts on the above!
I was hoping for confirmation on British English.
"She then read English at Wadham College, Oxford, graduating with a 2:1."
In the sentence above, 'read' means 'studied, as in to earn a degree in English,' right? Would it be common/correct to use 'read' with any area of study (law, medicine, engineering)? Would it then be correct for one to say, "she is reading English at... ," or "she plans to read English at... ,"?
And I googled '2:1' which showed this means 'second class honors, upper division.' Does that mean, she was the second best student among those pursuing a degree in English (in her graduating year)? What would upper division mean, then, at a university level?
And I had another question: I understand a baby's 'cot' is the common term in England (for a baby's bed), but is 'crib' used, also?
Thanks for your thoughts on the above!
Jan 25th, 2014, 07:23 AM
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Yes read means studied in this case. A lot depends on the university whether one reads or studies, the older the university the more likely you are to read.
Bachelor degrees are graded 1st, 2:2, 2:2, 3rd and degree. So the person in your quote did well, but not brilliantly at her degree.
A crib is a small first bed for a new born. They soon move into a cot.
Bachelor degrees are graded 1st, 2:2, 2:2, 3rd and degree. So the person in your quote did well, but not brilliantly at her degree.
A crib is a small first bed for a new born. They soon move into a cot.
Jan 25th, 2014, 07:56 AM
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In English ("British English" is a pointless redundancy: other versions of our language are called "dialects"), "reading" any subject is slightly archaic.
Heitismij is correct to say that the term is used more often to refer to studying the subject at an ancient university, but undergraduates at the two oldest ones typically now shy clear of the term - though I've noticed a perverse fogeyism about this in some students at slightly less ancient places).
People (undergraduates, potential employers, family and recent alumni) usually say "she plans to study (or do) English" (and just "at Wadham" or "at Pembroke, Cambridge" if a college name, whatever its local spelling, is used at both)
If you're writing or speaking, it's always safer to say "study" or "do": journalists can get away with "reading" (it's one of those silly words like "snub" sub-editors love), but it sounds really affected from anyone else.
In Oxford 30.5% of those passing their final undergraduate exam in 2013 got a First, 61% got a 2.1, and 7.5% got a 2.2 (the rest got a Third or a "pass"). There are wide allegations of grade inflation over the past 30 years.
Heitismij is correct to say that the term is used more often to refer to studying the subject at an ancient university, but undergraduates at the two oldest ones typically now shy clear of the term - though I've noticed a perverse fogeyism about this in some students at slightly less ancient places).
People (undergraduates, potential employers, family and recent alumni) usually say "she plans to study (or do) English" (and just "at Wadham" or "at Pembroke, Cambridge" if a college name, whatever its local spelling, is used at both)
If you're writing or speaking, it's always safer to say "study" or "do": journalists can get away with "reading" (it's one of those silly words like "snub" sub-editors love), but it sounds really affected from anyone else.
In Oxford 30.5% of those passing their final undergraduate exam in 2013 got a First, 61% got a 2.1, and 7.5% got a 2.2 (the rest got a Third or a "pass"). There are wide allegations of grade inflation over the past 30 years.
Jan 25th, 2014, 08:03 AM
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"Crib" in English almost only ever refers to the tableau of the Nativity on public display. It's sometimes used fancifully ("look at him, all tucked up in his crib"), but usually for effect. It sounds very odd in normal use.
There's an older use meaning an easy job or a refuge ("after some awful experiences, I got a crib at Johnson's Bank"), but I've not heard it for years, except in novels about life before about 1965
There's an older use meaning an easy job or a refuge ("after some awful experiences, I got a crib at Johnson's Bank"), but I've not heard it for years, except in novels about life before about 1965
Jan 25th, 2014, 08:31 AM
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Crib also means to borrow something dishonestly, for example I could say my daughter 'cribbed her homework answers' from her elder brother. Not that she would of course!
And yes, we use cot for a baby bed, not crib.
Secondly, University Challenge always has its contestants saying (example) - Hello, I'm Jo Bloggs from London reading English (or whatever).
And yes, we use cot for a baby bed, not crib.
Secondly, University Challenge always has its contestants saying (example) - Hello, I'm Jo Bloggs from London reading English (or whatever).
Jan 25th, 2014, 10:46 AM
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>>"Crib" in English almost only ever refers to the tableau of the Nativity on public display. <<
It also has a (very slangy) use to mean someone's home (which something tells me may have originated among criminals) - nowadays it can turn up in reference to the kind of C-list celebrities who can make a career out of making an exhibition of themselves, their lives, their home without actually doing anything particularly substantive with their time. I seem to remember mention of a TV programme called something like "Celebrity Cribs".
>>What would upper division mean, then, at a university level?<<
Roughly speaking, the underlying idea of the degree classifications was that somewhere around the boundary between Upper and Lower Second was what you would expect an average student to achieve with a reasonable degree of effort (and that is presumably how that particular distinction arose). A good student putting in the hours <i>ought</i> to get a 2.1, and that's come to be the normal expectation for getting a good job or admission to postgraduate study (hence the feeling that there's been grade inflation as a resultover the years). I seem to remember a rule of thumb that a US GPA of 3.5 or above from a respectable university was roughly equivalent.
A First is someone who can demonstrate a combination of insight and originality with an authoritative command of the subject. A 2.2 may be a bit of a plodder, or someone who hasn't put in the hours, and the other classifications are definitely also-rans, didn't cares, or had better things to do with their time.
It also has a (very slangy) use to mean someone's home (which something tells me may have originated among criminals) - nowadays it can turn up in reference to the kind of C-list celebrities who can make a career out of making an exhibition of themselves, their lives, their home without actually doing anything particularly substantive with their time. I seem to remember mention of a TV programme called something like "Celebrity Cribs".
>>What would upper division mean, then, at a university level?<<
Roughly speaking, the underlying idea of the degree classifications was that somewhere around the boundary between Upper and Lower Second was what you would expect an average student to achieve with a reasonable degree of effort (and that is presumably how that particular distinction arose). A good student putting in the hours <i>ought</i> to get a 2.1, and that's come to be the normal expectation for getting a good job or admission to postgraduate study (hence the feeling that there's been grade inflation as a resultover the years). I seem to remember a rule of thumb that a US GPA of 3.5 or above from a respectable university was roughly equivalent.
A First is someone who can demonstrate a combination of insight and originality with an authoritative command of the subject. A 2.2 may be a bit of a plodder, or someone who hasn't put in the hours, and the other classifications are definitely also-rans, didn't cares, or had better things to do with their time.
Jan 25th, 2014, 11:21 AM
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More than 30% getting a First hardly seems like it should be anything at all. Our grades of 0 to 4 for courses - averaged at the end of your 4 years seem to make a lot more sense. A top student would be 3.8 or above and anything below a 3.0 (all Bs) would be average - while being consistently under 1.5 will typically mean you have flunked out.
Although the grades are really mostly useful for gaining admittance to various graduate schools - medicine, law, business etc. Employers don't often look - or even check - unless it is a VERY competitive job.
Although the grades are really mostly useful for gaining admittance to various graduate schools - medicine, law, business etc. Employers don't often look - or even check - unless it is a VERY competitive job.
Jan 25th, 2014, 11:40 AM
#9
"Crib" in English almost only ever refers to the tableau of the Nativity on public display. It's sometimes used fancifully ("look at him, all tucked up in his crib"), but usually for effect. It sounds very odd in normal use>>
in Cornish english, "crib" can also mean the meal a workman takes to work to eat at lunchtime, probably of mining origin:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-02/0887709592
not many people know that.
in Cornish english, "crib" can also mean the meal a workman takes to work to eat at lunchtime, probably of mining origin:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-02/0887709592
not many people know that.
Jan 25th, 2014, 11:55 AM
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<< or had better things to do with their time >>
Ah, the golden years when you could go to university to put off getting a job. Three years of socialising, drinking and sleeping, interspersed with the odd lecture or seminar, all paid for by the state. Then teach yourself all you needed to scrape a third in 2 weeks of cramming. Those were the days.
Ah, the golden years when you could go to university to put off getting a job. Three years of socialising, drinking and sleeping, interspersed with the odd lecture or seminar, all paid for by the state. Then teach yourself all you needed to scrape a third in 2 weeks of cramming. Those were the days.
Jan 25th, 2014, 12:19 PM
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Sounds like my nephew. The university he attended reluctantly gave him a pass last year. He was nearly sent down twice.
My sons slept in a crib my father made for them. They moved to a cot at about 3months. My grandsons also slept in it.
My sons slept in a crib my father made for them. They moved to a cot at about 3months. My grandsons also slept in it.
Jan 25th, 2014, 01:07 PM
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The use of "crib" to mean one's house was common jazz musician slang in the early 1970s in the US, when I spent my careless youth in those circles.
"Cribbing" for copying lessons from someone else is also common in the US.
There are many regional dialects within Britain, and there are also regional dialects in the US and Canada, so to call American English a dialect is incorrect. The national languages of all countries that have English as an official language, including India, Australia, and others, are not dialects, but national versions of the English language, represented by the language used in the country's textbooks, newspapers, and official documents.
People in Spain and people in Mexico both speak Spanish. There are differences in the national language, but to call "Mexican" a dialect of Spanish is incorrect.
English as spoken in the US actually preserves some older features of the language that have disappeared in its homeland. For example, "fall" was used for "autumn" in England at the time the American colonies were settled. The term disappeared in its homeland but was retained across the ocean. The past participle "gotten" was also originally used in England; it's disappeared there, but also seems to be fading away in the US now.
"Cribbing" for copying lessons from someone else is also common in the US.
There are many regional dialects within Britain, and there are also regional dialects in the US and Canada, so to call American English a dialect is incorrect. The national languages of all countries that have English as an official language, including India, Australia, and others, are not dialects, but national versions of the English language, represented by the language used in the country's textbooks, newspapers, and official documents.
People in Spain and people in Mexico both speak Spanish. There are differences in the national language, but to call "Mexican" a dialect of Spanish is incorrect.
English as spoken in the US actually preserves some older features of the language that have disappeared in its homeland. For example, "fall" was used for "autumn" in England at the time the American colonies were settled. The term disappeared in its homeland but was retained across the ocean. The past participle "gotten" was also originally used in England; it's disappeared there, but also seems to be fading away in the US now.
Jan 25th, 2014, 01:23 PM
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Thanks very much to all of you for your entertaining and illuminating answers. Your replies are a wonderful help to me and I learned more than I expected.
And thank you for the distinctions between crib and cot, and the additional meanings.
@ Patrick: You were right. I have a copy of a 19th century "Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue" which includes definitions of crib to mean house or shop ("to crack a crib" = break into a house," "thimble-crib" = watchmaker's shop), and as Morgana wrote, the slang definition also meant to steal. But I'd never heard the other uses as a cushy job or a workman's lunch from Flanner and Annhig.
Thanks, again.
And thank you for the distinctions between crib and cot, and the additional meanings.
@ Patrick: You were right. I have a copy of a 19th century "Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue" which includes definitions of crib to mean house or shop ("to crack a crib" = break into a house," "thimble-crib" = watchmaker's shop), and as Morgana wrote, the slang definition also meant to steal. But I'd never heard the other uses as a cushy job or a workman's lunch from Flanner and Annhig.
Thanks, again.
Jan 25th, 2014, 02:05 PM
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Grade inflation is rampant in the US as well. In fact, a B (3.0) is now considered an insult by many students. Here is a humorous piece about grade inflation that appeared in the NY Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/op...R_AP_LO_MST_FB
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/op...R_AP_LO_MST_FB
Jan 25th, 2014, 07:30 PM
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Actually in Spain various languages are spoken. Catalan which is founded in Provençal, a dialect of the Occitan, Basque of unknown origin, and Gallego which is part of the Portuguese language group. Of course those who speak Castilian have different accents, pronunciations, and idioms.
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When we watch British TV shows, we put on closed captions, so we can understand them, especially the detective shows where they often use street slang. And then we might know what they are talking about.
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When we watch British TV shows, we put on closed captions, so we can understand them, especially the detective shows where they often use street slang. And then we might know what they are talking about.
