Give us the links to both tours. We could search both websites but you already know which tours you are considering so it would be easier if you provided the info so we can compare the itineraries.

But in general - most coach tours of the UK/Ireland try to cover too much in too little time so one spends hours stuck in a coach. Maybe these two are different/better???

You need to read the tour brochures very carefully and understand what you are getting (which is often way less than you expect).

A view of something is seeing out of the bus window as you drive by

A stop mean a 5 minute photo op in front of something

Only a visit means you go inside.

Also, be prepared for very long days sitting on a bus for hours and lots of early starts (luggage outside your door at 7 am and on the bus by 8.

Not MY idea of a vacation.

The tours we are considering are:
Insight: Britain and Ireland Explore
Romantic Britain and Ireland
Trafalgar: Britain & Ireland Panorama

I do realize that you're on a bus a lot with a tour but never having driven in the United Kingdom I don't think we'd be comfortable with driving.

This is the first time I have ever posted on a Forum. Thanks for the help

This one? http://www.insightvacations.com/us/romantic-britain-and-ireland-2012?tab=2

I'd kill myself first (only a slight exaggeration) BTW - day 9 is mis-titled. It isn't >>EDINBURGH – ST ANDREWS – HIGHLANDS<< . . . That was day 8. Day 9 should say >>NEWTONMORE - CULLODEN - INVERNESS - SPEAN BRIDGE - FT WILLIAM - OBAN<<.

And http://www.trafalgar.com/usa/britain-and-ireland-panorama-2013

If this one isn't any better, but it does give more 2 night stays. However there are some gawd awful looooong drive days.

Driving is not a problem for the vast majority of visitors (of course one couldn't dream of covering as much territory as the two tours). Not in London or other major cities, but just about everywhere else driving is often the best way to tour.

But driving or one of these ghastly coach tours aren't your only options. One can easily do a wonderful trip using trains and some buses.

What about this tour with Insight. It doesn't seem as long. http://www.insightvacations.com/ca/britain-and-ireland-explorer-2013?tab=2

Thanks for the hint about trains and buses. I think that's an option we should look at.

Well it might not seem so long, but at least 8 of these 13 days are basically driving ALL DAY from breakfast time thru to early evening. Take Day 5 - Inverness, Loch Lomond and the English Lake District, that's a journey of 300 miles, taking over 6 hours continuous driving time (not allowing for ANY stops). There's no way I would do this journey in my own car let alone stuck on a coach.

The Edinburgh > St Andrews > Inverness day is also 6 hours 'bus time' not counting seeing anything in St Andrews. There won't be time to stop in Perth/Scone Palace or at Blair Castle. Just a nasty day.

And day 4 is the same - London > Stratford > York is another 6+ hours 'butts in seats on the coach' day.

You need to decide what YOU really want to see. We have done quite a few road trips in the UK - but if yuo won;t want to drive you can do a lot by train - with an occasional day tour to see something not easy to get to.

BUY, you have torealize how long it takes to get to things and actually see anything. The last time we went from London to York we took 3 days to do it - in order to have time to spend a full day (2 nights) in Oxford and another seeing sights further north. We have also visited the Cotswolds - but we took 3 nights ( 2 full days and 2 half days) It's simply not possible to see much if you try to work on a tour bus schedule.

If you are only considering tours as a possibility, I would limit it to either Ireland, Scotland or England. I know of several good tour companies that focus only on Scotland and there should be similar such companies in Ireland and England.

I understand your reluctance in driving, but the train can get you to a variety of places and even renting a car for a few days might be less a problem than you think. You might consider doing a 10/12day tour and combine it with a train.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

I agree with fellow posters regarding opinions on the tours you mentioned.

With three weeks you could combine England with Scotland. I'd initially locate in London and do some day tours from there and then head to Edinburgh via train possibily stopping at York.In Scotland stay a few days in Edinburgh and then do one of the mnay tours offered. If interested I'd be glad to provide further information on several excellent tour companies that do tours ranging from a few days to 10/12 days.

Check out Rabbies and timberbush - both do really excellent 1 day and multi-day, small group tours in Scotland.

http://www.rabbies.com/
http://www.timberbush-tours.co.uk/

I've done Britain/Ireland tours with Trafalgar. Insight and Trafalgar are owned by the same company. What makes insight tours more expensive are (and this is a generalization) higher standard hotels, a lower cap on the number of participantgs (generally 40 vs. 48), on the whole better included meals and perhaps a few more included admission fees.

The trafalgar tour I took was most satisfactory. People object to coach tours and it is a matter of opinion. There are pros and cons...I always preferred to know that when I arrived in a new burgh, I would be driven directly to my hotel, parked right in front, go right to my room and have my bag delivered. Others, and they're entitled to their opinions, feel more satisfied doing everything on their own.

Just an opinion but there's no real reason to splurge for the extra money on insight, Trafalgar will do nicely.

As you may or may not know one of the things you get with organized coach tours is some pressure to buy optional tours which, for example, on arriving in a new burgh might ber a tourist type dinner with entertainment (say in Dublin an Irish cabaret with an included drink or two)...sometimes what is an optional on Trafalgar is included with Insight.

Finally, the best Scotland, Ireland tour I did was with CIE tours which had no optionals but everything was included. It was a great tour.

"I would be driven directly to my hotel, parked right in front, go right to my room and have my bag delivered. "

That's fine - but the main problem is the 6 or 7 hours spent on the coach before arriving at that hotel.

Don't get me wrong - tours have their place and some are quite good. But the 3 tours PJMA has asked about are awful itineraries.

I'd agree with most people above. Split your time between London and Edinburgh, taking short trips from each city.

My wife and I first travelled with Insight Vacations in 2002 when we did the Best of Ireland and Scotland tour. We absolutely loved it.

Since then we have travelled with Insight 5 more times as recently as this Fall. I have posted trip reports on all but the first tour we took.

The main differences between Insight and Trafalgar is the location of your hotels, the number of people on the tour and the leg room on the bus. With Insight the hotels tend to be more centrally located. With Insight there are never more than 40 people on the bus whereas Trafalgar would be 48 or 50. The leg room is the real selling point for me, I'm 6'3.

One point I would like to make is that this is a TOUR not a VACATION. There will be many early morning departures and some late nights. This is what you are signing up for when you tour. I am always surprised when people we have toured with complain about the early mornings. Had they done sufficient research beforehand they may well have realised they were not suited for 'touring'.

I want to add that you don't need to choose between a guided bus tour and driving yourself. There's a third option, traveling by train and bus. You can take the train to a city like Edinburgh, base there for several days and take day trips, either independently or guided ones, to places like St. Andrews and Stirling Castle. And Glasgow is only an hour by train from Edinburgh.

I love traveling by train in Europe. Spacious, comfortable seats, large windows with the scenery flowing by. (And the toilet at the end of the car.)

We've taken three Trafalgar tours-England,Scotland,Wales; England,Scotland,Wales,Rep.of Ireland; Israel.We loved all 3. We've also taken lots of cruises and a few independent trips in Europe.Good things to be said for all of them.On the motorcoach trips we did much more than we felt we could have done on our own. Someone else did the driving, planning, organizing, so we could sit back and enjoy the experience. You become somewhat like a family with the other travelers. We still are in contact,visit some friends we made on 2 of the trips. It's a good way to get an overview of a country. There were frequent stops for stretching, snacking, restrooms. Our tour guides were excellent. The advice to read carefully all the details is good advice. If you want an in depth visit to a particular place, a motorcoach tour is not for you.But if you want to see lots of intetresting things in a two or three week timespan, then it's something to consider.

Actually the small coach tours that janisj recommended ( Rabbies & Timberbush Tours) do exactly the same with much smaller groups and a less exacting itinerary.

Two years ago we were on Skye and wanted to take the small ferry from Kylerhea to Gleneig. When we got to the other side there was a Timberbush group of about 6/8 people waiting to crossover to Kylerhea. This would have been impossible for a large tour bus. IMO this is what really distinquishes a large group from a small group tour...you can get to places that large groups simply can't without losing any of the advantages of a Trafalgar, CIE or Insight tour.

Thinking maybe OP has lost interest.

We are coming from Canada. It does seem as though a coach tour could give us an "overview" of the countries. The early mornings on a coach tour would not be a problem for us. Thank you for the names of the small coach tours. I will research them. There are definite savings from Trafalgar and Insight if you book by the end of December. Wonderful to have seasoned travellers share their wealth of information with us.

PJMA. I hope I am not too late! I have conducted over 450 guided tours in Ireland & Great Britain - 15000 Americans, Aussies etc.. Do not under any circumstances do a guided tour anywhere in Europe where the tour operator sells optional extra excursions. They are a rip off. You will be bombarded on a Trafalgar Tour & Insight with these optional excursions & your tour cost will increase by about 30% on tour. Not only that they ruin the itinerary that you have paid for because you get rushed around. Check the itinerary & you will find that there are only about 30% of nights with dinner included & that means an optional excursion for every night with no dinner rushing to the hotel to leave on the excursion. On tour review sites this is still the biggest complaint. They are a rip off believe me. Try CIE tours - they do not sell optional excursions on tour & are cheaper than Trafalgar. No I never worked for CIE by the way! Good luck!

While I do agree for the most part about the virtues of CIE for Irish, Scottish and English tours, the language regarding optional excursions is a bit harsh. The biggest problem with optional tours is so many participants on group tours are not briefed by whomever books the tours for them of their existance and then are hit with making the selection say on the second day out on tour and it is somewhat unexpected. But not all are rip offs. Some are fun especially as you have bonded with other members of the group. they are standard type excurxsions for the most part that are offered commercially in almost every tourist place in the world.

They can be tours of castles, say. It is up to you to decide whether you want to participate. To charactgerize all of them as rip offs, like I said, is somewhat harsh.

That is not to say some feel that way but I've been on a few Trafalgar tours and didn't feel that way. Sure I can visit an Irish pub probably somewhat cheaper than my tour does on an optional excursion. I don't question that. But the convenience of just going downstairs in the hotel, hopping on the coach, doing the optional, getting back on our tour bus with our tour group being driven back to the hotel might be worth the slight extra cost.

After rambling trough, the point is to be aware of the existance of these optonals and do them if you want. If not, there's always the hotel bar.

Did you end up deciding on a tour?

I'm thinking on going on one either 2014/2015...

I've got three tours I'm trying to choose.....would anyone be able to provide some pointers?

1. CIE (British and Ireland Grandeur)
http://www.cietours.com/world/escorted_tour/2013/british_and_irish_grandeur_15d/default.aspx -- only issue is that it does not visit oxford or strathford or cliffs of moher (if I book additional day tours via Premium Tours...there is no pickup from Doubletree West End....and no option to book for post-tour accommodation via CIE).
2. Globus (13 day Shannon to the Thames) http://www.globaljourneys.com.au/coach_tours/uk/uk/globus/gu.php - issue is having to book additional day tours (which I may do through Premium Tours.....for oxfrod)
3. Insight vacations (22 day Britain & Ireland Discover) http://www.globaljourneys.com.au/coach_tours/uk/uk/insight/b959.php (only issue is not getting a tour of London itelf)

I am comfortable sitting for hours on a coach, as long as the guide is awesome....as in thorough description of places we visit/history/ etc.

Thanks!!

"I am comfortable sitting for hours on a coach, as long as the guide is awesome....as in thorough description of places we visit/history/ etc."

1) you can't guarantee the guide will be 'awesome' or even passable. So what if you pull the short straw and get their one totally crap guide?

2) Hours on a coach all day every day means you aren't visiting/seeing anything most of the time - just hours peering through the side windows.

but never mind - from your posts it seems clear you want a tour (three of you - right?) . To give you one example of how dreadful some bits of these tours are - on the third link they are traveling from Orkney to Ullapool to Skye to Loch Lomond to Glasgow . . . in two days. That is nutty.

Tell us a bit about who you are (ages, nationalities, physical limitations, etc) and we can maybe make suggestions of better tours or other ideas. Not all tours are awful - but some truly are. And the cheaper, large coach tours are generally pretty nasty.

My post was for Sophie2135 who topped this older thread. I'll copy my entry and add it to her other thread.