Bilbo's wedding in Puglia, what could go wrong?
Oct 7th, 2013, 09:04 AM
#1
Bilbo's wedding in Puglia, what could go wrong?
Mrs Bilbo and I were sat on the Nile at Luxor on a steel barge around Christmas 2012 when I explained that for tax purposes and after being together for 31 years we should get married. After a debate we agreed that if we spent a bit of the tax saving we could have a good party and that we could even fit in a wine tasting, some cooking and drag some of our best friends and family to the end of Europe for a party. It sounded like such an easy plan.
Once back in the UK we investigated and began looking for a site, a date and a legal process that gets us married. Since Italy is one of the few countries that does not require any residency to issue a marriage certificate and because we had enjoyed a fantastic holiday in the the area we chose to wed in Puglia. So we also began looking for a Masseria in Puglia, a beautiful, friendly place in the heel of Italy.
In my years of working with different cultures around the world I've learnt that working with Italians is a noisy affair, often spectacular but they normally make one major mistake. Let's see if you can spot this one.
If the legal process bores you look away now.....
The UK/Italian marriage process,
1) go to your local registrar to prove you are free to marry (wait for the bans to be read for 6 weeks), 2) get a lawyer to confirm who you are, 3) get the documents sent to the Foreign and Commonwealth office, 4) get the F&G to confirm your lawyer is a lawyer, 5) get the documents sent to Italy, 6) get them translated and their translation's veracity sworn in a court, 7) deliver all of this plus a bunch of money to the Italian town hall of your choice. Then you can 8) book the wedding venue (if it is still available), 9) bank transfer the bill for the hire of the wedding venue and 10) send them a receipt proving that you paid the bill and 11) finally provide all the documents that prove who the witnesses are.
All this has to take place inside 6 months or you have to start again. If you are in any doubt I'd hire a wedding planner (starts about Euro500) but actually we found everyone wanted to help us succeed and went out of their way to help us. Still if the date and venue is a real must then you need someone on the ground holding your place open for you. Not speaking the language does seem to have been a problem.
Once back in the UK we investigated and began looking for a site, a date and a legal process that gets us married. Since Italy is one of the few countries that does not require any residency to issue a marriage certificate and because we had enjoyed a fantastic holiday in the the area we chose to wed in Puglia. So we also began looking for a Masseria in Puglia, a beautiful, friendly place in the heel of Italy.
In my years of working with different cultures around the world I've learnt that working with Italians is a noisy affair, often spectacular but they normally make one major mistake. Let's see if you can spot this one.
If the legal process bores you look away now.....
The UK/Italian marriage process,
1) go to your local registrar to prove you are free to marry (wait for the bans to be read for 6 weeks), 2) get a lawyer to confirm who you are, 3) get the documents sent to the Foreign and Commonwealth office, 4) get the F&G to confirm your lawyer is a lawyer, 5) get the documents sent to Italy, 6) get them translated and their translation's veracity sworn in a court, 7) deliver all of this plus a bunch of money to the Italian town hall of your choice. Then you can 8) book the wedding venue (if it is still available), 9) bank transfer the bill for the hire of the wedding venue and 10) send them a receipt proving that you paid the bill and 11) finally provide all the documents that prove who the witnesses are.
All this has to take place inside 6 months or you have to start again. If you are in any doubt I'd hire a wedding planner (starts about Euro500) but actually we found everyone wanted to help us succeed and went out of their way to help us. Still if the date and venue is a real must then you need someone on the ground holding your place open for you. Not speaking the language does seem to have been a problem.
Oct 7th, 2013, 10:03 AM
#2
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It's pretty damn bourgeois to get married after only 31 years of living in sin - but it's handy when, as is inevitable at our age, one of you needs to visit the other in hospital.
But why put yourself to all this? Get on a plane to the US West Coast, drive across whichever state line to Nevada, stop at the first County Jail and ask for a judge's secretary (there's usually a courtroom handily placed to the side of the jail.) No need for residency: from spotting the sign to getting spliced took us about 90 mins (most spent walking round town to find an ATM to pay the judge)
The wine back in Oregon or California's better than in Puglia, it's all perfectly legal as long as you don't actually enter the US intending to get married (and no-one's going to interrogate a pair of middle aged Brits saying they want a shopaholic weekend), and the whole ceremony costs about $98 (including a bottle of NY state "champagne", half a pound of Nova Scotia smoked salmon and a box of Ritz crackers from the nearest Walmart). Whether you want your chums' pissup in California or Italy (or, god helpus, in Las Vegas), it's a hell of a lot less hassle to do the legal stuff in Nevada.
They even speak a language some might mistake for English.
But why put yourself to all this? Get on a plane to the US West Coast, drive across whichever state line to Nevada, stop at the first County Jail and ask for a judge's secretary (there's usually a courtroom handily placed to the side of the jail.) No need for residency: from spotting the sign to getting spliced took us about 90 mins (most spent walking round town to find an ATM to pay the judge)
The wine back in Oregon or California's better than in Puglia, it's all perfectly legal as long as you don't actually enter the US intending to get married (and no-one's going to interrogate a pair of middle aged Brits saying they want a shopaholic weekend), and the whole ceremony costs about $98 (including a bottle of NY state "champagne", half a pound of Nova Scotia smoked salmon and a box of Ritz crackers from the nearest Walmart). Whether you want your chums' pissup in California or Italy (or, god helpus, in Las Vegas), it's a hell of a lot less hassle to do the legal stuff in Nevada.
They even speak a language some might mistake for English.
Oct 7th, 2013, 12:23 PM
#7
Around Puglia are spread many Masseria (old fortified farms, converted into B&B and hotels), so I used Google maps to identify lots of them and after surfing and surfing I found the top 12 that would satisfy our need for 25 ish guests exclusively having the use of the space for 4 days with a pool. I then asked them all to quote and offered the best options to Mrs Bilbo, who with great care selected a completely different one. In this case Masseria Provenzani. http://www.masseriaprovenzani.com/
After a quick check of trans-european transport links we could see that this was a feasible place for our friends to gather we sent off the invitations on the 1st of April and amazingly 22 people want to come!
So the trip
Sunday; bus from our house in Leeds to LBA, flight to Rome (lunch at the station bar) and after 2 hours closeted with some friendly Mormons from CA we flew down to Brindisi. Brindisi airport is pretty small but perfectly formed and we walk straight through, caught the bus to Lecce along with 6 Italian girls speaking Italian with Irish accents (those nuns I guess), pretty soon we are in Lecce and after 20 minutes we are lost in the centre of the “passagiato”. Luckily tourist info actually know where our B&B is so we finally check into B&B Azzurretta http://www.hostelecce.com/italiano/ the owner is so keen for us to enjoy our holiday and he gives us loads of ideas of things to do etc. Supper at Corte dei Pandolfi http://www.cortedeipandolfi.com/ which is a bit of a disaster (they gave Mrs Bilbo's dish to another table) but perfectly pleasant with the sounds of Opera in a Roman Theatre washing over us.
After a quick check of trans-european transport links we could see that this was a feasible place for our friends to gather we sent off the invitations on the 1st of April and amazingly 22 people want to come!
So the trip
Sunday; bus from our house in Leeds to LBA, flight to Rome (lunch at the station bar) and after 2 hours closeted with some friendly Mormons from CA we flew down to Brindisi. Brindisi airport is pretty small but perfectly formed and we walk straight through, caught the bus to Lecce along with 6 Italian girls speaking Italian with Irish accents (those nuns I guess), pretty soon we are in Lecce and after 20 minutes we are lost in the centre of the “passagiato”. Luckily tourist info actually know where our B&B is so we finally check into B&B Azzurretta http://www.hostelecce.com/italiano/ the owner is so keen for us to enjoy our holiday and he gives us loads of ideas of things to do etc. Supper at Corte dei Pandolfi http://www.cortedeipandolfi.com/ which is a bit of a disaster (they gave Mrs Bilbo's dish to another table) but perfectly pleasant with the sounds of Opera in a Roman Theatre washing over us.
Oct 7th, 2013, 12:28 PM
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Bilbo, big congrats - how brilliant!!! Can't wait to read more.
And - sorry to be boring - would also welcome more details on steps 2-6 since in the eyes of our local town hall, we're still living in sin as we haven't had the energy to work out what we need to do to get a 'translated & legalized' marriage certificate. And have no idea what if any implications this could have
And - sorry to be boring - would also welcome more details on steps 2-6 since in the eyes of our local town hall, we're still living in sin as we haven't had the energy to work out what we need to do to get a 'translated & legalized' marriage certificate. And have no idea what if any implications this could have
Oct 7th, 2013, 12:52 PM
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Congratulations, Bilboburgler!
>>I suspect there might be a problem with the ring! ;^) <<
Well done, ParisAmsterdam. I want to know if a bunch of unexpected Dwarves turned up - or perhaps a dragon?
Lee Ann
>>I suspect there might be a problem with the ring! ;^) <<
Well done, ParisAmsterdam. I want to know if a bunch of unexpected Dwarves turned up - or perhaps a dragon?
Lee Ann
Oct 7th, 2013, 11:09 PM
#14
Caroline, I think the details are different if you are an Italian resident, for example you have your own "commune" who can halp. You will still need some sort of proof of "no Impediment" but that would be the bans. The UK gov website is pretty good on this subject.
https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad
https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad
Oct 7th, 2013, 11:14 PM
#15
Caroline, I found tribunal swearing translators through these guys http://www.guidatraduzioni.it
Oct 7th, 2013, 11:23 PM
#16
2) get a lawyer to confirm who you are
In the UK you give them money, seems to work, they make you swear an antiquated series of words and fill in a form. I guess you do the same in Italy
3) the post
4) The F&C (sorry about typo) don't seem to use obvious tools like the Law society lists but probably seek out dusty books in their vaults so expect 4 weeks delay.
5) Post to italy from the UK takes 1 day to Milan central and then 2 weeks to any part of the country (I know I sent many trackable bits of post there doing this and 10 working days was the average) you can spend £5 for this process at the PO or £45 it makes little difference, luckily the italians seem to accept email copies as some sort of "holder" until the final document turns up
6) I found tribunal swearing translators through these guys http://www.guidatraduzioni.it Should cost about Euro30 for a couple of pages but then there may be stamps required at the Tribunal which can reach Euro150
In the UK you give them money, seems to work, they make you swear an antiquated series of words and fill in a form. I guess you do the same in Italy
3) the post
4) The F&C (sorry about typo) don't seem to use obvious tools like the Law society lists but probably seek out dusty books in their vaults so expect 4 weeks delay.
5) Post to italy from the UK takes 1 day to Milan central and then 2 weeks to any part of the country (I know I sent many trackable bits of post there doing this and 10 working days was the average) you can spend £5 for this process at the PO or £45 it makes little difference, luckily the italians seem to accept email copies as some sort of "holder" until the final document turns up
6) I found tribunal swearing translators through these guys http://www.guidatraduzioni.it Should cost about Euro30 for a couple of pages but then there may be stamps required at the Tribunal which can reach Euro150
Oct 8th, 2013, 06:37 AM
#19
Monday; after breakfast at ChinChin in the main square (after teaching the waiting staff how to make tea the British way) we go see where the people of Lecce get married, registered etc. Ex Conservatorio di Sant'Anna http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_Cons...di_Sant%27Anna
and start to visit some of the beautiful churches, shops and streets to get to know our way around. The place is a warren, a very beautiful warren, with so much deeply carved golden stone, Mrs Bilbo thinks the corbels holding up balconies are particularly fine and I agree that some of them are very big and deeply carved. Lunch was panini picked up somewhere while supper was at Locanda Arcu Te Pratu which is a small indoor restaurant with a large outdoor seating area, the place is maybe too tourist orientated and Mrs Bilbo's food was not fully hot.
Tuesday; we visit more of Lecce including Santa Crocce, the park, a good supermarket, a street market and the Castle. These provide us with little gifts for our guests. A burst of heavy rain had us running into Povero http://www.enogastronomiapovero.com/ for lunch which proved a great choice with food mainly from the cold meat and cheese selection and good local wine. We also fitted in a free wine tasting at Il Lupo and they had some fine wine for our gift bags. That evening we met up with the event manager (Ylenia and Michele) http://www.yltourcongressi.it/ of the Masseria Provenzani in a bar in the main square, to talk through the coming event and make sure everything is perfect and I think Mrs Bilbo begins to believe that this thing is going to work. They recommend a couple of places to feed our guests in Lecce in a few days time and (since we had tried Locanda Arcu Te Pratu already) we chose the other, Locanda Rivoli, for supper and again it was not great (just disorganised). Ylenia offers to ring the registry office manager (her friend) just to remind her that the crazy Brits are coming.
and start to visit some of the beautiful churches, shops and streets to get to know our way around. The place is a warren, a very beautiful warren, with so much deeply carved golden stone, Mrs Bilbo thinks the corbels holding up balconies are particularly fine and I agree that some of them are very big and deeply carved. Lunch was panini picked up somewhere while supper was at Locanda Arcu Te Pratu which is a small indoor restaurant with a large outdoor seating area, the place is maybe too tourist orientated and Mrs Bilbo's food was not fully hot.
Tuesday; we visit more of Lecce including Santa Crocce, the park, a good supermarket, a street market and the Castle. These provide us with little gifts for our guests. A burst of heavy rain had us running into Povero http://www.enogastronomiapovero.com/ for lunch which proved a great choice with food mainly from the cold meat and cheese selection and good local wine. We also fitted in a free wine tasting at Il Lupo and they had some fine wine for our gift bags. That evening we met up with the event manager (Ylenia and Michele) http://www.yltourcongressi.it/ of the Masseria Provenzani in a bar in the main square, to talk through the coming event and make sure everything is perfect and I think Mrs Bilbo begins to believe that this thing is going to work. They recommend a couple of places to feed our guests in Lecce in a few days time and (since we had tried Locanda Arcu Te Pratu already) we chose the other, Locanda Rivoli, for supper and again it was not great (just disorganised). Ylenia offers to ring the registry office manager (her friend) just to remind her that the crazy Brits are coming.
Oct 8th, 2013, 06:43 AM
#20
Sorry guys "Not speaking the language does seem to have been a problem." should have read "Not speaking the language does NOT seem to have been a problem." in fact Google translate seems to have worked fine with those Commune staff who do not speak English, while my Italian has developed almost to the level of a bumbling idiot but seemed to work pretty well at moments of crisis.
