"Would love some tips and ideas about pros and cons of the pay one price and they take care of the driving and hotel arrangements versus the do it yourself for a first timer trip."

Those aren't your only 2 options. You can do it yourselves and still take a few local day tours. An easy way to see a lot w/o having to rent a car and drive yourselves (if in fact you don't want to drive)

Where in Wales is the family from? That will make a difference where to go and how to get there.

Also - how many days are you looking at?

Agree, you can easily plan this trip and get around independently! Especially with our help Can you give us a bit more info? How long do you have? Where in Wales is the family from?

London can easily fill a week with a couple day trips. If you would like a tour try www.walks.com for their excellent day trips via public transport. I would avoid those coach tours from London that try to cram 3-4 places into one day.

Wales is accessible by train, depending on the location.

Sounds like a fun trip to plan!

Family is from the Cardiff area. Four generations ago, so no known ties, but would love to see the area. Very interested in the mining history. We can take at least 10 days and as long as two weeks. Would love to also see London and parts of England, but don't know what to see! I'm 45, mom is 70. We are both interested in history of any kind. She is somewhat limited in walking so no hiking trips this time... We would most likely need a day here and there to just relax from the previous days travels...

Thanks so much for any and all help!

have afternoon tea at the Georgian Restaurant inside of the department store Harrods in London. I wrote about it on my travel blog theblondebackpacker.com if you want to check it out. Thanks

sorry, that didn't have anything to do with mining history, but it is fun and seems like a great thing for a mother/daughter trip

For Cardiff, have you checked out

http://www.visitcardiff.com/
http://www.visitcardiff.com/things-to-do/big-pit-national-coal-museum-p9641

pigfeathers [great screen-name BTW]

it is very easy to get from London to Cardiff - there are frequent fast trains from Paddington which you can book in advance to get cheaper tickets.

you could spend a few days in Cardiff, then rent a car and pootle about south Wales - the areas around Tenby and the Brecon beacons are both lovely and could easily fill a week.

then get the train back to London and spend a few days there before going home.

Two places which could help you get a feel for the history of Wales, especially the mining industry are Big Pit at Blaenafon and St Fagan's National History Museum, which is outside Cardiff. Both are parts of the national museum and free to enter. Details are at http://www.museumwales.ac.uk.

Both are accessible by public transport, but you would probably find a car useful for touring the area.

Hi Pigfeathers (love the name). I don't have specific itinerary ideas, but wanted to comment because your situation mirrors mine so well. My mom and I spent two weeks in England nearly two years ago, when I was 46 and she was 70. She is also a bit limited in walking and stamina, but full of curiosity and game to try things.

We found a travel style that suited us well. We stayed in only two bases - Winchester (because a friend lives there, and it's lovely), and a little village in Wiltshire called Sherrington. We took the train from Winchester to London and Windsor, and rented a car for our week in Wiltshire.

The train was easy for my mom, but we weren't handling luggage. The only time I worried was when we had to make a change in Slough and there were stairs involved. Look at the National Rail site if you plan to travel by train - they have accessibility information about each station.

We loved both accommodations - the first was a real English pub with rooms, and the second, in Wiltshire, was a thatched cottage. We spent our days exploring at a leisurely pace, and our evenings either having a dinner out or relaxing in our homey little cottage. It was perfect. We got to see and do a lot without overtaxing my mom or trying my patience. It was a wonderful mother-daughter trip. Just stick to what you know in your gut will be enjoyable for both of you, and don't try to overdo it. Savor those moments with your mom, and know that it means just as much to her!

Thank you all! I love the idea of a few days in London then a train to Cardiff.

Is renting a car and pootling around pretty easy in Wales? I have not been out of the states and no nothing about international car rental and driving in Wales.

And any suggestions on lodging near Paddington and in Cardiff? (I usually stay at either Holiday Inn Express or Marriott stateside, I like the free breakfast!)

I do have a friend who is a travel agent who I know can help here, but it's nice to talk to other people. Thank you so much. Been putting this trip off for about 5 years, but just know without a shadow of a doubt that it will happen either in August or September this year. Had a slight health scare with Mom and will not put this off any longer!

Thanks for the comments on my screen name. It's our farm name here in Northern California, we raise pigs, chickens and turkeys sometimes, so the name pigfeathers just seemed natural!

Just wanted to comment on the London hotel...padding ton is not a great choice. It is not really convenient to most sites and the area doesn't have as much charm. I believe there are holiday inns in better locations closer to the river. If you are worries about getting from heathrow to your hotel we use www.justairports.com for affordable transfers...or the tube, which isn't that bad if you know where to change to avoid stairs. The heathrow express is expensive and not convenient to some of the better areas to stay.

Swansea is the exact region family is from. Nanny left Wales at the age of 17 in the early 1900's. So... fly into London, stay ???? Then train to Wales and stay in Cardiff or ?? and how to rent a car?

Swansea is a city but not a majorly large one. Is it Swansea itself or a village nearby? The countryside around Swansea is delightful and would be a lovely area in which to stay.

if you are arriving on an early morning flight into Heathrow, you could get the horribly over-priced Heathrow express into Paddington, and then get the train straight from there to Cardiff.

book a nice hotel in Cardiff for a couple of nights and then pick up a car and set off for your Welsh trip down memory lane.

the train journey will be a good use of time when you may be jet-lagged and by the time you get to Cardiff your hotel room should be ready if you need a nap!

then you can spend a few days in London at the end of the trip which will keep all of your London nights together and put you in the right place for flying home.

annhig's suggestion is excellent. I personally think getting all the major travel out of the way in one go is best. Get all the way to Cardiff on day one and you will have uninterrupted time in London at the end.

Another option -- instead of going into London (or transferring to any train) you could take a National Express coach right from LHR to Cardff. This would be the easiest w/ least schlepping. But I'd probably take the train which would be more comfortable after an overnight flight.

I like the catch the coach at the airport idea on the major travel day. Sounds easy. But if we wanted to do the train, how would be do that? Is there a train station at the airport?

And as far as car rental goes in Wales, can that be done right in Cardiff?

I've got my mom diggin around on ancestry.com to get more info. Nanny left Wales at 17 cause the town she was from "ran out of coal". She was from Swansea and somehow tied to the Rotger family. Were hunting down more info.

And any suggestions as to where to stay in London?

We used www.autoeurope.com when we visited England and Wales in 2007; they have offices in Cardiff.

From what annhig wrote, it looks like you would have to take something like the Heathrow Express to Paddington Station in London, then take the train from there to Cardiff.

Lee Ann

Sorry, I hit submit too soon. What is your lodging budget?

Lee Ann

Most of the posters on this board make all their own travel arrangements on the internet--making plane reservations, investigating transportation options and making hotel reservations, etc. It's part of the fun.

Renting a car over the internet is easy. You can reserve with Europcar or Auto Europe and pick the car up wherever you like. If I'm renting a car at a big city, I prefer to pick up at the airport. Driving on the left side of the road in a large city intimidates me. It's easier when I can drive from the airport.

I think we are often intimidated by the idea of driving on the opposite side of the road from what we're used to, but it's really not that big a problem. You will get used to it quite fast.

Be aware that most rental cars in Europe have standard transmissions and that if you really need an automatic transmission, it will cost considerably more.

As said the driving issues will be, manual gear stick, drive on the left (so wheel is on the right, pedals don't change round but the gerar stick does), roads in Wales are narrow. None of this should worry you and your mind will compensate. The one thing it will not do is remind you to drive on the Left. So that is what your mother has to do "drive on the right".

Did I mention roundabouts...?

yes, you can catch a train called the Heathrow Express to Paddington, then the train to Cardiff from Paddington.

but the direct coach from Heathrow to Cardiff looks like a much better idea, unless you really dislike coach travel.

We spent two weeks in Cardiff 4-5 years ago. Lovely city. We took the bus from Victoria Station to Cardiff for 9Pounds each. We bought the tickets early and on sale. We were in London already. In Cardiff, the bus station is beside the rail station, basically. Once in Cardiff, there are several things to see: The castle is interesting. The covered open air market is great. There are some well preserved Roman bath ruins a few miles out. Drop by the tourist office to see about bus trip there and back. Swan Sea was a nice bus one day trip. If you drink beer, try a Brains beer. Makes Guinness look pale.

Roundabouts and stick shifts are not an issue. (I can drive a 47 Ford tractor on a side sloped hill, and got hopelessly lost looking for Hyannis Port in a roundabout, I know their evils!) and thanks for the car rental sites.

I'm discovering alot with all the suggestions here and really appreciate the details.

Sounds like I'm leaning towards to bus from Heathrow to Cardiff, rent a car, then rail back to London to stay ??

jkbritt, did you like where you stayed in Cardiff? Did you rent a car while there or were you able to see it all from busses and trains? Fodors has some nice places they recommend. And I will be sure to try the Brains, I love a good dark beer.

Question, do hoilday inn free nights with points apply overseas? We accumulate them quickly. I'd love to stay close to the $100/ night range, give or take $50 depending on location, but if necessary we can inch a wee bit higher. Looks like we may be able to hit that in Cardiff but London might be another chunk of egg money.

AFAIK all the major chains have loyalty programs that work in the UK - including Holiday Inn.

I'd try to use your HI points in London because that is where rooms cost the most. Out in the countryside of Wales you'll probably stay in B&Bs which are very inexpensive.

I wasn't able to post yesterday so I'm trying again.
It is worth you finding out exactly where Granny was from as Swansea today doesn't have any pits. It is likely they may have lived outside Swansea(but when recounted in a country a long way away, translated into Swansea). The Swansea valley however and many other valleys around here had many pits.People didn't always live where they worked. Its part of history that some walked a long way every day to get to work.
This is important in deciding whether you need a car to make best use of your visit.

Frances, we are in the process of attempting to find out anything we can about the family history, but just being in the area will be very special and something to hang a bit of history to in the future. I wonder if there are any places there in the Swansea area that have genealogical records that we might be able to peruse....

Have you tried the census records on-line?

Hi Pigfeathers,
I live in Cardiff and would be happy to help if I can.

Transport from London is quite straight forward.
Either. Hire a car for the duration,
Get the train from Paddington around 1 hr 45
Get national express bus- http://www.nationalexpress.com/home.aspx
or Megabus- http://uk.megabus.com

Car out of london can be a drag due to the M4 traffic.
Train from Paddington can be very reasonable depending upon the time and day you travel. National express is good value and megabus is cheap as chips.
All stop in Cardiff City Center.

You can easily arrange this yourself. Cardiff is full of hotels for every budget all in close proximity to the bus and train station.

Swansea is 1 hour away by car/bus and less than that by train.

As Frances mentioned, Swansea is a City and did not specifically have pits, although the swansea Valley and surrounding areas did. There were hundreds.

I found this list of a few collieries in the area, its not definitive but may help.
Abercrave Colliery, Henrwydd
Birchgrove Colliery
Bath, H.& Son (Copper Ore Mining), Tyrllandwr
Cwmllynfell Colliery, Ystradgynlais
Llansamlet Colliery, Gwernllynwith, Llansamlet
Primrose Colliery, Pontardawe
Vivian & Sons Colliery, Hafod
Waunclawdd Colliery, Ystalyfera

Do you have any other place names to go on?

Do you know where in Cardiff the family are from?

Within cardiff, Bus travel is quite good.
Depending where you are going of course.
You can get an all day ticket for £3.20 and use all cardiff busses all day.

Lots to see here, cardiff bay is the old docks area that has in recent years been regenerated, the home of the Welsh government is here. We also have the Millenium Center which is a world class theatre, used for many things from Musicals to ballet to opera.
White water rafting centre, international pool, sailing and speedboat trips, Norwegian church and even a new Dr Who exhibition. All within a bout 2 square miles, not to mention pubs and restaurants.

Cardiff center has Cardiff castle, National museum of Wales, Cardiff University is here and some beautiful shopping arcades with individual shops as well as the new St David's 2 shopping centre which covers most things.

The home of Welsh Rugby Millennium stadium, stands in the middle of town next to the river Taff, wedged in between offices restaurants and pubs.
Probably not all for you but worth mentioning just the same.

Cardiff has a new Library where you could possibly do some research, resource here is electronic but still has newspapers from a very long time ago viewable on screen. Staff here and also at the national museum of wales are very knowledgable as you would expect and may be able to help you.
We also have Llandaff Cathedral, Castle Coch, Caerphilly Castle and the Museum of Welsh life at St Fagans.

Let me know if you need any specific local information, don't dismiss arranging this trip by yourself, it can be done quite easily.

One thing that I would recommend is probably best to hire a car for the areas outside of the city especially if your heading up through the Welsh valleys.

Good luck

Muck

Just checked the Cardiff and area telephone directory, but there are no Rotgers there at all.
Is that spelling correct?
Or no one stayed behind

Muck

Pigfeathers your grandmother's birth certificate will tell you where she was born and she may well have kept this safe. Alternately she may have had a family bible which will have room in the first few pages for such information about her family. This is likely to be a big heavy book covered in black leather and possibly with a metallic clasp to keep it closed.
If you cannot find any of these perhaps you would like to give us your grandmothers name and date of birth and if possible the manes of her parents. If you don't know these its very possible that the eldest of your grandmother's children bear the names of their grandparents.
I also searched Rotgers and came up with this as a christian name with connections to Germany and the low countries. It is very possible that this was misspelt at some time. Maybe it is Rogers?

Forgot to mention that if your Gran sailed to the States she may well have done so out of Liverpool. Liverpool has a fascinating Maritime Museum.

FYI, we stayed at the Holiday Inn Mayfair (London) on points (25000/nt). One of the better uses / values for points that I've found. Excellent location.

I understand the immigration officers in NY tended to write down people's names as they felt they should be spelled. It may be that Rogers or Rodgers was changed into Rotgers.

Have to recommend Hay-On-Wye and Hereford.

http://www.hay-on-wye.co.uk/info/hay-on-wye.htm

Good luck!

Ethel Williams was my mothers grandma. We know very little about her except that she lived in Swansea. We do not even know if she had brothers and sisters as she came from Wales alone. I am attempting to get some dates and birthyear. We know she was somehow tied to the Rotger (sp) family, a very wealthy family who had a castle in Germany that was destroyed in the war. (Again, looking for more details.) The mystery is how was Nanny (Ethel) tied to the Rotger (checking on the spelling..) family and why did she leave Wales alone as a 17 year old girl, and had ties to her "Aunt" Lilly Rotger.... We don't know how this piece of the puzzle fits.

Muck, can you recommend a few reasonably priced B&B's that would be easy to access the public transit and would give us a good stay there in Cardiff? OR have reasonable parking rates if we do rent a car for the time there.

There are hotels in the city centre that have parking and are reasonably priced providing there is not a concert or rugby match on.
Try:-
Park Inn by Radisson (city centre location <10 mins walk from station)
Radisson Blue-(city centre location <10 mins walk from station)
Holiday Inn- Overlooking Cardiff Castle and the Millennium stadium <5 mins walk to station)
There is a Marriott, Hilton, or the Angel Hotel.
There are plenty of others too.

If it's specifically smaller B&B you want you might like to google Cathedral road B&B.
Cathedral rd is very close to the city centre usually there is parking available.
Cathedral road is around 10-15 mins walk from the station.

If you want budget hotels, try ibis, travelodge, and I believe we have a Premier Travel Inn too.
These may have limited parking.

There are plenty of car parks in Cardiff but they are not exactly cheap, although your hotel may have a deal at one of them.

The best B&B around the centre are on Cathedral road.
Muck

Just did a lengthy reply and it didn't show up !!!!!!!!!

Will re do later !

Damn computers will never catch on.

oh it did...................... weird !!

Pigfeathers, I am also considering a jaunt into Wales from London next June.

To set the mood, I recently watched the film HOW GREEN WAS MY VALLEY which won the 1941 Academy Award for Best Picture. Stars Walter Pigeon, Maureen O’Hara, Roddy McDowell, produced by Darryl F. Zanuck. The film “tells the story of the Morgans, a close, hard-working Welsh family at the turn of the twentieth century in the South Wales coalfield at the heart of the South Wales Valleys. It chronicles a socio-economic way of life passing and the family unit disintegrating.”

I think that you and your mum would enjoy the movie. Have a great time…

The book has been a required read for my family passed on to all generations!

Roots update. Nanny was born in Cardiff, Jan 5, 1894 to William Edward Williams and Mary Jane (Tarr) Williams. So now when we come to Cardiff we can do some digging!! Any suggestions on where to look for family information would be great!

you could start here:

http://www.glamarchives.gov.uk/

or here:

http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.asp?nav=2%2C2867%2C2903%2C5813

[all birth certificates issued in Cardiff from 1837]

or here:

http://www.valeofglamorgan.gov.uk/living/life_in_the_community/registry_-_life_events/family_history/census.aspx

good luck!

I can't find an Ethel williams's birth record. However I have found the 1901 Census for an Ethel Williams who was then 7 years of age. Her mother was called Mary but the head of the household was called Silas and was a brass founder. There were several children Ada aged 16, Agnes aged 12, Arthur 21 , Hiram 20, Jack 15 and Maud 9. They lived in Canton which is a suburb to the west of central Cardiff.
Is it possible that William Edward died and Mary Jane remarried? There were no children younger than Ethel.

Much of canton still lives on largely unchanged but with a large proportion of people from everywhere else in the world.

I am not sure how you are searching but in addition to the great sites listed by annhig, you might like to go to www.findmypast.co.uk. It has links to pretty much every record you could need.

More information please !!

Muck

I travel on my own each year to Wales, fly in to London or Birmingham and take the train to Hereford or Cardiff. Local bus service is good and quite easy. Public travel by train can be booked ahead though unless you hit a football holiday you won't have much problem. One note is that in some stations there are steps to negotiate. You can research the individual stations online. The train passes are good, but not especially money savers I find.
Of course you will walk more this way so if that is a problem for your Mom then you might want to stick to larger cities where you could take the tour bus around town. I am not a fan of those tours you mention because you don't tend to meet the local folks, and the people of Wales are just so wonderful I would hate for you to miss them. Hope this helps!

"and the people of Wales are just so wonderful "

indeed we are