dreamon

We will be staying in the Val Bregaglia and would like to take the most scenic journey from there to Luzern. I appreciate that 'most scenic' is a subjective opinion but am interested in yours.

The two key routes offered by SBB seem to be bus to St Moritz then Bernina Express northwards towards Luzern or via Andermatt towards Luzern. The latter is a longer journey by a couple of hours.

If we join the Bernina Express at St Moritz, have we missed the best bits? Should we travel to Poschiavo by bus and join the route there?

I imagine that it's all very beautiful so I feel like I'm splitting hairs but we won't be back in Switzerland for some time and want to make the most of our short stay. Any thoughts?

Lastly, if we wait to reserve seats until we're actually enroute (i.e. not in advance), are we likely to miss out on seats in the special rail coaches with the big windows? Travelling in June.

Thank you.

dreamon

Have just noticed on SBB that the bus to Poschiavo goes via St Moritz anyway. We could travel to Tirano via Colico but very long journey. Suspect I really am doing perfection analysis and any one of these routes would be wonderful.

Dukey1

The spectacular scenery on the Bernina is well BELOW both Chur and St. Moritz.

The rail site you SHOULD be looking at is the one for the Rhaetian Railway which runs the Bernina and here is the link to that website:

www.rhb.ch

Ingo

The most beautiful scenery on the Bernina route is between Poschiavo and Pontresina. Why don't you do a day trip from the Bregaglia to Alp Grüm with a hike included, or even as far as Poschiavo?

If not, then I'd suggest that on the day you travel from Bregaglia valley to Luzern you go to St. Moritz, take a regional train from there to Alp Grüm, have early lunch there (inexpensive special lunch offers) on their terrace with gorgeous view, then hop on another train back to St. Moritz (or, depending on schedule, change in Pontresina and Samedan) and continue to Luzern via Chur.

The Glacier Express route is beautiful, but cannot compete with the Bernina Express scenery.

If the weather is lousy on that day just go straight to Luzern.

I.

PalenQ

<The two key routes offered by SBB seem to be bus to St Moritz then Bernina Express northwards towards Luzern or via Andermatt towards Luzern. The latter is a longer journey by a couple of hours.>

Well you are talking more about the Glacier Express route if talking about Andermatt (GE - St Moritz-Reichenau-Andermatt-Zermatt) - some Bernina Express trains do go to Chur but do not go beyond Chur and cannot because of a track-gauge difference(so disregard the statement the best scenes on the Bernina are below Chur - the Bernina does not go below Chur!

The best scenery is between St Moritz and Reichenau - regular trains do go beyond Chur but the scenery below Chur is realtively unspectacular -

The most scenic route to Lucerne IMO would be to take the Glacier Express - not Bernina Express - to Andermatt, then take the shuttle train down to Goschenen to join the Gotthard main line to Arth-Goldau and Lucerne (may have to change at Arth-Goldau) - this would be the most scenic as well as perhaps quickest route to Lucerne.

<The Glacier Express route is beautiful, but cannot compete with the Bernina Express scenery>

I agree but the OP is mixing up the Bernina Express with the Glacier Express if talking about going to Andermatt - only the GE express does that - some Bernina Expresses do go to Chur but from St Moritz they take the exact same routing as the Glacier Express trains do to Reichenau.

The classic Bernina Express goes from St Moritz to Tirano, Italy - to me the most scenic railway in Europe - but OP is not talking about that portion. (If in St Moritz area some days DON'T miss that gorgeous train trip - take it to the summit stations and back to St Moritz and get off and walk to glaciers or take gondolas to glaciers, etc - may a leisurely day of it.

There is another tangled route that would be scenic - take any train - no need for official GE or BE to Chur, change to mainline trains and change at Pfaffikon to another narrow-gauge railway to Arth-Goldau, changing there for Lucerne - otherwise on the mainline from Chur the quickest way to Lucerne is to go via Zurich and change - may be the quickest overall but not the most scenic.

for lots of great info on Swiss trains and passes which you should check on if spending much time on trains, lake boats or mountain conveyances - check: www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Note that official Glacier Express trains are often full and sell out weeks early at times since they are a favorite of tour bus groups - make your reservation ASAP - and though regular trains run this route you may have to change - will have to change and it would take much longer than the official GE - if going to Andermatt that is! (Well check on regular trains - see how long they take to Andermatt - they go over the exact same route.

The Gotthard Route Goschenen to Lucerne via Arth-Goldau is scenic - one of the most scenic mainline trains in Europe IME - keep your eyes peeled for the famous Weissenkirche - near there the train does a couple of loops inside a mountain and you have some openings so you see the Weissenkirche three times - each time going in a different direction!

PalenQ

The spectacular scenery on the Bernina is well BELOW both Chur and St. Moritz.>

Now I get what Dukey is saying - missed it before - by below he is saying south of I think - I thought since OP was going north he meant north of.... sorry about misinterpretation - and he is right but he did not read the OP's statement carefully that they want to go to Lucerne from St Moritz the most scenic way and for that the Bernina Express need have nothing to do with it - you can take the official Bernina Express to Chur or the Glacier Express to Andermatt but can also take regular trains that you just hop on - no reservation required.

Now I get what dukey wa son about - the dramatic scenery on the Berina Railway is south of St Moritz - that part to me is Europe's most scenic railway.

PalenQ

The highlight of the Rheatein Railways line just south of St Moritz are the famous Albula Loops - a monumental feat of railway engineering for circa 1900 that has garnered UNESCO's annointment of this section as a World Heritage Site - the train goes up and around or down and around depending on which way you go in and out in loops:

https://www.google.com/search?q=albu...=1600&bih=1075

neckervd

All itineraries in and around Val Bregaglia are scenic.

Main itineraries Bregaglia - Lucerne:

Promontogno - Samedan - Chur - Thalwil - Lucerne (6 hrs journey; all the year round):
Promontogno dp 7.35 and then every hr until 18.35, except 10.35, 12.35; change at St. Moritz, Chur and Thalwil

Promontogno - Monza - Lucerne (8 hrs journey; all the year round):
Promontogno dp 8.22, then every 2 hrs until 16.22; change at Chiavenna, Colico, Monza and Arth-Goldau

Promontogno - Glacier Express - Andermatt - train - Lucerne (9 hrs journey, all the year round except mid Oct - mid Dec):
Promontogno dp 7.35, change at St. Moritz, Andermatt and Goeschenen

Promontogno - Spluegen Pass - Chur - Thalwil - Lucerne (7 hrs journey; from June 6th until Oct 10th):
Promontogno dp 13.22 and 15.22, change at Chiavenna, Spluegen, Chur and Thalwil

Promontogno - Spluegen Pass - San Bernardino - Bellinzona - Lucerne (7 1/4 hrs journey; from June 6th until Oct 10th):
Promontogno dp 13.22 and 15.22, change at Chiavenna, Spluegen, Bellinzona and Arth-Goldau

Promontogno - Julier Pass - Chur - Thalwil - Lucerne (6 hrs journey; from June 6th until Oct 20th):
Promontogno dp 7.35, 14.35, 15.35, change at Silvaplana, Chur and Thalwil

Promontogno - Glacier Express - Andermatt - Post Bus - Furka Pass - Grimsel Pass - Meiringen - train - Bruenig Pass - Lucerne (from June 20th until Oct 11th):
Promontogno dp 8.35 - Lucerne ar 19.55, change at St. Moritz, Andermatt, Gletsch and Meiringen

Promontogno - Bellano - Lake Como boat - Como - Lucerne (until Setp 27th, boat timetables will change twice during this period):
Promontogno dp 8.29 - Chiavenna 8.58/9.26 - Colico 9.56/10.16 - Bellano 10.31/10.48 - Como Lago ar 13.35 - Como SG dp 15.44 - Lucerne ar 19.13
or
Promontogno dp 12.22 - Chiavenna 12.51/13.26 - Colico 13.56/14.16 - Bellano 14.37/15.05 - Como Lago ar 17.55 - Como SG dp 18.47 - Bellinzona 19.56/20.06 - Lucerne ar 22.41

Huggy

Hr

PalenQ

If in the area be sure to take the Bernina Pass Railway or the Bernina Express that run over it (though I like regular regional trains not requiring any reservation much better as I can hop from one side to the other as the scenery dictates vs the typical chock-full official BE trains) - take it to Alp Grum or Bernina Ospiz - the stations near the summit and a Top of the World Look and feel - walk to the glacier around the glacier-fed placid Alpine lake near either station - walk between the stations - just a few miles.

I think that getting off here or some other place near glaciers is much better than just rolling thru the scenery and never getting off and getting into it.

PalenQ

In summer I have ridden in open-air flat cars with just railings on the normal Bernina Pass Railway trains and that beats any panoramic observation car anytime - not all trains have them but if they do you feel like you're levitating thru wondrous Alpine scenery.

dreamon

Thank you so much, everyone, for the valuable information. I think we will be spoilt for choice. I only wish we had longer! Looking at the timetables, if we want to travel the Bernina Express route, we may be best doing it as a very long day trip. And separately heading north to Luzern on our last day. I guess we can decide that when we get there as long as we don't want a BEX reservation.

neckervd, do you have a favourite amongst those alternatives?

neckervd

"neckervd, do you have a favourite amongst those alternatives?"

All depends on your priorities (long Lake Como boat ride or Post bus ride over high mountain passes with glacier panoramas), your date of travel and the weather conditions (if the weather is fine in the south but ugly in the north, I would stay as long as possible in the Lake Como - Lugano area, in the reverse, I would try to reach Chur as soon as possible.

Bernina Express:
I'm with Palen: "I think that getting off here or some other place near glaciers is much better than just rolling thru the scenery and never getting off and getting into it."
Therefore I would visit the Bernina area as a day trip from Bregaglia.

neckervd

Bernina:
Just take a bus from Bregagllia to Surlej and a gondola from there to Corvatsch (it takes less than 2 hrs) and you will see at least 10times more glaciers and high mountain peaks that you would ever have seen from the Bernina Express line.

...or take a bus, the Bernina railway and the Diavolezza gondola (about 2 hrs journey) and you will have a similar panorama.
You can then go down to Tirano by Bernina railway and continue
either
by Italian railways to Colico - Chiavenna and by Swiss Post bus to Bregaglia.
or
by Swiss Post Bus to Stelvio Pass - Ofen Pass - Zernez, by Rhaetian railway to St. Moritz and by Swiss Post Bus to Bregaglia.

PalenQ

Is there baggage storage at Diavolezza train station or if going onto Italy do you have to take your bags with you?

dreamon

Thank you, neckervd, that's much appreciated. I'll keep looking into your suggestions and we won't make a decision until we see what the weather will be like. We'll be there early June. Very much looking forward to visiting this area.

neckervd

BAGGAGE STORAGE
at Pontresina (from 6.40am until 6pm), 15 min by train from Bernina Diavolezza.

neckervd

....you may also send your luggage by SBB fast luggage service from St. Moritz/Samedan/Pontresina/Scuol to Lugano.
If you choose that solution, it's much easier to change between trains, Lake Como boats, buses, Lake Lugano boats (from Porlezza to Lugano) etc. and to stop over wherever you like.