Bellagio to Venice by train
Apr 20th, 2012, 03:30 AM
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Bellagio to Venice by train
I'd appreciate advice on how to get from Bellagio to Venice by train. Would it be better to go from Bellagio - Varenna - Milan Centrale - Venice, OR, Bellagio - Como - Milan Centrale - Venice. I will be travelling at the end of June 2012 and would like the most hassle free way of travel (2 adults and 1 child). I try to enter ''Varenna to Venice'' on the trenitalia website as well as trenord.it website, but somehow they don't even have Varenna as one of the station choices - so I'm wondering if it's perhaps such a small station, that only slow trains travel to and from it, therefore, does not allow pre-booking? The Como to Venice route sounds ok, but I understand from reading past threads that the ferry ride from Bellagio to Como is a long one (about an hour?), whereas to go from Bellagio to Varenna, it is only about 15 mins? I plan to travel on a Wednesday, hoping to get to Venice by early afternoon.
Also, is it worth booking the tickets for this whole trip, or is it something that I can just stroll up to the train station on the day and ask for a ticket to Venice? Appreciate any advice regarding this. Thanks in advance!
Also, is it worth booking the tickets for this whole trip, or is it something that I can just stroll up to the train station on the day and ask for a ticket to Venice? Appreciate any advice regarding this. Thanks in advance!
Apr 20th, 2012, 04:16 AM
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If you are using www.trenitalia.com, as soon as you start typing Varen.., then it shows Varenna-Esino, which is the station names. The destination is Venezia S. Lucia.
The route via Varenna is the fastest way to get to Venice. All routes out of Bellagio has some downside even the land route. Getting on/off boat is a hassle and so is taking a winding road from Bellagio to Como.
For Bellagio-Varenna route, the hassle may be the Varenna boat dock to the Varenna-Esino station which requires a short uphill walk or take a taxi.
The long distance train part, Milano-Venezia, would benefit greatly by buying advanced fare online.
The Verenna-Milano train is local train and no benefit costwise by buying ahead. However, Varenna-Esino is an unmanned station. So either buy this ticket for this segment when you at manned station elsewhere (how are you getting to Bellagio in the first place?), use a vending machine at Varenna-Esino station, use a travel agent located between the boat dock and the train station in Varenna if the office is open. Someone mentioned a shop at the station sells ticket, but I have not done this.
The route via Varenna is the fastest way to get to Venice. All routes out of Bellagio has some downside even the land route. Getting on/off boat is a hassle and so is taking a winding road from Bellagio to Como.
For Bellagio-Varenna route, the hassle may be the Varenna boat dock to the Varenna-Esino station which requires a short uphill walk or take a taxi.
The long distance train part, Milano-Venezia, would benefit greatly by buying advanced fare online.
The Verenna-Milano train is local train and no benefit costwise by buying ahead. However, Varenna-Esino is an unmanned station. So either buy this ticket for this segment when you at manned station elsewhere (how are you getting to Bellagio in the first place?), use a vending machine at Varenna-Esino station, use a travel agent located between the boat dock and the train station in Varenna if the office is open. Someone mentioned a shop at the station sells ticket, but I have not done this.
Apr 20th, 2012, 06:59 AM
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<< the ferry ride from Bellagio to Como is a long one (about an hour?), whereas to go from Bellagio to Varenna, it is only about 15 mins >>
You're comparing two different things.
I don't think one way of getting to Venice is any more difficult than the other.
I loved taking the boat from Bellagio to Como (it's different than the boats that go around the center of the lake). It's a large boat with comfy seating and huge windows. The views of both sides of the lake are wonderful.
It does take an hour to get to Como and then you transfer to the train station for the train to Venice which take 3.5 to 4 hours with a transfer in Milan.
Varenna to Milan is about an hour and then to Venice is 2.5 hours so it's a bit shorter - almost 4 hours compared to 4.5 to 5 hours if you take the first option. There are few changes if you go via Varenna but the hill to the train station in Varenna is quite steep. If you have a lot of luggage or if your child is young you should book a taxi.
You're comparing two different things.
I don't think one way of getting to Venice is any more difficult than the other.
I loved taking the boat from Bellagio to Como (it's different than the boats that go around the center of the lake). It's a large boat with comfy seating and huge windows. The views of both sides of the lake are wonderful.
It does take an hour to get to Como and then you transfer to the train station for the train to Venice which take 3.5 to 4 hours with a transfer in Milan.
Varenna to Milan is about an hour and then to Venice is 2.5 hours so it's a bit shorter - almost 4 hours compared to 4.5 to 5 hours if you take the first option. There are few changes if you go via Varenna but the hill to the train station in Varenna is quite steep. If you have a lot of luggage or if your child is young you should book a taxi.
Apr 20th, 2012, 09:23 AM
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Hopefully you know how important the difference in Italy is between "locali" and "rapido" (local and express, or "espressi") trains. And that also goes for the ferries that ply Lake Como. After arriving in Como on my first trip to Italy I ran to the ferry pier and jumped on the next departing ferry---big mistake. It was a "locali" and a half-hour trip via an express ferry turned into a three hour ordeal, as it stopped at every little curve on the lakeshore. Same thing happened when I trained my way from Milan (where I returned after three heavenly days on Lake Como) to Venice. Again, I wound up taking the next train, another "locali." So instead of arriving at 9 pm I arrived in Venice at midnight---the witching hour! I had been told to take the vaporetto ferry to the Accademia stop but "make sure your ferry doesn't turn off the Grand Canal." Of course, that's exactly what the ferry did as it made its way through the darkened and magical city. It finally returned to the Grand Canal and, at the ferry stop, where all was pitch-black, scary, and very Daphne de Maurier, a gentleman walking a Pomeranian offered to walk me to the Pensione Seguso. So, be sure to book on express trains when making longer trips---or you'll wind up writing an article back home whose title might be: "I was a Prisoner on an Italian Locali Train!"
Apr 20th, 2012, 10:22 AM
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<i>is it worth booking the tickets for this whole trip, or is it something that I can just stroll up to the train station on the day and ask for a ticket to Venice?</i>
You could, except that if you go the Varenna route, the Varenna station is very small and has no ticket office. (I never saw a ticket machine there last year, and our hotel staff never mentioned one when we asked). There is a tourist office a bit down the hill (a nice stopping point on that walk!) where you can buy train tickets as long as you're there while they're open, but a more reliable option would be to buy your tickets to Venice when you buy the tickets to Varenna (in Milan).
It's possible that you could save some money on the Milan-Venice leg by booking ahead - look for "Mini" fares on Trenitalia. If these are sold out already, you wouldn't save anything by buying online. The Milan-Varenna train is a regional one and is always the same price, plus you can't book those more than a week ahead, I believe.
As far as the walk up the hill, if you can pack pretty light (which I'd advise anyway, since you'll be changing trains a lot) and are in decent shape, it'll definitely get your heart rate up but won't wear you out. My nephew is three and he could walk it, but probably not if he was carrying anything. If you'll have a lot of luggage, though, a taxi would be a good idea.
You could, except that if you go the Varenna route, the Varenna station is very small and has no ticket office. (I never saw a ticket machine there last year, and our hotel staff never mentioned one when we asked). There is a tourist office a bit down the hill (a nice stopping point on that walk!) where you can buy train tickets as long as you're there while they're open, but a more reliable option would be to buy your tickets to Venice when you buy the tickets to Varenna (in Milan).
It's possible that you could save some money on the Milan-Venice leg by booking ahead - look for "Mini" fares on Trenitalia. If these are sold out already, you wouldn't save anything by buying online. The Milan-Varenna train is a regional one and is always the same price, plus you can't book those more than a week ahead, I believe.
As far as the walk up the hill, if you can pack pretty light (which I'd advise anyway, since you'll be changing trains a lot) and are in decent shape, it'll definitely get your heart rate up but won't wear you out. My nephew is three and he could walk it, but probably not if he was carrying anything. If you'll have a lot of luggage, though, a taxi would be a good idea.
Apr 20th, 2012, 12:37 PM
#8
>>>So, be sure to book on express trains when making longer trips---or you'll wind up writing an article back home whose title might be: "I was a Prisoner on an Italian Locali Train!"<<<
Not possible from Varenna to Milan as it's only served by slow R trains. Fast trains don't serve small towns and mainly serve the major cities.
Not possible from Varenna to Milan as it's only served by slow R trains. Fast trains don't serve small towns and mainly serve the major cities.
Apr 20th, 2012, 02:25 PM
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When I was last in Varenna, there was no ticket facility. Tickets for the train were bought at the local news/tabacco shop. Tickets were easy to purchase.
FYI if you don't book ahead.
I agree with kybourbon, the train from Varenna is largely a commute train, and will stop a couple of times in minor stations in Milan. Most workers get off at these stations.
FYI if you don't book ahead.
I agree with kybourbon, the train from Varenna is largely a commute train, and will stop a couple of times in minor stations in Milan. Most workers get off at these stations.
Apr 20th, 2012, 09:30 PM
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Thanks for all the input. I suppose it looks like Bellagio - Varenna - Milan Centrale - Venice might be the way to go. The only difficulty sounds like that steep hill between boat dock and train station. Are taxis readily available once I get off the ferry at Varenna? Or is it something I have to somehow book when I am in Bellagio the day before.
I am getting to Bellagio in the first place via: Milan Malpensa - Milan Centrale - Varenna - Bellagio (I have a separate thread on that too)
So I suppose when I am in Milan Centrale on my way up to Bellagio, I can buy a return ticket for Centrale - Varenna - Centrale. Do you think this is the thing to do? I will be staying in Bellagio for 5 nights, so hope that the return ticket has at least a 1 week validity (?)
<<When I was last in Varenna, there was no ticket facility. Tickets for the train were bought at the local news/tabacco shop.>>
By the way, would I buy it from tobacco shop in Bellagio, or in Varenna once I get off the boat at Varenna?
I would like to prebook my Milan Centrale - Venice train, so to avoid any disappointment and make sure that I have a rapido train for that leg.
I hope that this will work.
I am getting to Bellagio in the first place via: Milan Malpensa - Milan Centrale - Varenna - Bellagio (I have a separate thread on that too)
So I suppose when I am in Milan Centrale on my way up to Bellagio, I can buy a return ticket for Centrale - Varenna - Centrale. Do you think this is the thing to do? I will be staying in Bellagio for 5 nights, so hope that the return ticket has at least a 1 week validity (?)
<<When I was last in Varenna, there was no ticket facility. Tickets for the train were bought at the local news/tabacco shop.>>
By the way, would I buy it from tobacco shop in Bellagio, or in Varenna once I get off the boat at Varenna?
I would like to prebook my Milan Centrale - Venice train, so to avoid any disappointment and make sure that I have a rapido train for that leg.
I hope that this will work.
Apr 20th, 2012, 10:07 PM
#11
>>>So I suppose when I am in Milan Centrale on my way up to Bellagio, I can buy a return ticket for Centrale - Varenna - Centrale.<<<
Yes. There are ticket kiosks which are touch screen and you can select English. Buy these separate from your Milan/Venice ticket. Tickets for R trains must be validated track side (yellow box). Just don't buy an R ticket online as there are restrictions on them that aren't on the tickets bought at the station. Here's how to use the kiosks in the station. Scroll down for screen by screen instructions.
http://www.roninrome.com/transportat...ickets-updated
If you want to book Milan/Venice early and try to get a discount, book online at Trenitalia. If discounts are gone, just buy this ticket when you are buying the others. Be sure to allow enough time to make this train.
Yes. There are ticket kiosks which are touch screen and you can select English. Buy these separate from your Milan/Venice ticket. Tickets for R trains must be validated track side (yellow box). Just don't buy an R ticket online as there are restrictions on them that aren't on the tickets bought at the station. Here's how to use the kiosks in the station. Scroll down for screen by screen instructions.
http://www.roninrome.com/transportat...ickets-updated
If you want to book Milan/Venice early and try to get a discount, book online at Trenitalia. If discounts are gone, just buy this ticket when you are buying the others. Be sure to allow enough time to make this train.
Jul 17th, 2014, 09:21 PM
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Here is current information as of July 4, 2014. There is a travel agency on the way to the train station from the ferry dock in Varenna. If you just look for the white path, it will take you right to it. The agency is called I Viagge Del Tivano and its hours are M-F 8:30-12:30 and 3-7PM. Saturday 8:30-12. Closed Sunday. It is on Via per Esino. According to my hotel in Bellagio there is no place in Bellagio itself to buy tickets. There is also no machine at the station. As long as your train time works into this schedule, you should be ok. Otherwise, I don't know what you should do.
Also, I did the walk from the ferry dock to the train station in about 5-7 minutes. I had a large rolling suitcase and a backpack. It is uphill, but other than one set of stairs, not horribly difficult.
The yellow validating box outside at the station does not work, but the one inside the waiting room does. When I was there, both the men's and women's restroom were also out of order.
I tried to purchase both the ticket from Varenna to Milan, and from Milan to Venice on the trenitalia website ahead of time. To do this, you need to be registered on the website, but you need an Italian address to register so I could not do it. However, if you want to buy just Milan to Venice ticket on the trenitalia site, you can do so without registering. Don't know why you can't buy the local train ticket part, but glad I read somewhere about being able to buy the other one without registering.
After spending a bunch of time figuring all this out, the conductor never came by on that Varenna-Milano train. Go figure.
Also, I did the walk from the ferry dock to the train station in about 5-7 minutes. I had a large rolling suitcase and a backpack. It is uphill, but other than one set of stairs, not horribly difficult.
The yellow validating box outside at the station does not work, but the one inside the waiting room does. When I was there, both the men's and women's restroom were also out of order.
I tried to purchase both the ticket from Varenna to Milan, and from Milan to Venice on the trenitalia website ahead of time. To do this, you need to be registered on the website, but you need an Italian address to register so I could not do it. However, if you want to buy just Milan to Venice ticket on the trenitalia site, you can do so without registering. Don't know why you can't buy the local train ticket part, but glad I read somewhere about being able to buy the other one without registering.
After spending a bunch of time figuring all this out, the conductor never came by on that Varenna-Milano train. Go figure.
Jul 18th, 2014, 02:59 AM
#14
There is little which is new in the above post. Several years ago that ticket stamping machine in Varenna-Esino was "out of order" and the restrooms didn't work then, either.
If one has trouble registering on the Trenitalia.com site you can always go to the Italiarail.com site and use it. The surcharge for a ticket with the same prices otherwise that TrenNord charges are small.
If one has trouble registering on the Trenitalia.com site you can always go to the Italiarail.com site and use it. The surcharge for a ticket with the same prices otherwise that TrenNord charges are small.
Jul 18th, 2014, 03:35 AM
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There is plenty new in the above recent post and I thank jlinia for taking time to post it. To correct Dukey1's generally unhelpful and self-absorbed post, the trains that depart Varenna have nothing to do with the TreNord commuter system.
Also, if nothing else it is worthwhile for travelers to know that for most people, walking to the Varenna train station with luggage is quite doable. That was my experience as well.
jlinia,
You wrote:
>>the conductor never came by on that Varenna-Milano train. Go figure.<<
It would cost a fortune in either tax dollars or fare hikes to pay to put enough conductors on every train in Italy to check everyone's ticket. It is like the IRS not hiring enough people to audit everyone's tax return. The system relies on well-advertised spot checks, and dreadful fines if you are caught riding a train with an invalid ticket or no ticket. Many countries follow the same system.
Also, if nothing else it is worthwhile for travelers to know that for most people, walking to the Varenna train station with luggage is quite doable. That was my experience as well.
jlinia,
You wrote:
>>the conductor never came by on that Varenna-Milano train. Go figure.<<
It would cost a fortune in either tax dollars or fare hikes to pay to put enough conductors on every train in Italy to check everyone's ticket. It is like the IRS not hiring enough people to audit everyone's tax return. The system relies on well-advertised spot checks, and dreadful fines if you are caught riding a train with an invalid ticket or no ticket. Many countries follow the same system.
Jul 19th, 2014, 04:51 AM
#16
>>>Don't know why you can't buy the local train ticket part,<<<
I would imagine you were trying to buy it too far in advance. Trenitalia only sells regional tickets 7 days in advance.
>>>To do this, you need to be registered on the website, but you need an Italian address to register so I could not do it.<<<
I imagine you didn't make the right selections. Did you select the United States as your country?
>>>To correct Dukey1's generally unhelpful and self-absorbed post, the trains that depart Varenna have nothing to do with the TreNord commuter system. <<<
Wrong. These trains do have something to do with Trenord and you can buy your tickets on Trenord for Varenna/Milan and print them at home (or at least the majority of trains departing from there). If you were to click for info on train in the Lombardy region on Trenitalia, it rolls over to Trenord.
*****Company profile
TRENORD S.r.l. employs over 4,000 people and is the only company in Italy that deals exclusively with public transport by rail of a single region. Lombardy is the most "mobile" area in Italy, where more than 650,000 people - approximately 180 million passengers per year - travel by train every day.
TRENORD is the first operator to specialise in local transport by rail. It manages the suburban and regional rail service, the airport service Malpensa Express (from Milano Cadorna, Milano Centrale, Milano Porta Garibaldi) and the Como-Chiasso and Malpensa-Bellinzona cross-border service, providing a total of 2,300 journeys per day, predominantly towards the hub of Milan.****
Trenord map lines (you will have to enlarge a tad to see Varenna a few stops above Lecco).
http://www.trenord.it/media/616783/l...dic2012_a4.pdf
Unlike Trenitalia, Trenord lets you buy regional tickets further in advance (months). Like Trenitalia, they require your Visa/MC be verified secure (you will see this stated on the payment screen). Not all Visa/MC's participate in the secure program so your issuing bank may not. I had to get it for my MC years ago for an online purchase in the states. Just check your provider.
http://www.trenord.it/EN/
http://www.mastercard.us/securecode.html
http://usa.visa.com/merchants/grow-y...ed-by-visa.jsp
You can also buy tickets at Tabaccheria Bernasconi Claudia,Via IV Novembre 6, Varenna 7-20 M-S, closed Sunday.
>>>If one has trouble registering on the Trenitalia.com site you can always go to the Italiarail.com site and use it. The surcharge for a ticket with the same prices otherwise that TrenNord charges are small.<<<
Italiarail charges $10 + $5 processing fee for the Varenna/Milan ticket. With Trenord online, you would pay 6.45€ ($8.72) plus the 1% ($.08)your Visa/MC would charge which would be the same as walk-up price at the Tabacchi. $15 vs $9. While that isn't much money total for either ticket, it is a big markup on a cheap ticket.
I would imagine you were trying to buy it too far in advance. Trenitalia only sells regional tickets 7 days in advance.
>>>To do this, you need to be registered on the website, but you need an Italian address to register so I could not do it.<<<
I imagine you didn't make the right selections. Did you select the United States as your country?
>>>To correct Dukey1's generally unhelpful and self-absorbed post, the trains that depart Varenna have nothing to do with the TreNord commuter system. <<<
Wrong. These trains do have something to do with Trenord and you can buy your tickets on Trenord for Varenna/Milan and print them at home (or at least the majority of trains departing from there). If you were to click for info on train in the Lombardy region on Trenitalia, it rolls over to Trenord.
*****Company profile
TRENORD S.r.l. employs over 4,000 people and is the only company in Italy that deals exclusively with public transport by rail of a single region. Lombardy is the most "mobile" area in Italy, where more than 650,000 people - approximately 180 million passengers per year - travel by train every day.
TRENORD is the first operator to specialise in local transport by rail. It manages the suburban and regional rail service, the airport service Malpensa Express (from Milano Cadorna, Milano Centrale, Milano Porta Garibaldi) and the Como-Chiasso and Malpensa-Bellinzona cross-border service, providing a total of 2,300 journeys per day, predominantly towards the hub of Milan.****
Trenord map lines (you will have to enlarge a tad to see Varenna a few stops above Lecco).
http://www.trenord.it/media/616783/l...dic2012_a4.pdf
Unlike Trenitalia, Trenord lets you buy regional tickets further in advance (months). Like Trenitalia, they require your Visa/MC be verified secure (you will see this stated on the payment screen). Not all Visa/MC's participate in the secure program so your issuing bank may not. I had to get it for my MC years ago for an online purchase in the states. Just check your provider.
http://www.trenord.it/EN/
http://www.mastercard.us/securecode.html
http://usa.visa.com/merchants/grow-y...ed-by-visa.jsp
You can also buy tickets at Tabaccheria Bernasconi Claudia,Via IV Novembre 6, Varenna 7-20 M-S, closed Sunday.
>>>If one has trouble registering on the Trenitalia.com site you can always go to the Italiarail.com site and use it. The surcharge for a ticket with the same prices otherwise that TrenNord charges are small.<<<
Italiarail charges $10 + $5 processing fee for the Varenna/Milan ticket. With Trenord online, you would pay 6.45€ ($8.72) plus the 1% ($.08)your Visa/MC would charge which would be the same as walk-up price at the Tabacchi. $15 vs $9. While that isn't much money total for either ticket, it is a big markup on a cheap ticket.
Jul 19th, 2014, 08:05 AM
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Users beware: Italian web design is inexplicably incompetent. Other service companies around the world, such as airlines, have no problem creating user-friendly websites for their international customers. For the life of me, I can't figure out what's wrong with the Italians who run their train systems.
The Trenord website has its share of bad code. Depending on the route, if you try to purchase a roundtrip ticket, the first page will ask you to fill in the two-way information, but the following page will only let you purchase one segment (basically, a one-way ticket). If you add one segment to your cart, the page will change. You can click a button that takes you back to "search," but it deletes all the information you first typed in, and basically, it looks like you have to start all over again. The process is completely confusing and makes absolutely no sense.
To bypass this nonsense, simply purchase each segment as a one-way. You're not getting any discount if you buy bulk. If you're buying more than one ticket, you can clarify the exact number before you click "Add to Cart."
The Trenord website has its share of bad code. Depending on the route, if you try to purchase a roundtrip ticket, the first page will ask you to fill in the two-way information, but the following page will only let you purchase one segment (basically, a one-way ticket). If you add one segment to your cart, the page will change. You can click a button that takes you back to "search," but it deletes all the information you first typed in, and basically, it looks like you have to start all over again. The process is completely confusing and makes absolutely no sense.
To bypass this nonsense, simply purchase each segment as a one-way. You're not getting any discount if you buy bulk. If you're buying more than one ticket, you can clarify the exact number before you click "Add to Cart."
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