View Picasso's painting of Guernica just once and you would understand what they went through.

The painting has drawn me back several times.

If you've ever been to the region, you can see the physical difference in many of the locals. A distinct and ancient culture, pre-dating Western Europe colonization.

The "problem" is that the ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna)remains active in fighting for the freedom and independance of the Basque peoples.

They were fighting repression then and they are still fighting repression now.

They still have to answer for collaborating with the Muslim invasions, attacking Charlemagne and killing Roland. ;^)

We drove on some of the mountain roads along the border with France where the Basque had shuttled people into Spain.
If you haven't read Michael Kurlansky's "Basque History of the World" I recommend it highly.
When I read your question my first thought was of also of Picasso's "Guernica."

The Navarran Basque killed Roland, and good for them (us)! It's a unique part of history in which certain French figures do not agree ( but who cares).

ETA is pretty well placated, offering to join in the elections, but most ignore them as best them can What remains today are mostly thugs and hoodlums, not the freedom fighters from the 60s, 70s and 80s, all of which ended up in jail.

"If you've ever been to the region, you can see the physical difference in many of the locals. A distinct and ancient culture, pre-dating Western Europe colonization" I'm afraid that really does not exist except in certain locations and in certain families. Yes there are some differences, but as a community, they have many physical differences, but you can always tell a Basque. One thing that remains true to all Basque is the unique blood type and DNA profile, which is actually very similar to the Irish from the west of Ireland.

As far as aiding Allied airmen, it was not actually unique to the Basque country. It happened in may areas, including Asturias, Cantabria and Catalunya, but the Basque, those who were anti-Franco, were very involved in this operation.

The meaning of the word 'mugalari'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugalari

Lovely people and a lovely part of the country.Not alot of repression nowadays and ETA (almost) finished.I agree with Robert,lots of Spaniards helped airmen escape all along the Pyrenees,not just the Basques.I dont know of any museums related to the topic.Sorry.

Weber, I don´t think that it is something of special interest to our government.
People were passing through the frontier since before WWII, specially germans (both jews and oppositors to the Nazi regime) on their way to South America.

To me, the "best" monument is the apple pie recipe that my grandmother learnt from US servicemen while living in Irun, just after WWII. There have always been links between the two sides of the frontier, so people in the spanish side got to meet the allied soldiers on the other side. The apple pie has gone through the family and we know it by heart. Last weekend I was teaching my 4 year old nephew how to prepare it, and that´s a bigger monument to me

bye, Cova

Much has been written about the subject, I just find hard to believe that the passing of people through the Pyrenees to Gibraltar, no less, went unnoticed by the authorities who were very concerned about the "maquis".
About the terrorists, that "freedom fighter" thing is a myth, as the merry highwaymen in Sierra Morena or in other countries. From the start they shot unarmed civilian by the back, and murdered women and children indiscriminately.
And what to say about the Guernica painting? It is well documented that it was a bulfighting subject (some say about the death of bullfighter Joselito) already painted before the war, commisioned by some mexican and left unpaid, thus undelivered. When asked for a singular work for the Spanish Republic stand at the Paris 1937 International Exhibition, Picasso made some minor changes/additions (and, of course, a new title) and there you are.
BTW, it is often said that Picasso made the painting for free, charging only for the costs of materials (those who have seen the painting must agree that they are frail and cheap). In the end, the "materials" added 200.000 francs, about 15% of the total cost of the stand.

>>>They still have to answer for collaborating with the Muslim invasions, attacking Charlemagne and killing Roland. ;^)<<<

And I thought I was bad still holding a grudge against the Spanish for the Armada! LOL

Cova,
"People were passing through the frontier since before WWII"

My impression is that for centuries the Basques let people, armies, whatever, pass through the territory as they wished but the Basques always retained control of the region. It was almost as if the Basque attitude was "You guys go ahead and have your wars but we are not going to get involved so long as you simply pass through our territory".

It is right the opposite. Being a frontierland in many occasions they had to resist several attacks/invasions, not always successfully. Actually, Roland's army was attacked and defeated when retreating after sacking Pamplona and the territory.
Besides, there are many other places to cross the frontier along the Prenees.

My only exposure to the Basque separatist movement, and Spanish oppression, came in the early 70's when I was on a team that was doing a field survey of a potential site for a nuclear power plant in Basque territory near the French border. Since there was both ETA activity in the area, and also a protest movement against building the plant, the inspection party was accompanied by a heavily armed guard force.

The plant was to be named DEVA, and while we were scrambling about the site a small party of protesters showed up carrying signs saying "DEVA NO!", and trying to hand out brochures against the plant. They were quickly rounded up by the military/Guardia, and lined up before our party. The protesters were then forced to eat a brochure each while we watched, and squirmed. They were reluctant, of course, to tear the brochures up and stuff the pieces in their mouths, but they had automatic weapons pointed at them by some very serious looking troops.

One of the most uncomfortable moments of my life. All of us had to bite our tongues till they bled. I could certainly see why there was resentment, and even rebellion among the Basques.

BTW, it was a totally crap site, with an obvious capable seismic fault running right through the middle of it. The plant was never built, hopefully because of our very negative report.

"About the terrorists, that "freedom fighter" thing is a myth, as the merry highwaymen in Sierra Morena or in other countries. From the start they shot unarmed civilian by the back, and murdered women and children indiscriminately." And just where did you get this misinformation?

When ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna, Basque Fatherland and Liberty) started in the early 60s, they had a purpose, a hatred of Franco and his forceful suppression of the Basque language and culture, and the slaughter of the innocents in Gernika. Some victims were civilians by accident, as they targeted military, police and members of the Franco government. When Generalissimo Francisco Franco died they lost their purpose and eventually became nothing but common criminals, as most of the intellectuals who formed the core of ETA where in jail, or turned their attention to working within the system.

Very interesting comments.

June 28, 1960. The girl Begoña Urroz Ibarrola, one and a half years old, was killed by a bomb in Amara RRWW station in San Sebastián. It is considered eta's first victim. Pity, an "accident".
Guernica is another myth of the communists, it was indeed a military target as there was an ammunitions factory, plus a bridge and crossroads. The list of casualties is under 130 dead people. eta has killed over 850.

In 1972 we visited Pamplona and ate at a restaurant a few times during the stay. About 10 later it was bombed. We just figured the owner and the ETA were at odds.

There are a number of Basque descendents in the United States in the near west and California. They came here originally for their skills as shepherds.

"...They were fighting repression then and they are still fighting repression now."

What repression are they fighting today?

Quote Josele: "Guernica is another myth of the communists, it was indeed a military target as there was an ammunitions factory, plus a bridge and crossroads."

Indeed, the bridge was an important military target - it would have prevented the Republicans' impending withdrawal/retreat from the near by front line.

Such a shame then that no effort was made to bomb either the factory nor the bridge.

Plenty of ordnance expended on terrorising a population almost entirely consisting of women and children though.

As for the oft repeated story of the re-hashed work which expediently - and expensively - was presented as Guernica, that's been pretty positively attributed to originating with Generalisimo Franco's propoganda ministry during the 40's as an attempt to discredit the work on it's tour around the US. It's been positively disproved with the posthumous publication of Picasso's working drawings and sketches and the photograph's Dora Maar took of the work in progress.

Dr D.

There was a first raid by italian planes. When the germans arrived they bombed the town either deliberately or by mistake due to the smoke of previous bombing. There were more hits around the bridge than in the town proper. If they missed the bridge, its only them to blame. Under a 20% of the town was destroyed, but the Bilbao fire brigade took more than three hours to arrive, and retired without doing much. The town buildings, made mostly of wood, burned up to 70%
There were three battalions stationed in Guernica, and the Unceta weapons factory.
For terrorising civilians, check Coventry or Dresden.
The Dora Maar photos I know them, and prove nothing, Picasso is fabricating a painting. So?
The story of the painting from Jose María Sánchez Roda, a socialist, president of the commission in charge of artistic treasures of the Spanish Republic in 1937.
Anyway, I am too busy to carry on with this. If I find the time I'll scan and post an interesting photograph, and that'll be all.
"The first casualty when war comes is truth". Hiram W Johnson.

It's obvious that someone is a bit confused, if not outright delusional. The next thing you know is they will deny the holocaust every took place.

The first question would be, have you ever been to Gernika or even ventured into the Basque country? Have you visited the Peace Museum (www.museodelapaz.org) and seen the evidence of the destruction caused by Hitler's Condor Legion and Franco?

www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/guernica.htm

Noel Monks was a correspondent covering the civil war in Spain for the "London Daily Express."

"...I was the first correspondent to reach Guernica, and was immediately pressed into service by some Basque soldiers collecting charred bodies that the flames had passed over. Some of the soldiers were sobbing like children. There were flames and-smoke and grit, and the smell of burning human flesh was nauseating. Houses were collapsing into the inferno.

In the Plaza, surrounded almost by a wall of fire, were about a hundred refugees. They were wailing and weeping and rocking to and fro. One middle-aged man spoke English. He told me: 'At four, before the-market closed, many aeroplanes came. They dropped bombs. Some came low and shot bullets into the streets. Father Aroriategui was wonderful. He prayed with the people in the Plaza while the bombs fell.'..

...The only things left standing were a church, a sacred Tree, symbol of the Basque people, and, just outside the town, a small munitions factory. There hadn't been a single anti-aircraft gun in the town. It had been mainly a fire raid."

www.historytoday.com/paul-preston/bombing-guernica

"On April 26th, George Lowther Steer spent fifteen minutes in a bomb crater west of the small town of Guernica being strafed by the machine-guns of six Heinkel 51s. He was in Bilbao later that night when news came in that Guernica was burning"

This was his report in the London Times:

", the most ancient town of the Basques and the centre of their cultural tradition, was completely destroyed yesterday afternoon by insurgent air raiders. The bombardment of this open town far behind the lines occupied precisely three hours and a quarter, during which a powerful fleet of aeroplanes consisting of three German types, Junkers and Heinkel bombers, did not cease unloading on the town bombs weighing from 1,000 lbs. downwards and, it is calculated, more than 3,000 two-pounder aluminium incendiary projectiles. The fighters, meanwhile, plunged low from above the centre of the town to machine-gun those of the civilian population who had taken refuge in the fields.

In the form of its execution and the scale of the destruction it wrought, no less than in the selection of its objective, the raid on Guernica is unparalleled in military history. Guernica was not a military objective. A factory producing war material lay outside the town and was untouched. So were two barracks some distance from the town. The town lay far behind the lines. The object of the bombardment was seemingly the demoralization of the civil population and the destruction of the cradle of the Basque race."

"Don't let the truth spoil a good story"

Interesting...it´s odd to see how us Basques still provoke so much controversy and endless discussions...That´s probably one of the reasons for the implicit prohibition of discussing about religion and politics in our txokos (places where we meet-mainly men- to cook and enjoy the day).

Dr._Do Good,

Having read GUERNICA, THE CRUCIBLE OF WORLD WAR II by Gordon Thomas and Morgan Witts, I agree with your statement:

“As for the oft repeated story of the re-hashed work which expediently - and expensively - was presented as Guernica, that's been pretty positively attributed to originating with Generalisimo Franco's propoganda ministry during the 40's as an attempt to discredit the work on it's tour around the US.”

Franco was ruthless. Nevertheless, he held power for decades after other Fascist dictator were obliterated.

GHOSTS OF SPAIN Travels Through Spain and Its Silent Past by Giles Tremlett gives an powerful overview of the horrific machinations on each side of the Spanish Civil War and the reverberations of that conflict to this day in that country.

From what I have heard/read about ETA – it ain’t pretty. Several years back I took a tour of northern Spain led by a young lady from San Sebastian. Obviously, she knew the area well. She made several veiled references to the ruthlessness of the ETA faction. She promised to tell us about her family history, but in the end declined to do so. She did say that several of her circle had been killed or terrorized by the organization over the years.

She resented what she called the “romanticizing” of their history.
She suggested that whatever their original political objectives, their actions today have become criminal, Mafia-like, maybe some radical branches of the IRA.

Weber, interesting post…

Tribal groups [and I mean that respectfully] that have retained their cohesion, unique language, and traditional customs are, in my opinion, among the most interesting people in the world. Their pride, care for each other, and the way they honor their past is to be admired. I have some familiarity with three such groups: Basques, the Cajuns of Southwest Louisiana [not New Orleans], and the Gullah of the Carolina Sea Islands. Unique peoples, languages, and traditions. Interestingly, they all share one thing in common: They are all known for fine food which reflects their environment!

There were three battalions stationed in Guernica, and the Unceta weapons factory.
For terrorising civilians, check Coventry or Dresden.
__________
The Germans were not direct participants in the Spanish Civil War, hence the word Civil.

Coventry was a very compliated situation. The Allies had broken the German code by then and if Churchill defended the town, it would have jepordized D-Day.

The bombing of Dresden was bombed because Churchill and Truman knew that the Russians would be a problem after WWII and did not want to give them munitions factories.
______

There is an apocryphal story assocaited with the painting Gernika. Supposedly German soldiers entered Picasso's studio and asked if he did that. He replied, "No, you did."

Mikel, I would add football to the forbidden items in case there is some stray Real Madrid or ... the horror !!! a Real Sociedad supporter in the group.

Bye, Cova

If one is familiar with the Basque, you will soon see that they do not fit the mold of the Cajuns or Gullah. They are notably the oldest society in Europe and were the navigators that sailed to the new world, reaching Labrador several years before Columbus set sail in 1492 to "discover" the Americas, about a 1000 years after the Vikings. They where the ship builders of the Spanish and British armadas. Juan Sebastián Elcano (Getaria) circumnavigated the world after Magellan's death in the Philippines, hardly something a "tribal" group would or could accomplish.

The list of Basque accomplishments goes on an on, football not included

A reflection, in Spanish, about this debate
(possibility of automatic translation from Google)

http://blog.aboutbc.info/2012/05/17/un-interesante-debate-sobre-los-vascos-en-la-iigm-en-el-que-no-puede-faltar-un-fascista/

Interesting followup!

yes, very.

BC...while we may disagree with Josele, I don´t think he should be treated without the due respect. That link referring to him is highly biased against his right to disagree. My grandpa, a gudari (a Basque soldier) was one of those entering Gernika after the bombing, and there´s no doubt about what happened. But other people may not think so.

In any case, it´s funny how the "Basque" issue is always surrounded by so much controversy...we are just 2,5million people!!

The right to that respect is lost when you lie. The facts do not have "views" and Mr. Josele all it does is use the lies created by the fascists and their supporters to continue to lie about what happened in Gernika.

Can we disagree on what happened in Gernika, on the 30 tons of bombs on what they saw British and French correspondents on the lies of Franco and his allies, ....? No. You can not, unless you are trying to cheat and lie. What was done in Gernika was well acknowledged by German pilots themselves who participated in the bombing, an experiment of mass destruction of defenseless civilians.

Say what you say Mr. Josele, is just like Jewish Holocaust denial. Is to deny the evidence in order to defend the actions of totalitarian governments. And sorry, we do not admit it and respond the way they consider appropriate. Compromise on this issue is to allow the root lies and manipulation a bit more and that is a responsibility that we will not assume.

Right. We are a country of just over 3 million people, has seen every day to reaffirm their cultural identity, hist'órica, political, social .... That creates controversy. The controversies are not bad, just civilized confrontation of ideas leave the meeting points. But there are things that are not discussion of ideas, but malicious and outright lies:

"Guernica is another myth of the Communists, It was indeed a military target as an ammunitions factory There Was, plus a bridge and crossroads. The list of Casualties 130 dead people is under. Eta've Killed over 850."

"There was a raid by Italian first plans. When the Germans bombed the town They Arrived Deliberately Either by mistake or due to the smoke of previous bombing. There Were more hits around the bridge than in the town proper. If They missed the bridge, its only Them to blame. Under a 20% of the town WAS Destroyed, But The Bilbao fire brigade more than three hours Took to arrive, and retired without doing much. The town buildings, mostly made of wood, burned up to 70% "

Or the answer to references on the information that makes British correspondents Robert2533:

"Do not let the truth spoil a good story"

Mikelg Sorry, but those are the excuses of the fascists and who uses them, go into that group. Respect is earned, or if you prefer to be lost.

Sorry to use a terrible English, but penamos that means what we mean

greetings from the Basque Country