Basilica of San Francesco d'Assisi or Arena Chapel, Padua
Jan 6th, 2017, 07:19 PM
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Basilica of San Francesco d'Assisi or Arena Chapel, Padua
We will be in Florence this summer and are thinking of a side trip to either the Basilica of San Francesco d'Assisi or Arena Chapel, Padua. I'd like to hear from folks who have been to one or both. Which would you recommend and why?
Thanks, Joe
Thanks, Joe
Jan 6th, 2017, 07:51 PM
#2
I haven't been to Padua yet, ran out of time while in Venice.
But I really enjoyed the Basilica of St. Francis while in Assisi. The frescoes are quite wonderful. The entire complex is well worth a visit! The town itself is quite charming also if you get off the main drag and see the flower bedecked back lanes.
And, you can visit the Basilica of Saint Mary of the Angels in the lower town.
The basilica is literally built over the chapel where he lived and where he began the Franciscan order. The Basilica dwarfs the chapel itself. Quite moving. And the cell where he died is there in addition to the rose bushes he rolled in when tempted by the devil (thorns disappeared as he did so), and the statue of Francis where the doves still land on his hands, etc.
Had my best gnocchi with pesto in Assisi!
But I really enjoyed the Basilica of St. Francis while in Assisi. The frescoes are quite wonderful. The entire complex is well worth a visit! The town itself is quite charming also if you get off the main drag and see the flower bedecked back lanes.
And, you can visit the Basilica of Saint Mary of the Angels in the lower town.
The basilica is literally built over the chapel where he lived and where he began the Franciscan order. The Basilica dwarfs the chapel itself. Quite moving. And the cell where he died is there in addition to the rose bushes he rolled in when tempted by the devil (thorns disappeared as he did so), and the statue of Francis where the doves still land on his hands, etc.
Had my best gnocchi with pesto in Assisi!
Jan 6th, 2017, 09:21 PM
#4
I believe you're referring to the Scrovegni Chapel in Padova...?
Are you driving or taking trains? Either way, I would consider Assisi a bit far for a day trip. About 3 hours each way, and I think Assisi would be more crowded in summer, parking more difficult, etc.
I think the Basilica San Francesco is more impressive, but I prefer the town of Padova over Assisi.
Are you driving or taking trains? Either way, I would consider Assisi a bit far for a day trip. About 3 hours each way, and I think Assisi would be more crowded in summer, parking more difficult, etc.
I think the Basilica San Francesco is more impressive, but I prefer the town of Padova over Assisi.
Jan 6th, 2017, 09:25 PM
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I have been to both.
Just my opinion, but I think they are both too far for good day trips.
It will take about 2 & 1/2 hours each way to Assisi, so 5 hours travel. Any way you can do an overnight and combine it with another place?
It will take around 2 hours each way to Padua, 1 & 1/2 hour by a fast train, plus about 20 minutes walk to the Chapel and another 10 to 15 to city center, so 4 to 5 hours travel time. I would go to Padua only if it was easy because I was also going to Venice.
The Chapel in Padua is large as personal chapels go, but small as a place to see. It is beautiful, but of more interest IMHO, to people who have a religious interest or an interest in art history of the period. Though I fully understand the importance of the changes in art represented in the Arena Chapel, it does not move me visually. To protect the frescoes, the number of visitors is limited, timed and ticketed for a certain time. You must reserve or risk not getting in! You do not have time for much contemplation, but enough to view without rushing. If you go, unless you know a lot about it, it is one of the few places a tour might be nice. The rest of the buildings and grounds are nice to explore, but not really memorable.
Padua is a gorgeous city with pools and sculpture and beautiful, Venetian and Palladian style buildings. It has wonderful walking areas with large piazzas and cafes. It has a busy nightlife and lots of students. It is a great place to walk, shop, eat, listen to music.
Many churches, cathedrals, etc. end up surrounded by other buildings, but the exterior of the Basilica in Assisi is visually absolutely stunning! It stands alone on a high hill. Views of it from below make an instant impression which never leaves you. Views from the terrace are also really lovely. The rich interior, even the crypt, is beautiful and unique and oddly more cohesive than you would think.
Assisi is super small, a tiny stone village. You can walk end to end in a few minutes, if you can get through the often terribly, terribly crowded main walking area lined with cheap religious objects for sale, but, walk a minute from that main walk, and you will find peaceful steps and sleeping cats. It is hilly and high with great views and old, old stones with deeply worn impressions made by the feet of all the pilgrims who have walked there. I would love to be there at night after most tourists leave and it is quiet. Spiritual and religious aspects are not that important to me, but even to me, and in spite of the trinket vendors, Assisi feels like a place of devotion.
I would, hands down, choose the Basilica in Assisi. The are many lovely cities like Padua and the Chapel is of limited interest. Assisi is a unique example of an ancient village and the Basilica is one of a kind, interesting on many levels.
Just my opinion, but I think they are both too far for good day trips.
It will take about 2 & 1/2 hours each way to Assisi, so 5 hours travel. Any way you can do an overnight and combine it with another place?
It will take around 2 hours each way to Padua, 1 & 1/2 hour by a fast train, plus about 20 minutes walk to the Chapel and another 10 to 15 to city center, so 4 to 5 hours travel time. I would go to Padua only if it was easy because I was also going to Venice.
The Chapel in Padua is large as personal chapels go, but small as a place to see. It is beautiful, but of more interest IMHO, to people who have a religious interest or an interest in art history of the period. Though I fully understand the importance of the changes in art represented in the Arena Chapel, it does not move me visually. To protect the frescoes, the number of visitors is limited, timed and ticketed for a certain time. You must reserve or risk not getting in! You do not have time for much contemplation, but enough to view without rushing. If you go, unless you know a lot about it, it is one of the few places a tour might be nice. The rest of the buildings and grounds are nice to explore, but not really memorable.
Padua is a gorgeous city with pools and sculpture and beautiful, Venetian and Palladian style buildings. It has wonderful walking areas with large piazzas and cafes. It has a busy nightlife and lots of students. It is a great place to walk, shop, eat, listen to music.
Many churches, cathedrals, etc. end up surrounded by other buildings, but the exterior of the Basilica in Assisi is visually absolutely stunning! It stands alone on a high hill. Views of it from below make an instant impression which never leaves you. Views from the terrace are also really lovely. The rich interior, even the crypt, is beautiful and unique and oddly more cohesive than you would think.
Assisi is super small, a tiny stone village. You can walk end to end in a few minutes, if you can get through the often terribly, terribly crowded main walking area lined with cheap religious objects for sale, but, walk a minute from that main walk, and you will find peaceful steps and sleeping cats. It is hilly and high with great views and old, old stones with deeply worn impressions made by the feet of all the pilgrims who have walked there. I would love to be there at night after most tourists leave and it is quiet. Spiritual and religious aspects are not that important to me, but even to me, and in spite of the trinket vendors, Assisi feels like a place of devotion.
I would, hands down, choose the Basilica in Assisi. The are many lovely cities like Padua and the Chapel is of limited interest. Assisi is a unique example of an ancient village and the Basilica is one of a kind, interesting on many levels.
Jan 6th, 2017, 11:19 PM
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The two are completely different.
Assisi in general - and the Basilica in particular - is one of the most visited pilgrimage sites in Christendom. I've never found a time when the Basilica's not crowded with pilgrims - but the huge volume of frescoes also attract lots of sightseers.
IMHO there's almost never a good time either to see the frescoes properly (those worshippers get in the way) or to attend Mass (which the art-gawpers almost always disrupt). The frescoes aren't brilliantly conserved, but are historically important
To visit: just turn up. Calling Assisi "an ancient village" is absurd. it's a substantial town, and its population's doubled every day by visitors.
The Scrovegni Chapel is incorporated into the Eremitani Museum, is effectively deconsecrated and managed entirely as a work of art. It's been heavily (though to my mind brilliantly) restored. Access is tightly controlled, both to keep numbers down and to ensure the right air quality. Though pre-booking's not always necessary (whatever the website says, they were selling tix to walkups a couple of months ago), it's always wisest to book (http://www.cappelladegliscrovegni.it...n/how-to-visit) in advance, and to get to the museum a good half hour beforehand. There's lots else to see at the museum once you've collected your tickets.
Personally, I've found the 15 minutes set visit ample. You're required to wait in an ante-room (which doubles as an air lock), with an exhibition so comprehensive there's absolutely no need for a guide. I can think of no site on earth where a pre-set tour would be more pointless.
I'd plump for the Scrovegni, because the frescoes are just a great deal more accessible. But, apart from the artistic argument, the Scrovegni shows you how great art worked in an almost never visited private chapel of a rich family: while in Florence, make sure you see the Magi chapel in the Palazzo Medici Ricciardi: a similar conception 150 years later.
Assisi shows you similar painting on a completely different scale in a building intended to be always packed with pilgrims. Oddly, both churches still have pretty much the role their sponsors intended for them 700 years ago. The chaos at Assisi and the sterility at Padua are almost exactly as designed.
Both cities really require a full day from Florence: apart from anything else, the station at both towns is a schlep from the main historical sites.
Padua has had a far more multidimensional life than Assisi since the death of the two towns' best known saints. Its handful of surviving ancient university buildings offer far better insights into medieval academic life than anything in Bologna or Oxbridge. Padua's Basilica is a mini-me of Assisi's, with a far wider collection of artwork than Assisi (St Anthony has always commanded greater public devotion than St Francis, though Francis has far greater historical importance). Padua's Chiesa degli Eremitani has remarkable Mantegna frescoes - but a far more remarkable story of how they were brought back from the dead after almost total destruction in a 1944 bombing raid. And Padua's urban architecture is outstanding.
Assisi in general - and the Basilica in particular - is one of the most visited pilgrimage sites in Christendom. I've never found a time when the Basilica's not crowded with pilgrims - but the huge volume of frescoes also attract lots of sightseers.
IMHO there's almost never a good time either to see the frescoes properly (those worshippers get in the way) or to attend Mass (which the art-gawpers almost always disrupt). The frescoes aren't brilliantly conserved, but are historically important
To visit: just turn up. Calling Assisi "an ancient village" is absurd. it's a substantial town, and its population's doubled every day by visitors.
The Scrovegni Chapel is incorporated into the Eremitani Museum, is effectively deconsecrated and managed entirely as a work of art. It's been heavily (though to my mind brilliantly) restored. Access is tightly controlled, both to keep numbers down and to ensure the right air quality. Though pre-booking's not always necessary (whatever the website says, they were selling tix to walkups a couple of months ago), it's always wisest to book (http://www.cappelladegliscrovegni.it...n/how-to-visit) in advance, and to get to the museum a good half hour beforehand. There's lots else to see at the museum once you've collected your tickets.
Personally, I've found the 15 minutes set visit ample. You're required to wait in an ante-room (which doubles as an air lock), with an exhibition so comprehensive there's absolutely no need for a guide. I can think of no site on earth where a pre-set tour would be more pointless.
I'd plump for the Scrovegni, because the frescoes are just a great deal more accessible. But, apart from the artistic argument, the Scrovegni shows you how great art worked in an almost never visited private chapel of a rich family: while in Florence, make sure you see the Magi chapel in the Palazzo Medici Ricciardi: a similar conception 150 years later.
Assisi shows you similar painting on a completely different scale in a building intended to be always packed with pilgrims. Oddly, both churches still have pretty much the role their sponsors intended for them 700 years ago. The chaos at Assisi and the sterility at Padua are almost exactly as designed.
Both cities really require a full day from Florence: apart from anything else, the station at both towns is a schlep from the main historical sites.
Padua has had a far more multidimensional life than Assisi since the death of the two towns' best known saints. Its handful of surviving ancient university buildings offer far better insights into medieval academic life than anything in Bologna or Oxbridge. Padua's Basilica is a mini-me of Assisi's, with a far wider collection of artwork than Assisi (St Anthony has always commanded greater public devotion than St Francis, though Francis has far greater historical importance). Padua's Chiesa degli Eremitani has remarkable Mantegna frescoes - but a far more remarkable story of how they were brought back from the dead after almost total destruction in a 1944 bombing raid. And Padua's urban architecture is outstanding.
Jan 6th, 2017, 11:48 PM
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I've seen both and agree with flanneruk. For me, the fact that there is a limited number of visitors at one time in Scrovegni makes it much more personal and intimate than trying to view the Basilica in Assisi with crowds of people walking around with iPads held high trying to take pictures.
The sheer numbers of tourists in the Basilica took away from the experience.
On the other hand I was very moved by the frescoes in the Scrovegni chapel. If I returned I might make 2 visits, one to take in the ambience of the place, and another to examine the frescoes in more detail.
The sheer numbers of tourists in the Basilica took away from the experience.
On the other hand I was very moved by the frescoes in the Scrovegni chapel. If I returned I might make 2 visits, one to take in the ambience of the place, and another to examine the frescoes in more detail.
Jan 7th, 2017, 04:23 AM
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I've seen both, more than once, and would probably advise Assisi, because you can remain inside the Scrovegni Chapel only for a very short time, making the trip many times longer than the visit, unless there are other things you want to see in Padova.
You have to reserve the visit to the Scrovegni Chapel online at least one day in advance, paying with a credit card. Then you have to pick up the ticket well in advance on the day of the visit. Before entering the Chapel, you have to remain in a sealed room for some time to reduce humidty and pollutants that are hanging around you. I think you get only 20 minutes in the chapel, but it's not large. It was very crowded both times I was there.
The Scrovegni Chapel is sometimes called the Arena Chapel, because there was a Roman arena in its vicinity.
The Basilica of San Francesco, especially the Upper Basilica, is also crowded, but it's a much larger space.
If you're a Giotto fan, you may know that many experts are convinced that the frescoes attributed to him in the Upper Basilica, illustrating the life of St. Francis, are really by another artist.
There's a direct train from Florence to Assisi leaving at 8:02, arriving at 10:49, which would give you time to visit the Basilica and a few other places,and have lunch in Assisi. From the station in Assisi, you have to take a bus up the hill to the town. There are plenty of return trains in the afternoon and early evening.
The direct trains from Florence to Padova depart frequently and take little over an hour and a half. You can walk from the station to the chapel, or take the tram.
You have to reserve the visit to the Scrovegni Chapel online at least one day in advance, paying with a credit card. Then you have to pick up the ticket well in advance on the day of the visit. Before entering the Chapel, you have to remain in a sealed room for some time to reduce humidty and pollutants that are hanging around you. I think you get only 20 minutes in the chapel, but it's not large. It was very crowded both times I was there.
The Scrovegni Chapel is sometimes called the Arena Chapel, because there was a Roman arena in its vicinity.
The Basilica of San Francesco, especially the Upper Basilica, is also crowded, but it's a much larger space.
If you're a Giotto fan, you may know that many experts are convinced that the frescoes attributed to him in the Upper Basilica, illustrating the life of St. Francis, are really by another artist.
There's a direct train from Florence to Assisi leaving at 8:02, arriving at 10:49, which would give you time to visit the Basilica and a few other places,and have lunch in Assisi. From the station in Assisi, you have to take a bus up the hill to the town. There are plenty of return trains in the afternoon and early evening.
The direct trains from Florence to Padova depart frequently and take little over an hour and a half. You can walk from the station to the chapel, or take the tram.
Jan 7th, 2017, 05:05 AM
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The cult of St. Anthony is especially diffuse in the south of of Italy, where he is known simply as "il Santo", like some celebrities who are known just by their first names. He is appealed to for all sorts of miracles, in a way that often borders on the superstitious.
St. Francis is more esteemed than supplicated.
St. Francis is more esteemed than supplicated.
