Bamberg, instead of the Black Forest?

Bamberg has everything you are looking for, plus Rauchbier (smoked beer).

It's not too big, so you can see it in 2 days, but once you are up that way, I would suggest seeing Coburg, and Nurnberg.
and the Vierziehnheiliegen Basilica - truly one of the coolest religious buildings around, both in interior finishings and in it's history.

Bamberg rarely fails to disappoint, which you can see by searching for postings of it in this forum. 3 days up that was would be a delight.

You won't be sorry with Bamberg, I've been there a couple of times along with Bayreuth. It's so close to Wuerzburg that it makes sense to enjoy Bamberg instead driving across to see the black forest. The forest scenery will be different of course, but you seem more into the town centers and culture which both towns will offer plenty.

Bamberg is very attractive. For us, a full day was adequate. I'd second a visit to Nuremberg, also well worth a full day's visit - a wonderful place for fine buildings and walking around at will.

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Well, as others have said, Bamberg is wonderful. But it would be a pity to give up on the Schwarzwald. You can, as you imply, make some lovely day trip by (very) slow trains through the region. I think the solution here is to skip Rothenburg - which is absolutely overrun with tourists. Nice spot, to be sure, but no better than a dozen other small towns in the immediate vicinity.

Now, to throw a real spanner in the works.... if you are guided by the UNESCO World Heritage Site listings, then why not Quedlinburg? A larger number of listed buildings that any other place in Germany. Not yet really discovered by Fodors, so it's not been "branded" and "sold" to US visitors the way that Rothenburg, Neuschwanstein and Bamberg have. Worth a thought, perhaps.

Nicky
http://www.hiddeneurope.co.uk

I will completely disagree with hidden europe on Rothenburg.

It is an exceptional town that deserves it's reputation and there is nothing to compare it to - hence the large number of tourists that some people like to complain about so much.

If you get off a bus for a quick spin through town, you might feel overwhelmed - hundreds of others are doing the same thing - but staying for 2 nights will make a big difference in how you perceive the town. Stay out late and get up early each day and just walk around.

Up on the walls, around the outside on the valley side, or just sit in the Burgtor garden.

This place deserves every kudo it gets and anyone who passes it by because someone said it is too touristy is the real loser.

Having been to the Black Forest numerous times and ALSO living in the Poconos, let me tell you, the Schwarzwald looks NOTHING like here. Remember what the Poconos used to look like before everybody in NY and NJ ripped down every stand of timberland? The Black Forest is even nicer than that. It's simply gorgeous and a surprise around every turn in the road. Titisee is very touristy but unique. The Rhine waterfall is no Niagara or even Bushkill Falls, but it's still pretty. This is the place to go in Germany if you want a cuckoo. You'll see much more wildlife back home, but you won't get food and drink like this in PA. Nearby Lake Constance and the town of Lindau are well worth a visit.

That being said, Bamberg sounds fascinating too. We've never been there but are planning a December trip. Bamberg has the most breweries per capita of any place in the world which was my original reason for wanting to visit. Hearing about their 100 year anniversary further piques my interest. We plan on stopping in Bamberg and Dresden on our way up toward Berlin.

I think I need to do a trip with Aramis and Zeus. I love Rothenburg o.d.T. and the Schwarzwald as well. I've been to Rothenburg many times and the last time I spent four days there (and never got bored or overrun by tourists). I was traveling solo and always found a way to let the Altstadt or the surrounding villages entertain me. Perhaps I'm just easy to please.

The same can be said for the Black Forest (which definitely isn't overrun by tourists). This year I'll be spending two full weeks in the Schwarzwald (solo) and I already know it will be one of my favorite visits to Germany. Hidden valleys - thatched roof farms with balconies overlooking plush green meadows with grazing bell-clinking cows - great food - friendly country folks - some of the best Bier in Germany - free transportation on buses and trains while you are staying there. I've visited Bamberg and it's nice but I wouldn't trade a trip throught the forest for it... Ben (http://www.bensbauernhof.com)

Artstuff: It's all a matter of taste and what you are longing for because all the destinations you picked are good. You should just decide on what you want out of the trip. I enjoy the Harz mountain as much as I like Bavaria and the Black Forest.

Bamberg is an absolute gem of a small city. It is not overwhelmed by international visitors, but has enough tourists that it has a good tourism infrastructure. It isn't mass marketed internationally anything like Rothenburg and Neuschwanstein are--don't know where anyone could get that impression.

Unlike Rothenburg, Bamberg's Altstadt is a part of the city as a whole, not a tourist enclave with nothing but touristy gift shops, Christmas stores, tourist hotels/restaurants, and Schneeball vendors. Rothenburg is certainly photo-worthy and millions of people do love it, but it is a matter of personal preference. We prefer Bamberg.

It's also interesting because of the Regnitz River cutting thru the Altstadt--creating its own scenic "Little Venice" (very little).

And there are all those varieties of wonderful beer. We can recommend a couple of dining options if you do decide to include Bamberg.

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. Upon further research we have discovered that Bamberg, in addition to celebrating it's 1000th anniversary, also has many breweries to offer.

http://www.bambergbeerguide.com/CityDetail.asp?City=Bamberg

Once my husband heard that, there was no turning back...Bamberg will be included in our plans. We can only fit in one day and night, but that should be enough to give us a taste of the city, and of some very good beer.

Aramis, my husband is very intrigued by Rauchbier. We had just read a review about it, and then you mentioned it.

Because of several positive responses about the Schwarzwald, we have decided to keep it in our plans. If we never go and see it for ourselves, we'll never know how it compares to where we live (we actually live west of the Poconos, in Bloomsburg, the only town in Pennsylvania).

We've also never been to Switzerland, so keeping the Black Forest in our plans gives us the opportunity to add that country to our list of countries visited (isn't that another thread?)

Rufus - we would love any recommendations for dining in Bamberg that you could offer. Are any of them located at the breweries from the above link?

And by the way, Rothenburg ob der Tauber is non-negotiable. I don't care if it's a tourist trap. I want to walk the wall in the early morning, gazing out over the misty valley, looking for the band of charging marauders that I need to defend the city from. Okay, that's my imagination in overdrive...but you can get the idea.

Time to go off to bed to dream of lands unexplored. Thanks again for all your replies. Peace, Robyn

Robyn;

Your hubby MUST try the Bamberger Zwiebel at the Schlenkerla brewery/tavern.

I spelled the name right and if he has been looking into Rauchbier, he can't help but find it.

Ahhh, heaven is that famous baked onion washed down by a Rauchbier or three.

I'm getting teary here.

I agree that Bamberg is a must-see, Tititsee and Freiburg are also lovely, but I suggest that as long as you're in the Schwarzwald, you drop into Staufen for a stroll down a really charming main street.

Trust me on this!

Artstuff: You must be joking to consider the Black Forest as part of Switzerland. That said, Basel is just across the border. I spent a summer studying in Basel. It has an easy small oldtown to explore if you want to add Switzerland to your country list.

DAX - In no way do I think that Switzerland is part of the Black Forest! We plan on staying in Gengenbach, and using it as a base for a day trip to Schauffhasuen & Stein Am Rhine.

We did consider Basel as a day trip. I understand there is a museum of works by Jean Tinguely, which we would like to see. We saw some of his pieces in Paris and became very intrigued by his artwork.

Aramis - Thanks for the beer advice. My husband has started a little notebook to take with him, listing all the beers he wants to try, and track the ones he's sampled. Any other beer suggestions are welcome (and an excuse to drink another brew).

Pegontheroad - I'll have to check out Staufen when I get home this evening.

Off to work (darn I'm late). Peace, Robyn

Robyn;

There are many many beer guides to bamberg around the Net. Although it's a little messy, I like this one

http://www.bambergbeerguide.com/CityDetail.asp?City=Bamberg

because of the quality of the reviews.

It also lists every single brewery within 100 miles or so of Bamberg, too, if you would be so kind as to drive, or otherwise escort your hubby.

Brauerei Heller (Schlenkerla), however, rules! Please plan to go when you will have some time to just sit in the old front room and soak it all in, with that precious onion - it makes a terrific lunch.

Brauerei Fassla is just up the street and that's another good one

Robyn,

Here is another very good beer website for the Franconia region -www.franconiabeerguide.com

While Shlenkerla is the most famous Rauchbier (in the U.S. anyway), I am partial to Spezial's Rauchbier. Their tap room is on the north side of the rivers, towards the train station. Fasla is right across the street. Both offer decent budget accomodations. My fav brewery is Mahr's Brau - try the ungespundiet (sp?) from a gravity fed keg. You'll get local color, not tourists at this brewery tap. The Keesman brewery is across the street, but nothing special.

I also like Klosterbrau for it's neighborhood and decent beers.

If the weather is still warm enough, try Spezials beer garden up on the hill by the observatory or the Wild Rose next door. Great beers, outdoors with awesome views of the town.

Even if you forget the beer, Bamberg is a gem of a town.

Was in Bamberg a few years ago at Christmas time and enjoyed the Crippen way (sp?) where you went from church to Church to view their Nativity scenes. The Christmas market also entertained us.

Returned Wed from the Black Forest and stayed 2 days in Gengenbach. Their Fasnet/Karneval was grand and I liked it better than Rottweils.

They both have distinctly different things to do so base it on what you really like and want to come away with.

PS: when you stay in Gengenbach (at some locations) the KONUS card is avilable - free travel on any train in the region.

Spent a week in Bamberg specifically for beer in November 2007 (and too lazy to write a trip report). My husband and I are both beer hunters, and Bamberg was heavenly. He enjoyed the rauchbier, and I did not. If you do go to Schlenkerla, there is a fairly newish microbrewery next door called Ambrausianum which is worth a visit (for a beer, not so much the food).

Our favorite brewery in Bamberg is Kloster Brau...but perhaps that's the appel torte talking (oh. my. goodness.)

If you're in Bamberg on a Sunday, DO NOT MISS Griefenklau. It's a long hike from "downtown" but so worth it. They have a Sunday roast that is great, and good beer to boot. Even though I don't eat meat, I was able to get a large potato dumpling and the best creamed cabbage that I think could possibly exist.