ATTN Barb of Divas fame
Sep 25th, 2008, 05:59 AM
#1
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ATTN Barb of Divas fame
I have been trying without success to find your post (Oct 2005?) about your trip with the Divas. I fear I am about to embark on something similar, and would like to assimilate some of your wisdom.
Sep 25th, 2008, 08:27 AM
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Here, try this link:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34698212
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34698212
Sep 25th, 2008, 08:37 AM
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Be careful, be very careful 
Please read my report. You can prepare, you can have all the little talks before you leave, you can think you know someone, but I'm telling you, you never really know until you get there and then it's too late. A big red flag is if you ask them what they want out of this trip and they say, "Oh I don't know/care, whatever you want to do is fine with me, I'll just tag along".
I've had some really great trips since then -- solo
Seriously, it is a real gamble going with a group, although I think probably less risky than if you are just going with one other person. With a group it is easier to get away for a few hours on your own. My best advice is to make sure everyone knows ahead of time how they will handle certain situations, eg.. how to pay the restaurant bills, what each person wants out of the trip, can they survive on their own for an afternoon, what their eating habits are (have to eat early, vegetarians, only eat one meal a day -- things like that). If I ever were to attempt to travel with companions again, which I doubt, I would have my own room for sure and I would make it REALLY clear from the beginning that I am not the "guide" and that I require some alone time and they better be able to handle that. I think maybe the most important thing I learned from that experience is that, even for all the best intentions, you cannot make a trip a wonderful happy experience for someone else - they have to do that themselves and if they can't, or if their idea of a wonderful time is SO different from yours, just walk away and do not let it ruin your trip. Go do something you had planned, take a break from them and maybe meet up for dinner, or if that's turning out to be not such a great thing, for an after dinner drink.
I wish you luck -- would love to read your report when you get back.
Please read my report. You can prepare, you can have all the little talks before you leave, you can think you know someone, but I'm telling you, you never really know until you get there and then it's too late. A big red flag is if you ask them what they want out of this trip and they say, "Oh I don't know/care, whatever you want to do is fine with me, I'll just tag along".I've had some really great trips since then -- solo
Seriously, it is a real gamble going with a group, although I think probably less risky than if you are just going with one other person. With a group it is easier to get away for a few hours on your own. My best advice is to make sure everyone knows ahead of time how they will handle certain situations, eg.. how to pay the restaurant bills, what each person wants out of the trip, can they survive on their own for an afternoon, what their eating habits are (have to eat early, vegetarians, only eat one meal a day -- things like that). If I ever were to attempt to travel with companions again, which I doubt, I would have my own room for sure and I would make it REALLY clear from the beginning that I am not the "guide" and that I require some alone time and they better be able to handle that. I think maybe the most important thing I learned from that experience is that, even for all the best intentions, you cannot make a trip a wonderful happy experience for someone else - they have to do that themselves and if they can't, or if their idea of a wonderful time is SO different from yours, just walk away and do not let it ruin your trip. Go do something you had planned, take a break from them and maybe meet up for dinner, or if that's turning out to be not such a great thing, for an after dinner drink.
I wish you luck -- would love to read your report when you get back.
Sep 25th, 2008, 11:36 AM
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Want to make a little wager that my trip report gives yours a run for the money?
We haven't even left yet and already I am the trip nazi, and we are all irritated with each other. Whoever said that Fodorites were planners hit it on the head. I prefer to have at least a rough plan and do as much prep as possible beforehand so that I do not waste my valuable travel time standing in lines or going in circles. Or worse yet, standing around while waiting for others to decide what to do/ where to eat, etc. Not so my TCFH crew:
-Can't we just hail a cab from the airport in Venice?
-Don't tell me what I can and cannot pack! And I don't believe there won't be porters or bellhops around...
-I'm only bringing just enough for $50/ day for everything; we ought to be able to do the entire trip, lodging, meals and sights for that. (This despite an already agreed upon itinerary with lodging that is over that amount; guess we'll be doing a lot of yogurt and apples....)
-I left my wallet (cc, guidebook, camera, etc.) at the hotel.....
-I have to be careful about what i eat and hope to avoid unfamiliar restaurants...
-I don't like wine.....
-Let's just make it up as we go; making plans ahead of time is boring...
-I can't wait to sip vino in the piazza under the Tuscan sun and I'm only packing capris and sandals; I won't need a coat in Italy (we're going in November).....
--I don't care what we do as long as we all stick together.....
See the whole parade of red flags? Waving in the wind and rain? To top it off, this trip spends my travel dollar AND that my favorite TC, DH (who's a saint, by the way).
I plan to take his advice about being polite but not a doormat, but this is what I am doing, and they can come or not. I just hope there won't be much whining or sulking -- from me, that is.
We haven't even left yet and already I am the trip nazi, and we are all irritated with each other. Whoever said that Fodorites were planners hit it on the head. I prefer to have at least a rough plan and do as much prep as possible beforehand so that I do not waste my valuable travel time standing in lines or going in circles. Or worse yet, standing around while waiting for others to decide what to do/ where to eat, etc. Not so my TCFH crew:
-Can't we just hail a cab from the airport in Venice?
-Don't tell me what I can and cannot pack! And I don't believe there won't be porters or bellhops around...
-I'm only bringing just enough for $50/ day for everything; we ought to be able to do the entire trip, lodging, meals and sights for that. (This despite an already agreed upon itinerary with lodging that is over that amount; guess we'll be doing a lot of yogurt and apples....)
-I left my wallet (cc, guidebook, camera, etc.) at the hotel.....
-I have to be careful about what i eat and hope to avoid unfamiliar restaurants...
-I don't like wine.....
-Let's just make it up as we go; making plans ahead of time is boring...
-I can't wait to sip vino in the piazza under the Tuscan sun and I'm only packing capris and sandals; I won't need a coat in Italy (we're going in November).....
--I don't care what we do as long as we all stick together.....
See the whole parade of red flags? Waving in the wind and rain? To top it off, this trip spends my travel dollar AND that my favorite TC, DH (who's a saint, by the way).
I plan to take his advice about being polite but not a doormat, but this is what I am doing, and they can come or not. I just hope there won't be much whining or sulking -- from me, that is.
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:26 PM
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Good heavens, Jano, why are you even considering going through with this trip. No way would I spend my precious travel time and money on a trip I knew was going to be a disaster. Quit now while you can! And I wouldn't worry about whether they'll all be mad or not!
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:38 PM
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Yes, yes, I know....you are all right and even though I know what will happen, I am committed to going ahead. When I return and write the 2008 version of Diva Disaster, you can all say I told you so. I am only hoping for those solitary gem-like moments that shine so bright it puts all else in shadow. Maybe with expecting the worst, I will be pleasantly surprised.
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:51 PM
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Good grief Jano3, I am cringing. Why can't you back out? Well maybe you don't want to I guess. But it sounds like a nightmare to me.
I sure hope you will have your own room throughout this trip as you will need some solitary time.
I sure hope you will have your own room throughout this trip as you will need some solitary time.
Sep 25th, 2008, 01:09 PM
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Wrong again, we will be sharing quads and doubles, and a one week rental "villa" -- where one diva has insisted on not sharing a bed so one of us will end up on the sofa (hopefully her).
I cannot/will not back out because this trip was kinda sorta my idea, I bragged up Italy so much. Also, I am the only one with limited language skills.
On the plus side, this will be something of a "working" trip, in that I am scoping out future locales for artists to tour and paint. Considering the egos and eccentricities of a bunch of artists, this current group could be a cake walk. It will be good training of my organizational skills, patience, and good humor. At least that's what I'm telling myself.
Seriously, if I can't handle the divas, how can I expect me to handle strangers i don't even like? Or might that be better, because i don't have to. Hmmmm.
I cannot/will not back out because this trip was kinda sorta my idea, I bragged up Italy so much. Also, I am the only one with limited language skills.
On the plus side, this will be something of a "working" trip, in that I am scoping out future locales for artists to tour and paint. Considering the egos and eccentricities of a bunch of artists, this current group could be a cake walk. It will be good training of my organizational skills, patience, and good humor. At least that's what I'm telling myself.
Seriously, if I can't handle the divas, how can I expect me to handle strangers i don't even like? Or might that be better, because i don't have to. Hmmmm.
Sep 25th, 2008, 01:33 PM
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Jano3,
You might want to keep repeating this phrase to yourself.
When I was in Venice this past May, I heard a lady in the train station say this to a group of people surrounding her:
"Just because I planned this trip does not mean I am in charge of you having fun!"
Words to live by, I think.
Johanna
You might want to keep repeating this phrase to yourself.
When I was in Venice this past May, I heard a lady in the train station say this to a group of people surrounding her:
"Just because I planned this trip does not mean I am in charge of you having fun!"
Words to live by, I think.
Johanna
Sep 25th, 2008, 01:52 PM
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Wow, at least the Divas all seemed pretty "normal" before we left and I had great hopes -- your trip is in big trouble and seems doomed and you haven't even left. Well, knowing what you know now,and you still want to go, we don't want to hear any whining, lol. I can't imagine sharing rooms with these people. Maybe a miracle will happen and you will have a wonderful time.
Sep 25th, 2008, 03:51 PM
#17
>>Don't tell me what I can and cannot pack! And I don't believe there won't be porters or bellhops around...<<
I'm organizing a two week trip for 8 members of my book club. They don't know yet that they will <b>only</b> be allowed carry-ons. One of my co-conspirators and I are keeping that little detail secret for another couple of months. One week will be in a city so luggage is no problem - but the 2nd week we're renting a big farmhouse and 2 cars. 8 ladies, 16 checked bags, 16 carry-ons -- 2 cars. No way, no how.
But I've dealt w/ this before - took 13 friends on a similar trip and all managed w/ just carry ons (of course, first I had to teach them how)
So far so good for us - but your trip sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
I'm organizing a two week trip for 8 members of my book club. They don't know yet that they will <b>only</b> be allowed carry-ons. One of my co-conspirators and I are keeping that little detail secret for another couple of months. One week will be in a city so luggage is no problem - but the 2nd week we're renting a big farmhouse and 2 cars. 8 ladies, 16 checked bags, 16 carry-ons -- 2 cars. No way, no how.But I've dealt w/ this before - took 13 friends on a similar trip and all managed w/ just carry ons (of course, first I had to teach them how)
So far so good for us - but your trip sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Sep 25th, 2008, 06:27 PM
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Jano3, no offense, but do you think you are being a martyr? It sounds like not only will you have a terrible trip but the whole group will too. You aren't doing them any favors. So you bragged up Italy, how are you going to feel when they most likely will hate Italy and each other and probably you too.
Sit down and really think about what your true motives are.
Sit down and really think about what your true motives are.
Sep 25th, 2008, 09:18 PM
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Again no offense, but if you already think artists are eccentric egomaniacs as well as "strangers you don't even like," it's hard to imagine that that tour will be any better than this one.
Sep 25th, 2008, 10:23 PM
#20
I've organised over 10 trips for groups of 15 - 21 people. However, my trips were short with 3 nights each.
Some tips:
- make an itinerary for each day
- make sure phone numbers and addresses of hotels and restaurants are listed on the itinerary
- let people know they can deviate from the itinerary at their own responsibility and risk
- try to provide some free time each day
- don't start the day too early. It makes people crabby.
- a decent hotel with a good breakfast is essential for groups
- use group check-in at airports
- make sure people have marked their luggage correctly
- provide some down time with alcohol availability
- don't have high expectations of your group with the exception of: be on time!!!!!
- Delegate certain tasks such as: collecting money for the bill, figuring out public transportation at the destinations, map experts, language experts.
- Roommates are responsible for each other!
- Make sure you are having fun. If you're not, leave the group for a few hours to clear your head and do what you want. You've earned this freedom and you're group will understand.
Some tips:
- make an itinerary for each day
- make sure phone numbers and addresses of hotels and restaurants are listed on the itinerary
- let people know they can deviate from the itinerary at their own responsibility and risk
- try to provide some free time each day
- don't start the day too early. It makes people crabby.
- a decent hotel with a good breakfast is essential for groups
- use group check-in at airports
- make sure people have marked their luggage correctly
- provide some down time with alcohol availability
- don't have high expectations of your group with the exception of: be on time!!!!!
- Delegate certain tasks such as: collecting money for the bill, figuring out public transportation at the destinations, map experts, language experts.
- Roommates are responsible for each other!
- Make sure you are having fun. If you're not, leave the group for a few hours to clear your head and do what you want. You've earned this freedom and you're group will understand.
