They might be stared at but they should still be treated with respect. I'm more concerned about walking. European cities are made for walking and they'll be doing a lot of it. Will this be a problem?

Generally people are not unkind to strangers in Europe (they save that for friends and family). But I think it would be wise to see what the views are from individual countries. I'm struggling with 220Ilbs, is that 100kgs or 15stone on a 6 foot body? That is just at the top end of overweight not obese.

Do they dress ok? If you dress badly in Italy you might be stared at.

Schuler, my sister has always been athletic and has no problem with a lot of walking, even After gaining weight. My mom, even though she is big, walks a mile every day.

Bilboburgler, I think also because my sister is so tall for a woman *plus* being heavy, it's an issue. We heard everything from locals suggesting she was a drag queen, a man in a dress, and a line backer when we were in Los Angeles. She has long hair and dresses very fashionable, not at all masculine. One guy at a Starbucks even laughed when she requested whipped cream on her drink and said, "Are you sure? It doesn't look like you need the extra calories!"

People can be awful.

Why do you think they would have a problem?
I am obese and have never experienced any nastiness about my weight.

100kgs on a 6ft body is not obese, overweight yes, but not enough to cause people to stop and stare. Here in the Netherlands her height will be fairly normal, so even that won't attract attention.

Provided they have a good attitude to life, and treat other people with respect and friendliness they will be treated in the same way. They should not be self conscious and just enjoy their trip.

I think also because my sister is so tall for a woman *plus* being heavy, it's an issue. We heard everything from locals suggesting she was a drag queen, a man in a dress, and a line backer when we were in Los Angeles>>

doppio, i can't imagine anyone in europe being that rude to a stranger. I am no size 0, indeed I'm much closer to a US size 18 than i am to size 0 and no-one has ever said anything to me. indeed i have a friend who is truly obese and no-one has ever said anything to her either.

I think that your DM and DS might be pleasantly surprised as to the attitude they experience here.

You can google up pictures of tourists in all the places your sister is going. You will see plenty of photos of women the size of your sister and mother -- not all of them American -- at all the sights.

It is possible that your sister will be treated rudely because she is mistaken for a German tourist or a UK tourist or a Russian tourist, not always popular in every locale. Sometimes American tourists are not popular, period, no matter what their size. If she interprets every irritable look from a waiter or shopkeeper as a reaction to her weight, she may be drawing the wrong conclusions.

It is really not likely any European moved to comment on her weight will say it English.

IF your sister and mother don't speak any language other than English, they will have to come prepared to smile a lot and say "excuse me" a lot for asking other people to indulge them while they struggle with menus and buying things. They should learn to say "please" and "thank you" and other courtesies in 3 other languages or risk insulting the natives and getting dissed in return. But that is true even if they were rail-thin.

Europeans can be overtly judgmental about the way women are dressed, and some common American tourist "uniforms" on women-- walking shorts, fanny packs, crew socks and athletic shoes, women who wear men's t-shirts and baseball caps -- get put-down looks from European fashionistas. But again, that is true even if the women aren't an ounce overweight. The American suburbanite fondness for square-cut rather than curvy lines is sniffed at in some southern-facing European cultures -- not so in those more in tune with Angela Merkel.

I've noticed that in America that "overweight" women who wear clothes that show off their ample curves get put-down looks from other American women. But that is less so in Europe, so if your sister has some figure hugging clothes, she should feel free to pack them.

This reminds me of a time I went to a church women's group in Staufen, Germany. I was studying at a Goethe Institute and had taken advantage of an offer to go to this women's group.

The speaker was a woman who had spent some time in Iran, and she told us about it. There was a woman there who was blind. She made a comment about how women in Iran were overweight, though I don't think that's really the case.

I think she forgot that an American and and English woman were visiting the group, because she commented about how fat Americans are. I sat there as straight as I could sit, with my stomach sucked in, and tried not to look fat. I was of course, giggling to myself as I sat there.

By the way, I was overweight but not obese. Having someone talk about fat Americans just made me feel fat.

Oh, another story. My friend and I were in Málaga and stopped at a little outdoor cafe. The proprietor took one look at my friend, who weighs 260 but is very tall, and grabbed a larger chair for her. We cracked up.

I recorded that experience on my little digital recorder and when we listened to it that evening, we cracked up all over again.

I have traveled to europe with friends and colleagues who were plump or portly or stout or overweight or downright obese. I don't recall that any of them were ever treated in an unkind way.

And I certainly don't think that one has to be a size 10 to travel to europe. Despite what one might think, there are a LOT of europeans that are larger people. In fact, I would think they might get more negative feedback in CA than in europe. (You don't specify the kind of feedback - so I'm not really sure what you mean.)

However, there are a couple of things you should note:

Flying overnight in a very small coach seat might not be comfortable, especially for your mother. I don;t know her measurements, so I can't be sure. One consideration in selecting airline might be both the width of the seat and the room between rows of seats. (I'm only 5'9" and I have trouble with knee/leg room in the smaller rows of seats - but luckily have enough FF points that we do either business or first to europe. My DH is 6'3" and he simply doesn't fit in coach seats.)

Also, not sure how much walking they are used to doing - but vacations in europe typically involve lots of walking - even in cities. We typically do something like 8 miles a day or so - but being New Yorkers we are used to walking a lot (often will do that on a Sunday to work off brunch). But even for us after the 3rd or 4th day we may plan a day of less walking. (The good news is that even with the delicious european food I typically lose weight on vacation - perhaps 4 or 5 pounds in a 2 week trip - even thought I eat and drink more than at home.)

If they are more used to car travel I would suggest that they both get started on walking regimens to build up their stamina so that they are fully able to enjoy their vacation and not feel too exhausted by it. Or have to limit the things that they do.

Also, if they plan on taking any day tours with a group, they should know that the groups keep a steady walking pace - necessary to get through everything in the time allowed.

The only other potential issue is that in some european theaters (opera, ballet, concert, etc - especially older ones) - the seats may be smaller than in the US. Again, not a problem for your sister, but perhaps for your mom.

I definitely encourage them to do this trip - just be sure they are as prepared as possible in a physical way. they shouldn't worry about people being unkind.

I have some friends in Germany (actually a family) who are both obese and tall and they are not regarded as unusual - you do see quite a few "powerfully-built" people in Germany so I don't think your relatives will stand out in that country, anyway. You might even find you can get good clothes in larger sizes there. Ulla Popken is a brand I know from Germany that is plus-size.

Lavandula

And I certainly don't think that one has to be a size 10 to travel to europe. Despite what one might think, there are a LOT of europeans that are larger people>>

see above.

I think there are several differences in the European cities you mentioned compared to where they might have been.

These cities are ethnically very diverse, whether because of the immigrant populations or the visitors from around the world. When I enter small town local hang outs in the US, all the eyes would stare at me and they start mumbling to each other. In the big European cities you mentioned, no one cares. I am yet another of the hundreds of strange faces they encounter.

Another difference is that unless you go to low end chain store type of places, the businesses are run by professional people experienced in dealing with people with various needs. Contrast this to minimum wage clueless salespeople I encounter in the US who would rather be sending messages on their smartphones.

And finally, I think one's attitude towards others influences their reaction to you more than anything else. I have seen many instances where Americans showed condescending attitude towards store employees and they showed cold reactions in return. I suspect when they went back to the US, they would complain about the rude French people, etc, but in reality it was probably a tit for tat.

Sorry -

Note that the trip is planned for Paris, Florence and Amsterdam.

Unlike in the US - where it's difficult to tell what anyone is - europeans tend to look like what they are - not 100%, but in the aggregate.

So the French and Italian people will tend to be darker, shorter and often narrow or slender of build (although what I have seen on beaches in Italy - especially older men - is sometimes not to be believed). However, the Dutch are generally much larger, usually tall and often sturdily built.

I remember being in Stockholm - it is the only time I have ever not felt very tall - and blond. And the sample shoes in the store windows were my size - a 9 - not like the US, or other parts of europe - where samples are usually a 6.

People come in all sizes and shapes and your family should focus on enjoying the trip - not who is skinnier than they are.

>I am worried they may be treated unkindly

As mentioned, there's a large number of really fat
people in Germany, I mean really stuffed with nothing but junk food US style. Fatty, fat And yes, people stare at everybody, that's just the way we are. But then nobody really cares how you look, people mind their own business. It would be a lot of stress, picking on the fatties, wehen everybody is fat, wouldn't it.

<<Europeans can be overtly judgmental about the way women are dressed, and some common American tourist "uniforms" on women-- walking shorts, fanny packs, crew socks and athletic shoes, women who wear men's t-shirts and baseball caps -- get put-down looks from European fashionistas.>>

I think you'll find most Europeans couldn't care less what any tourist wears, except when visiting certain churches. It is a myth that Europeans give put down looks to people dressed as you describe. It is American Fodorites who do that on this forum. Europeans are far to busy getting on with their own lives to care much what any tourist, of any nationality is wearing. There are plenty of Europeans who wear trainers, bum bags, shorts, baseball caps. Get over it.

Your mother and sister should wear what they feel comfortable in, not what they think they should wear to match these mythical fashionistas in Europe.

Oh, for heaven's sake, "fatty, fat" - no, Logos, I didn't say everyone in Germany was fat (your word, not mine), but my friends certainly don't attract criticism for their size in their own environment. I make the point about Ulla Popken because I know it has nice clothes. It's no big deal. Australia (where I live) has the second highest obesity rate in the world, if you are looking to get critical!

My sister-in-law, who is tall and has extremely long feet, has a lot of trouble finding shoes in her size, but whenever she goes to Germany, finds she can get a fantastic selection of shoes and buys up big. She had trouble when she was living in England in particular and finds it difficult in Sydney anyway. So what if different parts of the world cater to different size bodies. Why not admit it?

Lavandula

Germans are fat, no big deal, simply looking around you. It's the way it is. Food stores like Lidl or Aldi offer clothes esp. for fat people. Several X's not just XL. Not a Chance to buy the once common M size. I believe it's in line with the food they're offering. It makes people fat, that's the intention anyway.

I want more M at Lidl! Cheap stuff in size M aka 48.

I cannot imagine anyone of any European nationality even giving you sister and mother a second look much less commenting on their size. The small town i live in sees many visitors in summer and some "sights" beggar belief. I would not worry about their appearance in that respect. We tend to keep our thoughts to ourselves and not comment on others appearances.

Anyway, German (and most other EU) size "M" almost equals US size "S", so always aim for one size bigger than you actually do at home.

Yes, people can be awful. But I have read far more cruel comments about people's weight here on Fodor's than I have ever encountered in Europe. (Fortunately, most of the comments I remember on Fodor's are from a pretty long time ago, and I don't see it so much any more.)

I have been trying to remember if anybody has ever made any comments about my weight in Europe, and I can only come up with the taxi driver in Lisbon, who pulled out pictures to show me from the glove compartment. I assumed they were pictures of his children; instead they were pictures of his weight loss. He insisted on giving me his nutritionist's card and telling me how much she helped him. (I have subsequently found a nutritionist much closer to home, who has helped me greatly.)

If I had waited till I lost sixty pounds before I went to Europe, I would have missed out on ten years of fascinating travel and I never would have met the many people who have enriched my travels and my life.

If you travel to Europe, you are likely to walk a lot more than in the US. My pedometer says I walk about 1 mile/day in the US while on an average day I walk 6 miles while in Europe and sometimes over 10 miles. Also, after eating at restaurants in Europe, they must might get used to more rational food portions than the gigantic serving sizes found at US restaurants. So I think waiting to lose wait before the trip is probably thinking backwards. They might lose weight after taking a trip.

When we started travel overseas other than to Canada, we realized after about one week into the trip, we needed to tighten our pants belts. We realized we were losing weight eating better food. We were sold on taking oversea trips ever since.

I am short and overweight. Over the years I've made perhaps 20 trips to Europe -- England, France, the Netherlands, and Belgium -- and I can't recall one instance where I was treated unkindly or felt uncomfortable because I felt I was being slighted or received rude comments due to my weight.

Los Angeles is such a looks oriented city where even a size 12 might feel "fat" -- with so many people there so obsessed with being a size 0, tan, and wearing skimpy clothing. It can make you feel very self-conscious about your weight and then you tend to read slights into everything. I think in this country in general there is more insensitivity toward people with weight issues than in Europe. I wouldn't be that surprised to encounter an outright rude or cruel comment about weight in LA.

Your sister and mother should go on their trip with their heads held high and they will have a wonderful time.

I travel to LA all the time for business. Don't start taking the LA idea of what people should look like as normal or realistic. It is certainly a looks concious city and not always in a good way! I laugh often because so many women kinda look the same because they have had the same cosmetic procedures! I am not overweght but I always feel like I am when in LA.

I hope your relatives will be able to recognize that the world is filled with mostly nice people....don't let the "nasties" get all your thoughts and attention. I agree that often times, different, in any way, will sometimes get stared at and the reason may not be weight at all. I hope you can convince them to just go and enjoy! Life's too short!

NO

I'd worry more about the size of my hotel room's shower stall than anyone being unkind.

I'm a size 10 and have had a problem in some of those tiny stalls!

Look for rooms that have a shower inside a real tub.

I can't imagine that they would encounter any direct rudeness or harassment in Europe because of size. Some places in Asia, on the other hand, quite possibly.

"I'd worry more about the size of my hotel room's shower stall than anyone being unkind."

This is not a joke. We once stayed in a hotel in Venice where the bath was so small that one had to step into the hallway to dry oneself.

Wow, hetismij2. Was it fun putting together that straw man?

Saying that Europeans can be a certain way doesn't mean that the majority of them are. The majority of people in LA in didn't insult the original poster's sister. The sister reacted to the few people who did very hard.

It's not a "myth" that the culture of Europe is different from the culture of America when it comes to being overt about checking out other's people clothes. One of the reason's you see so much comment on internet boards from Americans about people's dress is that under the cloak of anonymity, American feel free to say things they wouldn't dare to say face to face to someone in America.

The problem for the sister going to Europe is not really Europeans. The problem is if she goes to the Eiffel Tower, or gets on and off canal boat rides in Amsterdam, her chances of being around people from LA or Fodor's who are speaking English is pretty high. She won't understand what people might be saying about her in Dutch or French. If some American tourist wants to insult her, what is she going to do?

Not very likely, I should say, GA. I am shocked to hear that derogatory comments would be made in the US.

Back to European shops with gorgeous women's clothes in large sizes, Marina Rinaldi is very nice.

Yeah that's right. Europe is full of Americans travelling the breath of the Atlantic to slag of their fellow citizens. Do you ever actually read what you write?

Wow, more straw men. Must be a lot of hay laying around some people's mental barns today.

Here's a blog written by a French woman in the Netherlands commenting on other people's body types:

http://www.fitnesstreats.com/2011/05/european-womens-body-types/

The problem for Doppio's sister is that she left her familiar comfort zone and encountered overt discrimination. Her reaction has been to look for ways not to leave her comfort zone again.

It might be interesting for people on Fodor's to gas about their impressions of cultural norms in an effort to provide false reassurance and sympathy, but the truth is that nobody here can guarantee Doppio's sister that she won't encounter discrimination in Europe from fellow tourists or natives. It only took about 1 or 2 people to ruin Doppio's sister's other trip.

Doppio's sister can't control the world or other people. It's up to her to decide how she is going to deal with discrimination and rude people.

>>I cannot imagine anyone of any European nationality even giving you sister and mother a second look much less commenting on their size.<<

When people preface their advice telling you they have no imagination, especially concerning a fairly common situation of people staring at strangers, you're entitled to dismiss your advice.

One of the funny things about this Fodor's thread is that it exists amid dozens of other threads where American travelers to Europe describe one of the MAIN interests in going to Europe is to spend time "people watching."

What a huge number of Americans remember as the most enjoyable part of their European tour was just sitting in a European cafe or on a park bench watching Europeans walk by. They look at their dress, their shoes, their dogs, their purses and store purchases. They stare at their children playing. They take pictures. They blog about it.

They comment on European women wearing high heels, scarves, men in sandals or shorts. The whole nine yards.

But the notion that a European might be curious enough to look at a foreign stranger? What? Are you kidding? You mean -- it's NOT a television show? Those people can actually look the other way and see us sitting there? And have a positive or negative reaction?

Naw. Can't be true! They are just props for my photo-op! They're not -- gasp -- human beings with human variety and shortcomings like other people in the world.

PS: For those you with some imagination, try imagining this:

Imagine if Doppio had posted on Fodor's message board for California BEFORE her sister's trip. Imagine the title of her thread was: "Are the overweight / obese treated badly in LA?" Imagine if she sought advice about her sister not taking a trip to LA for fear of being laughed at for being large.

Now try to imagine the responses she would have gotten on Fodor's.

Now think about the reality of what her sister encountered.

Ideology isn't the answer to this question. The problem is that it is the wrong question, one that cannot be answered in reality. The real question is how Doppio's sister is going to handle the reality of weight discrimination.

Goldenautumn welsome to Fodors

Doppio, great advice above, generally cities are designed more for public transport ane walking than US cities (obviously a generalisation). Smaller helpings yes, though the multiple ordering system in Italy can be even daunting (you don't have to eat every course). Good point about showers and also beds are smaller (a Queen size in the states is a King etc in Europe). But all in all a 15 stone 6 foot woman is not enormous in Netherlands (not at all), Paris and maybe not in Italy used to receive tourism. Europeans are also used to tourists being able to speak multiple languages so they tend not to make comments in say french assuming you will miss the point.

They will have a great time.

I near you joannnyc....can't even shave my legs cuz I can't really bend over in the shower in Paris!

Treated badly in L.A., due to size? Huh? I'm from L.A. (over 45 years) and my siblings are a large size and very tall and a friend of mine is, too. They've been fine here as there are people of all sizes, although there might be a larger percentage of smaller-sized people here, in general, than in maybe some other places. I notice that when I go to some other parts of the U.S., that there seems to be a larger percentage of larger people.

As for me, I wear both size 10 (skirts) and some 12s (closely fitted tops) and I feel totally fine about my body and size here. No one gives me any problems at all with being my clothing size. I throw on some cool clothes, hit the streets with confidence, and usually get a lot of compliments. In my younger adult years, I fluctuated from a size 4-6-8 mostly, but feel and look best at a size 10 as I like having some junk in my trunk. I'm mid 50s.

Reading some of the negative, size comments about L.A. above, makes me wonder what part of L.A. these women were in who had the hard time here. Plus, size and culture can go hand in hand a lot and some from certain cultures can be more weight obsessed/weight conscience than those from other cultures. I worked over three decades in a part of L.A. where having meat on one's bones was/is seen as a beautiful thing and those women, of all sizes, have been fine here.

Happy Travels!

"....The way she was treated in Los Angeles has really caused her much anxiety about traveling again."

I've lived in the L.A. area most of my life. I have overweight friends. I've seen tons (no pun intended) of overweight people. I've never heard or seen someone treat an overweight person rudely because of their size.

hetismij2 wrote "Provided they have a good attitude to life, and treat other people with respect and friendliness they will be treated in the same way. They should not be self conscious and just enjoy their trip."

I agree. And that also goes for here in L.A. Don't be self conscious. Just go out with confidence.

Vanne wrote "Los Angeles is such a looks oriented city where even a size 12 might feel "fat" -- with so many people there so obsessed with being a size 0, tan, and wearing skimpy clothing. It can make you feel very self-conscious about your weight and then you tend to read slights into everything."

Yes, there are people who can become very self-conscious about their weight when they're here, but I don't see how that's the fault of L.A. That's their own stuff. And I also feel that they can tend to read slights into something else as Vanne put it.

People need to remember that we have great weather nearly year round and that the body is exposed a lot and there are a lot of people who take pride in keeping fit. We don't like being boggled down under a lot of clothing. Although I'm no longer a size 4-6-8 of my younger adult years, I don't begrudge those who are smaller than I am, not even the size zeros.

As for Europe, I've been going there almost annually since the 70s and have spent a lot of time all over Europe. As for Paris, where I spend a lot of time, I'm probably larger in size than a lot of the Parisian women that I see on the street. I don't let that get to me at all. I do get ticked off though when I walk into a clothing boutique and a lot of times can't find a size on the rack larger than an equivalent of an American size 8.

I went into a British designer boutique some years ago and there wasn't one size 10-equivalent on the rack. I was looking for a skirt. The salesperson said that the 10s were in the back room and had to go and pull them out for me. So, there is size discrimination. The saleswoman said that she also wears a 10, but feels big. I don't feel big, I just think that it would have been nice to not have had my size 10s tucked away in a back room. I shop at the same British designer boutique here at home and size 0-12s are displayed on the selling floor.

Happy Travels!

Maitaitom: I agree and I get so tired of L.A. bashing. Happy Travels!

Guenmai. you are a size 10 or 12, well sorry that not obese , not near obese really, and makes you abit unqualified to know what a person who is 100 lbls overweight may encounter or how they are treated.. you frankly fall into the "average " catergory( although perhaps years of living in LA make you think you are "big" ,, you are not)

OP. My real concern is if your mom can only walk a mile a day she needs to walk more before her trip, I walk at least 5-10 miles a day on my trip, admittedly I could walk a bit less( but I enjoy it) but she should really try to train for 2 miles a day at least. Also, in Paris, learn the BUS system , the metro will be a nightmare of stairs and some long connecting corridors. Buses are much easier .

I also think your sister and mom just have to ignore and turn a deaf ear to people who are rude enough to say anything, as you / they know, it can and does happen anywhere, there is always a butt head in the pot, ignore..

I think they will have a great time, but their weight will impact their trip somewhat, they must be careful booking hotels, I am a size 6-8 who has found some shower stalls VERY small, can't imagine if one was a larger person.. read reviews carefully for hotels, some will mention if shower stalls are upright coffins. I know a decent hotel in Paris with an open concept walk in shower,, but the room I had it in had only a double bed, you'd have to enquire if they have similar room with twin beds . Another thing, most rooms will be twin beds, or a double bed, almost impossible to find two queen beds unless you can pay $$$$$ for fancy hotels.

Occasionally I meet people from CA who have these weird frozen faces or young faces with old hands. Now they really worry me, comments may be passed about that Think Berlosconi.

I'm 8th generation American and of 100% German decent...and I'm overweight. I'd much rather spend time in Europe on vacation then here in the US. Americans can be fools and have no sense of etiquette or professionalism. My biggest worry in Europe is the assumption I am German, which is still not all that popular. With over 50 years traveling back and forth behind me not once has my weight been even a slight concern for me... tell your family to enjoy civilization!

"justineparis on Dec 29, 12 at 2:03pm
Guenmai. you are a size 10 or 12, well sorry that not obese , not near obese really, and makes you abit unqualified to know what a person who is 100 lbls overweight may encounter or how they are treated."

My siblings are in that category, nearly their whole life, as well as at least one very close friend and many whom I've worked with and they have not expressed having a problem with their size or weight except that doctors have suggested that they lose it. So, I'm speaking on their behalf and there are always discussions of weight among women. Plus, when I was a university student, I put on 45-50 pounds, during part of that 4-year education, but lost them all after graduation as I was then stress free, study free, and junk food free, and it didn't take a lot to lose the pounds. So, I can speak from experience during that period, back in the 70s and while still living here in L.A.

Happy Travels!

Traveling through France with my late husband, we had difficulty because he was 6"5" most beds were too short,
showers to narrow and short. I've only tried shopping for shoes in Paris and few carried my size 10.

I have a gay friend who goes to Paris often.
After losing a lot of weight, he said it's been the first time waitors hit on me.

Someone mentioned shoes, Paris sucks for big footed women( unless maybe you can afford the really nice ones) , I found all the cheaper shoes tended to be up to size 9 at most.. whats that , a 40 or so ..

And yes, being very tall sucks too, when I was with my ex we had to make sure to get beds without foot boards so his 6"4 body could hang off end, lol

"cigalechanta on Dec 29, 12 at 7:48pm
Traveling through France with my late husband, we had difficulty because he was 6"5" most beds were too short,
showers to narrow and short. I've only tried shopping for shoes in Paris and few carried my size 10."

Buying shoes in Paris is a pain for me, so I just stick to buying handbags and wait to buy shoes when I get home where it's no problem at all.

Once my feet passed a size 39, I think it was, then I guess I was to wear shoe boxes. My feet passed a size 39 in the 1980s. And I'm aware that there are shoes larger than that in Paris, but I don't feel like running all over town looking for them. It would be nice to just be able to walk into Galleries Layfayette, Printemps, Au Bon Marche, or the cool shoe boutiques on the rue Grenelle and other close-by streets and just buy a darn pair of cool shoes or boots in my size.

I once asked a shoe salesperson at either Printemps or Galleries Layfayette where she bought her shoes, as she was the same size as I was, and her answer was "Italy". Also,once while at either Galleries Layfaette or Printemps, I couldn't find any shoes and asked a salesperson for my size and was referred to the men's department where the shoes started at size 40.

As for showers in Paris, it's about using liquid soap because if one uses bar soap and drops it, good luck at being able to have enough space to bend over and pick it up. LOL!

Happy Travels!

Of course they should go to Europe but they should also consider losing weight for their next trip. This is not because of what anyone might think or say about them but because they will have so much more energy and stamina and will enjoy the trip more. I used to be obese but have lost a considerable of weight. It made all the difference on my recent trip to NYC. I was able to walk for hours and after stopping to rest, could carry on walking again with no problems whatsoever. I just didn't get tired out like I used to do. Talk about feeling 10 years younger! Also, anyone who loses weight will look better, which is good too isn't it?

good for you, Maisie.

however, many of us are not successful at losing weight however much we want to. also some of us are less mobile due to health issues.

should we all stay at home?

It seems to me sis & mom are not very comfy with their own weight / size if they worry about what others think of them. Sounds as if they're overly sensitive to the subject. I bet no-one will do anything or say anything about it but sis & mom may feel otherwise.

I wonder if when these people are gobbling down the food and deciding they do not need to exercise they remain "overly sensitive" about their weight. I suspect not.

And yes, there are things you can do about being "less mobile" and not successful about losing weight.

Sorry if I came across as flippant, Annhig. I'd been trying to lose weight for many years without much success until I finally realised that the only way to do it was to cut out fat and sugars and to eat less food generally. I kept my calorie intake below the minimum so I guess I could not help but lose weight. I don't know if there are medical reasons for obesity, perhaps there are - I'm no doctor. I just wanted to say that there are tangible benefits to slimming down. It makes travelling easier and I would encourage everyone to give it a go.

I'm pretty svelt now, but I was beginning to walk up the fat levels leading to medical issues and I decided that I had to change. I did the following, each of which was a wrench

1) Stopped adding salt to any meal or any cooking
2) Started adding herbs to meals
3) Stopped all pure (known) sucrose consumption (so no cakes, cereals with added sugar, factory prepared food)
4) Ate loads more vegtables and fruit while cutting back on potatoes (halved them over night) and then after the riding a fructose high to help me through the sucrose high I cut them down

The weight just dropped off, it was tough and going to the gym 4 to 5 times a day helped convert fat into muscle. Now I've thrown out a bunch of the old trousers, dug my very old 20s toursers out of the back of the wardrobe and wear them

Sorry if I came across as flippant, Annhig>>

just a little, Maisie, but then i probably came across as a little harsh as well, so i apologise for that.

that's the trouble about threads like this - they start being about one thing, and morph into something else. I'm sure that the OP knows, as do I, that to lose weight we need to eat less, and exercise more. Bilbo, yours is very good advice, [and congrats on the weight loss BTW] but if it were that easy, we'd none of us be fat, would we?

it's just this sort of thing which puts the OP's relatives off!

Own what you are. That does not mean you have to be arrogant, extravagent, or overt but be comfortable with who you are. Unless it is a health issue the just go and enjoy yourself.

I am short, bald, overweight, and wear glasses and I used to that to my advantage when I played recreational sports
because it looked like I could not play.

I was once on a flight in Italy and there was a fellow who was so fat, even with the seat belt extension, it only fit around his legs.

No problem Annhig - I'm probably still at the gushing stage about my weight loss and I know that no one likes to get lectured about things like that! Well done Bilboburger!

The reason for the OP's family members being overweight is immaterial. We don't know what it is nor how much it is under their control.

But at the moment they weigh what they do.

the OP wanted to know if they would be treated badly. My initial response was no - they would not be - based on experience of traveling with friends or colleagues who were various degrees of overweight.

However, I have now read the later posts and think that was an overpromise. While I did not see any of my colleagues treated badly it seems that the OP may be talking about a random comment by a single individual. And no one can guarantee that won't happen. There are jerks everywhere - and it's perfectly possible that one of these women may hear an offensive comment when walking around their own block or going shopping in their own neighborhood.

There is certainly no culture of discrimination against larger people in europe - but it is perfectly possible for anyone to hear a negative comment about themselves anywhere. There is no way they should allow that to prevent them from traveling. If the remark isn't about weight, it might be about height, or hair color (bad dye job) or any one of a number of things. When my parents were doing a lot of road trips after their retirement they heard several very negative comments about people from New York - which they either ignored or called the person on - based on the circumstances.

There is no guarantee you will not run into a jerk anywhere.

The only scenario where I thing they may encounter negativity is on the flight if they are unable to fit in a seat with the arms down.

Another thought is if a trip is actually a motivation for waiting and losing 60 lbs AND she actually does it, that would be a win-win for her.

There is not a single overweight person who does not know that it would be healthier and more comfortable to be lighter. Doing things like travel makes it easier to lose weight than staying home does. Waiting to lose sixty pounds puts off that positive activity to a time that may never come. You can't wait to live your life; you have to do it now.

well said, Nikki.

"You can't wait to live your life; you have to do it now."

But you don't need to wait for a travel vacation (with lots of walking) to exercise control over your weight issues now. Displaced priority? I don't know anyone who successfully used a vacation to lose wait and kept the weight off after they returned.

With the staggering increases in diabetes, the health care industry feels forced to take an aggressive stand. Someone has to try to help those who seem powerless to help themselves.

Fat = bad is the kind of negative press that's here to stay. God forbid you still smoke these days and cluster outside your office with the other puffers. We've reached a point where it's unrealistic to expect stares of compassion.

If you're fat, it's extremely difficult to fade into the crowd anymore. The larger the health concern, the more fingers you may find pointing in your direction. There is now a perception in the marketplace that obesity is causing everyone's insurance premiums to rise. The only way to protect yourself from that dreaded finger of blame is to get your weight under control.

Do it now so that you'll have a life of quality worth living.

you just couldn't resist it, could you, NYCFoodSnob?

you have NO idea about the lives of the OP's relatives, or anyone else here for that matter.

try thinking of something that YOU do that is bad for you? nothing? I don't believe it.

the problem with losing weight, [as opposed to stopping smoking or drinking, or taking illegal drugs] is that we HAVE to eat. and our sins are visible to the world, as you so sensitively point out. do you think that making people feel bad about themselves is a good way to encourage them in healthy eating?

no wonder the OP's relatives are worried.

"But you don't need to wait for a travel vacation (with lots of walking) to exercise control over your weight issues now. Displaced priority?"

Did somebody suggest this? The question is whether the op's mother and sister should wait until they lose weight to go to Europe. I say no. I say having a vibrant and active life is good for a person and makes it more likely that their efforts to lose weight will be successful. And that a trip to Europe can be fun at any weight.

There is a point, when you life is in imminent danger. It comes sooner than you'd expect. It's very simple to set your body weight to anything you desire. Get off junk food, only eat food you prepare yourself made from unprocessed ingredients. Keep blood sugar as constant as possible. Count calories. Depending where you start from, up to 150 lbs in a year is doable without problems.

logos - i repeat - you have no idea about the lives of anyone here.

if your statement "Depending where you start from, up to 150 lbs in a year is doable without problems." were correct, we would not have the nunbers of obese people that we have, would we?

it is clearly far more complicated, as anyone who gave the issue more than a moment's thought would realise.

I think this thread has got off topic, the original question was not about loosing weight but would the OPs relatives be subject to comment because of their size, not how or when or if they should loose weight before they travel. I still say that no one in Europe will make audible comments so tell your relations Doppio to come and enjoy and do as much walking as they feel comfortable with, then take public transport, buses, trains, boats etc.

>it is clearly far more complicated, as anyone who gave the issue more than a moment's thought would realise.

annhig, it's peoples CHOICE to be fat. They are obese, because they chose to be, whatever else they claim. It's not up to me, to judge anybody for their choice, but it's surely not someones fate to be fat. Losing weight is easy to do, IF you want to.

As someone who flys with the public everyweek,I really don't think that a size 18 is obese.There are so many people who are overweight that travel that I don't think there will be a problem. On my airline,we usually have 17 seatbelt extensions which nowadays are all used every flight.I would recommend possibly buying economy comfort seats if possible.

Your sister will not need any special seat, though comfort is always nice.

It's not her; it's L.A.

logos999 -

No, there are quite a few people that are overweight due to other medical issues. And even if it is a matter of overeating and underexercising - most of hte many people trying to lose weight would be more successful.

It is NOT easy - especially for people with hip or knee issues that prevent them from doing much walking. And losing 150 pounds in a year is not easy - it's practically impossible.

And this is a completely separate issue from providing advice on travel to europe.

I am always amazed at people who complain about posters giving "off topic" or "snarky" advice when they are simply giving information about someone's proposed trip based on their own experience.

But you feel free to give health and diet advice - completely unasked - and in a tone that shows your contempt for the OPs family. Talk about off topic, judgmental and inappropriate. Never mind being pure nonsense.

They are both overweight but neither of them are at the sort of extreme size that is really going to astonish people/maybe get a reaction.
You get random jerks anywhere, but generally they shouldn't have any problems/funny comments in Europe. Plenty of us around at that sort of size as well.
A lot of it is attitude/confidence as well. My best friend is 6 foot tall and very confident and outgoing. She gets just as many men chasing her now she's put on weight as when she was younger and slim. She's still the same attractive person. I can't imagine any one ever having the nerve to make a snarky comment to her. Whereas someone slinking around practically apologising for their very existence, without confidence, draws out the bullies who will use any excuse to have a pop; weight, height, hair colour, nothing ...
I hope they go and have a fantastic holiday.

In general, I would would worry much more about nasty attitudes from fellow American travelers than from local Europeans. That said, more worrisome to me would be the quality of sightseeing and your Mom & Sister's expectations. Going up some towers and sightseeing monuments (i.e. in Florence) is probably out of the question as there are parts that are narrow. I actually saw people turning around as they could not fit the stairway up. Is that a reason not to go? Absolutely not. I commend your Mom & Sister for their zest for life. If anything, I would encourage them to walk more (increments) carrying weights (4-8 pounds) in preparation for the trip. Also, to do 3 sets of low-impact legs stretching exercises BEFORE going for extended walks. It will strenghten the muscles around their knees and hips and will result in much less discomfort and fatigue.

I have travelled to Europe with an overweight companion and I never saw an instance where she was treated disrespectfully. She has gone back again and again and always enjoys herself. She is a wonderful, kind, and very courteous woman and that is what she gets in return. So simple, really.

BTW, the increased ratio waist to height is no longer an American trait; I travel to Europe frequently and see an increased number of British and Germans having weight issues.

nytraveler, my coment was directed at annhig, not you, yet you have chosen to interfere.

>overweight due to other medical issues.
Psycholigial "issues". Everybody has a right to be obese, but saying "medical issues would lead to obesity" is pure and utter nonsense. Obesity leads to medical issues that's a fact. You're confusing cause and effect.
Many people seem to feel they need to justity themselves for their body weight, they don't!!

A couple of years ago the BBC reported on the dramatic increase in overweight Europeans over the last 20 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11935525

France, Italy and the Netherlands are all on the lower end of the chart, but have still seen noticeable increases.

All of which is to say - viajero2 is right; being "large" is no longer a uniquely US problem. There may be some rude individuals in every country, but doppio's sister and mom should not stay home because of that.

I have traveled in Europe, especially France, at a variety of different weights. I don't go clothes-shopping while I'm there anymore, but I have never experienced any overt unpleasantness. The only comment I've ever gotten was from a former professor who hadn't seen me in about ten years and four dress sizes - you've changed, Barbara! - but then she laughed, patted her own hips and said well, I'm not the woman I was either, and we went out for a nice chat at a cafe.

A friend loaned me a book - I am totally blanking about the title - by a woman who spent a year in Paris with her family. It is written like a series of blog or Facebook posts. Amusing but not life-changing. Anyway, towards the end she has a short chapter on dressing, where she observes that there are heavy French women, but the big difference between them and their American counterparts is that French women, regardless of weight, will take their clothes to be tailored before they wear them. We try to fit into a range of standard sizes that don't work for anyone particularly well. As someone who, according to the fashion industry, should have a 36" inseam, I could relate to that. Now if only I could find a good tailor.

Sorry - but there are some medical issues - and specific medications - that do lead to overweight.

There are also injuries of various types - perhaps not even obvious - that limit a person's ability to exercise - making losing weight extremely difficult.

If it were that simple to lose weight, we wouldn't have so many people trying so many methods to do so - and failing.

You have tremendously oversimplified a significantly complex subject - but if you choose to just blame people - be my guest.

As for denigrating "psychological issues" - well, if you refuse to accept that people can have such - I hope you never suffer from one.

And "chosen to interfere"? Are you the king of the world - that someone would dare to "interfere" with your proclamations? Or are we all supposed to just bow down in front of you and accept your opinion on matters about which your knowledge is obviously fairly limited?

Sheesh - get some perspective on yourself.

"you just couldn't resist it, could you"

Resist what? I speak from experience. Take it or leave it. I weighed 300lbs my freshman year of high school. I don't need any wagging-finger lectures on fat sensitivity, thank you.

"you have NO idea about the lives of the OP's relatives"

And nor did my post address them directly.

"try thinking of something that YOU do that is bad for you? nothing? I don't believe it."

This is how you justify bad eating habits?

After years of diets, doctors, nutritional counseling and therapists, I finally learned the secret to good health and an enjoyable life: exercise and moderation. I don't really care whether you believe it or not, I don't over-indulge in any single food item or food group that might prove harmful to my health as I age. I love to eat but I set serious limits. And I've been living with this discipline since my early 20's.

"the problem with losing weight, is that we HAVE to eat."

If you suffer from a food addiction, it is the most difficult addiction to overcome. But millions do overcome it. If you eat as a coping mechanism, then we're talking about a different problem.

"do you think that making people feel bad about themselves is a good way to encourage them in healthy eating?"

When people are willing to sacrifice their body limbs because they refuse to give up sugar, fat, and white flour, please tell me the sensitive therapy you recommend. Sometimes a punch in the gut is the only way to save a life. I say use it if you have no other therapy that works.

"I think this thread has got off topic"

Weight threads never stay on topic. There are too many people who struggle with obesity and feel the need to express their frustration and/or justify the width of their girth.

I think that the only way to lose weight is to put yourself in charge of what you eat. Don't let food control you. You control it. My experience was that it didn't really matter how much I walked or exercised whilst trying to lose weight; what was crucial to my success was that fact that I cut down on food. I tried to eat no more that 1500 calories a day. Sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. That worked. Exercise as much as you like but at the end of the day you need to accept that you have to eat a lot less food than before. Those who feel they are too fat to walk or can't do so cause of joint pain can still shed the pounds by eating less. This should mean that in time they'll be able to walk and exercise like everyone else. Happy New Year!

It's o.k. to be fat, nobody has the right to judge you for your food addiction. It's and addiction, nothing else. No need to feel guilty for it. But discussing it with the addicts, will lead to nothing. Losing weight really IS simple, if they want it.

You get random jerks anywhere,>>

nona - you are absolutely correct.

I don't think you can generalize about what their experience will be. In major cities at least it seems locals really don't pay much attention to tourists one way or the other. It's not like they'll be having a lot of up close and personal encounters with local residents.

I worry more about the rigors of any Europe trip. Being that large/overweight concerning the long plane ride over, the amount of walking you do, taking public transportation, climbing a lot of stairs, etc. More about their own physical limitations, than what some stranger on the street might look or say.

>If anyone can offer any advice, especially on this subject, or if you are heavy, please post if you were treated any differently<

Doppio,

There are those people who are overweight and those people who have ugly souls on every part of this planet.

I am at least 100 pounds overweight and have been to 15 European countries over 10 trips in the last 10 years and have enjoyed every trip immensely. I have never heard (or at least understood) any nasty comments about my weight and if I ever did I would shake my head at that person's rudeness and continue with my adventure. A person with an ugly, hateful heart who would call strangers names or make fun of them are beneath my regard.

I have been thinking about this post ever since I read it yesterday. I do not think that the overweight/obese are mistreated in Europe, but I always feel much more aware of my weight in a country like France or Italy. (I'm a size 10.) In general, it seems to me that many Europeans are svelter than the average American, and whereas I feel pretty trim here in the U.S., I always feel somewhat oversized over there. I'm sure this is purely a mental thing, but it is how I feel.

I asked my husband who is overweight about this topic, and even though he is not overly sensitive, he does feel that his weight is more of an issue overseas. We talked more and it seemed that, like me, he is much more aware of his weight in Europe. Not because people stare at him or make comments or anything like that, but mostly because so many things are smaller -- some hotel elevators are miniscule, bathroom showers can be tight, seats at the theater are narrower etc.

In many cases, things are smaller just because they are retrofits -- modern conveniences shoehorned into ancient buildings for example. This size issue is not really a problem -- these items are big enough for most people, but for a sensitive person like your sister, the smaller scale of things may make her feel more aware of her weight.

I would never want this concern to keep anyone from traveling to Europe, but I wanted to give an honest response to this sensitive issue. I hope this post won't stop your sister from going but maybe help her to prepare herself mentally for a place where many things are smaller than what she is used to. Hopefully, she will realize that the smaller scale of some things is part of Europe's charm and not something that should make her feel bad about herself.

I recall an "incident" that answers your question about "obese treated badly in Europe".

I was standing in line at the checkout in a supermarket.
An 11 year old boy in front of me, asking if I'd buy him matches for a barbecue.
I said "Sorry, but no". He anwered "You do think I would set a house on fire, right?" It took a second for me to answer, I didn't want it to sound rude and he looked quite smart, but then I told the truth in a nice way: "I didn't think that far."

The truth is, people don't care about how you look and mind their own business. The 11 year old boy was naive and it's good that he still is at this age.

So that's the attitude people have about you and the way you look. As a tourist, you're a "dot" walking around.

I spent alot of time in Paris with an overweight person.
She is bright, interesting, lots of confidence and charms everyone she meets.

I'm a big fat slob and everyone, even in France, treated me well. In fact, waiters smile when I walk into an establishment.

Doppio, very interesting and provocative topic. I agree with Magster “…but I always feel much more aware of my weight in a country like France or Italy.” Reality check- mostly Europeans eat healthier and less than we do in the States.


Case in point – last summerI bought an ice cream cone in Paris, just around the corner from the Conciergerie for
€ 3.50. I almost broke up when the man behind the counter gave it to me because the ice cream itself was no bigger than a golf ball!

I was ready to complain, but then I looked around at the svelte Parisians and changed my mind.

Great replies.

>>It seems to me sis & mom are not very comfy with their own weight / size if they worry about what others think of them. Sounds as if they're overly sensitive to the subject. I bet no-one will do anything or say anything about it but sis & mom may feel otherwise.

I think that's part of it. However my sister heard some unkind things in CA, which led to this anxiety.

OP (if you're still reading this).

Ditto the comments that mean people are everywhere. They will be just have to "get over it" if they are judged.

I am "thin." I was wearing ugly tattered jeans, with ugly black rain boots on the Paris metro. It was raining. The snobby French girl who sat across from me for 30 minutes snorted and laughed at my outfit.

She probably thought I looked like a tourist. I did, and I was comfortable. On the other hand, I thought her skinny jeans and unwashed hair made her look like a hobo. But I didn't bother to snort out loud.

People make judgments every time they look at someone. It really "is just what it is." They just have to ignore it.

By the way, OP. I think it is very kind of you to care so much about your family's feelings that you'd even post this thread. How very thoughtful of you to care.

Doppio, when are your sister and mum going on their trip?
Are they still really concerned about this issue?

Hope they have a great time.