Are Legal Documents still needed if traveling abroad with child without father? (he's not on the birth certificate)
Jul 5th, 2007, 02:09 PM
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Are Legal Documents still needed if traveling abroad with child without father? (he's not on the birth certificate)
I am hoping to travel with my 1 year old to Europe (only a week.) in the Fall & have been pondering some things.
If her father's not on the birth certificate, do I still need to mess with getting legal documents? I read that the solo parent would need notarized approval from the father or court documents saying I have legal custody of my daughter. But, that info was saying it, as if the missing parent is always on the birth certificate.
So would it apply the same since he's NOT on it? When I went to get her passport, I have "sole authority" since my names only on it. So I didn't need him to get her passport. I am not sure if that would count the same for actually traveling with her though. All this "sole custody" stuff is confusing! Don't know who to contact to get the right info.
Yeah, I rambled...so sue me.
If her father's not on the birth certificate, do I still need to mess with getting legal documents? I read that the solo parent would need notarized approval from the father or court documents saying I have legal custody of my daughter. But, that info was saying it, as if the missing parent is always on the birth certificate.
So would it apply the same since he's NOT on it? When I went to get her passport, I have "sole authority" since my names only on it. So I didn't need him to get her passport. I am not sure if that would count the same for actually traveling with her though. All this "sole custody" stuff is confusing! Don't know who to contact to get the right info.
Yeah, I rambled...so sue me.
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:15 PM
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No - the issue is actualy the airline. They're the ones who decide if you get on the plane or not (they won;t let you board without valid paperwork).
I would assume it to be OK - given what it says on the passport - but would call the airline to double check.
(And the airlines' concerns are largely due to avoiding law suits from parents of children kidnapped by the non-custodial parent. Some of the foreign countries are more than happy to have the kids there - legal or not.)
I would assume it to be OK - given what it says on the passport - but would call the airline to double check.
(And the airlines' concerns are largely due to avoiding law suits from parents of children kidnapped by the non-custodial parent. Some of the foreign countries are more than happy to have the kids there - legal or not.)
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:20 PM
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Actually, nyt, the airline's major concern is avoiding the significant fines that are imposed on them by the destination country if they fail to assure that the passenger has the required documents. It is a pretty strong motivator and checking with the airline is not a bad idea, but the "horse's mouth" source is the consulate of the destination country.
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:18 PM
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"No - the issue is actualy the airline"
With all due respect . . ongwray, really ongwray. The immigration officers are the ones who let you into the country. Consular officials are charged with informing the public concerning immigratrion regulations.
As Seamus noted, the airlines are concerned only with avoiding fines.
With all due respect . . ongwray, really ongwray. The immigration officers are the ones who let you into the country. Consular officials are charged with informing the public concerning immigratrion regulations.
As Seamus noted, the airlines are concerned only with avoiding fines.
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:10 PM
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BlueSea, she IS getting a passport for the child--says so in her initial post and couldn't travel without it anyway.
The question is about the father's permission. Of course, you should go to a higher authority than those on a travel chat forum, but my first reaction is that, if there is no father listed on the birth certificate, the authorities in the foreign countries can't ask for the notarized letter from the man ON the birth certificate.
The question is about the father's permission. Of course, you should go to a higher authority than those on a travel chat forum, but my first reaction is that, if there is no father listed on the birth certificate, the authorities in the foreign countries can't ask for the notarized letter from the man ON the birth certificate.
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:16 PM
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Jul 5th, 2007, 07:22 PM
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"f there is no father listed on the birth certificate, the authorities in the foreign countries can't ask for the notarized letter from the man ON the birth certificate"
Excellent observation. What could those authorities want, then? Why not ask them?
Excellent observation. What could those authorities want, then? Why not ask them?
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:24 PM
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ewokie, according to Apostille, an international law consulting firm, you just need the passport and an original/certified birth certificate.
See the sixth bullet in the center of the page: http://apostille.us/Documents/Docume...letter_2.shtml
See the sixth bullet in the center of the page: http://apostille.us/Documents/Docume...letter_2.shtml
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:40 PM
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Hills27 - I just read that bullet and it seems confusing. It says:
"If only ONE parent's name appears on the birth certificate, and the child is travelling with the OTHER parent, then we also recommend that a certified copy of the child's birth certificate be carried." (My emphasis)
How will carrying the birth certificate help when you're not the person listed on it (thereby it won't prove your parental status)? In that case, I would think you'd need some sort of proof that you are the parent of the child.
However, if they meant to say:
"If only ONE parent's name appears on the birth certificate, and the child is travelling with THAT parent, then we also recommend that a certified copy of the child's birth certificate be carried."
In that case, having the birth certificate would show that there is no other parent.
Perhaps a typo?
"If only ONE parent's name appears on the birth certificate, and the child is travelling with the OTHER parent, then we also recommend that a certified copy of the child's birth certificate be carried." (My emphasis)
How will carrying the birth certificate help when you're not the person listed on it (thereby it won't prove your parental status)? In that case, I would think you'd need some sort of proof that you are the parent of the child.
However, if they meant to say:
"If only ONE parent's name appears on the birth certificate, and the child is travelling with THAT parent, then we also recommend that a certified copy of the child's birth certificate be carried."
In that case, having the birth certificate would show that there is no other parent.
Perhaps a typo?
Jul 6th, 2007, 04:06 AM
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I have never been questioned by customs but we have been thouroghly interviewed by airline personnel. Once in Zurich airport it took around 20 minutes so I was very happy that I was early for check in. They relented when I started pulling out the appropriate paper work.
ewokie, if this is weighing on your mind why don't you go to a notary and have a letter written up stating the (obvious) fact that you have sole custody of the child? I always try to err on the side of caution.
ewokie, if this is weighing on your mind why don't you go to a notary and have a letter written up stating the (obvious) fact that you have sole custody of the child? I always try to err on the side of caution.
Jul 6th, 2007, 08:44 AM
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I don't understand well this question...It looks to me like asking if a widow can travel with her kids..I don't think no one is going to ask for the father's death certificate...
I mean, if legally, there is no father( so , you are legally a single parent and you child has your surname)..who is going to ask about him ?
Another question would be if legally there is a father , even if you have the custody of the child..you need a permission to leave the country, because he still has paternal authority.
I mean, if legally, there is no father( so , you are legally a single parent and you child has your surname)..who is going to ask about him ?
Another question would be if legally there is a father , even if you have the custody of the child..you need a permission to leave the country, because he still has paternal authority.
Jul 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM
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Actually, kenderina, that DOES happen in some places; Mexico is especially cautious in this regard. Stop and think for a minute - the whole point is to avoid someone taking off with a child without the knowledge of the other parent. Someone trying to do that would have no compunction in lying, saying the other parent was dead when in fact they are not. So, documentary proof IS required. Doesn't matter if the traveling parent is single, never married, divorced, cohabitating, separated, widowed or if poppa was a turkey baster - the default assumption is that each child has two parents and when a child is accompanying just one parent that parent is required to provide some sort of documentation.
Jul 6th, 2007, 10:23 AM
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I think several people have missed the point. If you don;t have the proper paperwork the airline won;t let you on the plane. So - the laws of the arrival country are immaterial - since you never get there.
And there are several countries that are happy to take in children kidnapped by non-custodial parents. The pressure on the airlines is to prevent these children from leaving the country by NOT LETTING THEM ON THE PLANE.
So - first you have to be sure the airline will let you on the plane. The laws of other countries don;t come into effect until you get there.
You should, of course, check with your attorney - but I believe the "sole authority" on the passport (since otherwise both parents have to be present for a child to get one) indicate you can travel alone with the child.
And there are several countries that are happy to take in children kidnapped by non-custodial parents. The pressure on the airlines is to prevent these children from leaving the country by NOT LETTING THEM ON THE PLANE.
So - first you have to be sure the airline will let you on the plane. The laws of other countries don;t come into effect until you get there.
You should, of course, check with your attorney - but I believe the "sole authority" on the passport (since otherwise both parents have to be present for a child to get one) indicate you can travel alone with the child.
Jul 6th, 2007, 11:56 AM
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I travel alone with my children without their father back and forth from the US to Europe frequently. Years ago, I called Delta and asked if I needed any special documentation from their father. They answered NO - some countries yes, but Europe, NO. Per Delta, the countries that are YES include but not limited to Mexico, Canada, Caribbean. Since I have also flown BA and Virgin and both let me on with my children without their father. I have many American friends who do the same thing with their children without issue.
So if you "read somewhere" that you need all this stuff, I would just confirm with the airline that it applies to the country you are trying to enter.
So if you "read somewhere" that you need all this stuff, I would just confirm with the airline that it applies to the country you are trying to enter.
