Day 2 - the Orangerie Museum is closed Tuesdays. I'll keep reading your itinerary.

Day 3 - Since you're going to the Luxembourg Gardens you should move the Pantheon/rue Mouffetard to this day. Stop in Dallayou for some pastries.

Add the Deportation Memorial (behind Notre Dame) - it only takes a few minutes and you're right there. Stop to smell the lovely roses in the Notre Dame garden.

Wednesday is one of the days for the free Notre Dame tour (2:00 or 2:30). It's a great tour taking 1.5 to 2 hours. You'll learn lots about Gothic churches and Notre Dame. The exact time will be posted at the info booth to the right as you enter the church.

You can see the Eiffel Tower lights from the Seine boat if you book the one that begins on the half hour. Or from most of the Seine bridges. You don't have to go back to the ET to see the lights if you're short of time.

Day 4 - Have a list of things to do in the Marais so you're not aimlessly wandering. Paris Walks has a good walking tour of the Marais at 2:30.

Day 5 - visit rue Cler first and then the Rodin Museum to catch the street vendors. They may shut up by mid day.

I like the Marais but I sure wouldn't hang around there instead of visiting Versailles. I wouldn't waste time on the Rue Cler instead of Versailles, either. Other than the Rodin you have an entire day on Friday to go out to Versailles.

The rue Cler can be a quick stop en route to Versailles as it is very close to RER C line that ends right near the Versailles Chateau entrance.

I've had two holidays in Paris and have stayed in apartments both times. I enjoyed it very much, and it was nice to feel just a tiny bit like a local for a little while. We can be your concierge if you need help while you are there!

First, thank you all so much for your prompt and helpful replies!

Adrienne: 1. I should have caught that the Orangerie is closed on Tues. I think I'm in overload! Thanks for pointing this out. When would you think we could conveniently "pop in?" Not looking to spend a lot of time, really just want to see the water lilly room.

2. Re: " you should move the Pantheon/rue Mouffetard to this day. Stop in Dallayou for some pastries." Do you mean to move this to Day 1? If so, with the extra time, would you add Orangerie to this day? LOVE your suggestion about the guided tour. Will do that, as well as see the ET lights from cruise.

3. Re: Marais. I do need a list and an idea of the time we should allow. I've just not gotten that far yet. The walk sounds good, but we are about to "bust the budget" on walks and tours in Italy, so are trying to do what we can on our own.

4. Your opinion on rearranging to include Versailles?

Dukey: I was leaning in that direction as well. I think I could probably move the Rodin to another day. I just didn't want to be "seeing" so much that I didn't "see/experience" Paris. Versailles is still on the table.

PalenQ: Good to know this. Thank you!

Cathie: I just may take you up on that offer.

I did the Marais walk with Pariswalks - great and then go for falafel..

http://www.seriouseats.com/2008/08/best-falafel-las-du-falafel-mi-va-mi-chez-marianne-the-marais-paris-france.html

Kelsey - I've already added that our "restaurant list!" We love falafel.

If you do decide to go to Versailles there is a good argument for going a bit later in the day so that you can see the chateau after the tourist buses have gone. The first time I was there, the chateau was so crowded it was beyond funny. The second time we spent the day in the gardens and at Marie Antoinette's folly and loved it. You could plan to spend some time in the gardens first and then go inside at about 3pm.

My advice would be to calm down. What if it's pouring the day you want to go to Versailles? It's not as if every minute needs to be planned out - it's all going to go to hell anyway, once you get there. Chill. It's good to have a plan, but for goodness' sake, don't think you have to stick to it, and allow for some time just to wander or abandon your plans for something that strikes your fancy in the moment.

Here's another website for free walking tours where you pay a recommended small fee by a local Parisienne tour guide...do check it out: www.discoverwalks.com. We did a couple of tours before, and really enjoyed it...looking forward to doing a few more in June this year!

Thanks for that tip, Cathies!

StCirq: I agree with you 100%. And I thoroughly expect to be doing Tuesday on Thursday, part of Wed. on Friday, etc. etc. But like you said, it is good to have a rough plan, and that's why I posted here. Trying to get feedback on whether it was enough, too much, too little, and just general suggestions. And also why I didn't put Versailles into orginal plan. I want time to just "be" in Paris.

RG: Thank you for the link! I've bookmarked this one and Paris Walks. Both look like great (and cheap!)ways to learn about the city!!

<< 2. Re: " you should move the Pantheon/rue Mouffetard to this day. Stop in Dallayou for some pastries." Do you mean to move this to Day 1? >>

Yes - I did mean to see the Pantheon/rue Mouffetard on day 1.

The Orangerie is a small museum so I would go through the whole exhibit and not short change it. IMO it probably falls best on the day you visit the Rodin. If you're tired or concerned that you're not fitting in everything you want to see you can just visit the Rodin gardens (E1). It's delightful (although I hate the new entrance) and there is enough sculpture in the garden to get a feel for Rodin. There's a cafe behind the museum to the right of the pond.

Are you convinced you need the museum pass (E54)? It's quite pricey and you're on a budget. The combined Orsay/Orangerie ticket is E14 and good for a 4 day period. Rodin Museum is E9, Ste-Chapelle is E8.5, Versailles - E18 (for the entire palace). That adds up to 49.5 but you're not sure you're going to Versailles so the 4 museums would be 31.5 if priced separately.

The museum pass does allow bypassing the lines but you can buy an on-line ticket for the Orsay/Orangerie, the Rodin doesn't usually have long lines and you cannot bypass the security line at Ste-Chapelle. I've never seen a line to get into Ste-Chapelle and I've been there a few times. Most of the people in the security line are not going into the chapel.

I would try to see Versailles, even if you don't do every tour and just see the general palace and gardens. One time I went to Versailles and stopped at the ET on the way back since the ET is on the same RER line as Versailles. It was a long day but I found that the lines for the ET were minimal at dinner time.

I agree with the comment above about rue Cler - it's just a market street and nothing special and you'll have visited rue Mouffetard (really best on Sundays). I suspect you may be using a Rick Steves guide book. If this is so please also consult at least one other guide book that is comprehensive. Rick does not cover all Paris attractions.

I actually really like the Rue Cler and often stay near it, but Rick Steve's take on it is really crude and results in a horde of folks having breakfast there at all the "American breakfast" places with his backpack stickers on their backpacks and their RS guidebooks and just a maelstrom of ignorant tourists, so I never go there in the morning. In the afternoon and evening, it's a normal Parisian neighborhood, except for the folks who get suckered into eating/drinking at the odious Café du Marché, where the blood on the waiters' aprons should be a fair warning of what's to come out of the kitchen.

Re D'orsay/Orangerie - consider visiting on a Thursday as the D'orsay stays open late to tour both no queues!!

Adrienne - Thanks again for your very comprehensive comments. I'm very grateful to have all of this information.

Re: Museum Pass - we are also seeing the Lourvre (see Day 3, Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, Sacre Coeur, Opera House, and possibly Espace Dali. Are there not admissions for these also? We are on a budget, but not a tight one. I assumed the walks in Paris would be priced like those in Florence and Rome, which are running anywhere from E50-110 EACH! E12 is a steal and we may do several. Another reason for buying the pass is so we can go into places we might otherwise skip and not feel as though we have to "get our money's worth."

I am in the process of tweeking the plans and did put Orangerie and Rodin on the same morning. Still on the fence about Versailles. My big no-no is overcrowding and feeling like it was all a whirlwind. I've made that mistake before, and while it seemed good at the time, in hindsight, I wish I had taken things in more instead of rushing from one thing to the other.

Re: Guidebooks - I do not have one yet. I've not looked at the Rick Steves. I've looked at other destinations of his in the past, and just didn't like the style. If you have a recommendation, I'd be happy to hear it. I tend to agree with your Rue Cler assessment, but not having not seen it, I think it's worth a look.

Typically, I check out several from the library, use the internet and type up my own "guide book" that I take with me on my tablet. It's been years since I've actually purchased a guide book. Usually my notes, a good map, and the information at the actual sites are enough. For Rome, I may have to reconsider, esp. the collesium where I understand there is no guidance at all, but Rome will be another board.

rg: We are visiting D'orsay on Thursday. I didn't realize Orangerie was open late on that night also. This is good to know, and that might make more sense than the way I've rearrange things. Thank you!

Need to clarify what we did, we bought tickets late afternoon at Orangerie, toured in relative comfort till closing time around 5 from memory, then went off to D'orsay which closes at 9.45 pm, no queues! apologies to have confused you!!

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like a solid, logical plan!

REVISED - Based on the great feedback, I've rearranged to try to include Versailles. Since, for us, it's not a "must see," I put it on the last day in case we didn't get everything in on the first 4 days or just wanted to do more of central Paris. Opinions and more feedback, please. Specifically, does this look too jammed, and if we don't do Versailles, what would you add for Friday? I'm quite tempted after seeing the prices, to add more walks, but that would require skipping Versailles. I don't mind being busy, but I don't want to be constantly on the move with no time to just "be in Paris." Thank you all, again!

Day 1, Monday, May 13
Arrive CDG 8:40 hit the streets by 11:30.
Explore St. Germain area and Luxemburourg Gardens, Panthéon Mouffetard, and the Latin Quarter. Shop for apartment things, go back to apt to drop off goods and freshen up. Have an early dinner and call it a night.

QUESTION: Is an afternoon enough to explore the above areas in a relaxed way without rushing. I know one could spend months exploring these, so that is not what I'm asking. I'm asking from a tourist's viewpoint.

Day 2, Tuesday, May 14
Eiffel Tower early in the day
Arc de Triomphe
Champs Élysées
Place de la Concorde
Tuileries Gardens.
Lunch.
Métro up to the Opera House and to Montmartre. See Sacre Coeur and go to the rooftop and walk around Montmartre. Go to Place du Tertre. If time permits, photo in front of the Moulin Rouge and maybe a quick trip into the Espace Dali.
Back to the apartment; freshen up for dinner in the Latin Quarter.
Evening cruise on the Seine.

QUESTION: Approximate time needed to do afternoon activities.

Day 3 – Wednesday, May 15th
Morning: Rodin Museum
Afternoon: Go to Deportation Memorial (behind Notre Dame), Notre Dame garden, then do the Wednesday free Notre Dame tour (2:00 or 2:30). Last, Sainte Chapelle and stroll around the islands.
Evening: Lourve (open late); Dinner, then climb the Arc de Triomphe for a night view.

QUESTION: Night view versus day view from Arc? I only plan to climb it once. Felt like I'd have many opportunities to see day views. Also, is it worth climbing? We don't have to climb everything!

Day 4 – Thursday, May 15th
Morning: Explore Marais (maybe a walk) and/or wander, shop, revisit places we really liked
Late Afternoon: The Museum d’Orsay and Musee de l'Orangerie (both open until 9:45pm today)

Day 5 – Friday, May 16th
Versailles – on the way see Rue cler.
Get back in time to go to Shakespeare & Co. Bookstore for the 7:00 reading, followed by dinner.

I am glad you have left Versailles for the last day. You may decide you want to do more in Paris.
On your first day you could take the Seine boat ride. It is undemanding and a good intro to Paris. We like it late in the day as the lights are just coming on. I don't know what time that would be in May.
Another museum you might like to add is the marmottan and I don't see the Cluny or Carnavalet on your list.

Here is just one traveler's opinion, everyone is different.

I agree with all that you want to see but IMO, take every other place out. Paris is not something you "do" it's something you experience. Unless you plan to rush from site to site, take a quick photo and move on, you have way too much on your plate. You will miss the "feeling" that is Paris.

In the Marais, Place Vosges(coffee or lunch) and The Carnavalet Museum(maybe 1-1/2 hrs,) are some of our favorite places.

IMO, I'd save the Pantheon and Mouffetard for another trip---for us it was just something to see after many trips. Exploring the St. Michel-St. Germain area & Lux. Gardens is more fun. Now if it happens to rain, add The Pantheon.

Also, IMO, you have way too much packed into Day 2. I'm going out on a limb hear to say that the Champs was one of our biggest disappointments in Paris. I know everyone (including us) wants to walk it but it's long, extremely busy, full of car dealerships and businesses, and some mall type shops that you find in almost every city at home. If you want shopping, Galleries Layfayette(near the Opers House) or the streets around St. Germain, Ile St. Louis, The Marais, or for extreme high-end around the expensive hotels in the 8th.

I'd do the Eiffel, the Arch then on to the Opera House & Montmartre. You can see the Tuilleries & Pl. Concorde when you go to The Louvre. or The Orangerie.


I like your Day 3 because The Rodin is small and won't take that long so you have plenty of time to enjoy the rest of your plan for that day.

Versailles is an experience you won't forget so try to keep that in the plan for Fri.

We have been to Paris many times and I have to say that there are so many places you will come upon where you will just want to stop and savor the moment.

Also, put in your plan a return trip because once is just not enough for this wonderful city.

Museum Pass - I did not see the Opera Garnier or Espace Dali listed on the pass as free entry. Sacre Coeur is a church and free. Arc de Triomphe is E9.5 and included on the pass, Louvre E10 (although there is a discount for late afternoon/evening admission). You need to figure out which way is more economical for you.

Paris Walks are fabulous, that's why I mentioned them above. They are reasonably priced and all guides are certified. I've taken about a dozen of them and have enjoyed them all.

I do the same thing as you with guide books. I've been creating my own guides for years. If you want, I can send you what I have in Word format. If there is any pricing or hours they will have to be verified as they are not up to date. My email is in my profile - click on my name for access.

Updated itinerary feedback:

<< Is an afternoon enough to explore the above areas in a relaxed way without rushing >>

Yes - the area is not large. There is a Paris Walks tour of the Latin Quarter on Monday at 2:30. I would try to do this if you feel up to it. There is no reservation - just show up at the appointed time and place. After the tour you can stop and get some prepared foods and eat in and have an early night.

Day 2 - it depends on the lines for the Opera House. Are you taking a tour or going through on your own. The tours sell out quickly. You do have enough time to see these things in the afternoon.

Day 3 - the Rodin Museum is not large and unless you are spending a lot of time looking at each work you can see Ste-Chapelle before lunch. The Deportation Memorial closes from 12:00 to 2:00 (approximately - I can't exactly remember the times but they are posted on a plaque). There are cafes for lunch around Notre Dame - basic food - salads, sandwiches.

Accessing the Deportation Memorial - this is tricky and I think that's why so few people see it. Directly behind Notre Dame is a garden with shade trees. Directly behind that is a street (the easiest way is to walk through the garden (away from the church) and cross the street). You'll see iron fencing. Look for the low white plaque at the entrance to the Memorial. The Memorial is down some steps and not visible from the street. Even though it hasn't been maintained and is looking a bit tacky it has an interesting concept and makes you think. Read a description on line about it before you go so you understand it.

Is the AdT worth climbing? I'm lazy - I paid for the elevator.

BTW just a small point that's driving me crazy
- It's Louvre, not Lourve.

Day 1 - at the bottom of rue Mouffetard is a nice cafe - Duke de Bourgogne.

Then you can wander over to the Mosque, visit (doesn't take long). As you're leaving the mosque, turn to the left and then left again at the corner (and then possibly left again) and have some mint tea and cookies in the delightful garden.

This photo plus the next 6 or 7 will show some pix of the mosque and garden.

http://modigliani.shutterfly.com/paris2007/126#123

Right next to Sheakespeare is a small restaurant called Le Petite Chatelete. We arrived for an early dinner on a week night without reservations in January and were seated without any problem. In May you might need reservations, especially on a Friday night.. We really enjoyed our meal here.

Keep in mind that some things you want to do, especially Ste.-Chapelle and Notre Dame, need sunlight. Stained glass is not interesting without it, and these two places have the world's best glass. Watch the weather forcasts and re-arrange days if needed.

TPAYT - This is not the first time I've read that the Champs was a big disappointments. Perhaps we will just take a look at a section of it and skip walking it in its entirety. Thank you for that feedback and the idea of combining Tuilleries & Pl. Concorde with other sites. Thanks also for the shopping tips and affirming our choice to see Versailles. I definitely plan to have "GO BACK" on my Paris "TO DO" list!

Adrienne - I will message you. I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate your time and very generous help. You've truly gone above and beyond! Sorry about the misspellings. I do know better, but it's not something I type often, and my fingers aren't always doing what they should.

Allisonm - I have copied your restaurant suggestion to our itinerary. Thanks so much!

Just want to add my opinion about the Champs - sterile, boring, waste of time. Arc de Triomphe is fine, as is Place de la Concorde, just don't waste your time traversing between them on the Champs.

StCirq - thanks for confirming that. I do think we'll pass on traipsing from one end to the other.

Whew!! Totally agree with StCirq and TPAYT. I understand where you're coming from -- and have been there myself -- when, in 2010, my wife and I made a similar one-week trip. I would recommend less structure; prioritize what you want to do; and do what you can -- remembering that factors like the weather could intervene. Start out with a double-decker bus tour to give you a feel for the city and the lay of the land. Although it may be too laid back for you, I like the idea of doing only one major activity each morning and afternoon. After dinner at a neighborhood brasserie, just walk around, as it stays light until after 9. Since our trip in 2010, we have returned to Paris each year -- and recently spent 3 months there near where you will be living. We enjoyed it tremendously!! You picked an excellent neighborhood. We absolutely adore the Luxembourg Gardens, which you should take the opportunity to walk through at various times of the day and early evening while coming from and going to your apartment. If you like coffee in the morning, you might try a small coffee/snack shop run by an American expat on Rue d'Assas near Rue de Rennes (not far from your apartment). Also, we enjoyed the Oudinot Restaurant on the same-named street in the 7th Arondissement, near Boulevard Invalides. Trés français. I too would recommend the Paris Walks tours, especially the one in Marais. Not that you have any more time, but we also highly recommend for your consideration two other smaller museums -- the Marmottan Monet (an Impressionist gold mine in the 16th Arondissement) and the Jaquemart-André (18th c. paintings in a 19th c. house in the 8th Arondissement -- go for a light lunch or afternoon tea!). You may also want to visit the Cluny (especially the 15th c. tapestries), near your apartment. And, have you considered the Père-Lachaise Cemetery? You could go there after visiting the Marais. Have fun!!!

Bill - You echo my sentiments exactly. I've accepted that we can't do it all; it's just so darn hard to choose what NOT to do as it's all so wonderful. My daughter and I both love impressionist art. I have the Marmottan on my "2nd list" which are things to do if the first ones don't work out due to weather, etc. I am not familiar with the Jaquemart-Andre, but I have considered the Cluny, if for nothing else to see the unicorn tapestry. Probably will not get to the cemetery this trip. As appealing as it sounds, for me, that's a 2nd trip item.

I appreciate the restaurant tips. We will be staying about 2 blocks away from the St. Michael metro stop, just off of Rue St. Andre des Arts. Looking at street view on Google, there seems to be many dining options in the area, but personal recommendations are always the best! Thank you for your comments!

Here's our favorite place on Ile St. Louis. We've been here many times, it's a "must" on every trip. They have a 36 Euro, 3 course dinner and the room is charming.
http://restaurant-ilotvache.com/index.php?l=fr&e=1&mod=0&inco=presentation

This was our new find Sept.'12. On the left bank across from Notre Dame. Small, lovely room, excellent food. This definitely goes on our "return to" list.
http://www.lereminet.com/

TPAYT - Thank you - both of these look AMAZING! I know this sounds "gauche" but I was happy to see both websites and menus offered in English. I speak no French. I am learning a few basic phrases for the trip but was wondering how I would decipher an all-French menu. One certainly can't expect the waiter to explain every item! Both of these are also within easy walking distance of our apt.

Question: What does "Net Price" or "Prix nets:tva 7%" mean on the menu? Is this the bottom line or the price before VAT and tip? I've not gotten this far in my research yet, so any "dining" tips are welcome! I have learned that entree is an appetizer and the distinctions menu and carte, but beyond that, I'm fairly clueless.

I know what you mean as our French is definitely not up to par. This has really not posed a problem in Paris for us. Both of the restaurants I mentioned, and many others, have English menus plus the servers speak enough English to be of help. I usually can read French for the meat or fish but where I have trouble is in the part of the animal it comes from(no sweetbreads for me.)

Even with very little French you will be fine in Paris. Just remember that politeness counts so always greet--Bon Jour Madam, please and thank--SVP, Merci, and you will be fine.

The service charge is included so no tip is required but we usually leave a few Euros extra. If you charge dinner there is no place to add a tip.

Just for an example: I looked up our bill at L'Ilot Vache last Sept. and it was 92 Euros for 2-3 course price fix dinners along with a 1/2 bottle of Rose and coffee including all charges. Not bad for Paris and good to boot.

Le Reminet was more expensive but we had a full bottle of more expensive wine. We got a great deal though. The bill was 135 Euros but by booking on line ahead of time we received 40% off for a final cost of 97 Euros. I don't know if they still are featuring that perk but you could check on it.

TPAYT - "I usually can read French for the meat or fish but where I have trouble is in the part of the animal it comes from(no sweetbreads for me." Ditto, so I'll present this to you: I've been told that I MUST try foie gras. I've had it in the US and am not a fan, but in Paris maybe it's better. Your opinion? Thanks for the additional information - I will be sure to look for that discount as it's quite generous!

I think you are smart to be flexible on Versailles. We have been to Paris twice, but never made it to Versailles. Both visits, we decided to stay in Paris, because we still had places in town to wander around. We were glad we stayed. I am sure Versailles is gorgeous, but Paris might just pull you in!

Secondly, do not be concerned about not having a concierge. It is not true that Parisians are unfriendly. We had no problem at all, getting around without speaking French. You will be fine.

We were in Paris last fall. Two restaurants we liked are Le Petite Prince de Paris, in the 5th, near the Sorbonne. http://www.lepetitprincedeparis.fr/

Across the street from Le Petite Prince is Le Coupe Chou, where we also ate, but preferred the other one much better.

And one restaurant on Ille St Louis, which we returned to because we'd liked it so much our first visit. Le Caveau de L'Isle. http://lecaveaudelisle.com/

Both of these restaurants have wonderful food, but neither is intimidating or snooty. Le Caveau has had the same chef/owner for about 40 years, and service is perfect.

PS. I forgot to recommend the Batobus, boat transportation on the Seine. You can get one day or multi-day hop on/hop off passes. It stops at all the major sites. It's a nice way (and inexpensive) to see the city from the River. Be sure to do it after dark at least once. The Batobus does stop running around 9 p.m., so be aware of that.

MDH absolutely loves foie gras which is odd because he usually only likes very plain, basic food. For me it's just OK. Of course, some is better than others as in any food. Maybe give it try and see what you think. Since you're in an apt. you could buy a little in a shop and try it on some bread.

What I love in France is lamb chops(especially good at L'Ilot Vache.) Something we both can't get enough is dauphinnoise(sp?) potatoes. They are served many places (again great at LiLot Vache.)

http://s708.beta.photobucket.com/user/TMPAYT/media/LIlot%20Vache-Paris/France12-1019_zps53d72eb7.jpg.html?sort=6&o=1#/user/TMPAYT/media/LIlot%20Vache-Paris/France12-1019_zps53d72eb7.jpg.html?sort=6&o=1&_suid=13607060110780511233603514939

A couple of things we've learned in our visits that might help:
Always order tap water in the restaurants, the water in Paris is just fine to drink and you won't be paying a high price for bottled water.

When you exit into the lobby after customs, there is an ATM on your left for easy access to some Euros.

Head the other way (right after exiting) towared the RER train into Paris. You will see some Info (accueil) booths along the way. We stopped and they sold us our tickets on the RER. When you come down the escalator and see the long lines for tickets you'll be glad you already have one.

Here's a few photos from Le Reminet
http://s708.beta.photobucket.com/user/TMPAYT/media/Le%20Reminet-%20Paris/France12-1023_zpsefa88ff8.jpg.html?sort=6&o=2#/user/TMPAYT/media/Le%20Reminet-%20Paris/France12-1023_zpsefa88ff8.jpg.html?sort=6&o=2&_suid=136070616120305037829041447076

We have also been to Le Caveau de L'Isle and enjoyed it.

PeaceOut has a point about Versailles and staying flexible. We loved the Louvre courtyard but didn't enter the museum until our 3rd visit as it's very overwhelming. I'm sure you'll get a feel for what you want to see as you go along.

For us, it's not what we see in Paris, It's the feeling we have when we are there. Sometimes sitting in a cafe with a glass of wine, watching the world go by far outweighs standing in line to get in an attraction.

After all this reminiscing about Paris I want to be there. I'll be watching for your trip report. Have a wonderful trip.

I don't know if you are going to the Louvre, but we discovered there was practically no waiting line for the museum, where the subway drops you off. It is underground, of course, and I think people must line up outside more often.

sorry if this is repeating info you've already had, but if you felt like it on DAy 1, you could see the musee du moyen age [aka the cluny] which is in St. Germain - very pleasant and uncrowded.

also, I know that scorn is heaped upon the Champs Elysees but following Monty Don's programme about Gardens of France, i am looking on it with new eyes or rather old ones, because it was part of the redesign of the Tuilleries by the great C17 gardener Le Notre who also designed Versailles for Louis XIV. this was subsequently extended out to La Defense, which extends the "allee" out to over 5 kms [or was that miles?]

TPAYT - I'm drooling on the keyboard having seen the lamb chops. One of my favorite things! Great to know that Paris does them well! Thanks so much for the RER ticket tip. After a trans-atlantic flight, nothing worse than a long line . . .

PeaceOut - Thank you for the restaurant and line-skipping tips.

Annhig - Have not received that suggestion. Making a note of it now. ty! I will be starting an Italy topic soon. I'm sure you will be weighing in and look forward to your expertise and opinions. I see you on many of the Rome threads.

darlene - when are you going to Rome?

I'm off there on Sunday along with 5 others from my italian evening class, 5 A level students [they're 17-18] and our italian teacher. w're doing italian classes in the mornings, excursions in the afternoons, and hopefully, eating in the evenings. We'll be staying near the Vatican nearby to the language school.

I'll certainly be reporting back!

Ann- Itinerary is:
Paris - 13May - 18May
Florence - 18May - 22May
Rome - 22May - 27May

I'm looking forward to your report! We will be staying in an apt. in the Pantheon area. Looking at booking tours for the Vatican and Colosseum since they are so massive. Good idea? I've looked at Context and while highly rated, seems like more information than we need. Any opinions on Walks in Italy versus Through Eternity? I've got it narrowed down to these two, but nothing is cast in stone yet.

Will wait until you get back to post itinerary so it doesn't get buried. There's still plenty of time.

For the Vatican, you can reserve on their website. It will be least expensive, and you will have an entrance time, so no long line.

Do museum tour first, then exit the Sisteen (sp?) Chapel through the door that takes you to St Peter's without going outside to stand in line again. You can ask which door. I think it is on the left. Rick Steve's book mentions it, too.

Hi Darlene, you certainly have done your homework and are getting excellent advice above. I would suggest that you check out Shakespeare & Co when you “do” Notre Dame – it’s right across the street. Although I did not buy anything there, a poster mentioned that she bought Hemingway’s MOVEABLE FEAST with the Shakespeare & Co stamp – that would be a great souvenir.

Like you I planned my five day visit to Paris carefully but could not do everything – especially missed not getting to the Opera Garnier. But that is only another reason to return, n’est ce pas?

I did combine the Orsay with the Orangerie because the latter is a doable walk across the bridge – don’t miss the great collection on the lower level.

Enjoy Paris…

Looking at booking tours for the Vatican and Colosseum since they are so massive. Good idea? I've looked at Context and while highly rated, seems like more information than we need. Any opinions on Walks in Italy versus Through Eternity? I've got it narrowed down to these two, but nothing is cast in stone yet. >>

Darlene, I've not done any guided tours in Rome [or anywhere else] but so far as the Forum is concerned, I wish that I had. I've had a number of kind people here try to help me make it seem more than just a pile of stones, but so far, no luck. if you're going to spend money on a tour, this is the one I'd splash out on.

as for the Vatican museums, the problem is that they are so vast, it's difficult to know what to miss out. In fact, all we did was follow the signs to the Sistine Chapel, and about 5 hours later, and two circuits of the Egyptian exhibit later [don't ask] we found it, by which time, I found it difficult to raise the requisite enthusiasm.

as we are going to be with a tour group from our college, our guided tours are not going to be the sort of thing that you can book. [I think] but I'll happily report back on what I discover, and my thoughts about tours in general.

Annhig - I agree with everything you've said - I'm certain it would look like rocks, and the Vatican is just overwhelmng. I've decided to go with Walks In Italy - they offer several tours that appeal to me. I contacted them and will receive a small discount for booking 3 tours. We are doing the Colossuem, Vatican, and an "overview of the city" type tour called the Twilight Tour, which looks like it will be a great orientation to the city.

http://www.walksofitaly.com/tour_bookings/tour_all_listing/1/85

http://www.walksofitaly.com/tour_bookings/tour_all_listing/1/40

http://www.walksofitaly.com/tour_bookings/tour_all_listing/6/43

I've also sent a request to the Vatican for the Scavi Tour. I should hear back from them within 48 hours. Waiting to book the other tours until I have a time (or don't) for the Scavi, so we can do all the Vatican stuff on one day.

I'll be sure to report back, and I look forward to the information you bring back from your trip!

Darlene - that looks like a good plan.

on your "Vatican" day be prepared for a long and possibly tiring day - seeing the Scavi, the museums, and St. Peter's all in one day is quite a lot to do and to take in. however a guide should help to make sense of it.

> was wondering how I would decipher an all-French menu

Here's a source that I found invaluable:

http://www.patriciawells.com/glossary/french_english_food_glossary.pdf

<< but was wondering how I would decipher an all-French menu >>

In Paris it would be difficult to find a menu that is not in English. Sometimes restaurants use the British English translations but I find that's only confusing when ordering vegetables - courgette (zucchini), aubergine (eggplant). The latter is easy since it's also a color and there aren't many vegetables that are that color purple.

I can only remember one central Paris restaurant where the menu was written only in Italian and French.

I still remember the poster who decided that she would not patronize restaurants where the menu was written in English and wondered how many hours each day it would take her to find a restaurant and if she would starve.

Keep in mind that English is the common language for tourists in Europe.

The Patricia Wells guide is good, and can be printed--or probably downloaded to a phone these days. There is also the Marling Menu Master.
One thing that will NOT work is just a French English dictionary--food terms are different. But I agree that many menus are in English.
I ordered liver in a restaurant in Avignon which did not have an English menu. the server was very concerned that I be sure I knew what I was ordering--in our halting French and english. He was very cute and nice.

darlene--here's the website I used to book Le Reminet for dinner.
http://www.thefork.com/2_restaurant/Paris_restaurant/Le_Reminet_restaurant/17504/

When I booked it, it was for a Sat. night which didn't show a discount. So when were given a 40% discount anyway we were happily surprised.

Once again, THANK YOU ALL for the wonderful suggestions and kind responses! I'm feeling a whole lot better about dining now.

TPAYT - What an AMAZING website with the potential to save a significant amount on dining. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

One more question has come to mind:

There are more things to climb/ride to the top of in Paris than I'm willing to spend time on. So, if you were to chose only one or two from this list, which do you recommend?

Eiffel Tower
Arc de Triomphe
Notre Dame
Sacre Coeur - I've read that Montmartre itself provides a great view, so skip the climb . . .??
Montparnasse Tower

I have heard that Arc de Triomphe is wonderful for night views.

Just an FYI on the Arch of Triumph - do not attempt to cross the street to get to it. There's an underground passageway. You buy your ticket just underneath the Arch.

Yes - you can get good views from just in front of Sacre Coeur.

I would do the ET at night. I've only done the AdT in the daytime but I would think the views at night would be good.

The close-ups of the Notre Dame's gargoyles from its tower are IMHO stunning.

Recently someone posted some outstanding photos from the Montparnasse Tower. After all of our adventures in Paris, including staying right down the street from MT, we have never done this. The photos were so stunning that this will defitiely go on our "next" list.

We enjoyed the Eiffel Tower at night but remember if you're on the Eiffel Tower you can't see it glowing in the distance. For us it would depend on the lines.

You mentioned earlier that your apartment is a couple of blocks from the Saint-Michel Metro stop, off rue Saint-Andre-des-Arts. We have stayed in an apartment there multiple times in the last six years. You will be coming in on the RER from CDG and you will get off the train at the RER Saint-Michel Notre-Dame stop; however, the exit from the tunnels that is closest to your apartment will be the Metro exit, pl. St-Andre-des-Arts (#4, according to the RATP map). This will bring you up to street level between a souvenir shop (to your right) and the outdoor seating area of a restaurant; go to your left around the restaurant and you will be on rue Saint-Andre-des-Arts. There are indeed many eating establishments along that street; we have eaten in quite a few of them, all pleasant. My favorite ice cream place in Paris is on the right side of the street, Deliziefollie -- yes, even better in my opinion than Berthillon and Amorino -- and my favorite creperie and boulangerie is a few doors farther. Have a great trip.

Mrs, ImaginaryJazz

Mrs. IJazz - THANKS SO MUCH FOR the metro tip! One of the worst things about a new city where you are using public transportation is figuring out all of the "little" things that make life more convenient. What a great tip. After a trans-At. flight, the shortest route to the apt. the better, especially with luggage!

I do appreciate the ice cream and restaurant tips too. It does seem we are well-located. =) Since you have stayed in that area, could you please tell me where the closest supermarket is? Thank you!

TPAYT: We were leaning toward skipping the ET for that reason.

ND is definitely calling me - just trying to decide now between AdT and Montparnasse for #2.

The closest Monoprix is 24 Bd Saint-Michel, at the corner just past Bd Saint-Germain, easy walking distance unless you purchase too much stuff, then getting back is difficult -- a rolling shopping bag is really handy, but at least a tote bag is useful. There is also one we have used at the Reaumur-Sebastopol Metro exit and one on rue Saint-Antoine between the Saint-Paul and Bastille Metro stops on line 1. Even though a visit really requires using the Metro, we usually hit the one on Saint-Antoine once or twice because that is the location most likely to have in stock Nature des Pommes varietal apple juices; their Granny Smith is wonderful and is my favorite juice and I do not otherwise like apple juice. There is also a Franprix just off the Saint-Paul stop which has a store brand, Leader Price, Muesli Croustillant aux 3 Chocolats that I like a lot. My husband always rolls his eyes as he says it seems really crazy that we come all the way to Paris and the first thing we do is go to the grocery stores!

I didn't find the Pantheon in Paris very interesting, especially for such a short visit. It's a cold mausoleum. I wonder if many people confuse it with the Rome Pantheon which is incredible. I'd skip it. You don't mention Napoleon's Tomb at Invalides which I found fascinating. It is close to Rue Cler and Rodin Museum, plus the walk back to the right bank across the Pont Alexandre III and between the Grand Palais and the Petit Palais is so picturesque!. I also like the Madeleine area and Blvd. des Capuccines.

Too bad you can't visit the Marais on a Sunday with lots of people watching. The Falafel is great!

I think a visti to Versailles will be a refreshing change from the city so I hope you do it!

Bon Vacance!

MrsIJazz: This is extremely helpful. While I love getting info. on the sites, convenient grocery shopping (since we'll be in an apt.) is essential information! Thank you!

Leslie: Thanks for that idea. I agree, I wish we were in Paris on a Sunday also, but it just didn't work out that way. Florence is going to be a real challenge on Sunday and Monday with all of the closures.

Bookmarking for my May 2013 trip

Have seen the view from Sacre Coeur and the Montparnesse Tower. Both are great, though the view from atop the MT is 360 degrees and, I think, more breathtaking (absent cloud cover). The MT certainly was less crowded, which is a plus for me. Mais, because Montmartre is so much more than Sacre Coeur, I would prioritize it higher than MT. Oh, I think there is also a view atop the arch in La Defense, also reachable by metro.

360 degree view would be lovely, and I think we'll have time to do that on one of our days; I too, have read that the lines are almost nonexistent. Thanks for sharing!