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Anniversary trip in Europe, September 2014

Anniversary trip in Europe, September 2014

Old Oct 6th, 2013, 11:35 PM
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Anniversary trip in Europe, September 2014

I am planning a special trip next year (September), for our 25th wedding anniversary. I am researching like crazy but starting to narrow in on a European trip (we live in Seattle). I want it to be something very memorable and, for as long as I can hold out, I want it to be a complete surprise to my wife. She thinks we are going to Las Vegas for a couple of days!

Browsing these forums, I know it's pretty difficult to describe one's preferences. One mans "luxury" is another mans "average" and vice versa, But I will have a go at describing some of the characteristic I have in mind and see where the thread leads.

I have a rough budget of around $10,000, all in (including flights). I'm thinking flights (we are fine with economy) will be around $3,000 for two of us, return. So, let's say around $7,000 for the rest.

Here's what I want:

. Around 14 days or so.

. Stunning and memorable venues/locations, visually (example: Lake Como is somewhere my wife has always wanted to visit).

. Romantic locations. It's our 25th and we want to have a really memorable trip.

. Preferably good weather. Not completely essential (hey, we live in Seattle and I'm English!) but would prefer locations that have a good chance of sunshine and warm evenings in September.

. A little variety. We are not "sit on a beach for two weeks" people. That would bore the whatsit out of us. I don't mind being at a seaside resort - at least for some of the trip - but also like to have things to do and see nearby.

. A few places. I don't want to spend the whole trip in one location and, if it's through beautiful regions, have no problem integrating a driving day (a beautiful train trip is also fine). Given our timeframe (two weeks), I'm thinking maybe 3-4 days in one place, a day to relocate, 5-6 on another place, assuming there are day trips nearby. That would leave time for the flights.

. "Very good" hotels - places that leave us feeling very well treated and are well maintained, great service, etc. As a general rule, I'd say 4 star and above. But I want at least some of the trip to be really, really special in terms of the hotel. Price wise (no, I haven't done the math yet!), I'm thinking the majority of our trip might be in places that cost maybe $250-$300 per night, but could justify, say, $800 or so for a few nights if the experience we absolutely amazing.

. Awesome food. We are not "foodies" per se. I can't stand that term - seems pretty pretentious to me ("hey, I have a higher bar for good food than others 'cause I'm special . But we both enjoy really good cuisine. To be a bit more tangible, I'd happily pay $100 most nights for a meal for the both of us most nights (we don't drink much, by the way, so wine, etc wouldn't be too much of a factor) and would pay up to, say, $300 for a really memorable meal.

. Not too formal. I was actually looking at one of the Cunard cruises but the regular formal nights are a bit of a turn off. I don't MIND that per se, but it's not really us. I don't mind a reasonable dress code at a special hotel but not to the tie and jacket level.

Some places that seem very attractive include:

. Lake Como (see above)
, Italy
. Paris
. Venice

Anyway, that's the first thoughts I have. Would appreciate some initial thoughts. I am pretty sure I will need to clarify a few things

Mark
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Old Oct 6th, 2013, 11:47 PM
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To clarify the Italy reference, Tuscany sounds particularly good and Rome of course.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 12:38 AM
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My first thought is what's going to happen to the romantic trip when your wife packs for Vegas (hot) and winds up in Lake Como (cool) with the wrong clothes. You've mentioned a few nights in an upscale hotel and some nice dinners. Again, your wife will have Vegas clothes with her. Will she feel out of place? Plus she'll only have enough clothes for 2 days, not 2 weeks. I would not want to be surprised with a trip like this. I would want the anticipation of the trip.

Lake Como is very beautiful, particularly the mid lake area. There's not a lot of sightseeing but it's relaxing and enjoyable to take the ferries from town to town and walk around. 2 full days here would be enough.

The idea of Venice (3 days), Lake Como (2-3 days), and Paris (remainder of the trip) would be blissful for me as romantic destinations.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 01:50 AM
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You need to realize that you "can" get rained out in September. I was just in Italy and the locals said it does rain in September, but not like this year where the roads were washed out, and we had to make several time consuming detours in Tuscany. And unlike the drizzly rain you get in Seattle, it pours when it rains Europe. I have also had to deal with floods in Southern France in September.

Beware of the hotel rating. It is a "facilities" rating and not an "experience" rating. Some of my most memorable places in Italy I have stayed were small family owned two star hotels where the hotel took time to take care of me. I have also been treated with indifference at four star hotels perhaps I was not a high roller and did not valet parked a luxury car? I think one of a preconceived notion coming from the US is to use the price as a proxy of "quality." While there is a correlation, it is still not a proxy. Do cross check reviews using several different sites.

Both France and Italy offer excellent food, but different kind. For an haute cuisine, I would go to France. However, if you choose a Michelin star rated restaurant France, it would be difficult to come under $100 per person even for a fixed meal at lunch. It is easier to stay within a budget for a dinner in Italy even at a Michelin starred restaurant. However, there are no shortage of non starred restaurant offering amazing experiences.

Also beware that not drinking wine does not necessary translate to controlling the cost. While a vintage wines in a bottle can cost a fortune, most restaurants in France and Italy, away from the tourist tracts, offer excellent house wines by glasses or pitcher at a cost LESS than soft drinks. Many times I see the waiters pouring my "house " wines from a DOCG bottle from the region. And if I am in Montalcino, that can be a Brunello. My impression is that in the US, wine is a profit center and treated as such: high prices for diners and low cost basis for the establishment. In Europe, away from the tourist trap areas, the restaurant seem to treat wine at equal footing with other meal items.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 02:07 AM
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I think that Mark plans on telling his wife at some point, based on his "as long as I can hold out" comment when he was talking about it being a surprise. So that should address the packing aspect of all this, since yeah it would be a completely different suitcase.

I am partial to Italy... you could stat in Rome, then move on to the Tuscany region (maybe rent a villa for a few days outside of Florence and do day trips from there) and move on to Venice. Or trek up to Lake Como from Florence and then head east to Venice.

My second choice would be starting in Paris, going north towards Normandy and then heading east towards Belgium. There you can spend a couple of days at the "venice of the north" -- Brugges, and then fly home from Brussels.

I have to agree with Greg on the hotel selection process... I steer away from big establishments and have always enjoying getting to know the locals and learning about the places I am visiting. One of my favorite hotels is a small place in Koblenz, Germany where we would exchange stories with other travelers after our daily adventures.

For two weeks, $7,000 may do the trick so long as the dollar doesn't continue to dip. I am heading out to Provence in two weeks and dreading the downward trend on the dollar to euro valuation that is going on right now.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 04:49 AM
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I think this is a lovely idea and I'm sure your wife will be blown away by this trip, no matter what you choose. Since you are hoping to visit more than one city, you will probably want to fly into one city and out of another. To do this, hit the "multi-city" button (rather than the round trip) when you book your flights.
Typically there is very little cost difference from round trip, and the time and money you save from backtracking is incalculable. And September should be a lovely time to visit. Generally good weather, and fewer crowds than summer.

Since it sounds like Lake Como is a "must see" (and it really is fabulous!) I think Italy is calling you. I would suggest flying into Rome and spending 5 nights. Then take the train to Venice and spend three or 4 nights, and then finally up to Lake Como for the last 3 or 4 nights. Then fly home from Milan. If you can get a flight that leaves later in the day from Milan, you can get to the airport from Lake Como that same morning. But if you have a morning flight, you should spend that last night in Milan.

Of course, now that I think about it, you might prefer to do this entire trip in reverse, getting you to Lake Como earlier in Sept, giving you even better odds for great weather. Feel free to come back with more questions and happy planning!
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 05:10 AM
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I commend you on the idea of a great trip. But your budget will not allow for "very good" hotels and "awesome" food for 2 people for 14 days.

Very good hotels in europe tend to be $300 to $400 per night (top hotels will be $800 plus) and while there is a lot of god inexepnsive food in some places if you want "awesome" as in upscale - I would assume you need to spend at least $200 for a dinner approaching awesome. We usually do one special dinner in each city we visit and allow about $300 for it - including a nice but not extravagant wine. If you are careful you can have a nice sit down dinner (but not "awesome") for $100 to $125 per couple. A basic lunch is about $20/$25 per person and up unless you want to eat sandwiches on a bench or a sice of pizza.

Assume prices in europe are abuot 1.3 more than in the US _ except for Switz and Scand - which are MUCH more expensive.

I would start looking at hotels now - since this will be your biggest expense to get an idea of what you will get at each price range. There are a lot of modest places which will be clean and have private baths and elevators, and may be quaint. But it sounds like you are looking for more than that.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 06:28 AM
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I think Italy would be a wonderful romantic trip. And Lake Como is amazingly beautiful. You could plan a great trip into Milan or Venice and out of Rome and do Lake Como, Venice, Rome.

If you are looking for lovely but not break the bank hotels in Europe I like the hotel websites of www.tablethotels.com, www.i-escape.com and www.slh.com.

Or if you would like a specific suggestion for Rome we are staying next spring at Hotel San Francesco there. Don't know if I found in on one of the above websites. Think it came from another Fodorite here. It is about US$225 per night.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 10:12 AM
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My only experience with Lake Como was a wonderful stay at the Hotel Florence in Bellagio. We were there towards the end of September which was also the end of the season so keep that in mind. There are two rooms that share a huge terrace overlooking the lake. We were there with another couple so we had the terrace to ourselves. I hope we have a chance for a return.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 01:35 PM
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Wow - fantastic responses! Thanks everyone. So, where to start?

First, to put some minds at rest, even I (who LOVES setting up surprises) wouldn't be so bold as to have my wife hop on a plane for a two week vacation, thinking she will be gone for two days in Las Vegas She will have plenty of opportunity to plan - at least a week (yes, I'm kidding). I actually do have a logistical issue since I need to make sure she has the time off work so I will be contacting her work to give them a heads up. But that's all part of my cunning plan - she will have a great surprise but also enough time to get ready. A fine balance.

Given all the responses and some of my own thinking, I think I am honing in on three locations - Rome, Tuscany and Lake Como. I haven't yet figured out which way but I think I could nail it with the romantic and beautiful locations places. Missing Paris would be a shame but we have been there a couple of times (including last year). I just think I need to balance this a little. I am thinking maybe 5 days in the Rome area, 3 in Tuscany and 3 in Lake Como. That's 11 days and with flights/travel included we are close to the 14 days.

By the way, a small part of this is that I am assuming there's a better chance of good weather in mid-late September than there is in Paris. Accurate (I am aware that there's always the chance of bad weather in either - just playing the odds here, plus the fact that neither of us have been to Rome).

I agree with the comments about hotel ratings. I chose that for no other reason than I don't know of any other way to express the sort of thing we like. On this particular trip, I am very sensitive to major disappointments and, while I love the idea of the small, rustic location, the risk is also a little higher. But in the best case scenario we'd mix the high end, luxury hotel with a special and delightful small hotel in the countryside. Maybe the former is Rome and the latter is Tuscany.

In terms of food costs, the comments make sense. I'm not overly concerned about that because we can make it up as we go - if we find we're spending more than we want to, we can always "go cheap" for a few days (relatively). That contrasts with the cost of the hotel, flight, etc which are locked in when we book.

Here are a couple of places that look good to me for Rome, Tuscany and Lake Como, respectively.

http://www.lapostavecchia.com/en/

http://www.castellodicasole.com/

http://www.villaserbelloni.com/Bellagio/en/

I do know I can't afford all three but at least one of those looks very attractive!

Choices, choices.

Thanks again.

Mark
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 01:49 PM
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Re the cost of hotels on Lake Como. I am assuming you are going to stay somewhere in the so-called mid-lake area (the Varenna-Menaggio-Bellagio triangle).

A LOT depends on which hotel you choose in terms of cost and they do not all cost 300 and 400 dollars a night, especially in September.

Oops, sorry, I just saw you are considering staying at the Serbelloni...FORGET what I said above and I will comment no further.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 03:13 PM
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It is possible that you seek carte blanche what these luxury hotels offer. But if you are sensitive to disappointments, it makes even more sense not to use "luxury" as a proxy. I am not sure where you have gotten an idea that small places come with higher risks. In my experience, we had more disappointments at high end luxury hotels in Italy, and most of our fond memorable romantics experiences were staying at carefully researched small family run albergos we have connected with the innkeepers.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 06:49 PM
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The hotel you listed for Rome looks stunning, but be aware that it is far outside the city. If you plan to tour the sites of the city you really want to stay in the centro storico. Somewhere in the area between Piazza Navona/ Trevi/ Campo de Fiori is ideal for walking to all the major sites. We really enjoyed Hotel Campo de Fiori. Certainly not at the luxury level of the other places you mentioned, but still very nice.
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 07:59 PM
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Thanks all. Part of the plan is I want one spectacular! Something that is, um, a bit extreme in terms of luxury and beauty A couple of the links I provided could be in that category. I am really starting to think strongly now about that being either (not both of Rome or Lake Como, with a more rustic and small place in Tuscany. In fact, now I think about it some more msteacher has a good point. I was actually aware that the Rome place to which I linked was some way from Rome itself. But Rome is also where we'd have most to see. So, that's a good point - find something a little modest closer to or in Rome. Then the rustic treasure in Tuscany (have to find that yet and then finish up with the big finish a Serbelloni. Given my wife has always wanted to visit Lake Como that seems an appropriate way to end the trip.

So, that means I am now on the hunt for something "nice but not spectacular" (maybe $300 per night) in Rome and somewhere rustic and beautiful in Tuscany (same sort of price range). I'd be getting pretty close to my budget, I think.

Rome = 5 * $300 = $1,500
Tuscany = 3 * 300 = $900
Lake Como = 3 * $1,000 = $3,000
TOTAL: $5,400
Plus $3,000 for flights and I'm around $8,500. Not much spending money (but I kind already know my budget is "soft" .

But that sounds like a great mix of places.

Always looking for suggestions

Thanks again.

Mark
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 08:53 PM
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OK, the $300 per night in Rome is rapidly seeming a bit of wishful thinking on my part. I found another thread which suggests $400 is about the going rate in the heart of Rome - and that was a 2009 thread. So, if I wanted to be in central Rome (I don't know that for sure yet) am I looking at about $450 - $500 per night? Oh!
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Old Oct 7th, 2013, 09:23 PM
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Mark, congratulations on the upcoming Anniversary!!

Take a look at Villa Poggiano and La Saracina in Southern Tuscany. These are both gorgeous: Poggiano more luxurious, La Saracina more of a country estate, but both top notch.

In Rome, we stayed at Albergo Santa Chiara twice. Not luxurious but very nice, good service, and one cannot ask for a better location. This *** property will run you $300+ in September.

So, here is my take on expensive hotels.. one has to spend enough time in the room to justify paying the price. What good is it if one is out the whole day exploring and then just using the room to crash at night? Still to well reviewed, centrally located places. Nothing is more demoralizing then returning to an ugly place at the end of the day, but do not feel compelled getting the second mortgage.

Do not skip Venice! We celebrated our 35th in December 2011 in Venice. I cannot think of a more romantic place on Earth! Returning for our 37th this December.
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Old Oct 8th, 2013, 10:56 AM
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>

Well, that's certainly not MY "going rate," nor the "going rate" for many travelers. And I generally stay at lovely little hotels in Rome, like the Modigliani. But clearly my expectations differ wildly from yours. I have absolutely no need for "spectacular" or "luxury." I get those outdoors when I'm actually visiting the place I've traveled to. You can probably find a great hotel at any price point you wish, so I'd make choices to fit your budget, not change your budget to expand the choices (unless of course money really is no object).

I agree that Venice is one of the most romantic places on earth - I wouldn't skip it.
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Old Oct 8th, 2013, 11:55 AM
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StCirq, thanks. The "Oh" comment hopefully signified that I absolutely don't want to be paying that amount of money! I was just responding to a 4 year old thread where the suggestion was made that $400 was pretty much what would be expected in central Rome, back then. Further research since then suggests that I can probably find something at the level I'd like for around $300-$350 per night - so panic over!

The Venice thing keeps coming back. I absolutely want to do Rome. And Lake Como (because my wife has always wanted to visit). And Tuscany is on both of or wish lists and is between the two. So, that little triplet made sense

But Venice... The problem I have is that I really want to relax and enjoy each destination and four locations in two weeks is starting to seem like a lot of moving around to me.

Tough call.

Mark
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Old Oct 8th, 2013, 12:38 PM
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You're absolutely right that four destinations in two weeks is really pushing it. I'll just say that, if it were me, I'd choose Venice over Rome for romance any day (and I'm quite fond of Rome).
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Old Oct 8th, 2013, 02:15 PM
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You are killing me OK, now considering Lake Como -> Venice -> Tuscany.

But letting go of Rome is difficult!

Um, maybe 20 days...

Seriously, loving the suggestions. Thank you.

Mark
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