111op

Hi, we'll take the train from Paris to Amsterdam and a day there. We arrive around 11 in the morning. The next morning, we take the train to Brussels, spend a few hours there, and then we fly to Rome.

I haven't really had time to do any research for Amsterdam and Brussels. I've been to both. They are basically new to my parents, though my mom has been to Brussels also.

I'm looking for a few restaurant recs. Also places to walk around. Given the short amount of time, I don't think that I want to drag my parents to many museums. I've been to the main ones myself anyway (and also the Anne Frank House -- in case you're wondering).

I'm thinking in Amsterdam a boat cruise can be interesting.

Though I've been to Brussels a couple of times, I don't have a guidebook and I don't intend to buy one. Thus your recs are important. We'll have lunch there -- I've been to the Museum Cafe of the Fine Arts Museum and I remember I liked it. Otherwise I don't know the city well, so it'll be good to have a few backups that are near Grand'Place.

I know where the chocolate stores are in Brussels (the important thing for me ), but if you know a really good one, do let me know of course (I've bought chocolates from Wittamer, Mary's, Pierre Marcolini).

I've an old Lonely Planet pocket guide for Amsterdam which I'll dig out. Also a StyleCity guide. But most likely some info is outdated. So please let me know anything you find noteworthy.

Thanks!

Therese

Um, why? This seems like very circuitous routing unless you've got a very specific reason for visiting these cities (and in that case it seems unlikely that you'd be looking for something to do while there).

And in case this query seems a bit snarky, I don't mean it to be, I'm just a bit confused.

111op

It wasn't meant to be snarky. I was just preempting some potential suggestions. Maybe that came out the wrong way. I certainly didn't intend that.

It is a bit of a circuitous route, but since the air tickets and train tickets are bought already (we're leaving tomorrow), this is what we'll stick to. As for why I planned things this way, it's too complicated a story to get into.

Thanks!

suec1

Yeah I'm thinking why spend the money to go to AMS for such a short time - maybe go to Brugge instead since it is closer to Brussels (and has lovely canals!) but it seems to make more sense jsut to stay in Paris. But if you do end up in AMS - the Jordaan / canal ring areas are very scenic with nice little restaurants and shops. I don't like the busy parts of AMS (Leidenspleain, Dam Square). But a canal boat crusie and then a walk on one of the main canals would be a pleasant way to spend the day.

111op

Thanks. We *will* end up in Amsterdam. The tickets are bought already, as I said. They are not refundable.

By the way, Amsterdam is 2 hours further compared to Brugge. It's not such a horrendous thing. Plus there're no train changes.

For what it's worth, I've been to Brugge as well. (Hope that doesn't sound snarky. )

Please help with Amsterdam and Brussels (rather than suggest an alternate routing -- like Antwerp -- or spending time in France -- like Loire Valley, etc.). Thanks again!

BTilke

What day of the week will you be in Brussels? I have loads of restaurant recs, but some of them aren't open at all on Sunday, and some don't do Saturday lunch (just dinner). Do you want a quick bite or a meal to linger over? How much do you want to spend? French/Belgian, seafood or Thai...

If you want a Friday afternoon spot (roughly guessing since you say you're leaving tomorrow...I am leaving tomorrow for the U.S., I shall wave to you somewhere over the Atlantic!)

Anyway, for a weekday lunch somewhere near the GP, I would pick a spot by the Sablon...it's pretty and there are plenty of choices:

My first rec would be Cap Sablon, a short walk from the GP, but away from all the touristy places. Lovely atmosphere.
http://sites.resto.com/capsablon/
menu (with prices)
http://www.resto.be/ware/cartes.jsp?...1480&lg=FR

The cafe/restaurant at Wittamer's (you can have a light lunch, enjoy one of their fabulous pastries, and grab some chocolates to go)

The restaurant inside the Flamant home design store on the Sablon. Chic. Not expensive.

Lola's on the Sablon. Also very chic. More expensive. Reservations strongly recommended.

Au Vieux St. Martin. Also popular with the chic Sablon crowd. Although, to be honest, I don't think the food's that great and it's overpriced. But it's great for drinks and people watching.

Away from the Sablon, if you're willing to take a short metro or taxi ride, then I'd suggest L'Atelier over in the EU district. Can lunch a la carte or their set lunch menu. Has a very good cold appetizer buffet and nice lunch specials (note: there's not much on the English version of its web site)
http://www.atelier-euro.be/bm_menus_balade.php

Although, of course, if you are willing to venture away from the GP for lunch (which I recommend), then my rec would be for my favorite Brussels restaurant, Le Fruit Defendu.
http://sites.resto.com/lefruitdefendu/

WillTravel

I usually don't have restaurant recommendations, but I went to a nice restaurant in the Plantage. It has a Swedish name, but offered tapas. I know this is sort of like telling a librarian that you liked a book with a green cover.

It's near the Resistance Museum and the Jewish Museum, both of which are quite interesting. The Tropenmuseum, which we visited before, is also in the Plantage and quite interesting (and less museum-y than many museums). Anyway, I like the Plantage, and I think it's under-visited.

I also visited the Bible Museum on Herengracht, but that is probably not going to be on the top of anyone's list.

BTilke

Caution: the walk from the GP to the Sablon is uphill, not horribly steep, but still...if your parents aren't up to the walk, it's a very short taxi ride (3 minutes tops) or bus ride (the 95 or 96 bus, I forget which).

Getting from the Sablon to the Midi train station is simple...catch a tram to Place Louise (you pick up the tram by the church on the Sablon, take the ones heading toward the Palais de Justice building [it has a big gold dome and the floors below in scaffolding]). Transfer to the metro at Louise, it's only 3 stops to the train station. Or catch a taxi from the taxi stand on the Sablon near Au Vieux St. Martin, shouldn't cost more than 10 euros total. Or just jump a regular train from Gare Centrale back to Midi.

WillTravel

Here's the restaurant I was thinking of:
http://www.meneernilsson.nl/

In case it's not clear, it's a pretty casual place, but I really enjoyed it.

111op

Great, thanks for your recs. I was hoping that you both would respond (I know you know Brussels well, BTilke).

We'll be in Brussels on a Wednesday. We arrive in Paris on Thursday and then go to Amsterdam the following Tuesday.

I'm not sure if we want to linger for lunch. We leave Amsterdam around 8:30, so probably it's 11 am when we arrive. Our flight to Rome is around 6 pm from BRU. I think we should probably leave around 3 pm (I'm trying to leave enough time since i'm traveling with two elderly parents -- usually I tend to rush).

So I'm thinking that we'll have time for lunch and for buying some chocolates, that's it. Maybe I'll check out the exhibition on the Royal Collection (if we have time).

By the way, WillTravel, I was looking at the Amsterdam hotel again earlier today. I managed to book Hotel Estherea for 99 euros a night for each room. It's more highly ranked than Owl hotel. The 99 euros doesn't include a 5% tax or breakfast (I think it's 25 euros pp).

So I'm thinking that without breakfast I'm saving about 20 euros over Owl, not that that's the sole consideration. It looks like Esthrea is a "better" (i.e. more stars) hotel also.

I think you mentioned the Eden to me. There're two Edens in Amsterdam -- one near Rembrandtplein (which gets better reviews in TA).

What do you think about my hotel choice? Cheap is not necessarily the determining criterion for this trip, as you know. Which one will you go for?

111op

Oops, sorry -- just minor detail -- breakfast is 15 euros pp. The saving is about 15 euros (not counting breakfast).

BTilke, probably we'll need to go from Midi to Centrale (can catch a train). You probably know this, but I'll check my train to be sure to see if it stops at Centrale (we're taking Thalys and not a regular IC, I think). But I think we can catch a train to BRU from Centrale.

Still I appreciate your tips on local transportation.

hanl

"Getting from the Sablon to the Midi train station is simple..."

You can also take the bus no. 27 which goes all the way from the Sablon to Midi station - very easy as it's direct but probably slower than taking the tram/metro.

Also wanted to mention another nice place to stop for a bite or a coffee: the restaurant at the top of the Musical Instruments museum (a short walk from the Sablon), which is housed in a lovely old Art Nouveau building that was once a department store. The museum is well worth a visit too, but if time is at a premium then you can take the lift right up to the rooftop restaurant and if the weather is fine, you can eat on the terrace. Great views of the city.

111op

I think I must be anticipating the Italy portion of the trip. I kept spelling Central as "Centrale" when what I wanted to write was "Centraal."

WillTravel

I think the Estherea has very good reviews, and I like the location a lot. The Owl, if I recall, is considered more of a budget place, and it's rather further out, which I'd not prefer for such a short stay.

I like the Eden Amsterdam, particularly for the prices I have gotten it for. Now that they are almost finished or are finished with their renovations, it's quite likely the prices aren't competitive. I know it's also possible to get a poky, renovated room (we were shown one in 2007, but I went back to the desk to ask for a twin room, even if it was unrenovated). This poky room overlooked an airshaft and had a smallish double bed. The decor was quite nice, though, and you generally aren't going to get spacious rooms in Amsterdam. And, of course, my main concern then was having twin beds, rather than the window.

As you may remember, on our last trip, we stayed at the Armada Hotel, which has a great location and we had a great price, but I do sort of regret not staying at the Eden because it is a nicer hotel.

BTilke

Centrale is fine for Brussels.

Hanl, thanks for the reminder about the 27 bus. It runs about every 20 minutes (maybe 15) and can be caught right on the Sablon (if you are at the top, facing down, it's on the right hand side near a fancy antiques store). The signpost for the bus stop also lists the schedule, but give the posted times a few minutes leeway either way...they can be early or late.

111op, I think Cap Sablon might fit your needs best. The service is quick (not fast food quick, but efficient), so it's up to you how long you spend there...lots of people working in the area have lunch there. And it's just a few steps from the 27 bus stop.

After Cap Sablon, I'd pick Flamant's store restaurant or Wittamer's cafe (make sure you have dessert! but their coffee isn't that great, alas). Lola might take too long.

P.S. Flamant has gorgeous displays, but don't even think of taking any photos. The staff will have conniptions. Whenever I'm in a "poke the bear" mood, I snap a photo there, just to watch the store's queen bees buzz in annoyance. (pardon the mixed metaphor)

BTilke

Or Hanl's suggestion of the cafe at the music museum. Great views, very nice setting. Last time we were at the cafe, Princess Mathilde was there.

111op

Thanks again, BTilke. Yes, you're right that Centrale is ok (and now that I'm reading your suggestions more carefully, I've noticed that's the spelling you used also).

hanl, thanks for reminding me about the Musical Instruments Museum. I've been there and recommended it to others, but on this trip this would have escaped me. That's why it's good to ask the forum!

WillTravel I've only checked booking.com and Eden Amsterdam is not especially competitive right now on that website. It looks like the rack rate for Estherea is generally pricier. I went back to TA and read the reviews more carefully and one complained about getting a bad room with the normal rate. I'm thinking that I'll take my chances with Estherea, but I'll look up a map to see where it is exactly. Of course I'm a little concerned that 99 euros means that they will give me something nasty, but like you I've gotten bargains (but just once in a while). For one night it can't be too bad.

WillTravel

I have only found good prices with Eden Amsterdam when booking months in advance, so I am not surprised.

I think the Hotel Estherea location is very convenient, but I should qualify my praise above, because I don't have a precise memory of what that part of the Singel looks like. On our trips, we were close to Singel, but further east.

111op

We ended up having lunch at La Clef des Champs (r. de Rollebeck 23). One main alone was 12.50 euros for lunch.

I noticed it while we were on our way to the Sablons. There was a sign that the restaurant won a Bib Gorumand, so I figured -- why not? I guess it was ok. My father had the skate fish, and he thought that this was supposed to be a very cheap fish (it occurred to me that cheap skate may have something to do with -- but a web search says no). Fortunately the fish didn't stink like ammonia.

I was told that we couldn't use my Thalys ticket to go to Brussels airport. So we bought new tickets for that part (I think it was 3.80 euros?).

Estherea in Amsterdam was a bargain at 99 euros a night (actually it was a little over 100 euros with taxes added.

Travelnut

The Thalys from Paris to Amsterdam departs Gare du Nord and arrives AMS Centraal.

The train from Amsterdam to Brussels departs Centraal and arrives Brussels Midi(Zuid). I suppose there are other trains that you could take from AMS to reach Brussels, and arrive at Brussels Centrale but I've never done that. Or perhaps the first train that goes to Midi will continue on to Centrale, if it isn't on the Thalys line.

If you're taking the train from Brussels to the airport, I thought it left from Midi also.

Perhaps I should just be quiet now.