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Americans moving to Europe - Suggestions?

Americans moving to Europe - Suggestions?

Old Feb 21st, 2017, 05:45 AM
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Americans moving to Europe - Suggestions?

I realize this is a very broad question so just hoping for some suggestions based on your experiences.

My husband works for a large corporation with jobs around the world and his boss said that if we pick a place abroad he will line up the opportunities (it would be just a 2 year stint). They will line up a living situation for us and everything. We are interested in traveling quite a bit these next few years before we decide to have kids so moving to Europe where we can take long weekends here and there to visit various places would be wonderful.

My husband speaks a little French so he's interested in immersing himself in a major city in France to add on to his resume as he becomes bilingual. I speak zero French and certainly will take classes and do my best if we end up in Paris or another city but I am nervous about feeling isolated with not being able to speak the language. I've been making an argument that we should stick to somewhere in the UK so at least I can avoid a language barrier that would isolate me. My boss will let me keep my job so I can work from wherever we are but I wouldn't be interacting and meeting coworkers abroad. Are there places in France though that would be recommended still for Americans so husband can still work on his French and I can ease my way into the culture shock of living abroad?

I've done research on best places for American expats and it doesn't look like the UK or France are at the top of those lists anyway. Here's my list of wants for a place to live:

-Decent weather - I hate cold weather but live in Maryland so I'm used to seasons
-Place where other Americans are known for living and/or there is a good English speaking base
-Near or in a major city (husband's job will demand that)
-I'm outdoorsy and very active (hiking, playing soccer, running, sailing, fishing etc.) so somewhere good for active lifestyles would be ideal. I played soccer in college and still do so I'd definitely try to find a team wherever we go and make friends that way.

Looking at all of Europe is too broad for me to expect a concise list coming from this but would love to hear from people who moved and had a great experience in a specific city.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:12 AM
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Well I think you are not using this opportunity well by aiming to hang out just with mostly americans.. but not surprised.. sigh.

First off.. most large cities in Europe have good sized expat communities so there will be English speakers everywhere you go.. and I think Paris is not exception to that anyways.

If going for more moderate weather, then obviously south rather than north.. ie , southern Spain, Italy, or southern France.

Since you want to travel, look for places near hub airports.. Nice wouldn't be a bad idea, moderate weather in winter ( its not beachy, but not likely to snow) sea keeps heat at bay in summer, and the aiport and trains will get you anywhere you want to go.

If you really find English to be a priority then Amsterdams a good bet,, most people speak English there , and of course you are in easy area to travel to many other cities easily and quickly . Its damp in winter but oh well.

UK,, well at this point I would say no, first off, you don't actually speak English and you speak American.. sorry, bad joke lol.. no. but really its about all the change right now, will they be on the GBP or euro? All travel will take getting off the island.. so not quite as spontenous.
London however is a fun and exciting city.. lots to do .. but its not a cheap city , for same amount of money you can live better elsewhere..

I love London and Paris.. but Id probably choose southern france myself.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:19 AM
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We speak lot of English in Italy! We have many tourists in the cities, so if you can only point at things if you don't know the name but want to buy it, that's ok. People will be nice to you! We don't laugh at your Italian if you don't laugh at our English.

We have the nicest weather and the best food and the best soccer. (But you must to learn the right word for soccer. It is football. If you move to Italy it is calcio.) Since you are married you don't care we have the best looking people, but they are still nice to look at, and we have the best clothes. And coffee.

There a lots of Americans or UK people living in Milano, Roma (it has an American institute), Florence (it is Firenze to us), and also I think Bologna. There are American military forces in Italy. Near Venice and Napoli. It is never hard if you live in a city in Italy to go to the countryside for the afternoon or to the sea for the weekend. You take a train or rent a car.

If you choose Milano, every weekend you go to valle d'Aosta in Italy to be outdoors and speak French. They speak French there. It is Italy but they speak French. Or you take the Thello train and go to the Riviera in France. If all the big cities of Italy there is an airport with a cheap ticket to Paris. All the places in Italy are a nice place to live except (ok, I better not tell you where I don't like).
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:25 AM
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The Netherlands has a lot of US companies, not all based in Amsterdam, many are in smaller towns and cities.
Yes it is cold and damp in winter, but then again so is most of Europe, including parts of Spain and Italy.
With the UK leaving the EU travel to EU countries could get more complicated, and it's expensive to get off that island.
I understand you feeling worried about being lonely, I moved to the Netherlands because of my husband. Wherever you go you will have to make an effort, and try to learn something of the language just so you can join in, and to enjoy local activities.
One thing to consider might be whether foreign TV programmes are dubbed or subtitled. You can learn a lot from subtitles.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:40 AM
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I agree with justineparis: IMO the last thing you want to do is hang out with a bunch of English-speaking expats. Just jump in. I live in France, in the Dordogne, and I can't tell you how many English-speaking expats I know who have been "easing their way" into the culture here for, oh, 15 or 20 years, and who still can't deal with a French plumber, or the cashier at the supermarket, or the butcher. An expat group can be good for social life, but it can also just become the mother of all crutches.

Sticking to the UK is fine, a wonderful place to live, but it really isn't much of a stretch (and linguistic stretches are really GOOD for you!), and as noted not as easy for traveling around Europe - you do have to get over the Channel. Plus it's more expensive to live there than in France.

The weather in all parts of the south of France is generally temperate, and there is a wealth of opportunities to get involved in sports and outdoor activities.

I would look at Toulouse (one of my favorite cities in France) and Montpellier and Bordeaux and Nice. I could name lots more, but it would depend on where your husband's business has jobs.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:44 AM
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Well if living costs are no barrier, what about Geneva? Yes, it snows, but you can be on the Cote d'Azur pretty quickly, and while French is the local language you won't find a more polyglot place when it comes to culture-mixing. Needless to say there are lots of outdoor options.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:48 AM
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i would definitely look at somewhere in the EU which will make travel a lot easier and though you mention France, somewhere more central like Germany might be better; also lots of germans speak english, and the early stages of learning German are very easy. I think you would find lots of ex pats in most large German cities.

As for throwing yourself into [french] life, I can see the benefits of doing so if you were intending to be there for life, but if it's only for 2 years, that seems to me to be a rather different proposition. IMO, especially if your husband is going to be at work during the day, you might want to look at places with a reasonable number of english speakers, or you might be in for a miserable time.

[St C - I think that you and I have to accept that not everyone is a language nerd like us!]
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:49 AM
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<Well I think you are not using this opportunity well by aiming to hang out just with mostly americans.. but not surprised.. sigh. >

This is a really unfair comment! hetismij2 is right, loneliness is a very real concern. I lived in Europe briefly, in a country whose language I studied while there but never spoke well, and it was lonely. My SO had a job to go to, and I volunteered (among Americans) and had one native friend who lived an hour or so away, but day-to-day, I did feel isolated. Not having kids didn't help!

I agree that major European cities will all have an American community of one kind or another, and these can at least give you a place to start building a social life. And if you end up in France, start studying French now, and make plans to continue studying once you get there.

I also agree that the UK, while decidedly foreign to an American, would be easier to deal with. But there are other practicalities to think of there with regard to Brexit.

Living abroad is a great opportunity, and two years will fly by.

Have you considered Ireland?
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:53 AM
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< also lots of germans speak english>

This is, IME, sort of misleading. Lots of Germans speak *some* English, but few speak well enough to have a meaningful conversation. Again, IME, this is true pretty much everywhere in Europe with the exception of Amsterdam. And the UK and Ireland, of course!

<As for throwing yourself into [french] life, I can see the benefits of doing so if you were intending to be there for life, but if it's only for 2 years, that seems to me to be a rather different proposition.>
I couldn't agree more.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 06:59 AM
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Yes, you are all right about I should be more open about living somewhere that I can jump in and immerse myself in a new language. I'm just scared about being lonely and homesick since my husband will be traveling a lot for his job so I'll be on my own quite a bit. I'm an outgoing social person so making friends will be very important to me - and of course that's easier if we speak that same language. I do think some of the best experiences that can come out of life are ones that you were scared to try and went for it anyway - so maybe I need to get out of my comfort zone and listen to you fine people! My husband certainly agrees with those comments and he is looking forward to an opportunity to be "forced" to learn another language.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm going to start looking into each of these places a little more.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 07:15 AM
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It's 2017 fer Pete's sake. Find a Starbucks or a pub or a cafe that you like and become a regular. In no time you'll have a group you can hang out with. They teach you street French/Dutch/German/Glaswegian (by far the hardest) and you teach them how to eat a piece of pizza in Brooklyn.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 07:16 AM
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I don't know why you are "scared". To live in a different country, even if you don't speak the language of that country, is not frightening. If you speak English, there are lots of people who speak English. When I go to Austria, I speak English because I don't speak German, except for words (point at this, point at that, say Bitte Bitte Bitte Danke Danke Danke. But if I speak English, it's better. Sometimes Germans speak Italian to me.)

People are very nice and they will help you. If your husband wants to speak a different language, Italian is nice. The best language to learn is Spanish. So many people speak Spanish. So maybe you would like to go to Spain. They are very nice people and there are lots of people from the UK there. The weather is nicer than Holland. If you go to Madrid or Barcelona the people are very cosmopolitan and they speak many languages. If you live in Barcelona it is very easy to go to France. The Catalan language is like the French language too. You could learn to speak 3 languages.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 07:31 AM
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Maybe scared isn't the right word - just concerned. Great to hear though that I shouldn't be!
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 07:33 AM
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Learning Spanish would be so useful, I completely agree!

Europeans are used to being surrounded by several languages, most of which they don't speak, so their inhibitions get worn down, if they even develop in the first place. We Americans are geographically isolated, so the idea of living as Europeans do can be intimidating.

I am not telling the OP not to go for it and step out of her comfort zone; I'm trying to be realistic about the possibility of loneliness and isolation, especially since her husband will not only have a job to go to but will be traveling as well. There is a range of approaches and attitudes in this thread, which I think is great!
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 07:38 AM
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If the company is set up to easily facilitate this there are likely other families where you husband works that you can become friends with. I transferred to London with a big 4 accounting firm in 2007 and hung out wuth all the other expats until they left after their 2 year contracts. We have stayed and love it.

London is a travel hub and we travel over 6 weeks a year to Europe with no problem at all. Culturally the UK is very different (different celebrities, accents, children's programmes, tv, etc) but we found it fairly easy to acclimatise. Brexit may mean I need to use my Canadian passport or use the longer queue when using my UK passport, but I highly doubt the EU are going to hinder tourism between the UK and the EU.

I think being in a city where the language is foreign and you don't already speak it would present a lot of barriers. Especially if you are already nervous about being lonely. I lived in Quebec and went to school in French but felt much lonelier and homesick during that year than I ever have in the UK. It was very difficult to meet friends in another language. Maybe it was my youth, but I would really consider the UK if you are worried.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 07:39 AM
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I understand why she is scared, she's afraid of being lonely and having difficulties. Some people are scared to even travel for a week or two, let alone move somewhere that is a totally different culture and language they don't understand. At last there are no kids involved which would involve a lot more issues and problems (schools, etc).

And she didn't say she only wants to hang out with Americans forever, just wants a buffer. Funny how some of my German friends in the US also hang out with a few other German friends at times, there is nothing weird or unusual about this at all. People like being with others who have some similar cultural viewpoints for fun and comfort sometimes, that's all.

Claiming someone who is American doesn't speak English is rubbish and ridiculous.

But I would agree that you need to decide where the best opportunities are and lifestyle you want. Your husbands wants to use this to improve his French. There are tons of English speaking expats in France, unfortunately the British are buying up France and Spain, I have no idea where they all get so much money or how they are doing it. But I know there are lots of them in southern France, and in Paris. Plenty of Americans in Paris, also, they even have a club and church. I know there is a big technology hub near Nice, and some international schools, so suspect that would be a good place, also, but you'd have to check out more. I think you should go there if your husband wants to, just going to the UK for the language would be missing one of the reasons he supposedly wants to do this for his career. It will be fine if you have some adventure and independence. Plenty of outdoorsy things to do, also.

I"d look into Nice or maybe Bordeaux or Toulouse, although the type of job and company is a mystery. Those are just the biggest cities in southern France, I believe, plus Marseille.

I just don't see the point of going to Spain over France when he has a reason to want to go to France.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 08:16 AM
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The weather in much of Spain is very hot in the summer. Everyone has related to your weather question as just avoiding deep cold, but also consider the heat.

Amsterdam is a nice city, but it seems always cold and damp to me - and I live in Seattle!

It's been many years since my first visit to Spain, and I was shocked at how few people spoke any English. It may be different now, but on that trip, my Spanish was so rudimentary, I got by via speaking French! I had traveled all over Asia and to many places in Europe, but Spain was the most difficult as an English speaker.

As your husband wants to improve his French, I'd encourage you to choose a place in France. Get some guidebooks from your library and choose a city. I have to say, if it were me (and I know it isn't), I'd choose Paris, no question!
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 08:21 AM
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NewBe it wasn't me who said that! Blame justine not me!
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 08:25 AM
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I know all about loneliness as I said in my post upthread. I moved abroad for my husband too. Had to learn a new language, and fast as I had three children picking it up at record speed. I resent you accusing me.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 08:33 AM
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I didn't accuse you! I quoted justine and said her comment was, IMO, unfair, and then immediately said I agreed with you regarding loneliness--so I see the context may have been confusing, and I apologize for that. I hope this clears it up!

I was lonely when we moved to Europe for exactly the same reasons--knew no one, didn't speak the language, SO had a job to go to. I studied the language, we traveled, I made a couple of friends, had a small American community, but it was still hard. I'm very self-sufficient but I need society, and I found some, but we weren't there long enough for it ever to feel like home.
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