Hard hats on.

We had a really hard time with this and one bad experience! It just doesn't feel right!

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I've been to Europe many times over the years and just got back from a three week trip there. We saw tip jars at some gelaterias in Rome. And while not as expected, it's become much more usual to round off the bill wherever you go unless you've had really bad service. And not just for American clients.

What country are you from and who designated you the tipping police?

If you are trying to help people perhaps suggestions rather than dictates would be the way.

OMG, Adrienne, you got me musing about the the idea of an International Tipping Police force.

--Manned booths at all entry points in each country.
--Would pass out user manuals the location, spelling out strict repercussions if local tipping rules not followed.

Wonder what we should suggest for starting wages. Any uniform suggestions? Perks?

AllessandraZoe - I'm sooooo glad I wasn't sipping my coffee when I read your post - I'm still laughing!! So funny!

I do think everyone should carry special tipping purses with a little pocket that the tipping cheat sheet slides into so the rules are always handy.

Are beatings allowed for over tippers?

As for uniforms - I've always loved those red capes flung over one shoulder - so jaunty!

re: beatings...

...At the very least, they must roam restaurants with little rulers to rap on the offending non-tipping or under-tipping or over-tipping knuckles.

I respectfully disagree from my vantage point in SW France. Tip bowls are often in hair salons and I've seen them at two ice cream stands.

Yesterday we had a wonderful lunch at a new place in St. Lizier. The total was 162€ for 4, we paid cash, rounding up to 170€.

I tip taxi drivers roughly 8-10% depending on luggage handling and will continue to do so, no matter where I am.

I really don't give a damn what anyone thinks of my tipping practices. I tip roughly in line with local expectations. But, I don't automatically tip 20% in the US unless the service is exceptional.

By the way, if anyone is down this way, the new Le Carré de l'Ange in the Bishops' Palace in St. Lizier is excellent. It's at the top of the village; the view of the Pyrénnes from the terrace are incredible--very
comfortable seating on the terrace or inside.

Are beatings allowed for over tippers?

Absolutely!

These are really just suggestions, Adrienne. Not telling people what to do although I guess that is what you understood from the title. A better title might have been " Americans, when take a holiday in Europe, you can also take a holiday from over tipping." Many Americans don't know this and feel compelled to tip, overtip and to tip everywhere.
But please feel free to tip if you like. Its your money.

should read, views of the Pyrénees and the village are

I'm waiting for them to remove those non-existent "tipping saucers" in the restrooms and also waiting, obviously IN VAIN, for people to BUTT OUT when it comes to MY tipping.

"I really don't give a damn what anyone thinks of my tipping practices. I tip roughly in line with local expectations. But, I don't automatically tip 20% in the US unless the service is exceptional."
So, you tipping is based on your comfort level while in Europe or at home. How do you feel about a European visiting the US or Canada and tips according to his or her customs and comfort level?

I am British, live in the Netherlands and holiday in various European countries as well as the US.
I don't tip chambermaids, the pilot, nor even my hairdresser, but I often do tip when I have a meal out, when the service is good, and we have had a lovely time. We round it up to a nice round amount, and that doesn't mean €100 when the bill is €98 either.
On the rare occasion I take a taxi I again round the amount up to any easy amount to pay.
I leave my change in the jar at the ice salon, or on the table in a café.

I do so voluntarily but I do tip for good service. People appreciate it.

I hate the compulsory "tips" in the US just because the staff don't get a decent wage. I know many of them make an excellent living from their tips so don't want the system changed there but I can't see why I should be compelled to tip up to 20% for what is often below par service.

This one probably needs some popcorn.

This one probably needs some popcorn.

My questions to you is what will you do with the change that you get back? In your pocket or in the JAR?

What to do with those Italian rest room matrons who won't let you pee if you don't tip first. Perhaps it's not a tip since they hand you 2 non-absorbant sheets of TP?

And in Krakow (at the bus station rest room) the woman handed me back my 2PLN and told me I had to pay 3PLN or I couldn't go in!!

Maybe we need police not just for the tippers but for those folks who demand a certain tip!! LOL

PS I always tip the pilot.

I wrote that I tip ROUGHLY in line with local customs, I did not mention a comfort level.

Europeans needn't tip if they don't want to in the US and should look at the bill carefully to determine whether or not a service charge has already been added. Zero tip for decent service might result in some verbal abuse, which I don't condone, but I would advise going to the US with a thick skin if you intend to zero tip.

I would expect Europeans to know that the salary structure for wait staff is different in NA, but at the end of the day, it's their decision.

>My questions to you is what will you do with the change that you get back? In your pocket or in the JAR?<


I'm British. I tip in restaurants, taxi's and at the barbers in the UK. When I'm abroad I follow local practice. My sphincter never goes into spasm at the thought I might be breeching "tipping etiquette".

Not had a good tipping fest for some time.

>Not had a good tipping fest for some time.<

Good innit! I might open a beer while it's on.

"I would expect Europeans to know that the salary structure for wait staff is different in NA, but at the end of the day, it's their decision"

Maybe or maybe not and no more than North Americans would know the salary structure for wait staff in Europe.

"My sphincter never goes into spasm at the thought I might be breeching "tipping etiquette"." This is a good thing and you can avoid unnecessary visits to "Madame Pipi". Not sure what she is called in Italy.

As a traveler, i would respect the practice of tipping 20% in the US, although i can't understand why they are getting paid from the business owner that little,so that tips are obligatory.

In Europe even though in most countries service charge is included, this doesn't mean that waiters don't expect a tip, of course not as generous as in NA.

Does this apply to bribery as well?

Even when Americans are generous they are criticized.

Weegie and belted_galloway--Beer sounds really good 'bout now. Make mine a good IPA, and buy one for the bartender on me.

<< I might open a beer while it's on >>

That can of beer might cause a trip to the loo and you might have to tip!!

Yes, good stuff, Alessandra, that is the thing to do in Britain if I am not mistaken. You offer a drink to the bartender in lieu of a tip. That's the spirit!

Uh, Travelme, it's not in lieu of the tip. It IS the tip. It's just a more egalitarian way of putting it.

If the bartender want to drink with the money I've given him permission to take out, fine. If he doesn't, he can just keep the money.

I' ll buy everyone a pint for every new, relevent point that's raised.

Mr Pink every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Yes, its an interesting way of handling it, AlessandraZoe. However, its not expected each time you buy a drink whereas in the USA......

Sorry just done a Health and Safety Risk Assessment on that link, there is some naughty language. So don't click it if you are under 18 or live in Massachusetts

Ok, thanks for the tip.

>Yes, its an interesting way of handling it, AlessandraZoe. However, its not expected each time you buy a drink whereas in the USA......<

It's not expected at all. I might do it a few times a year in my regular pub. Generally never anywhere else. I know plenty of people who never do it at all and some who might do it a bit more frequently.

I am happy to pay poor Madame Pipi.

Minimum wage in France is currently 9.22€ an hour. It is going up 2% on July 1st. Please increase your tips accordingly.

kerouac - is the minimum wage for the entire country or is it adjusted regionally?

Weegie--When we are Americans in Ireland, we are EXPECTED to do this. After all, we're basically eejits, as everyone knows.

>Weegie--When we are Americans in Ireland, we are EXPECTED to do this. After all, we're basically eejits, as everyone knows.<

It's hard to argue with the facts ma'am.

I'm reaching back in my mind, ah yes...

I tip
my lawyer,
the aircraft pilot,
the customs officers,
the check in staff (except Ryanair where it an enforced extra), the trolly dollies,
I make a note to send a tip to the star of the movie I watched on the flight over,
the taxi driver,
the hotel check in staff,
I mail a tip to the TV news reporter who I watched for ten minutes.
I leave a tip in my hotel room and I tip the breakfast staff.
I also send a small message to the weather forecaster who told me it was going to be fine even though it's chucking it down.

What do they say, when visiting a foreign place "take nothing but photos and leave nothing but memories".

"I don't care I'll ignore local culture and do it my way because I'm.... big"... heard it in the playground, stop it now.

Looking forward to the 2013 season.

I tip the Fodorites who give such useful advice on tipping.

Tipping 20% in Europe does make you look a bit,, hmm, what is the word, "stupid" maybe? They sure will like you though, they are rubbing their hands in glee... but they know as most locals know, that that tipping practice is not Europeon but an American habit brought with you. Tippping 15% make you more Canadian, and tipping 5% makes you more local,, lol Ok this is just joking around.. but I do understand some Americans really do not understand that the service workers are paid differently in Europe, not the pathetic slave wages of American( in some states they actually have minimum wages of 3 dollars an hour for waiters!!) this is because the American public has been trained to accept paying the employees living wages so that the restaurant owners don't have to.

Regarding tipping "Madame PiPi"
I feel like starting another thread on that, its not just tipping, in some places you are actaully "paying" a wage as free standing washrooms ( like on the grounds of some chateuas in France) are actually "concessions" the people running them pay the site a fee to lease them, then they are responsible for cleaning and running them.

In Scotland we only tip flies.

>In Scotland we only tip flies.<

But we fine you if you do. So Yanks beware, no flytipping!

>If you have never been to Europe or haven't been in a while and forgot, you don't tip as you are required to back home<

This is such a silly posting on a forum where the majority of long-time participants are either European by birth, live in Europe, have second homes in Europe, or travel to Europe 2-3 times a year.

Thin

Adrienne, minimum wage is different in overseas departments like Martinique, Guadeloupe or Mayotte.

But Pep, I was so expecting your input on Tipping Police attire!

"I tip
my lawyer..." You laugh but I am pretty sure that in Canada you pay a tax on legal fees. I could be wrong on that but I know for a fact that you do pay a tax on a realtor's commission when you sell property. So maybe a tip should be offered to a lawyer.

Agree with Thin .

Sorry I tip cab drivers - but not the 20% I would at home - bellman who haul luggage around, and in restaurants - again not the 20% as at home - and not much where it says service included. And if I get special service in a hotel - different pillow or extra towels or whatever I tip for those too. IMHO when you use people's time for something extra you should compensate them.

As for tip jars in self service places - I don't use them in either the US or elsewhere.

people's time for something extra

Maybe if you force them to work overtime! Otherwise, catering to you or catering to somebody else is all the same to them, unless your objective is to make sure that you get better service at the expense of somebody else who might not get good service because you need the chambermaid to massage your feet.

" This is such a silly posting on a forum where the majority of long-time participants are either European by birth, live in Europe, have second homes in Europe, or travel to Europe 2-3 times a year."
Perhaps this is true for those so fortunate but it is by no means uncommon to read about first time travelers to Europe and this information could be useful to them. This might shock you but not all of us have the luxury of traveling to Europe 2-3 times a year.

I don't understand the apparent reluctance to tip the chambermaid, who often has a thankless job but does much to make one's stay pleasant. Is it because she is out of sight, out of mind?

I'd much rather leave a euro or two on the pillow than in a tip jar at a Starbucks.

I do agree with 29Feb and I do tip chambermaids wherever I go.

Canadians are told to tip in Europe even if we don't buy any goods or services. So I tip cab drivers in Europe even if we don't take a cab. Same with that gellato stuff. Leave a euro on the tray as we pass by.

Sounds like we got bad advice.

I work completely out of the public eye, and I do a good job. Please send me some tips, too.

I dont work but have a tip for the 3:30 at Newmarket next week. Send money now!

"this information could be useful to them"

Actually, I don't think so.

There are large and small general variations in tipping practice in each country, and there are large and small tipping tendency variations among individuals. Sweeping generalizations just don't work.

I have a friend here in the US who will tell me that she would NEVER consider tipping more than 10% at a US restaurant--and she adds a little "sniff" when she says that. When a group of us go out, we make sure she isn't in charge of the bill. We'd never be able to show our faces--or eat our soup--again.

Perhaps she's posting here. No one would know her authority level is zip.

Then I have another friend who does 25%* regularly. Sorry, I'm not going there. Yet I'm sure there are people on this forum who think that would be appropriate.

So before I take anyone's advice on tipping, I want to see if he's ever ponied up for his round of drinks--or is he conveniently in the loo.

*My exception to this 25% thing: I'll tip at least 25% if I've taken table space for an hour or so at breakfast while chewing the fat with friends. The meal itself is usually cheap in the US and so the extra % for me is actually very little; however, the financial impact of sitting there without ordering anything else and getting endless coffee refills can have huge negative impact for that specific waitstaff shift.

That's because they have to work for tips instead of a salary. That system is so sick.

All these posts make me wonder about cruise ship tips. The cabin steward gets a minimum of $10 per day per couple. And the waiter gets a good size tip also. Do they not receive wages from the cruise line? I know this should be on the cruise forum, but I just thought of it as I read this post.

"Actually, I don't think so" So you still think that a traveler from the States or Canada who leaves 15-20% tip at a restaurant in Paris is ok. If the traveler reads this post he or she might no better. Still not convinced, Alessandra?

Correction " might not know better."

what is a big deal anyway?
One leaves a few extra euros to a taxi driver or a waiter....they smile and thank you graciously.
While spending several thousand dollars on a trip, might as well make some working
person's ( who is hardly rolling in it) day a bit better.

Scatcats,, cruise staff get a much lower salary, it wouldn't even be a minimum hourly wage in North America( don't you ever wonder why none of the cabin staff and waiters are from 1st world countries,no, they are almost all from 2 or 3 rd woruld countries) They also get NO days off , and only a rotating few hours off to go into a port , often just once a week,, they work on contracts ranging from 3 months and up before they can take time off to visit home. Their lives are gross.. read up on it.. but keep this in mind too,, they are happy to get 2 bucks an hour from the cruiseline for 15 hours a day,, since they may only get .50 cents an hour for same hours in their home country.. (plus they do get three meals a day so can send all their wages home)

justineparis

Yes, I figured they were paid small amounts like the wait staff in restaurants here in Texas. That is why I always leave an ample tip at home and on the cruises I do tip in Europe, but not the 20%-30% that I do at home.

We enlightened Americans bring our tipping tradition with us because you stoopid Yorpeens don't know the right way to do things. Dispensing largesse makes us feel superior, especially in relation to the minions that we patronise. They love us for it, the poor sweet little things. They love us more than they love you locals.

What's that you are saying? Did I hear you right? Are you calling me an UGLY AMERICAN?

When I went to Spain with my friend last year, who insisted on tipping American style. I don't tip that much when I'm in Europe, but I must say that we were VERY popular in the hotel in Sevilla where we stayed for five days.

Faces lit up when we entered the dining room!

Well, there is nothing better than a well-lit face, Peg!

>You might be shocked<

The last time I was shocked was when my good friend, Tippy Middleswarth (the potato chip heiress), painted all her mahagony wainscoting white and robbin-egg blue, disgarded all of her custom draperies and put up calico curtains, then threw a party where she served--the audacity!--oeufs a la neige--not with creme anglaise--but with sabayon sauce in a nod to her trip to Laos and Vietnam--that was the last time I was shocked.

So, no, sweetie darling, you can not shock Thin anymore.

Good night,
Thin

scatcat,, wow,, I have heard of people tipping 20% even 25% ,, but 30 % you are definately popular where ever you go! lol I do tip by a slightly different system then many of you, for instance i do not always go by the bill total. A waitress that serves me 2 or 3 courses and keeps my drinks filled does not deserve to earn less tips if the bill comes to 60 dollars for two, then the waitress in the place where the bill comes to 100. I usually tip up based on service,, and I also tip down too,, ( we paid min,wage here so I don't feel guilty) sucky service gets you 10% or less, great service might get you 20%..

If I go somewhere real cheap, I would never tip less then 2 dollars, even for a coffee and a muffin.

In Europe ,, I round up like a local,, but if its 9.80 I would leave 1.20 rather then .20( which is what many locals would leave0 ,, I just feel creepy leaving less then a euro( unless it was just one drink at a cafe) . If waiter was a real snot, I would leave nothing and not feel bad about it, this however had been very very rare.

justineparis

I live in a very small town. Everybody knows everybody. We are served by the same person almost every time. It's a good idea to keep your server happy. I've heard too many tales about what can happen to your food. Even Dr. Phil told some things he saw during his younger days working in a restaurant.

Hey you Europeans, don't be so cheap when you come to the United States. People work for tips here, so try not to act like superior ugly Europeans by stiffing these poor people, because we do not have the same wage system as you.

Especially the Frenchies.

Travelme--To answer your question, I just go back to the Royal Highness Thin's point--almost every single person reading this post has been there, done that.

There are plenty of useful tipping references on the internet, and I think a list of links of practices country by country might be useful. Emphasis is on the word "might".

If in the United States, in just my own circle of friends, none of them agree on the "right" tipping amount for our lunch, then who in the heck can nominate himself as the Tipping Police authority for the world? (Adrienne's original point).

Furthermore...I could care less if I overtip in Europe (and I do go into "European mode", so my "overtipping" would be within a few Euros of some European's "right").

Who exactly gets hurt?

Sorry, I'm not going to be a tightwad in any situation, home or abroad, to please anyone.

And like Aduchamp, I think it's inexcusable to visit the US and say, "Well, I don't tip at home so why would I do so here?"

Scatcat--I'd tip your repeat server big, too, but not because he/she is going to spit in your soup. I sure never spit in anyone's soup, and I only knew one person who did that. I never spoke to him again.

Why you are right to tip big: Bet you bottom dollar that before you even sit down, your waiter/waitress has your "regular" order in, and coffee is on its way. It makes sense to tip well for your substitute "mom" to take care of you.

As you know, a lot of people go to breakfast and spend one hour, two hours occupying an area with their breakfast cronies and pay 10% and still expect their wait staff to refill, refill, refill. The only way a waiter/waitress makes money on tips for breakfast shift is on pure turnover. Therefore, while the cronies have a great time, the waiter/waitress loses all possible income while they occupy that table unless people do some solid overtipping.

Step one: The U.S. should get in line with the rest of the world and add the sales tax into the price to be paid for purchases before you reach the cash register. This is perhaps even more annoying to foreign visitors than the pathetic tipping system (which could also be solved by raising all of the restaurant prices 20% and eliminating tipping).

Why is that Americans think it's fine to practice their tipping habits in other countries (including totally non-tipping countries like China and Australia), but then not for people from those countries to practice their habits in the US? When in Rome, and all that.

I think that some people miss the "Ugly American" moniker that made them world champions in one domain. They are trying to bring it back with arrogance and tossing money to the "underlings."

Kerouac writes:
This is perhaps even more annoying to foreign visitors than the pathetic tipping system (which could also be solved by raising all of the restaurant prices 20% and eliminating tipping
_____

Well then how would unscrupulous French bistro owners screw the waitstaff out of tips. Com'on get with the program.


Yes Kerouac, there is only one way to do things right. Take the Euro for example....

Adu--You read my mind.

How the French institutionalize prejudice and class distinction, is clearly superior to the way America does it. And that should be the new defintion of arrogance.

We live in NYC and last year we had 50 million visitors. And there are no ruder and dismissive visitors than those who speak French. Unfortunately I cannot discern a Quebecois accent from one from Paris as opposed to another French region.

So for the sake of bigotry, I will lump all them together. And that dismissive and arrogance certainly is on display here.

Oh this is the stuff! More vitriol please, this is what tipping threadds are all about.

When I first started traveling 40 years I was apologetic about American behavior abroad. And there are times when I still am. But there are a couple of things that tire me out.

-Getting pummeled for not adhering to all the customs of a foreign nation and then being berated for our own customs at home by people from other nations think theirs are superior to ours.

-The other thing that drives me nuts is when Americans are criticized for not knowing about the culture and history of a coutnry we are visiting. While this is generally true, it is not true for all. Besides the fact Mrs. Adu and I try to read about that, one reason we are visiting that country to better understand that country. This criticism arises out of both a sense of national pride and insecurity and that their culture is not worthy of attention and admiration.

So now when someone says to me how come you do not know X or Z, I will say that there are over 200 countries and is hard to know about each. And by the way can you tell me who is President of Uruguay and who was the last Pole to win the Nobel for literature?

When I was a lad......

Aduchamp, first , Quebec people are from Canada,, in Canada we tip, it is normal, so if you cannot tell a french speaking person from France from one Quebec, then you are not paying attention to their tipping habits.
Secondly I find amusing that you think you know everything, you have met all the tourists, that visit New York, you can make a judgement about who tips or not, I seriously doubt you have much if any experience in the service industry to begin with ( what you were a waiter in college for one semester 30 years ago ).
Lastly, many countries have a no tipping lifestyle Australia and New Zealand most certainly do, so much so that in Hawaii the restaurants put little notices in them to explain the tipping policies to the customers, and we know thats not for the other Americans to read now don't we,, and yes, they messages are in english,, Hawaii gets a fair amount of Aussies.
So its not just Europe and Europeons.. ( and Germany is really no tipping,, we have German family who I have to sneak money into the bill fold after they leave the table when they treat to a meal out here, its so embarrassing)

Lastly

Lately in Europe, I notice that when I use a credit card at a restaurant there's a line to include tip.

Aduchamp, first , Quebec people are from Canada,, in Canada we tip, it is normal, so if you cannot tell a french speaking person from France from one Quebec, then you are not paying attention to their tipping habits.
_____

Please re-read my posting reagrding my comments about French speaking visitors, I did not mention the word tipping once. It was about general arrogance and dismissive behavior. And as I noted I cannot tell the difference in French accents.

So please find something else to get exercised about.

Grasshoper
this has always existed, at least in Greece, where i am

justineparis
In Germany there is a tipping habit and waiters are expecting tips ( i have some friends that are working as waiters in Germany)

For the last time Adu, Quebecers know the difference between Mickey Mouse and Mickey Mantle.

In NYC the vast majority of people who work in the food industry are immigrants. In fact, so many men from Central America have become sushi chefs that a new word has been invented in Spanish sushero. There are over 450 languages spoken here, so we have a rough idea of other people's traditions, cuisines, and cultures. Probably more than any other city in the world.

The much bigger problem is the Europeans who come to the US and fail to tip the wait staff. I live in NYC, which is one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world, and European tourists have been flooding our streets in the past few years due to the weak dollar.

Europeans who don't tip (or leave something cheap lick 5-10% tip) are considered terribly rude and have thus earned a very poor reputation for all Euros. This non-tipping reputation is a much bigger black eye for Euros than the 'non-language speaking' reputation is for Americans.

For the last time Adu, Quebecers know the difference between Mickey Mouse and Mickey Mantle.
____
Man, now I know why Lindros did not want to play for the Nordiques and the team had to leave the country in order to win the Cup. Go Sens!! (Well some times.)

As a Scot, for 25% I'll go and get the food from the kitchen myself.

We were in Scotland last month and you guys are among the nicest people we have ever met. You are welcome in our kitchen.

I find this topic useful. I am going to Europe for the first time next week and had I not read this conversation, I would have tipped as we do at home. Seems like I would have spent money unnecessarily. Thanks

Have a good trip yougo. And please keep your voice down. Especially if you are wearing shorts.

Keep my voice down?? Huh? Wearing shorts? No quite following you,coldupthere. Thanks though.

Nobody follows colduphere (coldupthere) as they boldly go where no Fodorite dares to go, even while wearing a fannypack.

wow I was bored on Sunday afternoon, good ramp here. IMHO it is no one's business how much I tip and where. What difference does it make what nationality you are - if you are in a restaurant and you get good service and it is your style, just do it. And frankly I get really tired of rude behavior being blamed on the North Americans, they better be darn glad they are coming to spend their money in their business no matter what they are wearing, tennis shoes, flip flops or whatever (not that I wear tennis shoes in Europe, just once, first time twenty five years ago, boy those pictures look different). I have been in hotels and awaken at night by loud drunks and trust me it was not the english language. Who makes all these rules anyway, how much you tip, what you wear? Your hard earned money that got you there, do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

Yougo that is additional useful advice you can find on other threads. People here are great about telling novices how to act in Europe. Don't talk loudly and shorts are for rubes. And learn 10 phrases in each country you will visit. And watch out for pickpockets. And don't ask who won the Aggies game.

returntoyourseat - so, by that logic, if it is not your style to tip you shouldn't tip, even in North America? Sigh.

<including totally non-tipping countries like... Australia>

Not true, unfortunately, but often it's just a round-up to get rid of the shrapnel. It's "compulsory tipping" that really gets our goat.

Cold: We had my much younger friend Brett as a guest at our cottage near Renfrew this weekend.

Last evening, after dinner and a few -- many -- drinks, he mentioned casually that in Ottawa, some or perhaps all lap-dancers do not give change. Whatever bill you offer them, they keep.

He asked for a certain amount back from a bill -- it was a 'guy night out', a buddy ordered him a lap-dance -- and the "artiste" simply announced "We don't have change" and pocketed (or anyway tucked away) the bill.

I have no way of knowing whether this is accepted practise in our city and thought I'd ask for some insight and/or corroboration.

Tedgale - I will see what I can find out tonight. I know one thing the lap-dancers will not accept as payment is a return dance. Many times I have suggested they dance for me and then I will dance for them. There must be a rule against that as no dancer has accepted my offer. So far.

It might be a union issue.

One of the curiosities of human nature: Everyone, however degraded, debauched or perverse, has SOME standard of public decorum.

Aduchamp,, mmm I am confused, do you actually mean that you think that by merely beinga a french speaking person , a person is arrogant or dismissive..?
Wow, I could never make such a broad and dismissive statement about anyone or anything, you have exceeded my expectations.

I personally cannot imagine anyone, be it any style, not tipping hard working people in the service industry. It shouldn't matter what country you are in. If I were at a table and someone wasn't willing to tip the waiter, I would not be dining with them again. I just think it shows no class. Now as those lap dances go I wouldn't have a clue, that could get real iffy.

Just trying to keep the tradition of the Ugly American alive! And he's doing a great job.

After 42 years of travel I am always open to embrace and understand local customs.

The shaking of a muslim's right hand only, the rafts of Italian grammar, the rubbing of noses In New Zealand, long trousers in 45oc for the Greek church visit, the flogging of women for dancing in Afghanistan, the imprisonment of homosexuals in Iran, Vodka for breakfast in Russia, burgers for breakfast in Munich.

In South Carolina this October, will even tolerate the paying of $25 to carry some plates 20 yards and smile a bit.

Magical thing travel and never forget it.

Aduchamp,, mmm I am confused, do you actually mean that you think that by merely beinga a french speaking person , a person is arrogant or dismissive..?
Wow, I could never make such a broad and dismissive statement about anyone or anything, you have exceeded my expectations
___

No I mean pushing in lines, rudely walking down the street as if they owned it, etc. Generally exhibiting behavior that is considered boorish in most civilized societies.
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As for keeping the Ugly American tradition alive, it takes people like Kerouac to propagate it, especially when he refuses to recognize his own shortcomings.

As stated in other topics, we have made life long friends with people from other countries through our travels. And the friends we made in France were from the UK.

I know when the US becomes a second rate power, that we will not handle it better than the French, and then we will have more in common than you can imagine.

"It shouldn't matter what country you're in"

Of course it matters what country you're in. What shows no class is insisting on following your own customs in other people's countries.

This gets back to the same characteristic that was discussed regarding language in France, being unforgiving. In most countries when you try to speak a few key phrases in that country's language, it is appreciated to varying degrees. In Paris, you are greeted as a leper with a bad accent. Here is the same attitude of unapologetic unforgiveness.

Adu, you have written about your dislike for French speakers. Is it possible that while you were in Paris, your feeling towards these people somehow came across through your actions or gestures? Could it be that the way they responded to you had something to do with your behavior?

Yougo, exacly my feelings! I wonder on which side lies the arrogance.
And since we are into generalizations, not all French speaking people are French. They can be Belgian, Swiss, West Africans, Canadian, come from North Africa, Luxemburg, Djibouti, Vietnam, Andorra, Italy (Val d'Aoste, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Mauritius etc......

See my post above.

"rudely walking down the street as if they owned it"... lol, ok now I get it,, you are just a person who has decided not to like the french,, or anyone who speaks french... since you have now decided that even the way they walk is offensive.. lol

Aduchamp should start a new thread with the theme :
i don't like the french......

Walking down the street as if no one else is on that street is simply rude, especially in crowded streets, I did omit loud, because that is how I know they speak French.

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In all my travels, the people I have had trouble with are the French and the Guatemalan military. And the Guatemalan military let me go after scrutinizing my credentials.

Adu - offer to show your credentials to any French people you meet. They must be very impressive.

Let's hope the French military do not read Fodor's.

Adu - offer to show your credentials to any French people you meet. They must be very impressive.
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I have a stamp collection and a gold fish.

Adu, You must have been in a parallel Paris.

Aduchamp,, are you trolling,, I mean, I know you are a long time poster, not a newbie troll, but to say the french speak loud proves to me you are now basically making up stories,, the french do not speak loudly. So I can only assume you made that statement to provoke people. How sad.
I guess you give off an air that is especially offensive to all french speakers in the world since you appear to be in the minority who have only encountered loud and arrogant french speakers( oh, dear, my child is learning french in school, I do hope it doesn't transform her into the monster you predict, lol ) and felt you were treated badly,, they run you down on sidewalks and yell, geesh some have all the bad luck.. lol
i should sign off now, this could go round and round, but I haven't been on this forum long enough to know all the personalities, but I have certainly learned about one!

That is fine Justine but then again chauvanism is founded in French.

The French are absolutely obnoxious in stores, restaurants and on the streets. My favorite French speaking story has nothing to do with being obnoxious but is just plain funny.

I am walking down the street and hear behind me two men loudly speaking French. They finally pass me and they are dressed hip-hop complete from the open laces to the pants hanging off their ass, bling, a backwards baseball cap with the practiced saunter. And I thought they have accepted what they think is the best of American culture.

We certainly got our monies worth on this one (without the 25% obligatory).

"but then again chauvanism is founded in France...."

At least they know how to spell it. And, again, very, very broad assumption. The kind that makes us (Americans) bristle.

Adu is probably going to demand a tip. In loud English.

>We certainly got our monies worth on this one (without the 25% obligatory).<

I may need more popcorn for this one. I sense it heading for the two hundreds.

Those KFC buckets come handy for fests like these. Get a bucket of fried vermin, chips and a bottle of coke for a tenner. Usually get you through to post 150.

Any thread above 200 makes the "tip the pilot hall of fame".

apologies if I'm repeating points made here already, but there are no hard and fast rules that cover the whole of Europe. Britain is IME rather different to say holland and Germany or even Italy, where 10% more or less is added to the bill as standard.

on our weekend away [in Somerset] we routinely tipped 10% in restaurants where no service charge was added to the bill, but nothing for the girl who carried our bag to our room. I didn't buy a drink for the landlord of the pub where we watched the rugby and the football, and I didn't tip the petrol station attendant.

and we wouldn't dream of tipping the lovely volunteers in the National trust houses we visited, though they perhaps performed the best services of all.

You are making no cents at all. :-=

Oops that was supposed to be