Alitalia - Groundhog Day?
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Alitalia - Groundhog Day?
Yet again Alitalia never ceases to surprise - or does it?
For anyone who has followel the travails of Alitalia over the last 20 years or more, the outcome of the referendum of employees who voted convincingly against the restructuring proposal supported by the company, its shareholders, its banks, the Italian Government and even its own unions comes as no great surprise.
Based upon what the Italian Government has said this is the end of the road and Alitalia will be put into administration and eventually will be liquidated. Chapter 7 rather than Chapter 11 for American readers.
For most Italians I believe the feeling is better late than never after all the (taxpayers') money which has continuously been thrown into this very deep pit.
However ..... the great fear is that somehow the Italian Government will find another way of keeping this zombie company in life.
For those considering booking with Alitalia I would suggest keeping clear. For those with bookings I would consider exploring alternatives as their planes may be grounded (the situation is so dire that fuel may have to be paid in cash rather than on credit).
There may be another Groundhog Day but many in Italy hope otherwise.
For anyone who has followel the travails of Alitalia over the last 20 years or more, the outcome of the referendum of employees who voted convincingly against the restructuring proposal supported by the company, its shareholders, its banks, the Italian Government and even its own unions comes as no great surprise.
Based upon what the Italian Government has said this is the end of the road and Alitalia will be put into administration and eventually will be liquidated. Chapter 7 rather than Chapter 11 for American readers.
For most Italians I believe the feeling is better late than never after all the (taxpayers') money which has continuously been thrown into this very deep pit.
However ..... the great fear is that somehow the Italian Government will find another way of keeping this zombie company in life.
For those considering booking with Alitalia I would suggest keeping clear. For those with bookings I would consider exploring alternatives as their planes may be grounded (the situation is so dire that fuel may have to be paid in cash rather than on credit).
There may be another Groundhog Day but many in Italy hope otherwise.
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Dukey1 - just do a Google news search and you will find many articles even in English. If you have a problem with Italian I suggest you use Google Chrome and search postings in Italian.
If you want a PhD analysis of the disaster of Alitalia I could write it in due time but it would be almost worthless since Alitalia is likely to be bust before then.
My posting wanted to highlight two aspects - the fraustration in Italy and the warning to those outside. Nothing more.
If you want a PhD analysis of the disaster of Alitalia I could write it in due time but it would be almost worthless since Alitalia is likely to be bust before then.
My posting wanted to highlight two aspects - the fraustration in Italy and the warning to those outside. Nothing more.
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The biggest beneficiaries of bailouts of Alitalia are within Italy's nepotistic political elite, who hold key financial interests and positions and earn money from the dealmaking. Taxpayers are hit up to bailout, not Alitalia workers or consumers, but this class of operator.
The workers were handed a poisoned chalice. They intelligently rejected it. Alitalia's labor costs are already the lowest of all the legacy airlines in Europe. It is not because worker's have been getting paid too much that Alitalia has been losing money. It is the lack of competitive business model regarding lucrative long-haul flights and not owning a subsidiary budget carrier.
Those who "never went back" to Alitalia from years ago obviously have no basis for assessing Alitalia's recent performance, where it earned high marks with travellers for lack of strikes, fewer cancellations plus good safety records in contrast to rivals like Lufthansa or BA.
Europe's (and the USA's) continued "race to the bottom" to benefit anybody but customers & workers, Alitalia's demise is likely to mean that some areas of Italy that are trying to develop business & tourism will simply no longer have air service. Those who worship at the altar of "efficiency" will feel a righteous ecstasy over this and feel smug they can afford to buy the extra leg room and pre-paid check-in fees, while the less fortunate struggle in steerage, getting hit over the head with their unchecked baby strollers. Thanks for the tweets -- but tend to imagine we'll be seeing you in steerage sooner than you think.
The workers were handed a poisoned chalice. They intelligently rejected it. Alitalia's labor costs are already the lowest of all the legacy airlines in Europe. It is not because worker's have been getting paid too much that Alitalia has been losing money. It is the lack of competitive business model regarding lucrative long-haul flights and not owning a subsidiary budget carrier.
Those who "never went back" to Alitalia from years ago obviously have no basis for assessing Alitalia's recent performance, where it earned high marks with travellers for lack of strikes, fewer cancellations plus good safety records in contrast to rivals like Lufthansa or BA.
Europe's (and the USA's) continued "race to the bottom" to benefit anybody but customers & workers, Alitalia's demise is likely to mean that some areas of Italy that are trying to develop business & tourism will simply no longer have air service. Those who worship at the altar of "efficiency" will feel a righteous ecstasy over this and feel smug they can afford to buy the extra leg room and pre-paid check-in fees, while the less fortunate struggle in steerage, getting hit over the head with their unchecked baby strollers. Thanks for the tweets -- but tend to imagine we'll be seeing you in steerage sooner than you think.
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Rather than stupid it's smart to ask workers to vote their opinion on "restructuring" an airline, rather then just emerge from executive meetings to tell them new cutbacks mean "you're fired". Alitalia's managers weren't so stupid as to end up like the execs of Air France did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TpGT-3Wz6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TpGT-3Wz6U
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Good information - many thanks!
I am somewhat disappointed.
I had not traveled with them for many years, as they were dreadful - by far the worst airline in Europe I traveled with by a wide margin. Very rude and never on time!
However, I booked a trip last October from London City to Rome in Business Class, a ticket at the same pricevas their lowest Economy Class, and they delivered spectacular service.
I will be sorry if they pull out of London City Airport, as I was thinking about another trip to Rome or Milan early next year.
Thank you very much for the warning! I will not be booking tickets just yet
I am somewhat disappointed.
I had not traveled with them for many years, as they were dreadful - by far the worst airline in Europe I traveled with by a wide margin. Very rude and never on time!
However, I booked a trip last October from London City to Rome in Business Class, a ticket at the same pricevas their lowest Economy Class, and they delivered spectacular service.
I will be sorry if they pull out of London City Airport, as I was thinking about another trip to Rome or Milan early next year.
Thank you very much for the warning! I will not be booking tickets just yet
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Lenna,
You should call your credit card company.
A lot of people had the same experience of OReilly and will be very sorry to see Alitalia go if it does. Air France & Lufthansa frequently go on strike, and both Air France & BA have poor reputations for cancelling flights without notice, in addition to having very poorly laid out hub airports that are understaffed, making getting through security lines quite difficult, resulting in a lot of missed connections.
For travel inside Italy, Alitalia flies every day to lots of places other airlines do not & will not. The tourist whose idea of going to Italy is going to Venice or Pisa to be with all the other tourists is not going to notice any difference to their travel needs, but other travelers will.
You should call your credit card company.
A lot of people had the same experience of OReilly and will be very sorry to see Alitalia go if it does. Air France & Lufthansa frequently go on strike, and both Air France & BA have poor reputations for cancelling flights without notice, in addition to having very poorly laid out hub airports that are understaffed, making getting through security lines quite difficult, resulting in a lot of missed connections.
For travel inside Italy, Alitalia flies every day to lots of places other airlines do not & will not. The tourist whose idea of going to Italy is going to Venice or Pisa to be with all the other tourists is not going to notice any difference to their travel needs, but other travelers will.
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Well I'll be glad if Alitalia goes down.
I have never encountered anybody concerned about anything within this company. Never.
Last time I had to fly with them' had to, I paid 5 times more than Ryanair had a connection and got snarled by their personal because we hadn't our boarding passes
We had not been issued those at origin the plane was late so we went directly to the gate which was very close.
There were 2 people there they just told us we were stupid to be without tickets and sent us back to retrieve those at their customer center.
Where we had to wait and reexpkain.
During that time the plane waited for us and took off 15 min late.
Nobody cared. And my Italian colleague was so upset I thought he would die of apoplexy.
That was 2 years ago - recent enough ?
Glad when they will disappear.
I have never encountered anybody concerned about anything within this company. Never.
Last time I had to fly with them' had to, I paid 5 times more than Ryanair had a connection and got snarled by their personal because we hadn't our boarding passes
We had not been issued those at origin the plane was late so we went directly to the gate which was very close.
There were 2 people there they just told us we were stupid to be without tickets and sent us back to retrieve those at their customer center.
Where we had to wait and reexpkain.
During that time the plane waited for us and took off 15 min late.
Nobody cared. And my Italian colleague was so upset I thought he would die of apoplexy.
That was 2 years ago - recent enough ?
Glad when they will disappear.
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There has been a lot of articles on Alitalia's situation but this is worth reading - http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...r_modern_italy
Who would book an Alitalia flight from October onwards?
Living in Como (near Milan) I would NEVER book a flight to Rome to catch an intercontinental flight - rather Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, London etc. This is why Alitalia is failing - it is Rome-centric. It is almost as if all or most of NY passengers have to travel to Washington before taking an intercontinental flight.
Who would book an Alitalia flight from October onwards?
Living in Como (near Milan) I would NEVER book a flight to Rome to catch an intercontinental flight - rather Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, London etc. This is why Alitalia is failing - it is Rome-centric. It is almost as if all or most of NY passengers have to travel to Washington before taking an intercontinental flight.
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Alitalia has tried many times in the past to promote Milan Malpensa as an alternative to Rome, but with little success. Even now, they have some very attractive prices for flights into Milan Malpensa, compared to the cost of flights into Rome. I've several times flown into Malpensa just because I could get a business class seat for less than half the cost of such a seat on a flight to Rome.
I'm not sure what the problem is. One issue is probably the distance of Malpensa from the city of Milan. The trip into the city adds about an hour to onward travel. Even Venice, which is much nearer to Milan than to Rome is 4 hours by train from Malpensa and only 4 1/2 hours from Rome. For anyone going to Florence, Naples, Bologna, or any other city in central Italy, flying into Rome is a lot more practical than flying into Milan.
I'm not sure what the problem is. One issue is probably the distance of Malpensa from the city of Milan. The trip into the city adds about an hour to onward travel. Even Venice, which is much nearer to Milan than to Rome is 4 hours by train from Malpensa and only 4 1/2 hours from Rome. For anyone going to Florence, Naples, Bologna, or any other city in central Italy, flying into Rome is a lot more practical than flying into Milan.
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Alitalia has tried many times in the past to promote Milan Malpensa as an alternative to Rome, but with little success.
bvlenci - the attempts to promote Malpensa were never serious as anyone from Milan, Como, Varese, Novara and further afield well know.
The connection times you mention actually confirm the Rome-centric preference I have previously stated.
From Milan I have caught intercontinental flights via Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris, London, Doha but never via Rome. In all instances the prices have been lower than those of Alitalia but even if the price had been higher I would still not have travelled via Rome owing to the risk of lost luggage, delays, strikes etc.
bvlenci - the attempts to promote Malpensa were never serious as anyone from Milan, Como, Varese, Novara and further afield well know.
The connection times you mention actually confirm the Rome-centric preference I have previously stated.
From Milan I have caught intercontinental flights via Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris, London, Doha but never via Rome. In all instances the prices have been lower than those of Alitalia but even if the price had been higher I would still not have travelled via Rome owing to the risk of lost luggage, delays, strikes etc.
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<i> The connection times you mention actually confirm the Rome-centric preference I have previously stated. </i>
I don't understand this. It seems to me that the connection times mostly reflect the fact that Malpensa is so far from Milan, and in the opposite direction from any other large city. I don't see how this is Alitalia's fault.
I don't understand this. It seems to me that the connection times mostly reflect the fact that Malpensa is so far from Milan, and in the opposite direction from any other large city. I don't see how this is Alitalia's fault.
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