AirBNB in London - soon to be a thing of the past?
Sep 29th, 2016, 03:57 AM
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AirBNB in London - soon to be a thing of the past?
Just eating lunch and saw a BBC news piece on the rising complaints about AirBNB rentals taking up available housing for residents of London...could London follow other cities in banning short term rentals? Based on the news piece the idea is picking up political support, especially from London's mayor Sadiq Khan. Only time will tell...
Sep 29th, 2016, 05:39 AM
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I'm not sure there are many legal powers open to either the Mayor or the boroughs to do much in that line, though I'm no expert - and that's assuming the money's there to employ the necessary inspectors and the like. It's difficult enough to keep up with bad landlords of "regular" tenancies.
In most cases, it'd likely be down to the freeholders of leasehold flats (which is where most of the irritation is likely to occur) to enforce their lease conditions on sub-letting, and that can be time-consuming enough.
In most cases, it'd likely be down to the freeholders of leasehold flats (which is where most of the irritation is likely to occur) to enforce their lease conditions on sub-letting, and that can be time-consuming enough.
Sep 29th, 2016, 06:26 AM
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There as an interesting story about this on NPR recently, only in regards to Nashville, TN. It mentioned some pros and cons of Airbnb but said it was really taking away many of the affordable housing options from local residents as owners make more money renting to vacationers. I was surprised as I never thought of Nashville as a hotbed of tourism where people would be wanting short-term apt rentals.
It mentioned one example of a low-income apt building that was rundown I guess (maybe some violations, I recall), but instead of fixing it up for the tenants, the owners evicted them all and turned the entire building into Airbnb short-term rentals. I gather it was in a desirable spot near the university or hospital or something. Also, in Nashville, apparently the majority of Airbnb rentals are not by individuals but by people who have multiple units on the Airbnb market, which indicates they aren't individuals "home sharing." These are all being considered while they are thinking of passing new legislation.
I know this isn't a European example but I think the problems in Nashville are similar to the problems cropping up everywhere and I was just surprised it had entered markets like that, it's not just Paris, London, NYC, San Francisco, etc. Hotels in Nashville aren't really that expensive, comparatively.
http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post...nswer#stream/0
http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post...akers#stream/0
It mentioned one example of a low-income apt building that was rundown I guess (maybe some violations, I recall), but instead of fixing it up for the tenants, the owners evicted them all and turned the entire building into Airbnb short-term rentals. I gather it was in a desirable spot near the university or hospital or something. Also, in Nashville, apparently the majority of Airbnb rentals are not by individuals but by people who have multiple units on the Airbnb market, which indicates they aren't individuals "home sharing." These are all being considered while they are thinking of passing new legislation.
I know this isn't a European example but I think the problems in Nashville are similar to the problems cropping up everywhere and I was just surprised it had entered markets like that, it's not just Paris, London, NYC, San Francisco, etc. Hotels in Nashville aren't really that expensive, comparatively.
http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post...nswer#stream/0
http://nashvillepublicradio.org/post...akers#stream/0
Sep 29th, 2016, 06:58 AM
#5
"I was surprised as I never thought of Nashville as a hotbed of tourism where people would be wanting short-term apt rentals."
I bet a lot of us never thought of _____________________ as a "hotbed" of people wanting cheaper transportation until Uber showed up, too.
I bet a lot of us never thought of _____________________ as a "hotbed" of people wanting cheaper transportation until Uber showed up, too.
Sep 29th, 2016, 08:20 AM
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It's not particularly easy to pass city-specific laws in England.
When they do exist they're difficult to enforce because local authorities have next to no tax-raising power (Council Tax is highly controlled by the national government), but are forever getting obligations dumped on them by Parliament with no extra financial provision.
So the officials checking on illegal lettings can be invented only by closing a few libraries. And in a climate of aggressive reduction of local budgets, even those libraries are probably already closed anyway.
I'm not sure there's that much opposition to AirBnB here yet: the big obsessions with "gig economy" companies are getting them to pay corporation tax (British for profit tax) and forcing them to stop ripping their workers off. That's probably enough for the moment on the plate of anyone committed to stripping these parasites of their delusion they're above proper accountability.
The issue will become significant if real people - workers, competitors or those fed up with the housing problem - organise serious opposition. Right now, pressure consists of little more than a letter to Khan from one Parliamentary committee.
Which amounts to no pressure.
In a way AirBnB is almost right: its impact on London's housing shortage is trivial compared to immigration, funk-holing, gazillionaires, a booming regional economy and tough conservation policies.
Anyway: Brexit will damage all that so spectacularly, AirBnB's minor addition to the problem may actually turn into a benefit if tourism is the only revenue-earner London's left with.
When they do exist they're difficult to enforce because local authorities have next to no tax-raising power (Council Tax is highly controlled by the national government), but are forever getting obligations dumped on them by Parliament with no extra financial provision.
So the officials checking on illegal lettings can be invented only by closing a few libraries. And in a climate of aggressive reduction of local budgets, even those libraries are probably already closed anyway.
I'm not sure there's that much opposition to AirBnB here yet: the big obsessions with "gig economy" companies are getting them to pay corporation tax (British for profit tax) and forcing them to stop ripping their workers off. That's probably enough for the moment on the plate of anyone committed to stripping these parasites of their delusion they're above proper accountability.
The issue will become significant if real people - workers, competitors or those fed up with the housing problem - organise serious opposition. Right now, pressure consists of little more than a letter to Khan from one Parliamentary committee.
Which amounts to no pressure.
In a way AirBnB is almost right: its impact on London's housing shortage is trivial compared to immigration, funk-holing, gazillionaires, a booming regional economy and tough conservation policies.
Anyway: Brexit will damage all that so spectacularly, AirBnB's minor addition to the problem may actually turn into a benefit if tourism is the only revenue-earner London's left with.
Sep 29th, 2016, 08:33 AM
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Reminds me of Mark Twain's premature death - "the news of my death has been greatly exaggerated" - we get these predictions of doom all the time yet airbnb flourishes everywhere= I suspect hotel interest groups may be behind it all with their political donations?
That said some regulation may be in order to week out the ones not conforming to the laws - now enforcing those laws- in Paris no one seems to be and locals complain about tourists as the real culprits and not the enofrcers.
That said some regulation may be in order to week out the ones not conforming to the laws - now enforcing those laws- in Paris no one seems to be and locals complain about tourists as the real culprits and not the enofrcers.
Sep 29th, 2016, 08:49 AM
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And in Amsterdam the city government is trying AirBnB to give the information they need to enforce the local regulations, especially the 60-day limit on letting your home. Predictably, AirBnbB's reaction is they can't give that information: they're nicely cashing in, and others can deal with the problems.
Sep 29th, 2016, 08:53 AM
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Didn't London introduce some sort of legislation quite recently to allow/support Airbnb type schemes as long as a maximum of something like 90 days rental per year was adhered to. Or it might even have been 30.
Either way, they were essentially saying we will allow this as long as the original spirit of the scheme is honoured ie short term letting of own primary residence. I can't see them going back on that quite so soon. Nor should they. Because there's been a complete hatchet job done on airbnb and the like by the media at the whim of the hotel industry.
Either way, they were essentially saying we will allow this as long as the original spirit of the scheme is honoured ie short term letting of own primary residence. I can't see them going back on that quite so soon. Nor should they. Because there's been a complete hatchet job done on airbnb and the like by the media at the whim of the hotel industry.
Sep 29th, 2016, 08:57 AM
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When we looked for a place to stay in London, it was obvious that often the same person controlled several apartments. In such an instance, it takes away from the long-term housing market. We stayed in a room rented from the occupants of the same apartment.
I make a distinction between the rental of a room and the rental of an apartment; I accept the former, and think that the latter should be banned with some strictly defined exceptions. It will not solve the housing problem, but no single attempt at enlarging the long-term market will; there is no magic bullet.
I make a distinction between the rental of a room and the rental of an apartment; I accept the former, and think that the latter should be banned with some strictly defined exceptions. It will not solve the housing problem, but no single attempt at enlarging the long-term market will; there is no magic bullet.
Sep 29th, 2016, 09:11 AM
#13
tonfromleiden: "...they're nicely cashing in, and others can deal with the problems."
As "others" should deal with what are perceived as problems by one group or in one place but not another. The question is complex and is, as some rightly suggest, defined as problems by those who stand to gain from making illegal what for many of us, on both sides of the equation, is a great help.
Where has Airbnb been held liable for breaking laws, and I'll add, if the naysayers worked hard to build a business that benefited so many, including themselves, would they be anxious to shut down at the drop of a hat when anyone yells "foul"? I think not.
As "others" should deal with what are perceived as problems by one group or in one place but not another. The question is complex and is, as some rightly suggest, defined as problems by those who stand to gain from making illegal what for many of us, on both sides of the equation, is a great help.
Where has Airbnb been held liable for breaking laws, and I'll add, if the naysayers worked hard to build a business that benefited so many, including themselves, would they be anxious to shut down at the drop of a hat when anyone yells "foul"? I think not.
Sep 29th, 2016, 09:27 AM
#15
"The benefit to the tourist is out-weighed by the benefit for the long-term residents."
I include in "so many" long-term residents (as well as tourists) who, like myself, make ends meet by renting surplus space and don't believe a time limit should be imposed on those of us renting rooms in our homes. I agree, though, that commercial use of the site, meaning rental of a number of entire residences, might be subject to some limitation. But at the discretion & policed by a community, not by the site.
I include in "so many" long-term residents (as well as tourists) who, like myself, make ends meet by renting surplus space and don't believe a time limit should be imposed on those of us renting rooms in our homes. I agree, though, that commercial use of the site, meaning rental of a number of entire residences, might be subject to some limitation. But at the discretion & policed by a community, not by the site.
Sep 29th, 2016, 10:24 AM
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I made a distinction between room rental and apartment or house rental.
<i> who, like myself, make ends meet </i> For me, that term reflects a necessity that, with possibly a few exceptions, would not apply to participants of this forum.
<i> who, like myself, make ends meet </i> For me, that term reflects a necessity that, with possibly a few exceptions, would not apply to participants of this forum.
Sep 29th, 2016, 10:51 AM
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Not necessarily true, Michael. Some of us on this forum are retired and live on some level of fixed income. Even though we have a lifestyle that is supported adequately from that income, discretionary funds for travel are severely limited for many. For example, the income from the guest room we let through Airbnb makes all the difference in allowing our yearly trip to Europe.
Sep 29th, 2016, 11:01 AM
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'real people - workers'
I love those threads when they turn communist.
Non workers are de facto no real people. I love that.
Yet workers will vote 'en masse' (en français dans le texte) for billionnaires like Trump. So it seems real people love artificial ones. Alas, life is so complex that the communistic scheme is not working. We have to take away everybody's wealth and then it will work.
Until then : no money no power. There was a word for these people in ancient times : the 'plebs'.
An what did the Romans do with the plebs ? Give them food and entertainment. 'Panem et circenses' at the time. 'Survivor' and 'the voice' on telly now, and McDo's for everybody.
So what changed ?
I love those threads when they turn communist.
Non workers are de facto no real people. I love that.
Yet workers will vote 'en masse' (en français dans le texte) for billionnaires like Trump. So it seems real people love artificial ones. Alas, life is so complex that the communistic scheme is not working. We have to take away everybody's wealth and then it will work.
Until then : no money no power. There was a word for these people in ancient times : the 'plebs'.
An what did the Romans do with the plebs ? Give them food and entertainment. 'Panem et circenses' at the time. 'Survivor' and 'the voice' on telly now, and McDo's for everybody.
So what changed ?
Sep 29th, 2016, 11:23 AM
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<i> Some of us on this forum are retired and live on some level of fixed income. </i>
Welcome to the club. I have no objection to the renting of rooms. But do not cry "necessity." The possibility to travel is not a necessity.
Welcome to the club. I have no objection to the renting of rooms. But do not cry "necessity." The possibility to travel is not a necessity.
Sep 29th, 2016, 11:39 AM
#20
"The possibility to travel is not a necessity."
For you, Michael, maybe. For some others of us, we consider that it is and no one can make that call for another. We on limited incomes may use our Airbnb income for travel or for nicer teeth or for a new deck or a well-stocked liquor cabinet, any of which may not be considered a necessity to some, but not your call.
For you, Michael, maybe. For some others of us, we consider that it is and no one can make that call for another. We on limited incomes may use our Airbnb income for travel or for nicer teeth or for a new deck or a well-stocked liquor cabinet, any of which may not be considered a necessity to some, but not your call.
