letour

Argh! Just learned that AF has cancelled my flight--reservations which I made last June are now, 18 days from lift-off, no longer valid. What was a four our wait for our connecting train at CDG is now a six hour wait; moreover, we get the last four seats at the back of the plane. Returning flight from Paris was also cancelled with similar effect.

Has anyone ever found any recourse with AF?

letour

Ann1

At least they contacted you and redirected you, Alitalia didn't do that. I called to re-confirm and they told me my return flight was cancelled. In fact all Alitalia flights from Dulles are cancelled. Other people on our flight who didn't call were never told their return flights were cancelled even after they checked in for the first flight. Some people who had there departure and return cancelled weren't told either, unless they called to re-confirm.

No, there is no recourse, but when you check in ask for better seats and you will probably get them. They don't assign all of the seats. Just get there early.

MorganB

So they changed the flight time by two hours? If thats the case I dont think you have any recourse at all. I believe it has to be a 6 hour change or more.

letour

Hi MorganB,
AF actually just transferred us to an earlier flight; it just makes what was a long wait into a really long wait at CDG. Not fun with kids.

Didn't know about any policies related to 6 hour bumping...

Thanks.
letour

Betsy

Phone AF now and ask for your seats to be reassigned.

MorganB

Ah ugh. You cant change your TGV tickets? I agree with Betsy about trying to move the seats and you can try again at the airport.

One thing you might want to consider going forward is booking your TGV tickets together with your plane tickets. Airlines actually code share with the SNCF so you can get both tickets included in one price. That way if they move the plane segment they should move the train segment as well. I havent ever really priced this however so I dont know how well it prices compared to booking seperately.

letour

Thanks, Betsy and Morgan.
I did call AF and made that demand and got nowhere even with the supervisor. The best that she would do was to say that she would alert the agents at the airport a day before the flight in case they might opt to release unused seats to us. Seems as though each flight reserves some unused seats under the control of the staff of the airport...? It's also advisable to go early and rant all over again...Are we having fun yet?

As for the train tickets, I recall from previous experience it depends upon the class of one's ticket; I will have to review the policy based upon my ticket class. However, at least on the computer, SNCF is showing the reserved first class seats (as ours are) on the earlier train as being sold out, So, it may be that I can find four seats and maybe not. It's a very busy travel time, and I may end up just wanting to stick with what we've reserved..

Appreciate your suggestions!
letour.

Betsy

Just one wee suggestion: Try phoning AF again and talking to a different agent and supervisor. Some people on the board report good results by doing this, and you don't have anything to lose by trying.

Bonne chance!

willit

I don't suppose any airline is blameless, but after several good experience with AF, I lost patience with them when they canceled my return flight arriving New Years Day with about 3 weeks notice.

I was flying Jo'burg - CDG - Southampton . They offered me an alternative from Paris, but with a 14 hour wait at CDG (This was before new compensation regulations came into force). This surprised me as they were still selling tickets for my original CDG -SOU flight at high prices.

Their initial attitude was "take it or leave it - we will refund you the money" - knowing it was Chritmas and the chances of getting an alternative flight at reasonable price were minimal.

Eventually, after much haggling they agreed to put us on the next available flight back from South Africa, which because of the time of year was 7 days later, which we agreed to take (fortunately I had the leave available).

I have reid to avoid AF ever since.

letour

Yes, that was one of their final gracious offers to me--refund our tickets. After having made down payments on apartments and having purchased train tickets, cancelling the trip at that juncture is not much of an option.

It would be interesting if some agency kept a record of cancelled flights so that one could opt to go with the airline that did it the least.

Christina

I would think it would be easier to change the TGV tickets than the airline, also. I wouldn't have expected a TGV to be sold out on those dates, but some runs that are popular times do get full. I'd rather go second class than wait two hours myself.

I don't know what you are expecting Air France to do or what calling a supervisor, etc., would accomplish. They gave you seats on another flight, what else do you want them to do? They can't make up seats to give you if none are free, and if they cancelled a flight, the one you are on now is probably full. Any airline can do these things, which is one reason I don't book air tickets that far ahead of time. It is much more likely flights will be changed in major ways.

Ann1

Christina, I totally agree with you. This is all part of traveling and 2 hours isn't such a big deal, even with kids. When you travel you have to expect things like this and go with the flow.

angethereader

But why would the supervisor tell her to try to change seats at the airport if there were really no more seats?? Sounds fishy to me. It sounds like they've got her money and don't want to give up the chance to sell those better seats.

I was in the last row once and once only. Never again. The guy in front of me reclined his seat and I had about 12 inches between his seat and my face the entire flight. The attendant actually had to ask him to put it up when the light came on.

If I can't pick my seat I reserve with another carrier.

Ann1

They always hold seats available like exit rows and others they don't give away until hours before the departure time. That's why when you arrive at the airport early you can ask for exit row or to better your seats. Sometimes if someone has gotten a reservation within two weeks of a flight, they don't get a seat assignment. (Please note I said sometimes) If they tell you the seats are full, you ask them to call their supervisor and ask them to release them. We have arrive very early and they didn't release the seats until 2 hours before the flight. The clerk called to have them released earlier. So there is no fishiness about it. That's just what they do and you have to play the game. Many times we have gotten exit row seats at the airport.

letour

Just for clarification: What was a 5 hour wait in CDG for the train is now a 7 hour wait. Two hours extra doesn't sound like much, but arriving at 6AM and leaving the train station after 1PM with children is a long wait. I didn't risk taking the earlier train when I booked, because the timing would have been tight, and any appreciable delay would have meant missing our connection.
Angelthe reader, you have it right: the supervisor acknowledged that they have some extra seats, but she said that those are controlled by the people at the airport and cannot be allocated in advance by AF. Could well be that they hold them for last minute travelers to pick up some extra money, as you suggest. I too really don't like sitting at the back, and I purposely chose seats closer up when I made the reservations. It may be the way things work, but it's still maddening when the airline just pulls flights and seat arrangements that one has carefully made in good faith. I would really like to see records on each airlines accountability and reward the most responsible airline with my business.

djkbooks

<<Could well be that they hold them for last minute travelers to pick up some extra money, as you suggest. I too really don't like sitting at the back, and I purposely chose seats closer up when I made the reservations. It may be the way things work, but it's still maddening when the airline just pulls flights and seat arrangements that one has carefully made in good faith. I would really like to see records on each airlines accountability and reward the most responsible airline with my business.>>

I would be just as upset as you are. But, ALL the airlines change their routes and flight schedules ALL the time.

We checked in behind a couple once who hoped and hoped to snare bulkhead seats (both over 6" tall). They scored and could not have been more thrilled! We boarded the plane about the same time. They had stashed their carry on items, retrieving necessaries, gotten comfortable in their seats and taken out their books - when an attendant appeared, leaned over and said, "We have a couple with an infant - would you mind moving?" To the very last row of the plane they went, bless them...(their original seats were surely better).

If Air France is willing to refund you, have you shopped other flights/fares?

Have you been successful in changing your TVG tickets?

Your six hour wait could be considerably shorter - if your plane is late, if you are bused to the terminal, if your bags take a while, if the lines at passport control are long...

Are there Prem fares available that would be worth just purchasing new tickets?

letour

Hey djk, good questions and thanks for your sympathy...Our tickets are PREMS, so they read nonrefundable/nonchangeable, so we would have to throw those away if we wanted to book new seats on an earlier departing train. Those departures read booked already in 1st class and they are not PREMs, so the cost would be quite a bit higher to buy them and throw the original ones away. I haven't looked at alternative flights, but I did check what AF would be charging for newly purchased tickets for our rescheduled flight and the cost was pretty staggering. I think that I will just try to show up early and try to arrange for some better seats if it's possible. And we'll just have to find a way to occupy ourselves for 7 hours in CDG.

Thanks for your thoughts and questions.

Ann1

They don't hold the seats open to get higher prices for the seats. They do not give seat assignments the last certain amount of people who have paid tickets. When we have made reservations at the last minute, we have been told that they can not give us seat assignments and we have to get our seat at the airport.

If you have 7 hours at the airport, why not see if you can check your luggage and take a taxi into Paris for a few hours.

MorganB

Letour, perhaps a day room at one of the hotels might be worth while considering the amount of time you have. I suppose you could also try and see if you could get any milage out of the controlleur of the earlier train. You never know, he might take pity and let you on if its not full. Only ask the controlleur, dont bother with the desk bots at the SNCF counter. That would of course require getting the entire family down on the platform when the train pulls in and quickly locating the controlleur but its worth a shot.

letour

Thanks, MorganB;
I had had the same thought about possibly a day room. I don't think that I will have the energy to run in and out of Paris at that hour, but a place to unwind might be helpful. I can look into the contolleur idea too.
Cheers!
letour