elayarae

Hi everyone,

I've been checking out the forums for a while now, and have always seen helpful advice given. Below is an early draft of an itinerary of 4 weeks in April 2015. I know it seems rushed, but I really don't anticipate another chance to make it back for many years (although I'm still just a 20-something, going on a low-moderate budget couples trip). Thanks in advance for your help!

Here's the working line-up- apart from where flights are noted, we'll be traveling by train (I'm a little intimidated by renting/driving a car on our first trip):

London - 4 nights
Paris - 4 nights (including day trip to Normandy)
(flight)
Prague - 3 nights
Munich - 3 nights (including day trip to Dachau)
Salzburg/Hallstatt - 1 night
Venice - 1 night
Florence - 3 nights (including day spent in Tuscan countryside)
Cinque Terre - 1 night
Rome - 4 nights (day trip to Pompeii/Naples)
(flight)
Dubrovnik - 3 nights
Plitvice - 1 night
Zagreb - flight home

Alternatively, we would skip Prague and substitute taking the train from Paris to Munich, stopping over for 1-2 nights in Interlaken/Bern. Obviously taking the train through Switzerland with 1-2 days there is not experiencing it, but is it worth it for the scenery in April?

Anything you would cut/substitute? I'm really torn between seeing the "highlights" as it's my first time and trying to take a more Rick-Steves-esque Backdoor trip and go to more out of the way places. Finally, I'll preemptively make the argument that we're really good with train travel, and the time spent will be more like taking a break from being a tourist, but thoughts on how ambitious it is? (P.S. if you're making the argument that it's way too much- please tell me your opinion on what to skip!).

Thank you!

elayarae

Oh! Also should mention- we are big into history, scenery, unique cultural experiences (goes without saying on a Europe trip), and food/wine/beer.

Andrew

I'd probably cut out the Croatia part entirely (even though Plitvice Lakes is absolutely amazing). Instead, slow down the other stuff and fly home out of Rome. Add at least a night to Venice and maybe one to Salzburg (if you are really going to try to head out to Hallstatt).

Have you checked out train connections (via www.bahn.de ?) between each stop? Some of them may be longer than you imagine.

janisj

Not a good plan at all IMO.

You will have 2.5 days in Paris, half a day for for Salzburg/Halstatt, less than half a day in Venice, almost no time at all in the CT.

Just a lot of dashing around and seeing nothing much.

Jean

You lost me after Munich. I don't think you've researched the time it takes to travel between these destinations. It's not just the train ride durations; it's also the time spent checking in/out of hotels, getting to/from train stations (or airports), arriving early enough to find the proper platform (or get through airport security), etc. Some of these stations are huge. Trains and planes are sometimes delayed. Blah blah blah. It just doesn't always go like clockwork.

But it's your trip, so you can do as you like.

Prague-Munich will take the better part of a day. Ditto Salzburg-Venice. Four nights in a place means 3 full days; 3 nights means 2 days; etc.

Museums and other tourist sights are not open every day. You should make sure the things you want to see/do everywhere will be open during the limited time you'll have in each city. Buy entry tickets in advance for anything that offers them.

elayarae

Thank you! Andrew- we'll definitely consider adding more time to Salzburg. I'd only just expanded from having it be another day trip from a Munich home base, but you're right- would love some more time there. As for Venice- the alternative is not going at all. It is on the top of neither of our lists, so we just want a quick taste before moving on. I've checked all the train times previously, so we're well aware

Janisj- again, I would love if you would give me your opinion on specific improvement/your recommendation on what to skip/where to add, as that would be more helpful. thanks!

KTtravel

Remember that it takes at least half a day to travel between cities so the overnight stops really allow you to see very little of that city. You have planned much too ambitious a trip to be enjoyable. Your budget will also be eaten up by transportation between places. Of all the places you listed, which are your priorities? You have planned 12 places to travel to and only have 28 nights.

Your priorities may well be different than mine but I would start with adding more time to London to get over jet lag. Are your flights set? Why are you flying out of Zagreb if you don't plan to visit there?

KTtravel

If Venice isn't on the top of your list I would cut it as you don't have time for many of your stops. Assuming your one night stops are not priorities, I would cut them all.

janisj

>>Janisj- again, I would love if you would give me your opinion on specific improvement/your recommendation on what to skip/where to add, as that would be more helpful. thanks!<<

Sorry but IMO the entire plan needs re-thinking. You have too many places in far too little tine. I can't tell you which to cut since I have absolutely no idea which are important to you and which, if any, are your dream destinations. So no, I really can't give you more specific suggestions til you give us more tha a check list of destinations.

You do mention being on a budget, so one really important thing to consider, all that travel will add a LOT to your expenses. Not only will fewer stops mean you'll see more, it will stretch your money.

janisj

And sorry if you don't think I've been helpful - but I did try . . .

elayarae

I appreciate everyone's advice- will try to do some rethinking like skipping Venice, etc. I have done a lot of looking into specific train options, for example the Munich/Salzburg to Venice/Florence leg would be an overnight trip, which I've done many times in the past. My favorite trips in the past have been more road trip types- where you travel light, get a flavor of a lot of places and move on. But I'm getting the sense that this style isn't really applicable here?

Also- I take it the Switzerland option also isn't favored (would consist of 5 hr train from Paris - Interlaken, day traveling and stopping in Luzern/Zurich before an overnight train to Munich).

Has anyone done the whole leave your backpack at the train station to explore a city a little? Is that feasible in some places (given proper research on distance from train station to city sights)?

Hez

I'd at least drop Croatia and add those days as follows...

London - 4
Paris - 5
Munich - 3
Prague - 3
Salzburg - 2
Venice - 2
Florence - 3
Cinque Terre - 2
Rome - 5

kybourbon

In a few countries you might find luggage lockers. In others it's baggage rooms where you have to stand in line to check your bags (might be weighed) and show ID. Sometimes lines can be long and sometimes you have to work around the hours they operate.

You need to cut a few places and allow time for mundane things such as doing laundry.

artsnletters

You're not really allowing time to get between destinations, so you will have significantly less time where you're going than you list.

I would question spending only a day in any of the places you've allotted a day for. The Cinque Terre in particular takes a lot of travel time if you'll only have part of a day there.

I'm with Andrew, skip Croatia and add days to your shortest stops. Alternatively, skip all your one-day stops and spread the wealth elsewhere.

Other than perhaps Plitvice, nowhere on your itinerary is "out of the way" and everywhere is a popular destination. If Rick Steves calls it a "back door," rest assured that when you get there you will see hordes of American tourists there, each clutching their Rick Steves book. Not really back doors any more.

artsnletters

The only trains that go overnight from Zurich to Munich have multiple stops. Not the way to get a night's sleep.

I'd suggest a middle road between a mile deep and an inch wide, and an inch deep and a mile wide, which is what you have now.

FHurdle

My personal suggestion is that you dump Salzburg and Cinque Terre. I don't know how to advise you on Rome. My wife and I really aren't big fans. Personally I would suggest taking away a couple of days from Rome and sticking them on Florence. Then take a day trip to Pisa and Lucca, and another day trip to Seina.

If you really want a "Back Door" experience, why don't you try something like going to Trier and renting a bike for a few days. A hotel will keep your suitcase for you and you can travel with a small backpack strapped to the bike. Bike for four or five days down the Mosel to Koblenz. There are lots of tiny little towns along the way. It's a very enjoyable trip.

mamcalice

As most everyone says, you have too many stops in too short a time. I agree that it makes sense to eliminate one-night stops as you will have virtually no time in those locations once you account for travel time. No one can really tell you what to eliminate but, if it were my trip (and it definetely is not), I would eliminate Saltzburg, Cinque Terre and Croatia and add the time to London, Paris, Venice and Rome. Your day trips to Normandy and Pompeii will be long and tiring so you will want a little more time for those.

Spend enough time in each location to actually experience it, not merely to check a box.

Mimar

If Venice is at the top of your list, don't drop it. Add at least another day. Who knows, it may sink in the not-too-distant future.

I'd also hate to see you cut Croatia, because it's just the sort of place you sound interested in. However, Dubrovnik is a very popular destination these days, definitely not undiscovered. But there shouldn't be too many cruise ships in April.

Also you can't take the train from Dubrovnik. There's no train, only a bus -- or a boat. No train to Plitvice either. For Plitvice, you'd probably bus up to Split, then switch buses for Plitvice and then onto Zagreb.

I'd be inclined to eliminate Salzburg/Hallstatt and the Cinque Terre. Too much travel for only 1 night.

You have more than a year to plan. (Love that planning.) You will find more places you want to go and more things you want to see. Instead slow your trip down, spend more time at your stops. Allow some time for sitting in a sidewalk cafe or washing clothes at a laundromat. As Rick Steves says, assume you will return, maybe sooner than you think.

dwdvagamundo

I like Hez' plan except I'd cut out the CT and add one nite in Venice and one in Florence. Do a day trip from Florence to Siena.

PalenQ

I'll preemptively make the argument that we're really good with train travel, and the time spent will be more like taking a break from being a tourist>

Here are some great sites to get a fix on planning a European rail trip - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. In many countries you can get nice discounted tickets by booking long in advance to get those limited in number discounted tickets which are also non-changeable non-refundable I believe so be careful about what you book!

so check say for Italy www.trenitalia.com - Italian railways site and for the Eurostar trains London to Paris www.eurostar.com - this train in particular has many different fares sold in tiers of availability so savings can be immense. Look for midweek days for the best availability of the cheaper fares.