A trip report with some contrarian opinions and, I hope, some trouble saving suggestions...

dupher,

I would hope that constructive critisium would be welcome on this site, and might, in fact, open up some interesting dicussions.

Go for it!

It's horses for courses, isn't it? Not everyone can like everywhere. Personally, I'm not exactly panting to get back to Rome.

dupher, many on here like to critize those who don't like the fodors "favorites", which can be rather off-puting, but we are all entitled to our own opinion and I'm looking forward to hearing yours.

Tracy

and p.s., I'm no fan of Florence, a fodorite favorite, so I can relate on having differing opinions!

Tracy

Dupher, I can't wait, please post, as I am planning a trip to Rome with my family, parents, and 85 yr old grandma. Anything will be helpful. Thanks

Encouraging reactions...as I would expect from this cosmopolitan, civilized and always interesting bunch....
The DW and I spent a week in New York and a week in Northern Virginia (with Son and DIL) before embarking on the Euopean leg. I had ticketed through Kayak and ended up with a Delta ticket, flying Air France, from Dulles through CDG to Rome, and back from CDG to Dulles. We were very satisfied with Air France in every respect. The two tickets were $1460.00. The younger Duphers were in Rome a couple hours before us (they left an hour later than us, but flew non-stop on United) They welcomed us to Rome, but said they had been unable to find the guy from Rome Shuttle Limo. Had booked them a week or so in advance. Got it sorted out..mix up with Delta/Air France Flt numbers..."Fabricio" came on the scene, apologetic, energetic and charming...off through the streets of Rome...be prepared with your best "it's a good day to die" attitude. My first question.."Where is the best gealato?" Don't think he was big on gelato, but the next thing we knew, he had parked practically in the middle of the street, in front of a gelato shop. Montecito, I think, and insisted we get out and have one...we ate gelato, Fabricio chatted with the locals and exchanged "pleasantries" with drivers struggling to get by our vehicle. We were taken in good order to our apt on Via del Gesu, near the Pantheon where we met with Mrs. Claudia who was there representing Rental in Rome, to get our money.
Getting long...I'll try to get better at this....
Dupher

Dupher,

No worries! Many of us love ong trip reports with lots of details. Do continue!

Details are the meat on the bone. Keep it coming!

Keep the details coming...my family is going to Rome in April. We, too, are using Rome Shuttle...will have to remember the gelato trick!

Have to run, but...Mrs. Claudia was not there to socialize..when she got the euros, she disappeared in a cloud of Vespa exhaust....telling us to come back after 2pm and the apt would be ready...would it be?...tune in to the next installment of "the Duphers on the road"...

Keep it coming. There are no extrraneous details so far. Loved hearing about trip to apartment with stop for gelato. Please tell all!

Thanks!

keep it coming

I was only in Rome one time but from what I saw, parking in the middle of the street was "normal". Our hotel was on a busy street and I really liked looking out the window at all the goings on. The first thing I noticed was that at the end of the day everyone was double parked. Rows and rows of cars double parked. If you were at the curb I guess you just figured you were there for the duration. Along with that, there was a car that came along and triple parked, they guy got out, left the car, went into an aparment building, came out accompanied by a girl and a guy. The girl got in the car and the two guys leaned on the trunk and chatted for about ten minutes. The traffic just went around them. So, the idea that your driver would just stop in the middle of the street while you got a gelato doesn't surprise me in the least.

I'm enjoying your report and will look forward to more.

Great example of local 'culture'. Try any of this in a US city! Europeans park on either side of a street. Some cities allow sidewalk parking as long as there is a meter walkway left. All of this is the result of infrastructure dseveloped before the car glut. Observe and be glad you live in the USA.

Dupher,
Looks like this will be a fun read!
And Tracy, I thought I was the only one who didn't love Florence. And I have been there twice.
Come back soon, Dupher.

Judy

Judy, glad to see I'm in good company! I was actually surprised to find that there are several on here who don't love Florence (there have been a few posts in the last few years). Many don't like Rome (I personally love it) because its crowded and congested, dirty and trafficy but that's exactly how I found Florence, and I was there in March (off season)!

Tracy

I'm wondering what opinion would be so contrarian that it has not yet been expressed here. Looking forward to hearing about it.

Love your writing style and I am forming pics in my head of The Dupher Tribe...settling in for a good serving of Trip Report with some educated debate on the side...

I'm bookmarking so I can find this easily - the suspense is killing me ; )

MORE !!!!!!

I need to hear the rest of this one . . .

Also bookmarking for later installments

I have to admit -- I enjoy watching the Romans drive and I loved both taxi rides. Very exciting!

More please!!

dupher, I'm really looking forward the rest of your report.

dupher, the only complaint I have so far is that your installments are TOO SHORT!!! Is this some ploy to keep us hanging on your every word? If so, it's working. More, please.

Joining those who'd like to follow along.

bookmarking

dupher:

Like your style of writing - lets hear more please about your family affair holiday in Rome, Florence, Venice, Paris. I am in for the duration.

Also if you haven't done so kindly pop over to the US board and post a trip report on the New York and Northern Virginia portion of your holiday. I'd like to hear about that as well.

Sandy

Yes, I am also waiting with anticipation!!!

DH and I wanted to spend time in Italy after a business trip to Nice.

Tracy - what did you not like about Florence? (Not to hijack the thread) any suggestions for the area?

Just wrote a new installment and promptly made it disappear forever..why is it hard to do something over?
We followed in the wake of Mrs C. and walked over to Piazza Navona to discover wrapped fountains, little toy cars which seemed to have procreative powers and several hundred racks of scarves which, by astonishing coincidence all cost 5 euros apiece. At two we returned to via del Gesu and...it was clean...and a little dingy...well, a lot dingy...also, no TV, no phone, no TP, no paper towels, no washer/dryer, no oven, no microwave and...no hot water. It did have two coffee pots, each of which made one cup at a time...... The Duphers drink a lot of coffee....... Small wonder Mrs C. scorched the cobblestones upon getting the euros. My DW rates daily shampooing of her hair about on a par with daily consumption of oxygen. The water wasn't the only thing that was cold on our first night in romantic Roma.
The next morning we had a nine a.m. rendezvous scheduled with Angel Tours at the Vatican Museum. The lack of hot water had a severely deleterious effect on matriarchal preparations and we were not off exactly on time. We did, however, arrive at nine a.m. with expectations of spying the Angels and going on a tour. This collossal naivety vanished in an instant upon witnessing what seemed to be a 21st century equivalnt of the Crusades assmbling in and around St. Peter's square...and growing exponentially.
Next..we broach the subject of hot water with Rental in Rome and Tours with the Angels...
Dupher

Looking forward to your next installment. Robyn

Hi-
I'd really like to hear more about your experience with Rental in Rome. We have an apartment booked with them for a week in March and I'm a little nervous.
Thanks!

Getting on the Dupher train.....

Dejais,
I think you will be fine..just make sure of what you are getting...they are, I believe, a rather large organization, with many apartments ( and look closely at the pictures on the internet)...just kidding..have a wonderful trip!!
Dupher

We wandered around the area near the Vatican after failing to hook up with Angel Tours. By late morning the line for the Museum had to have, literally, thousands of people in it. We had considered, and rejected, Helen Donegan's after hours tour as ridiculously pricey. If you can swallow the cost, go for it. Otherwise, prepare yourself for becoming very close to seversl hundred fellow shufflers. More later
We called Rental in Rome about the hot water and were told that someone would come to fix it. We called Angel tours and they said, just show up tomorrow morning at Galleria Savelli, on the edge of the square. Got a sandwich, stopped in an internet place, tried the new sim card bit in our "unlocked" phone and made our way back to via del Gesu, observing people and antiquities all the way; as the DW and I tend to hobble a bit after a long walk, I think we were the subjects of similar observation, fitting both categories at once.
There was still no hot water, so I went outside the apt to look around and there was a gentleman who seemed to belong and I asked him if he knew anything about the apt. Our ability to communicate was severely compromised, only because neither of us had the foggiest notion what the other was saying. I got out my best Marcel Marceau act and finally got him to understand our problem...he came into the apt, walked to a far corner, opened a panel and reset the circuit breaker. Feeling acutely foolish, I nevertheless showered him with many grazies. After a night of feeling positively giddy over hot water, we set out the next morning in cheerful anticipation of Angelic guidance through the wonders of the Pope's "stuff"
Dupher

Cant wait to hear more!

I like your writing style! Please continue!!!

After the son and DIL made several one cup pots of coffee and DW severely tested the capacity of the newly discovered hot water system, we ventured forth onto the streets and cobblestones of the Eternal City. One sometimes feels like a target on the streets of Rome.....
This day we arrived in good time at the appointed meeting place, to be greeted by a delightfully enthusiastic lady, Lena by name. Born in Norway, grew up and schooled in England, then back to Norway for University, working on PHD. We were separated into two groups of 18 each, the Duphers with Lena. We marched by the "huddled masses" and ended up in the line for those who didn't have to wait in line. Into the museum by 9:45...if you are claustrophobic or agoraphobic, stay home and peruse a really good catalogue of the contents of this building. Some personal opinion here: I have an abiding love for incredible art..no credentials that separate me from any other philistine, just a slack jawed sense of awe that someone created what I am looking at...to go through this astonishing collection in the manner which one is forced to do...barring the services of Helen Donegan....borders on sacrilege. You cannot stop to bask in the sublimity of a particular masterpiece that "speaks" to you even above all of the other creative miracles with which it resides. You must continue shuffling, or be pushed, snarled at or asked to "keep up". You are going to skip whole galleries in which are ensconced hundreds of works, each of which would command a specially scheduled exposition in most major cities in the U.S. I realize that this is railing against reality, but it is something to contemplate before you undertake this journey. I was left with this weird sense of confliction: awe sullied by dismay that there were only glimpses at best and absolute bypasses at worst.
Lena was an informative and positive guide...she discussed a very tiny percentage of what we went by...my take on this? save up and do Helen Donegan. I don't believe you will see many more "things", but I think your level of enjoyment will soar by comparison. If not that, then go during a driving rainstorm in January...have to go play golf to ease my post Vatican Museum frustration...later,
Dupher

dupher,

Thanks for your Angel Tour review. We will be taking the Angel Vatican Tour and the Angel Ancient Rome tour. We are going in February, so I am hoping it won't be as crowded, and we won't feel (too much) like cattle.

After the tour, did they leave you at St. Peter's? I understand the tour does not include the Basilica. Were you able to get into the church easily for a look around?

Dear StLgrrl, Our tour included a trip through St. Peter's. In fact one of the better parts of it was the finale, when Lena gave a very moving talk about the Pieta...surely the star of the Basilica...have a wonderful trip!
Dupher

Dupher -

I sadly agree with your Vatican museum tour experience - and we were there in February.

StLgrrl - do your homework about the best time of day/best day of week to go. It may help.

My personal vow is never to do the Vatican again unless I can afford the after-hours tour.

When we toured the Vatican museum it was during a July heat wave. It was crowded, cramped and like being in a suana. DH had dress slacks on (so he could enter the cathedral) and needless to say we both almost passed out from heat exhaustion. By the time we got to the Sistine Chapel, we were done. I agree with the idea of an "after hours" tour. If there is such a thing, I would do that.

The Vatican Museums are getting a real slogging here...

Consider that they received 4.6 million visitors in 2006. And most of those visitors only wanted to see the Sistine Chapel. Of course, it then becomes a forced foot-march by the most direct way from the entrance to the chapel.

There are vast areas of the Vatican Museums that are *not* overcrowded; I've been almost alone in the collections of Etruscan, Egyptian and classical antiquities, and the Pinacoteca has always been bearable.

But to have that experience, you have to be prepared to give the Vatican Museums more than the two or three hours of a guided tour.

If your primary or only interest is the Sistine Chapel, then yes, do Helen Donegan's after-hours tour. But only expect to see the same parts of the Vatican Museums that you see on the foot-march.

Zerlina, unfortunately to see the Pinacoteca and other less-trafficked areas of the museum, you still have to stomach the two things I avoided with the After Hours tour: queue for hours to gain entry and fight my way through the throngs to get to the galleries. Until the Vatican gets a better grip on the crowd situation, I can't justify doing either to see the Pinacoteca. I won't ruin a wonderful experience with that sort of interaction. I did, however, enjoy "everything else" in a sheer state of bliss with Helen's tour.

Dupher,
What a fun read! I look forward to more.
Judy

What are we talking price wise for miss Helen's tour? It does sound like the way to go!

Dupher, thank you for taking time to share your thoughts - I am really enjoying your report.

MollyB

BM

Dupher - I love your style. Some folk just know how to write. Your shuffling past works of art description brought immediate memories of the first time I saw the Mona Lisa. It was in 1963 or 4 at the National Gallery in DC. I came down by bus from NYC to see it. After a long wait in line and passing on hawkers selling Mona Lisa post cards, pencils, coffee mugs etc. I entered the hallowed halls. I believe the rest of the gallery was closed, or at least that wing so the Mona Lisa was the only painting one could see. "Shuffle" is the word. Shuffle and keep moving. As I approached I could see it was behind plexiglass or something like that with an armed guard on each side. One had to be directly in front of the painting to see it. Shuffle, shuffle, eyes hard right, shuffle on and it was gone. I bought a postcard on the way back to the bus for a better look.

Dupher, I am so enjoying your comments and your style of writing! Go into as many details as you can..please! I can hardly wait for your next installment.

The Helen Donegan after-hours tour of the Vatican is 250 Euros per person, for 2 hours. So it's not a casual commitment, for sure.

Thanks WillTravel! Oh my....that is far beyond my reach I'm afraid-lol!

Cheers,

MollyB

First...my thanks for the kind words....
The golf didn't help. I shot a bazillion and wished that I was back in a museum line....
I neglected to mention the ultimate irony which occurs in the Sistine Chapel. Before you go in you are prepared by, in our case, Lena, in a courtyard with several "boards" depicting the chapel ceiling. Here she can point out various items of interest which enables one, if one has the eyes of an eagle or a pair of binoculars, to quickly locate the real thing. When you finally enter this Holy Place, speaking in hushed tones, you are almost immediately admonished via a recording, which is not in a hushed voice, but cleverly speaks two or three languages, to be quiet. That will then be followed by some equally clever guards, who loudly clap their hands and shout "silencio"! Huh? Such irrational and arrogant behavior may say something about the institution that owns all of this....
It is only fair to say, though, that it is impossible to comprehend, at least for this knucklehead, what minds and skills were involved in this creation.
Michelangelo supposedly said to the Pope when asked to do this little chore, " I am a sculptor, not a painter"....right.
I am done in, sitting at the computer, frequently dozing off and waking myself up with loud and obnoxious snorts, probably directed at something I just wrote...it is absolutely the pits being 73......Good night,
Dupher

Sweet dreams dupher along with wishes that your next golf game will go better for you.

But don't forget to give us the next installment of your trip, your activities, your thoughts, the good and the bad. I am sooooo enjoying your writing style as I said before.

hi, dupher,

I'm just getting on board with you too. keep it coming.

for StlGrrl, once you are in the sistine chapel, there is door at the back on the right marked "groups". if you go through there, down the steps, and down some more steps, you end up outside the doors to st.Peters without having to walk all the way back past the vaitcan walls and going through the security queue again.

this only works if you have not hired an audio guide which you have to return to the desk where you hired it. better use a guide book!

so far as i know, the vatican stil offers its own tckets, which you book via a fax no given on thier web-site. this way you bypass the queue, and once you are in, you can do what you like. Come to that, once you are in with one of these tours, you can do what you like too.

when we were there 18 months ago, we arrived at about 8am, and were inside at 9.30. I suppose we spent 5 hours or so inside, including a stop in the cafe [good and reasonably cheap - there's also a restaurant and a pizzeria]. we then spent an hour in St. Peter's.

at least we felt that we'd had our money's worth!

regards, ann

PS - dupher - in a spirit of constructive criticism, may I put in a plea for a few more paragraphs, separated by a line or two.

that makes it so much easier to read. also you could write your post on WORD, then paste onto fodors. that way, you don't lose it all if there's a glitch.

Another drawback of being old and creaky...you wake up at 0 dark thirty.....but it gives you a little time to be thankful for the kind of people inhabiting this wonderful little cyber village that we all visit on a regulat basis. Feeling a little down? Jump into Fodortown...take a vicarious trip to Rome or a Tuscan village...exchange ideas with a hundred folks who, collectively, have been everwhere, done everything; and, best of all they are the nicest people on the planet!
I'm off for another stab at that dumb game.
Thanks for the advice, annhig; first time I've tried a trip report...
"See" you guys later,
Dupher

Duper, I am loving this. And while you are wandering around in Fodorland, you might want to check out A GROUCHY OLD MAN'S TRIP TO JAPAN AND CHINA on the Asia board!

Another take on visiting the Vatican museums for people interested in considering a self-guided visit:

My husband, 16 year old son and I visited Rome earlier this year. My husband and I had read Michaelangelo and the Pope's Ceiling (highly recommended) and studied art books and we had a good guidebook with us.

We went to the museums first thing in the morning in early March. We stood in line about an hour (had books and ipod with us for the wait).
Once inside we went with pretty much everyone else on the route to the Sistine Chapel and Raphael rooms. It was crowded and I found the Raphael rooms especially hard to enjoy for that reason. I was also disappointed that it was virtually impossible to see Fra Angelico's work in the (roped off) Nicholas V chapel
Our son was interested in seeing some of the modern art at that end of the museum complex so we detoured for that before the S. Chapel. This section of the museums was virtually empty--a pleasant break from the crowds
The sistine Chapel was easier for me than the Raphael rooms because we could sit at the side at several different points. The guards did shush everyone at intervals.

We made our way back from the sistine chapel to the entrance area, stopping at the Vatican library. Our son pointed out that by that point, around 12:30, people were walking into the entrance w/o standing in line at all. Other posts confirm this pattern seems to hold true during the times of year the museums are open into the mid afternoon hours.

In the afternoon we spent some time in the Pinacoteca which was not crowded at all. It has an amazing collection from Giotto's Stefanesci's triptych to Da Vinci's St. Jerome to Raphael's Transfiguration, etc. etc. We could stand and admire each work as long as we wanted

My husband and I would have liked to go into the Greek and Roman art galleries (had visited them years ago) but our son had had his fill of art museums, so we took a bus up the to the Piazzale Garibaldi on the Gianicolo and had a wonderful walk down, into Trastevere and back to our apartment in the ghetto neighborhood.

It would certainly have been more pleasant to see the Sistine Chapel and Raphael rooms w/o the big crowds
but an after hours tour is way out of our price range. On our own, with the crowds, with preparation, we were still able to enjoy the biggest attractions and we liked the freedom to explore other sections of the museums that interested us at our own pace.

Dupher - you mentioned 'losing' a post. If you aren't already, type it out in Word or similar word processing program and save it in a file, then copy the contents to the 'post a reply' box. This way if anything goes wrong you have everything saved and can simply repeat the copy and paste, if necessary. Just know that a page at a time is the most it will take, as a rule.

Also try using the back button when on Fodor's; even after you submit 'post a reply' you can edit your post this way. You go 'back', hit 'preview my reply' and lo! there will be an edit button (and even a delete button) allowing you to do these functions.

Looking forward to 'seeing' you again with your next installment...

Lots of fun so far dupher. Your description in the Sistine Chapel brings back memories, although in my case I was being shushed by the strictly dour nuns!

I got a chuckle out of your hot water dilema. We had the same thing happen to us in Tortola, and we too were thrilled with our newly energized hot water.

Thanks for taking the time to do this!

Cyn

I'll just add quickly that I had the same no line experience for the Vatican museums.

I did an outstanding tour with Context Rome and we were to meet at 1pm at a trattoria across the street. I grabbed at quick lunch (which I knew would be poor, but it exceeded expectations) and watched as the long line simply evaporated to nothing by 12:30 pm.

We just bought our tickets and walked straight in. This was in Sept!

Dupher, I am just joining in on your journey. We just returned from Venice... you inspire me to work on my trip report today. Waiting with great anticipation of your next installment,
bfrac

re: double and triple parking and other street habits <<All of this is the result of infrastructure dseveloped before the car glut. Observe and be glad you live in the USA.>>

I'm glad I live in the USA, but it has nothing to do with the car culture. (And I love cars, too - even more because I don't have to own one!)

dupher, I'm really enjoying your report and look forward to more. I just want to point out that if you write your report in Word and then copy and paste it to the reply box, it's not true that it will only take one page at a time. I have pasted much more than that (maybe 6-8 pages) at a time with no problem.

In Oct for my husb's first visit (my second) we opted for no tour-guide but audio-guide. It often gets a slogging on Fodor's, but we purchased easy-entrance tickets with a tour company. Met the tour rep at 9:00 am, received our entrance tix, she walked us into the Museums at 9:15 and waved good-bye. Exactly what we wanted. If I remember correctly, it was an extra E20 each. When we pay CAD $3,000 for air tix, taxes and ins to get to Roma, it seems a small cost to us.

dupher
What a writer! I'm enjoying your report and seeing Rome all over again as I read what you write. I remember the cars parking on sidewalks, and double parking and being at the Vatican and being awed by the Sistine Chapel and being in St Peter's and could not pull myself away from the Pieta and, and, and,
More please.

Back from golf..birdied the first two holes, which obviously upset the golf gods, as they injected a severe dose of reality into the next sixteen....
When Lena was through with her touching tribute to Michelangelo and the Pieta, the tour was over. At 45 euros a head it wasn't cheap, but probably worth it. Because of the Angel tour being put off a day, we had the Borghese scheduled that same afternoon; not recommended....we took one of our two cab rides in Rome to get there, arrived at three, got a sandwich in the museum and ate outside. Our reservations were for five p.m. and we had to pick up the tickets by 4:30. Now, if the Vatican would initiate a similar system, I might go back. The Borghese allows 360 people in for a two hour visit, and it makes the museum a wonderful experience. Of course, the DW and I were a bit bedraggled nearing the end of our two hours. She sat on a bench in our final viewing room and promptly did a head on her own shoulder instant nap. She is a striking lady and I think some of the tourists mistook her for an exhibet...I think she won "best in show".
This museum is an absolute must, with marvelous sculptures. We took our second cab ride back to via del Gesu, ate somewhere, showered and collapsed into the arms of Morpheus.
A rather full day....later,
Dupher

Ann,
I wrote it with paragraphs, but it comes out without them....you might guess that Computers are beyond my ken....
Sorry,
Dupher

I'm enjoying this, dupher, and will keep following it.

Techie stuff:

On making paragraphs: in Fodor's, you can't use tabs or spaces to indent (extra spaces disappear). The way to do it is to hit "Enter" twice to leave a blank line. That works:

like this.

If you want to get really fancy, type something like:

<b>Paragraph heading</b>

and it will come out like this:

Paragraph heading

Pretty soon you'll be a programmer. There's more than you want to know about fancy formatting in Fodor's posts at:

http://lkrakauer.home.comcast.net/tags.htm

- Larry

Thanks Larry,

If there is any way to mess up on a computer, I will discover it forthwith...

Simple suits me

Dupher

Hey, there you go, dupher.

Paragraphs !! Ta Dah !!

That's all you need to know.

Looking forward to the next installment.

- Larry

Dupher, Your report is a delight to read. At 73 you are still the "cat's pajamas"...

Dupher...

Really enjoying your report. Keep it coming. I'll be in Rome for Christmas and love reading about your expereince there!

Dupher,
Have you considered a stand-up
comedy routine? If you're too
tired from the journey, I'd
sponsor you for "sit down"
comedy. We love your stuff.

Loving your report dupher.

I've just come back from a trip which included a little bit of the italian lakes, wonderful!

I immediately booked a flight back to London in march and am seriously considering a quick (6days) side trip to Venice, even though I've been twice before

I am loving your writing style and the more details you give, the better. Thanks.

Thanks to you too Larry

Please dupher, forget about your golf games and give us more installments regarding your trip. Honestly, you men and your golf, lol.

Dupher,

I am in love with you! You are so funny and I love your writing style.
My husband is wondering why I am laughing so loud in front of my computer.

Please keep it coming. Could you skip golf tomorrow as loveitaly suggested and write some more?

A big ALOHA to you!

Great trip report Dupher! You have such a way with words. I can't wait to read your next installment.

Those of us of a "certain vintage" remember a movie called "Three Coins in a Fountain" Since that time...I shudder to say it...some fifty years ago, the fountain at Trevi is "de rigueur" for visitors to Rome. The Dupher bunch was not above such a visit. " It is the luxurious and dissipated who set the fashions which the herd so diligently follow" That Thoreau guy had a way with words....

Actually seeing the fountain requires infinite patience, and a willingness to put your olfactory nerves through hell as you once again mingle with the "huddled masses".

If those efforts result in an unfettered view of the fountain you will be well rewarded. It is, in my uneducated opinion, an impressive and beautiful work.
It is, though, no mean trick to get close without risking bodily harm....

So, what does one do next, after such exertions? One trots up the road....figuratively....to yet another mystifyingly popular spot...the Spanish Steps. One ponders the phenomonen of a large flight of stairs attracting thousands and thousands of tourists every year and Henry David's observation gains additional credibility...Of course, go see them...doesn't everyone?

"...perchance to dream"
Good night all,
Dupher

Actually, dupher, we didn't. [make it to the spanish steps that is].

My feet couldn't take any more than was absolutely necessary. we didn't miss seeing them at all. I'm pleased that we saved our energies for less popular but more rewarding spots, like St. Cecila's in trastevere.

looking forward very much to your next installment, with or without paragraphs and fancy

HEADINGS

regards, ann

I promise never to use the word
g--f again...

I woke up this morning with the realization that this report has taken up more time than the portion of the trip that it has covered! The problem is that I am having so much fun with it and your delightful comments that it just seems like the thing to do each day.
I will try to be more concise, before the editors tell me that I have used more than my allotted time....this is not a great start...

Is anyone else rankled by cover charges and paying for bread and water? I guess "when in Rome...", but it sure doesn't feel right.

We are off to the Forum, the Duphers...two wondrously fit and patient "caretakers" and their always game, but sometimes hobbling charges..."why don't you take transportation", you say...it is a concession that the elder Duphers hate to make, so we don't....

The Forum is a fascinating place and an attraction that we did not visit properly. I was not particularly impressed with the audio guide and we did not arrive with a good guide book...dumb mistake. You can sense historical importance here...some mighty folk walked, spoke and made decisions on this spot. Apparitions wander these grounds, if you let them...please do....we spotted our Angel Tour guide, the wondrously animated Lena, leading a group and thought we probably should have done that...got some good pictures though...perhaps with ghostly images...

From the Forum to the Coliseum and beyond

Posted the above and it remained at #39....how does that happen?...is there a message here?
Dupher

Dupher,

I believe it has to do with how many other posts are being added to at the same time - and how often the Fodor's server refreshes itself.

Enjoying your report - keep going.

dupher---My mind's eye is visualing you as a moden day Mark Twain. Your writing style is so very charming and, above all, witty.

My family of 4 will be in Rome next June. I'm hoping the Dollar will, if not rebound, at least stay stable. (?) Anyway, your humorous remarks regarding all the "must see sites" will stay in my mind.

Keep on composing--enjoying this sooo very much

Judy

dupher, I am loving your take on Rome and things Roman, and your sense of humor.

Please do continue . . .

The generosity of your comments are sort of sniffle inducing...undeserved, but positively uplifting...grazie

From the Forum to view the Coliseum....this is another "take you to another time" experience...when you see it you realize that all of the modern day namesakes are imposters...I don't believe you have to enter to get the impact....just look at it and the gladiators, Christians and lions materialize...even if they were at least partially mythological...

Had been pumping up the group with raves about "Moses", Michelangelo's glorious achievement located in San Pietro in Vincoli....St. Peter in Chains...so, being in the ballpark, at least outside of it, and relatively close to this awaiting wonder, we were off again...it was not an easy walk for the elders...up some slopes and stairs, etc. But we got there with me raising expectations all the way..."Honest, guys, it will be worth it". We arrived around one..ish, Closed until three...ouch....went down some steps, across a street, down an alley and had the best lunch we had in Rome....seemingly all local folk dining, the proprietor was quietly charming, spoke English and we had turned a grumpy event into a highlight...frightfully clever, but not so clever, I didn't note the name....sorry....

Back to the church for the opening and met with another somewhat disappointing thing...you can't get close to this statue...understandable, I suppose, but too bad...it is, nevertheless, an "oh my God" sight...if one of you can give me insight into the mindblowing genius of this man..or Bernini, Donatello,etc....I would be grateful...

Long day, but a worthwhile one...our departure from Rome draws closer....later,
Dupher

I'm still enjoying your report, dupher. I think the Spanish Steps are highly overrated. Please don't feel you have to get more concise! We like the details.

Dupher,

You are a ROCK STAR!!

dupher,

I can't wait for your take in Paris.
Thank you dupher, for taking us back to Rome with your trip report.
You are a lovely man.

Hello dupher. Oh yes, I am of the age that I remember the first time I saw Three Coins In The Fountain. That is when I decided that I was absolutely going to get to Italy and Rome some day. I don't know how many times I have enjoyed seeing that movie.

And the Trevi Fountain and The Spanish Steps. Loaded with tourist for sure! But I love the Cafe Grecco just down the street from the Spanish Steps. BTW, the only serious argument my husband and I ever had on a trip was after we fought the mobs at the Spanish Steps on a hot and humid day and than I decided to visit the Gucci Store in that area. The store was hot and stuffy, no airconditioning, a rude and sullen clerk who sneared the entire time we were there as I tried to find presents for loved ones back home. My husband finally got mad at her, not something he ever did, lol. So clever me, as we left before we were kicked out, I suggested we wonder over to the Travi Fountain. Another mob scene. Husband was not a happy camper. I think he needed a nice green golf course to visit actually. Anyway long story short another argument by the Trevi Fountain. I marched off in a huff and he walked off in a different direction mumbling to himself. An afternoon way from each other was a good thing. We met up at our hotel around 6:00pm, both in a good and relaxed mood and did have a wonderful evening at a nearby restaurant we had grown to love. A bottle of good Italian wine had us chucking about our "spat" as we obviously had been worn out from the crowds, the heat and the humidity.

Michalangelo's Moses..that was one of the first things we saw on our first visit to Rome in the 1970's. Breathtaking beautiful!

Now we will let you play a round of golf dupher as long as you promise to continue with your trip report. You have quite a lot of fans here and count me as one of them. How I wish I could write as you do!

Dupher –

At the risk of diminishing the eloquence of your trip report with mundane commentary - thought I’d assist with the name of the restaurant in question near St. Peter in Chains – it was "La Cicala e la Formica" – “The Balm-cricket and the Ant.” You can see the website at http://www.lacicalaelaformica.info/
Delicious food, nice atmosphere, no cover charge (!), and a welcome break as we waited for the church to reopen.
/s/
Natty (Dupher’s son and one of the four “compagni di corsa” to Rome and Florence)

Fabulous trip report, Dupher (and Natty)!!! As cafegoddess remarked, I can't wait until you get to Paris!

The posts from Natty and Dupherinlaw, as I'm sure you noted are from the most delightful traveling companions imaginable..DS and DDIL Natty knew where we were at all times..as opposed to his old man who was in a constant state of "where the heck are we?" and DDIL was a constant and loving fusser over our well being...we were lucky folks...
Dupher

NattyBumppo and dupherinlaw,

You two are so lucky to have dupher as your traveling companion. Dupher you remain me of my lovely father-in-law. My husband and I are taking him to Normandy in May and I can't wait.

I've got to bookmark this so I can find it again.

And dupher? The time of year has now relegated me to TV golf, and I can't believe it but I have the Singapore Open right this very moment. What you need is a dose of chilly weather so you can finish your trip report

don't shudder, dupher. Lots of us here remember Three coins..
Gtreat report.
Natty thanks for remembering that restaurant because now I know a balm cricket isn't a cricket but a type of European cicada which in France is called a cigale.

Dupher, Love the tale of Duphers in Rome! Shock, Awe and Humor mixed with Mark Twain common sense. Will be there myself in June and it's good to know the lay of the land! Thanks and keep it coming!

dupher

But of course you are kin to Natty
Bumpo. I usually just lurk and have little to say. Love the folks who can name the resturant!


You and Natty could write a book--and should. And of course I know Three Coins--both movie and Rome version. I am done with cities--maybe Prague one day--but I want only countrysides in my decline!

Final full day lacked oohs and ahs...we walked to Campo de Fiore, where the now world renowned Natty wanted to look in on some craftsmen shops. We had tried before, when they were closed and had no better luck this time...our pathfinding leader deserved better...DDIL wanted to mail a card with the vatican postmark and buy a St. Christopher medal...despite his unceremonious rejection from the snobby patron saint club several years ago....

We were now pretty much in our Arrivederci Roma mode, so we went to a travel agency and bought train tickets to Florence...packing, final dinner, restless night....

What can one say about Rome?
"Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale her infinite variety"
Now that guy had a way with words!
I do not argue with that description, but what is just as true comes from (maybe), that other source of infinite wisdom, Yogi.
"No wonder nobody goes there anymore its too crowded"
You cannot deny the astonishing attractions of Rome, but you must question your own willingness to pay the price necessary to experience them. If you are young, at least in spirit, do not pass them by...if, like the elder Duphers, you resemble the pre-oiled "Tin Woodman", use guides, wheels and chicanery to avoid the tedious aspects of touring in the Eternal City..or eternal becomes the operative word....

I think we will join losarbolitos in the country side.......

But, thank you, Rome...there is no place quite like you....
The Duphers

Am also enjoying the report, keep it coming.

And, yes, I do agree about Moses in Chains, it was most awe inspiring, we could get pretty close to it when we visited, I do remember a box to put lira in to light up the statue (it was awhile ago).

Anyway, thank you from another "fan"

Dear Dupher,

So enjoying your trip report and after taking my 2 teenaged daughters to Rome in June for 8 days must say you and I share many of the same opinions about the crowds and herding and bread charge (for really lousy bread no less!!) etc.

We are living in Europe temporarily, and trying to see as much as we possibly can in our 2-3 years here. I have a work in progress index card checklist of places I must see, and then after I see them I decide:

Returning someday

Been there, done that

I have to say, although my oldest daughter was in love with Rome, for me it's high on the "Been there" list - although I am glad I went and found it fascinating. Just not my cup of tea... If I do take my grandchildren someday, I will squander my children's inheritance for the private tour of the vatican. Otherwise, I'm just not doing it again.

We all absolutely loved the Borghese as well, and even lucked out on a spur of the moment English tour. It was my favorite along with San Clemente which is also away from the maddening crowds. And, the Pantheon was another repeat visit as it was just so "cool" and no lines and free!!! (Didn't the cost of everything there blow you away? In Paris under 18 is free to everything - in Rome pay, pay, pay, pay...)

I thought I was too jaded to be impressed by Trevi but I was overwhelmed by the scope and beauty and returned 2 more times to try and get a better view. I did not throw the coins in the fountain as I had already decided I didn't need to return to Rome again - too many other places on my list!!

Oh, I have not been to Florence and am very curious about your experience. We have been to Venice and Paris and loved those 2 although nothing compares to Paris IMHO which is at the top of my Return Someday Very, Very Soon list...

BTW, I am 47 about the age of the "kids" and I also am a big lover of HDT.... keep it coming!!

The 23rd of Oct. found us off on another long walk, from Via del Gesu to the termini...didn't seem too long when we looked at the map, but it was uphill....got in an "information" line to find out departure stuff...after 20 minutes, one person had been helped...meanwhile Natty went off, found someone who had the scoop, I got out of line and we had a McDonald's breakfast something or other....the Italians were the best at sculpting and painting...but they actually make an already bad fast food meal even worse....what kind of priorities do they have anyway?

Train to Florence was a pretty pleasant ride, the directions to Ira's favorite B&B, not so hot. As usual, we muddled our way around and ended up at the Peterson B&B...fyi, the B&B here stands for Bed and Bed...there was no one there who spoke English to meet us, although they made it clear that they wanted the full rent for both rooms up front....there aren't many bigger fans of Ira on Fodor's than yours truly, but, a Bed and Bed with nothing but an espresso machine, out past the train station, is not exactly on my "raves" list....

It did make for a lot more walking, which, other than the excruciating pain, was good for us...allowing for the consumption of more gelato, about which more later...
Dupher

There may not be a bread charge on the check in US restaurants, but we pay for it anyway - whether we eat it or not. It has to be built into the other prices, as I have yet to find the restaurant that gives away food ...

What's truly a shame is how much bread gets thrown out - it's not transferable to the next customer (not legally, anyway).

I agree that the best bread in Italy is definitely not to be found on that plate in a restaurant!

Looking forward to your notes on Firenze, Dupher et la famiglia Dupher.

dupher, you made me laugh out loud when you wrote,

"It did make for a lot more walking, which, other than the excruciating pain, was good for us".

You are great.

The sign inside really said "Peterson Bed & Bed"..the proprietors were Gino and Chiara...She I only dealt with through e-mails where she was friendly and very helpful. Gino we got to know while there and he was of a similar nature. Located on a very busy corner, they sound proofed the rooms well and they were cleaned daily. No complaints about any of the above; just that it would have been nice to have some cafe americano and a biscuit and be a little closer to the action.

The first day we wended our way to San Giovanni Square where the ubiquitous little cars ran rampant; at least until the polizia came roaring on the scene and literally ran over one guy's wares...Brobdignanian motor bike vs liliputian cars...no contest, the vendor off at a dead run through the crowd...On the advice of a couple eating gelato in the square, went to the top of a department store where there was a terrace on which to have lunch. A little sticker shock..six buck coke lite, eight buck hot chocolate...top of pepper shaker came off when I used it and deposited most of the contents on my plate..not attractive, but the waiter thought it hilarious...

We had been told by a very good source that the best gelato in Florence was not the world famous Vivoli's, but Dei Neri's on the street of the same name, so off we went. Going ballistic over gelato is common place on Fodor's, but, please, place your trust in the Duphers...this place will curl your taste buds, cause you to make faintly obscene sounds and absolutely force you to return on at least a daily basis.....and they are a truly fun bunch to deal with.

Not an auspicious beginning to our Florence report...will try to do better...but I will probably dream of caffe gelato...
Bon Sera,
Dupher

And here I am always missing the bread in Rome as does my Rome born and bred son-in-law. He loves everything about the SF/BayArea except for the bread. It is all a matter of opinion isn't it, lol.

LoveItaly....on bread...

I think when you are born and "bread" somewhere you know where to get the good stuff that you and your son are missing... I know there is good bread in Rome, it's just that in many of the cafes it looks as if they pass around the same basket from table to table all week...just so annoying to have to pay for something no one would actually eat...

I bet you will find some great bread in SF if you ask around.... now can anyone tell me where to get a good bagel or english muffin in Switzerland?

Woke at 4a.m. with visions of gelato dancing in my head...supposedly, the only thing different about that stuff and our ice cream is density...personally, I think it is made from a recipe originated ny Leonardo da Vinci and kept secret for hundreds of years...the da Vinci code indeed!

We set out early (relatively speaking...remember the DW and her need to shampoo her locks each and every day) Natty was scintillating in his Pathfinder mode, taking us on what seemed to be a labyrinthian route to the Duomo, etc. while his begetter traipsed merrily along, oblivious to the route, but ever so confident in his guide...one should, sometimes, welcome role reversal...

We had reservations for the Uffizi in the afternoon, courtesy of Chiara at the Peterson B&B, so, in the interim, set off to the Medici Chapel....An aside...I tend to ridicule folk who go nuts over rock stars, movie stars, etc. "Get a life!" say I, in my best "superior" tone....in the interest of full disclosure, I go nuts over Michelangelo: I will do septuagenerian cartwheels...that'll test your mind's eye...to see one of his sculptures...so, do not miss the Medici Chapel where you can see again what this man could release from a piece of stone...mind boggling and awesome have become trite terms, but, if ever they work, try them here...

Next; tomatoes and cheese and the Uffizi!!
Dupher

I always thought gelato to be quite different from our US ice cream. Gelati seem to have much less (or maybe no) cream, bordering on sorbet. I much prefer them to our rather heavy ice creams.

Linguistic note I came across recently: "ice cream" got shortened by ease of pronunciation from the original "iced cream", which makes more sense.

Since the discussion has mentioned bread, and dupher spoke in the thread title of "contrarian opinions", let me offer one: Margie and I don't like Tuscan bread very much. Although the Tuscans seem very proud of it, we find it too dense. We much prefer French bread, or the bread served in most of the rest of Italy outside of Tuscany. That was one of the reasons we slightly preferred travel in Umbria to travel in Tuscany.

- Larry

To paraphrase somebody.." It took me fifty years to discover I had no talent for writing, then I couldn't give it up because I was too famous"


Don't know whether to go on about the voyage of the Duphers or to disappear quietly...do not want to be tedious....
Will go play g--f and decide when I return...
Dupher

Definitely not tedious! And I, for one, am very much looking forward to following your entourage on to Paris!

Please continue!

dupher...

in my day you would be called a tease...

we are waiting for the next installment!!

g.

"Don't know whether to go on about the voyage of the Duphers or to disappear quietly...do not want to be tedious...."

dupher,

How could you even think such a thing, with all of the rave reviews you have been receiving?! Let me add my own accolades regarding your style of writing and sense of humor.

"Don't know whether to go on about the voyage of the Duphers or to disappear quietly...do not want to be tedious...."

dupher,

How could you even think such a thing, with all of the rave reviews you have been receiving?! Let me add my own accolades regarding your style of writing and sense of humor.

Tedious? Anything but! Please keep it coming!

dupher,

Stop being a tease! I woke up this morning and the first thing I did after brushing my teeth was to check for your next installment. Please continue, I am waiting for Paris.

Dupher!

I'm waiting to relive the tomato and cheese sandwich in the rain - yum!

Oh, Rock Stars don't quit! Rock on.

Such a whining twit am I.." If you guys don't like me, I'm going to my room and pout"...my abject apologies to all of you....

After yet another overpowering encounter with Signore Buonarroti, the Duphers needed sustenance...what better than a tomato and cheese sandwich, sitting under an umbrella, watching the world go by..... it was ,in fact, delicious...

The line for those of us with reservations was relatively short, the tickets 13 euros apiece...then to another line, where we waited about 20 minutes...the Uffizi ia very large and every room deserves a week or so, but once again short shrift is given to masterpieces. What a magnificent collection!! The faces of Botticelli will be with you for the rest of your life...take as long as you can with this place...

Today was Natty and DDIL's anniversary, so we were off to Zsa Zsa's for a celebratory meal....more later (g--f beckons!
Dupher

The dreaded "g" word is interfering again!!!!!

Loving this and impatiently awaiting more. . .

I knew it dupher!!! Off to play a round of golf again. For shame, you have an audience waiting for your next installment.

Hello gruezi, yes we do have wonderful bread here in the SF/Bay Area and it is not that my son-in-law doesn't like it, it is just that he sooooo misses his bread he grew up on in Rome. A dear friend in Italy sent him the receipe but with our flour and water being different it is not possible to make the bread and have it taste the same. But I have teased him and told him if that is his worse problem he is a lucky fellow, lol.
He misses his mother's cooking too, no shock that!

Continue on dupher, I hope you had a good game of golf.

You had best not be taking a long break over Thanksgiving because I am hooked....and please stop with the "old" 73 comments - 73 is today's 53, don't you know?

Dupher - I love your report!! Please keep it coming. We are doing the same trip in reverse beginning on Xmas Day.

Your writing is wonderful. It's always amazing to see the talent on the Fodors Boards.

Hello, Dupher -
Natty here - thought perhaps you might do me a favor and send a quick "Happy Thanksgiving and I Love You" to DDIL and DGKs. As you know, I'm in Iraq (not nearly as nice as Rome or Florence, I must say) and I've been unable to log into my e-mail. Luckily, I was able to find an internet capable computer and remembered Fodor's "A trip report with some contrarian opinions and, I hope, some trouble saving suggestions... " - and so here I am. While I have no intent to take you off-topic, I want to pass that I've just come in from walking through the city of Fallujah and it is truly transformed from my visit last year - lights on, shops and restaurants open, people smiling and waving, children playing in the streets (I didn't notice any g--f courses, however, that might detract one from one's writing). Not sure how things will play out here in the long run, but for now it's heartening to see the progress --maybe someday we'll start a forum thread on historic art in Bagdad.
In the short term, let's see some progress with the Accademia and Michelangelo's David . . . and the best anniversary steak ever served at ZaZas!
Love you,
Natty

should we all be hoping for thunder storms wherever Dupher lives so that we can get him off the golf course and get the rest of this report??

Why does he spell it g--f? I bet his wife thinks of it as a dirty word since his "honeydo" list probably never gets done due to the damn golf. Or, he thinks it is so sacred a word he cannot commit it to print?

Dupher... seriously, this report is way more important than your handicap!!

Natty, can you help us here?

LoveItaly.... I often feel guilty that the biggest thing I miss about home is not my family and friends but the food! I totally know where your son is coming from. Right now I am missing pumpkin pie and sweet potatoes. I am not brave enought to face the Migros baking aisle and make them myself...

happy thanksgiving everyone...

Perhaps he write g--f for the same reasons others write g-d. It's a religious thing.

Natty,

Sorry you can't be with dupher this Thanksgiving. As you can see dupher has captured our hearts. Glad to hear things are somewhat better in Fallujah. My son-in-law might be heading there soon.

Much Aloha

The Vatican Muesum is on my "been there, done that" NEVER AGAIN list.

Yes, the art is OUTSTANDING.

However the church seems more intersted in "how many folks can we cram in here" AKA "how much money can we get"

Other museums do a great job of "crowd" control. WHy can't the Vatican.

Why is it when someone points out on this board that the experience leaves a LOT to be desired, they get flamed? WE are suppose to LIKE being tramped in a museum???? Considering the VOLUME of people and the VOLUME of TOURS the Vatican allows there is NO way to enjoy the art. I did it without a tour..... Got SHOVED and TRAMPED by the "tour groups" with the right of way. Since they can't lecture in the Sistene Chapel, the propped up photos and LECTURED all over everywhere else in front of the art. HORRID EXPERIENCE!!!!

(Intersting to note that several of my "NEVER AGAINS" are run by the Catholic Church.... )


Yes there may be times that are better, but I am not willing to allow the museum to treat me this way again. They can and should improve the mess, but won't as long as they have a license to print money with the current "management"

dupher, sorry to hijack this but . . .

Natty, best wishes to you! Stay safe.

gruezi,

Dupher promised he wouldn't use the "golf" word again since it seems to upset some. Sooooo it's "g--f". Nothing religious...as we know it anyway!

Happy Thanksgiving!

My very best wishes to you Natty, may you stay out of harms way and come home safe and sound.

Gruezi, I totally understand! BTW my son-in-law wants potato salad (which I will prepare for him of course) as he does not like sweet potatoes or yams or pumpkin pie.

Uhm regarding golfers and electrical storms. My clever Stanford graduate husband and his foursome would go out to the golf course even in the few times electrical storms were threatening per the news. One time the "idiots" (I use that term with love) came home and advised that they had been fine as they had stood under a tree on the golf course during an electrical storm. Golfers..you gotta love them, lol.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. I've just discovered the wonderful talents of dupher and this trip report is one more thing to be thankful for this year. What a gift! I'll be watching day by day now. We go to Paris for the first time next spring and I can't wait to hear that part. I'm enjoying all the trials and tribulations (and great advice) for Italy. Not sure if we'll make it there but I'm also a great armchair traveler. Kudos for keeping us on the edge of our seats. And...best wishes to Natty and the rest of the family. Thanks for sharing.

Dear Fodorites,
Your genuine concern over the well being of my son is something I will not soon forget...you are a special group of people, united by a common love for travel. That sense of wonder over "what's out there" is, I believe, closely akin to "who's out there" and what are they like and are they happy and healthy and would I like them.....
Rest easy, knowing that they...We...like you...
Have a happy and contented Thanksgiving..you have helped to ensure that the Duphers will have just that.

Sincerely and with real affection,
The Duphers

I just want to say that I am proud and extremely thankful to be a DGK of Dupher. I'm still working on my g--f game and looking forward to my next visit so I can see how it is really done (I'll bring slacks this time so I'll be allowed in the clubhouse). Is there a sign-up sheet to join the Dupher cyber-following?

Like one looks at a statue by Michelangelo in awe, I look at my Grandfather with awe and amazement, and a yearning to someday be sculpted enough to be half a Dupher.

dupherfan,

It sounds like you are already.

Happy Thanksgiving to all Duphers near and far...

gruezi

Dupher and Family -

Sounds like you had a wonderful trip! I'm waiting for your next installment. Glad to hear you enjoyed the Bistecca Za Za - that is my husband's favourite meal when we are in Florence!

After numerous attempts to recreate that wonderful meal we have admitted defeat and can't wait to head back to Florence for more Za Za!

OK..you folks have tapped my mushy side...now I have to remember that this is a travel site...

When we started on Florence, I mentioned a "very good source" concerning the best gelato, this person, a delightful lady by the name of Kelly, who runs the Soggiorno Battistero B&B. told us that, if we wanted Florentine steak try Zsa Zsa's. So, after the oohs and ahs of the Uffizi, it was off to Zsa Zsa's.

We had a waitress who, when I asked her what her name was, said "Stars", but finally admitted to Miriam...after an initial bit of coolness, she was a joy...Natty and I had been salivating for awhile, thinking of the famous "Bistecca alla Fiornentina", which was sold at Zsa Zsa's by the kilogram...sort of an ungodly price, but it was the "kids'" anniversary...After Miriam convinced us that ordering one and splitting it would be sufficient, we, with some trepidation, did that...Natty and I agree that we may have never eaten a better steak dinner...followed by a wondrous tiramisu...it was, unquestionably, the finest meal of our trip...bear in mind that we are not foodies....

So, a tale of a meal on this Thanksgiving Day...we hope your feast today is its equal in every way and your company as delightful....
Dupher

A very Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved on dupher, and may your son be with you all next Thanksgiving!!

The Florentine steaks. Dupher I have several friends that are residents of Florence and it was pathetic to hear grown men almost cry when the Italian government ordered that the steaks could not be sold for a good period of time due to Foot and Mouth disease, or whatever it was called. They were truly a miserable and sad bunch, lol. I am so glad you ordered the famous steak and enjoyed it!!

Hi again,dupher

still loving this and the contributions from your clan. we have many locals here in Cornwall [from the near-by naval airbase] out in Iraq so understand a little of your worries; heightened here at christmas rather thanksgiving. May Natty and all others serving out there return safe and well.

back to travel - how right you are about the vatican. the bottlenecks and bizarre routing generally through the museums made a joy into a chore. by the sound of it it's got worse since we were there 18 months ago. I too would now pay to have a private tour, or not go at all. [though it's easy to say that once one's been once].

I loved your description of the Bistecca alla florentina. I shared one with my DS [who is what is called a trencherman in the UK] and we struggled to finish it.

looking forward to more,

regards, ann

Dupher, you and your family are a joy. My best wishes for a happy Thanksgiving day to all of you. Hurray for contrarians.

Just a note to dupherfan -

What a wonderful comment both about your grandfather and about you. It is heartwarming to read this trip report not only because I love Italy, but also because of the family love obvious in it. Not everyone has that kind of family relationship and those of us who do need to appreciate it (as you obviously do).

Best wishes to all the duphers wherever they may be and to my fellow Fodorites, the best online companions.

Bookmarking.

I loved this story so much I made myself learn how to "bookmark".

Feel dumb now, so easy.

Dupher, your great.

How does one follow an exquisite meal during which we giggled and goofed around like school kids and even got Miriam the slightly aloof server to join in the merriment?

The answer?...to go see what is, for some of us, the sculpture to which all others are compared....mid morning reservations for the Accademia along with the anticipation of seeing "David"....I had witnessed this creation some 20 odd years ago and had written in a little notebook that I thought it to be "the most visually impressive experience of my life"....I had seen some things in the intervening twenty years and wondered if I would still feel the same...it may be the product of unsophisticated taste and senses dulled by the pursuit of plebeian pleasures, but I still feel the same way. There was actually a physical reaction to seeing it again; a heart pounding, an emotional welling up....for the life of me, I cannot conceive how this piece of pure magnificence came into being...

As you may have guessed, I really like David....

Next: we go to great heights in the pusuit of vocal exellence...hope the turkey was wonderfully good....
Dupher

dupher,

I felt the same way when I first saw 'David'!!! To think it was just a big slab of marble. Add to the fact Michelangelo created this masterpiece with hand tools, JUST AMAZING!!!

Tom

Yes, I felt the same way. Pretty goofy but this is how I expressed it in my trip report:

"His face is beautiful and the expression so like a young man with a task before him that, from an adult perspective is insurmountable, but with the assurance of youth (and the power of God), David knows he can do it! (If you have ever had a teenage son, you’ll understand what I mean. They view themselves as almost immortal and feel they can accomplish anything! David’s face reminded me of my son.) I fell in love."

Not even slightly goofy, LCBoniti..David simply evokes those feelings....
After that "otherworldly" visit, we had a ho-hum lunch and discussed our next adventure...Natty's boss had told him that going to the hills above Florence for the view, but especially to listen to the Gregorian chants at the monastary was a must.

Sensible folk would have taken the bus, or cab. ....not the youngsters, but wiser "somewhat older" ones,...... even if 73 is today's 53.....But, Duphers being Duphers, off we went, across the bridge, looking at the monastary on the hill, which didn't seem far.

Natty and DDIL were, as usual, prancing about in a giddy display of fitness, while DW and I put on our best, "of course, we're fine!" stiff upper lip, sort of thing....we got to the area where all the vendors were, took lots of pictures and then began the trek to the summit...sort of like leaving the base camp for the top of Mt Everest...
We planted the flag after reaching the summit...a bit of hyperbole here, if you hadn't noticed...

Found that we were a bit early, so sat around and walked through a rather dreary cemetery..some are more interesting than others...when the scheduled time for the evening service with Gregorian chant arrived, we were in the front row in a state of eager anticipation...
I think our mind's eye was visualizing the arrival of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir when a half dozen or so monks, or monks in training, straggled in and the service began. There were, in fact, some chanting exchanges in Latin.."Dominus vobiscum"..."Et cum spiritu tuo"....interspersed with some hanky blowing accompaniment by what seemed to be the senior member of the group...it seemed that it might go on for a lengthy period, so we surrepticiously left our front row seats in order to begin wending our way down the mountain...all in all, a good training day..

Wow! "Where have all my buddies gone...."
The 26th was a sad day for our usually merry band...Natty had to leave us to attend to the mundane...earning a living. Our Pathfinder and untiring bearer of excess clothing, cameras, water bottles, etc. was up early to catch a flight from Florence, through Munich, to Dulles Int. I have no notes for that day...we may have spent it sulking over the injustice of it all...on the 27th we went to the Bargello museum...lots of good things, although Donatello's "David", a superb, totally different interpretation, was undergoing restorative work.

We felt it only fair to give Vivoli's its fair shake in the unending quest for "Top Gelato" and made our way there. Scruffy locale, not so nice employees, at least on this day, and, in our collective opinion, not in the same league as Dei Neri's..."Taste is in the buds of the taster"

Just wandered...hard to focus, without our rudder....came across a street artist from Albania, Albert by name who earned a spot among our notables by being absolutely the most non-stop talker any of us had ever encountered...had "the usual" for lunch...not memorable....one last visit to Dei Neri's was required...they did not disappoint...bought train tickets to Venice for the following morning, walked home to "Peterson's Bed and Bed" to pack... a day of adjustment indeed...
Dupher

Hi dupher, still enjoying your report.

I escaped from those vespers too, actually they had turned into a mass which went on very long. We "snuck" out when the congregation had their eyes closed for prayer, then I tripped on the stone steps and made a terrible noise. When we got to the church edifice on top, we saw a man coming after us wielding an umbrella, we thought he was upset for making the clatter during the service so we speeded up. When he caught up to us he was out of breath and held the umbrella over my head and I ducked. Come to find out he was trying his best to return my own umbrella which I had left in the chair.

I know how it is so say goodbye to part of your group of happy travelers, it seems like you are cheating on them for that first day. You can picture them navigating the various flights while you are still in discovery mode.

More please!

Funny story SeaUrchin!
Made me chuckle remembering our sort of embarrassed attempt to escape...trips wouldn't be near as much fun without these little mishaps...
Dupher

Hello dupher, I am impressed. I am a great walker but your trek up to the Piazza Michelangelo..well..good for you and your wife! Amusing stories about sneaking out during the chanting dupher and SeaUrchin.

Dupher,

On the day Natty left we walked and walked and walked looking for the leather wallet he wanted, but didn't buy. Remember...we were at our whits end and then it just appeared! Mama Mia!

Dupherinlaw

Story of my life..not talking to the people with the answers...thank you DDIL...I do remember that search now..as do my feet...
Dupher

Is "contrarian" a word?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contrarian

Thank you dupherfan - I am really surprised - and happy to learn.
And I am really enjoying this thread.

"Up in the mornin', out on the street"..and we are off to Venice. A pretty train ride; it made us wish we had spent some time in the Tuscan countryside....next time...

We had reservations for the Al Palazzetto in Ca D'oro. Easy vaporetto from train..nice Bed and Breakfast, but...

This is my second visit to Venice...I left a scheduled three day visit 20 years ago after one day and...I guess I face ridicule....I would have done it this time, if I had been alone.
The crowds were ridiculous, as were the prices....how about 18 euros for a cafe americano and a croissant on San Marco Square?..about 25 bucks...to sit and be besieged by messy pigeons...every street is lined with cheap....in quality only....stuff and jammed with people.
The boat ride to Murano was ok, Murano itself consisted of many, many virtually identical glass shops.
We did do the Doge's Palace and found it moderately interesting.

I will suffer the vehement disagreement and chalk this up to some genetic defect residing in the Dupher tree...which jumps to non blood relatives. Those of you who wax ecstatic over Venice should be happy knowing that there will be a few less returnees in the future.

We had a flight scheduled on MyAir airlines at 7:20 a.m. from Marco Polo on 31 Oct. This required a get-up around 2:30a.m. to catch the night vaporetto to Piazzele Roma, where we caught a bus to the airport. Amazingly this all went rather smoothly. The only hitch was in my heart when we got out of the transport at the airplane and I looked at the nose and saw "Bombardier 900" imprinted thereon...I had read recently that SAS had grounded their entire fleet of said airplanes because of collapsing landing gears. This made for a bit of a nervous ride to the City of Light...one which I suffered alone, having nobly refrained from informing DW and DDIL
of this info...the landing was positively greased on, leading me to believe that the pilot didn't want to place undue stress on the "undercarriage"...

We were at Orly and the beginning of the last stage of our journey....

My sincere apologies to those of you who love Venice...consider the source of the criticism and you will feel better...
Dupher

Dupher, does it make you feel any better that most of the residents of the Region of Veneto (which is the region which Venice is located in) now avoid Venice unless there is no choice? A friend of mine had to take the train into Venice to see a doctor a couple of weeks ago, she was so annoyed. She went to the doctor and immediatly returned to the train station.

I feel so fortunate that I spent a good week in Venice in the 1970's. Even though there was a lot of tourist a lot of them were daytrippers so the early mornings and evenings were beautiful and truly serene. But the tourist were nothing like the crowds that have accumulated over the years. Venice has become more and more crowded with tourist. Getting away from the San Marco area though does help. And yes, ordering a drink at one of the cafes at the Piazza San Marco is price wise ridiculous. And the pigeons, even the residents absolutley hate them. Nasty birds!

Truth be told, the last time I was in the Region of Veneto I did not go to Venice. I actually "forgot" to and didn't even think about it until a couple of nights before I was due to fly home and some friends of one of my Italian friends and I were having a night cap and they asked me how I had enjoyed Venice this trip. Ooooops, I realized I hadn't gone there.
That still gives me a chuckle.

Dear Dupher,

I too found Venice over-the-top expensive and I have lived in NYC and now Switzerland neither of which are considered bargains... I'm never one to pinch pennies, but we just stopped doing certain things like having a nice sit-down lunch. We had a few ridiculously expensivem but mediocre, dinners and then decided we liked the club sandwich and canal view from our hotel...we splurged on a special hotel there and although it gets great reviews everywhere I just could not see the "big deal" to make it worth what we paid. Room was dark and a bit dreary and no view at all. I later found out we had been upgraded!! I can't imagine what the other room would have been...Best part was the bar/terrace on the canal but certainly not worth what we paid.

We were there in May, and although crowded at times, there were respites and we did enjoy some wonderful walks and also the Peggy Guggenheim Museum and a wonderful tour of Saint Marks that we just happened upon by chance and a trip over to San Maggiore which was really nice... I made my daughter get up and go there for the "Gregorian Chanting" at Sunday mass. Well, we didn't sneak out, but she was rolling her eyes way back in her head at me most of the mass... not as musically impressive as I'd expected. We did see a beautiful gondola "regatta" for a special feast day from the tower there and it was really wonderful.

I will say the weather was beyond perfect for our trip so we had a great time. BUT, I am putting Venice on my "been there, done that list...

Oh, I just returned from a magical Paris weekend with the same daughter. I am so hoping your Paris leg of your trip was great...In spite of the Euro versus the dollar, I found it much cheaper than Rome or Venice and I liked it much better. Plus, my daughter had free admission everywhere with her student ID. Can't wait to hear how you fared.

BTW, you're such a humble and courteous "contrarian" that you hardly qualify for the moniker...

g.

dupher...just chiming in to say how much I am enjoying your trip report

Prelude to Paris: I had made two previous visits to Paris, in the eighties, within six months of each other. Despite the jaw dropping beauty and interest of this city, they were not happy times. Notwithstanding my honest efforts to be a "hands across the sea" kind of guy, I ran into "down the nose" looks and outright rudeness on a regular basis....left early, before I caused an international incident..... I am delighted to say..."This trip was a whole new ballgame"!!

Arrived at Orly at 9:a.m. After a little groping around, took RER to St. Michele/Notre Dame...All three Duphers were pretty excited, although I had my fingers crossed.
Climbed to daylight upon arrival, hauling luggage. Got sorted out as to where Ile St. Louis was and we were off. After our usual "where the heck are we" trick we arrived. All I knew about our landlord was his name.."Giancarlo Buccafusca"...I loved it, but didn't know if we should be prepared for Tony Soprano or what....he had e-mailed us that the original apartment we had agreed upon was undergoing plumbing problems and we would probably be put into a different place. A few alarm bells went off, but we were pretty committed. Within minutes of our arrival, a motor scooter pulled up and a small man in a large helmut got off. Underneath the head gear was a welcoming smile with a warm handshake and an immediate apology for the substitution. In we went to a very nice little apt, where he proceeded to show us about and tell us that, for the inconvenience, he was going to rent us this place for 800 euros...for eight nights...on the Ile St. Louis...with unlimited free calls to the U.S....Giancarlo was our new best friend.

When showing us the washer/dryer set-up, DDIL asked about a lint trap, which, despite his superb command of English, he was unfamiliar with and had no idea if there was one. She opened the dryer door, found it, and pulled it out and informed Giancarlo that that was something he should know about because of the potential for fire. He was mightily impressed and told me that my "daughter" was a clever woman...which observation he repeated a few more times before he was through. Didn't know whether to send for Natty or not.....
This is a charming man and more about him later...

We were in our home in Paris for the next week!!
Dupher

dupher, it is a small world sometimes! My wife and I rented an apartment on Ile St. Louis from the good doctor in 2003. A very nice man indeed. He insisted on giving us a ride to CDG on the morning of our departure, since he didn't have a surgery until 11:30! I won't say anything more about the man, since I'm sure you have more to say yourself...

Oh Dupher I'm so glad Paris is off to an auspicious start!! I owe a trip report of my own, but suffice to say we met many charming and helpful Frenchmen in our 4 days...

So excited for the Paris report!
More please....
You are a wonderful story teller!

wonderful report dupher - I'm really enjoying it! Thanks!

dupher,

You remind me so much of my darling father-in-law. He is so humble, funny, kind, and one of the best story teller I know.

Your trip report is getting me so excited for our upcoming trip to France. He has never been to Normandy and I am glad I finnaly talked him into going with us.

I am looking forward for the rest of your report and will be sad when it ends. How about scheduling another trip with the same gang?

Much Aloha

Dupher, I've been enjoying your report, but I was waiting for the arrival in Paris before saying anything.

Do you think that the Parisians have changed in 20 years or that you have mellowed?

Kerouac,

While you're waiting for Dupher's answer...

Last time I went to Paris I was 23 and knew just one French word "enchante"... I had a great time, but nowhere as good as last week 24 years later... I was coming from NYC last time and not expecting warm and fuzzy but also too naive and young to imagine that the French had something against Americans - I felt nothing but intrigue about the French. I met a lot of young people and they were very nice, but communication was hard as many did not speak English and I spoke no French.

This time I was a little leery about Franco/American relations although I had just seen Sarkozy's impassioned speach. I went with a positive outlook and tried to learn a few more phrases beforehand. I felt so welcomed by everyone from the airport taxi line onward and had lots of help with directions etc. More French spoke English this trip which meant I could communicate better. Maybe it just warmed my heart to know that I was welcome there as an American. I'm more impressed than ever by the Parisien culture as I experienced more of it this trip. What a treat it must be to live amidst such beauty, art, cusine...

g.

speech...sorry

I'm not sure if the French are nicer than they used to be although it is certain that more of them speak English and other languages. But it is a sure thing that Americans are better informed about the rest of the world and are maybe not as arrogant (?) or ignorant (?) as they may have been when facing different cultures 20 or 30 years ago. Definitely a win-win situation, but maybe my admiration goes more to the Parisians, because the number of tourists has doubled and they put up with it. I wouldn't say that it is making them richer, because the ones you encounter in a shop or restaurant are still earning a standard salary but they are probably working harder than when there were fewer tourists. Yes, their bosses that you will never see are probably a lot richer. And all of those people who help you when you are lost in the subway or on the street are probably not working in the tourist industry at all. Parisians are remarkable.

kerouac,
Have thought about your question and I suppose an honest answer would have to be both.
There is, however, no doubt in my mind that there is a significant difference in the overall attitude of the Parisians, at least those that I encountered, now as opposed to 20 years ago.
20 yrs ago I never had a playful waiter, much less one who positively entertained us for an hour or so with a sort of Charlie Chaplin performance while still giving us superb service...calculated? maybe, but enjoyable nonetheless...I was probably a lot meaner looking then and my "Bon Jours" may not have been as heartfelt. The bottom line is: I will go back to Paris and be excited about doing so. I definitely did not feel that way 20 years ago.

Because Notre Dame was practically in our back yard, after getting settled a bit, we ventured out for our first visit to something quintessentially Parisian. Without touching on architectural likes and dislikes, it is safe to say..Wow!
From the outside it is a brooding giant, harboring gargoyles and chimera, with menacing spires and flying buttresses. Inside is a subdued beauty, highlighted by the impressive rose windows. We went in, walked about and then just sat and soaked it all up...our first day in Paris.

Back outside we people watched, noting the almost ritualistic scam efforts half-heartedly done by several bored looking young women. It seems a puzzle; everyone knows what they are doing, they know that everyone knows and yet they go from person to person. Oh well, it wouldn't be Paris.....

We wandered in search of food, went into a place nearby and were greeted by our modern day Charlie Chaplin...a waiter who spoke enough English to be able to tickle our funny bones and who actually raced about his duties in that unmistakenly Chaplinesque style. The sandwiches were good, the deserts wonderful. We watched the folks going by, speculating on whether they were tourists of locals. Rightly or wrongly, we were convinced we could tell the difference.

Found a grocery store and picked up some essentials...coffee!...found our way back to "23 Le Rue Regrattier"...should be a title of an old Charles Boyer movie...

Having been up since 2:30 a.m., we were a bit done in, but it was a contented exhaustion...after all, we were in Paris....
Dupher

Hi duhper,

i know what you mean about Venice but actually staying longer makes it better. last Nov i was there for 5 nights with a choir, and the longer time meant that we could explore the less frequented areas.

I'd get up early and wander round the markets as they were setting up, watching the working boats delivering the day's produce, and then find a tiny backstreet cafe for breakfast.

at easter I'm taking the family for a week ! [late passing exams present for DS who wanted to go last summer but realised that it would be too hot] and hoping to get away from the mading crowd. I'll let you know if I'm successful.

keep the report coming.

regards, ann

Fascinating Fodorites,

My travels have hitherto been limited to those in the USA. 30 years ago, if you had foretold this would be the case, I would not have believed it, or would have counted myself ill-used if I had ended up so.

I do not however currently hold such a self-involved & -pitying point of view; after all, I've had the marvelous good fortune to meet and rub elbows with a grand variety of folks--both citizens and visitors, alike--who remind me how lucky I am to live in a country that generally embraces and celebrates such diversity.

That said, let me still allow as how I continue to yearn for Paris and its environs, and know that I will get there some day. Dupher and company, after all, are proof that travel can be enjoyed at every age! (Meanwhile, thank you for allowing me to enjoy your collective travel experiences in a more vicarious way.)

About this notion of whether the French citizenry has "mellowed": several of you have addressed the possibility and its reasons much more knowledgeably and expertly than I ever could, but two thoughts occurred to me upon reading your comments. The first is that this positive shift might be considered rather a paradox, given the undeniable and widely-held less-than-positive opinion regarding American, world-impacting choices made in the past four years.

The second is one that might have blunted the ill effects of the first. Our world has been rendered a much smaller place in the last 20 years because of technological advances. Consider the electronic community that you fabulous people have created on Fodors because of said technologies. This very conversation has transcended age, geography, socio-economic status, race, color or creed! Perhaps the same technology predisposes us to view one another as neighbors more readily, whether we live on one side or the other of the Atlantic Ocean.

In the end, however, I also must admit that I have known (and admired) dupher for 50 years. His "friendlier France" could have been created by the the simple fact that he was in the company of two beautiful, positive and interesting women who themselves 1) fostered only the best from the Parisian citizenry, and 2) that these two marvelous women had craftily established (albeit in the nicest and most gracious way!) a zero tolerance policy for any duphercrankiness. Just a thought! =)

Hi, Dupher,
Just found your trip report and enjoyed all of it. I too was surprised the first time I went to Rome how little information or tours were available at the Colosseum. The second time I went, I searched this site and found a great guide for my kids (who really are kids).

What website did you find your Parisian rental at? My aunt and her family are looking to go next August. Was that a special price because it originally was not the one you reserved?
Thanks!

onedupherdaughter -

Obviously a good sense of humor runs in the family.

To Dupher, Analogue ad others,

As I am reading this interesting report, would like to express a few thoughts,as a French citizen living in Paris, regarding the considerations on whether the French/Parisians have "mellowed" or not.

It seems to me that there is sometimes a bit too much self-centeredness or ethnocentrism on the part of US visitors to Europe.

In your daily interactions with the locals, good or bad, not everything revolves around the fact that you are a US citizen. People do not react in a given way because they are "pro" or "anti-american". It is actually worse than that : most people, especially in the arch-touristy neighbourhoods where most visitors stay generally can't guess what your nationality is and, frankly, do not have a pressing need to know it. Most French people can't even tell between the various types of spoken English.

In a large, anonymous city such as Paris, basically, and for better or for worse, you'll be treated like the locals.

The way you will be treated will be determined by your own personality, the other person's mood, and very little by the state of US-French relations, or what the person thinks in general of the US, if he/thinks anything at all.

Also think that the level of world information is very different on both sides of the Atlantic : little is generally said about Europe in US media (and in this trickle of information, France is generally portrayed a "bad" country), while Europeans are under a daily deluge of images from the US, however distorting these images may be.

Consequently, most French people will separate you as an individual from their daily diet of sensational stuff from the US : what Bush or Sarkosy said, US foreign policy, drugs, guns, obesity, fundamentalist christianity or the latest shooting in a church ar a school.

Also think the people you are dealing with may be no more "local" than you are (and do not know the city necessarily well), as this category of people, mostly in service positions (museum employees, subway clerks...), can no longer afford to live in Paris proper, especially in the central neighbourhoods where you are staying, and from where middle-class French families have long been driven away by property prices.

In a situation equivalent to yours, say as an European tourist in New York, staying in Times Square, walking down Park Avenue, I suppose I would hardly be in a position to make sweeping remarks about Americans, about how much they have supposedly "warmed" or not about my perceived nationality, etc.

Conversely, do not judge an entire country, whether positively or negatively, from the mood in the sandwhich stand by the Eiffel tower.

Trudaine,

I don't wish to take this thread off topic, but I would to thank your for your comments. You offered much insight, and I for one appreciate that most French people will look at us as individuals and respond accordingly.

Mark

Interesting comments. I have a tiny suspicion that the French are a little bit cautious with Americans, not sure what to expect from us these days. We personally have always been greeted politely and after a little interaction people usually warm up and love to talk. One B&B host told us he looked forward to American guests because they are so warm and friendly. A nice compliment, I thought.

Trudaine, very well said.

Very well put Trudaine. I am always amused when I see comments about French treatment of Americans, mellowing, New Yorker rudeness, etc. In our own experience these negative things have very rarely been experienced and then it was the situation, not the people that influenced the response. On the contrary our experiences have been positive everywhere we have been. Treat people with respect, courtesy, and appropriate friendliness and you will most likely be treated in kind. Add a communicated sincere interest in the place that you are visiting and you have a trip that will be memorable for the right reasons.

Dupherdaughter: I appreciated both the substance and the nuance of your approach to traveling with Dupher (I am the daughter of a dupheresque dad!). Bless you for adding to this riveting thread...

Now if you folks don't spontaneously decide to depart for the Dominican, the Danube or the Dordogne, we will be forced to start a fund, so we can enjoy more Dupheristic Rambles.

Holy Cow! The pedestrian meanderings about a trip to far places have been buried beneath a seminar on international relations....joking, folks....I think Trudaine et al. have performed a valuable service by reminding some of us that, hard as it is to believe, the rest of the population on this beleagured planet ponders even weightier matters then the injured feelings of an American tourist in Paris who has just been ignored by a busy waiter...still....

Dupherdaughter..we will have words later concerning the suggestion that your ever so gentle progenitor could exhibit "duphercrankiness"

They are, however, beautiful women, who made your doddering old man stand very tall and very proud on the streets of Paris....
Later,
Dupher

Dupher, I love you!

Trudaine, I agree completely with your post. This is what I have said and observed first-hand all along. There are people having a "bad day" everywhere. They do not all live in Paris or New York.

Our own attitudes, as the visitor, have more to do with the actions/reactions we receive than anything else, IMO. Just as in our own neighborhoods, some we encounter with respond positively and a few will not. C'est la vie.

Mr. Dupher- you're simply adorable.

Do the world a favour and write a book some day. (Frank McCourt decided to on a whim, and countless readers are so glad he did.)

Bloom

Onedupherdaughter,

I could not have said it better!!! You crack me up!!

I say we spread the aloha all over the world, right cafegoddess? D.C. is the perfect place to start.

Aloha Fodies

what a terrific trip report! I look forward to hearing more...

As a visitor to Paris and France over the last 20 years, my most recent trip was noticably (sp?) different with regard to attitudes toward Americans. (And I'm a pseudo-French speaker).

We were traveling with our 5yo and 7yo daughters and I attribute this extra special kindness to their cuteness! Whatever it was, it made the trip more pleasant and 'smoothed the edges'!

Dupher,

Just discovered your post - and am hooked. Can't wait for the next installment.

Our first full day in Paris...breakfast in apt. then just took to the streets, heading in the general direction of the Eiffel Tower. This was a French national holiday and we were not sure what to expect in terms of "open or not".
As we were walking by the Louvre, noticed that there were no crowds and assumed it was closed, but wondered why there was anybody there if it were. perceptive bunch, we Duphers.....so over we went, discovered it was, in fact, open and decided it was a good time to visit. Discussed the pros and cons of a museum pass and how many days it should cover. We obviously didn't discuss it enough. We bought a four day pass, which started upon our entry into the Louvre. This day, many sights were closed, and on the last day of the pass, the first Sunday of the month, almost everything was free...perceptive bunch, we Duphers....

What can one say about the Louvre?
Overwhelming; of course...huge; beyond belief...greatest museum in the universe; probably.
We went into the Denon wing... "naturellment, mon cher", Mona resides here...
Including the obeisance to the most famous non-smile smile in history, it was one of those, "it is 11:15 and yet another masterpiece" kind of days. I really hate that feeling, yet it happened fairly regularly on our trip. It was something which we handled rather poorly; the proper allocation of our time to avoid being jaded....a trio of non-sophisticates feeling jaded? is that a non sequitur?

I would be interested to know how others deal with this..limited time, unlimited masterpieces..and vistas...and monuments...and cathedrals, etc....our time management was marginal at best.

Moving fairly quickly, we, once again, gave this one wing a fairly cursory visit...about three hours...and staggered out to the Tuileries...walked to Place de la Concorde..considered riding the huge Ferris Wheel, at DDIL's request...lines too long.
Crossed river in search of food.
Walked down Blvd St. Germain and up Rue de Bac, finally decided to eat where we had yesterday.
Different waiter and surrounded by clouds of smoke..very difficult, coming from several years of non-smoking restaurants...food also not as good as the day before.
Got pastries on the way "home" and had coffee and sweets in the cozy confines of our Paris dwelling.

Aside to "5alive".the price was reduced for this apt. for our "inconvenience" It was, I believe, normally 115 euros a night; still, I think, a good value.
And Giancarlo is the landlord with which all future proprietors will be compared...
Dupher

What a joy this is to read. Thank you Dupher!

I would love to know more about the apartment. Are there photos sonewhere on the web?

I just love your reports, Dupher. I eagerly anticipate each installment...waiting on today's post! Please hurry!!

Sorry, Dupher. I have spent the whole day thinking it was the 30th. So you have already posted today. Now I am disappointed. Also embarrassed at my mid-life brain.

Thanks paris1953, when I read your post I rather panicked! Yes today is the 29th not the 30th, lol!

Hello dupher, I can only take so many hours of going through museums, churches, looking at art etc. Then I need a good walk, a nice visit to an outdoor cafe for something to drink while I "people watch" etc.

dupher:
I just discovered this trip report and, like everyone else, I am hooked. I have enjoyed your jaunts through Rome, Florence and Venice and can't wait to hear more about Paris. Thank you for taking the time away from g--f to amuse, entertain and educate all of us.

Discovering the reasons for the French Revolution...
Today we are off to Versailles...went to St. Michelle/Notre Dame station to take RER. No attendant in ticket booth...being severely short changed when it comes to operating the likes of those "machines", we walked through the open gate to find out where we were supposed to be, with every intention of purchasing the ticket elsewhere..perhaps at the Versailles station. This astonishing bit of self delusion hit me about halfway there, "Yes, Monsieur, my intention was to buy the ticket upon arrival" would undoubtedly produce gentle nods of agreement from the Metro Police, or whoever checks on this sort of thing. "No problem, Monsieur..in fact, in return for this amazing example of honest traveling, please accept this ride as our gift"...or not. Walked through the open gate at Versailles feeling like a scofflaw..which, I guess, is what we were...never again...

The lines at Versailles were very, very long...found the Museum Pass line, which was very short. Went inside to discover absolutely suffocating crowds. It was back to the "major tourist attraction shuffle"...for me, it made it impossible to enjoy what should have been an interesting visit. We finally were able to escape to the back of the palace and get a view of the gardens...they are, of course, very impressive...also go on forever,

The major feeling I came away with was that this was the site of opulence reaching unimaginable levels...of course, in the end, they payed a "heady" price....sorry.

Left, with tickets in hand, and got off at the Eiffel Tower stop. Once again huge crowds, so we just gaped and took pictures. I know it probably sounds as if I am bitter that all these people are ruining my vacation...just stating the facts, understanding that I am part of the problem...I think mid-winter visits in the future,

Walked to Place de la Concorde...Ferris wheel line once again too long...walked home..very long day; the senior Duphers were hobbling pretty good. Bought bread, cheese and salami for home consumption. Afterwards, staggered out for some "fat pills".

My take on Versailles is: of course, if you have not seen it, do so. We arrived about noon...poor planning...my guess is that, as early or as late as possible would be the way to go.
Dupher

We had much the same experience at Versailles. We ended having a wonderful afternoon walking around the gardens instead.

Details on the apartment , please!
Is there a website with photos?
Thank you again for this great read.

Hi Ralstonian,
Sorry...forgot
The apartments are under Beau Paris..the particular apt. which we stayed in was the "Regrattier"..It is probably best suited for two or a trio such as ours, where we were fine with a pretty relaxed privacy situation...I will repeat that Giancarlo Buccafusca was a joy to deal with...good luck,
Dupher

dupher, I was under-whelmed by Versailles as well. And I am a history-buff and love all things French. And it wasn't even all that crowded.

The Hall of Mirrors was pretty amazing and the gardens and outside of the palace are beautiful. I'm glad I saw it, but would not go again.

Thanks dupher! The apartment looks great, and what a fantastic price for the location.
I've added the site to my favorites.

We may very well have been at Versailles the same day you were .... or at least within a day or two of your visit ... and I had the same reaction: way too many people stuffed into the palace apartments, especially the particular area where the crowd had to bottleneck from a fully open room into a roped-off area (was it one of the bedrooms?). I do not normally suffer from claustrophobia, but in that instance I understood how it might feel.

Dupher,

Sorry you were turned off by Versailles. Timing is everything there, I think. We got there in early October, on a weekday, just as they opened at 09:00. No lines. No crowds. When we were in the hall of mirrors, there were fewer than 20 people in there with us.

We enjoyed it very much, even though it now is one of those places to which I do not feel I need to return.

Enjoying your report!

Dupher:

We used to plan our visits to DisneyWorld with great detail and precision to maximize every minute.

Our recent visits to Paris and London have been just the opposite...lots of hopping on and off buses and subways, backtracking, and rushing through museums trying to see the "highlights."

If I ever get back to Paris I plan to revisit my favorite destinations,such as Le Musee de L'Armee, and give each the time they need to be enjoyed, but leaving lots of time for idle wandering.

p.s. I'm really enjoying your report.

Today is Musee' d'Dorsay day..say that fast...
Walked over and found pretty long lines, but the one for pass holders wasn't too bad.

Unless you have some unusual dislike for the Impressionists and Rodin, you will thoroughly enjoy this museum. It was, not surprisingly, very crowded, but pretty manageable. There were some " a bit steep for hobblers" stairs, but the glories inside will take your breath away.

Would suggest an audio guide and a relatively long visit. There is the usual problem with just too many riches..how long do you stay transfixed by your favorite (for me, Toulouse-Lautrec), before you go on to your, just barely, second favorite, and third, and so forth.
It is a plce where a relaxed visit is possible, so, go and enjoy.

Out the door, hungry, and had decided to take on the Arc de Triomphe..it was on the museum pass and had a lift...irresistable.

Walked down the street from the d'Orsay, came across a very small restaurant and just popped in.... good idea. We had ham and cheese omelets which were very good indeed and served by a couple of delightful ladies taking turns at deciphering what those not so bright Americans were trying to say.
As always, I didn't note the name...some people are a lot better than others at this trip reporting.

Rejuvenated, we tracked down the nearest metro and went about decoding the route signs towards the arch. It was always a bit flabbergasting when we got it right. Walked under the roundabout, arriving to find, "quelle surpise!", large numbers of people.
Dupher was on top of this, however, noting a doorway where there was virtually no line at all. "Ah hah" says he, that must be for pass holders, so there we go, show our passes and walk right in. Feeling frightfully clever, we start up a very narrow set of stairs which, presumedly, were few in number and led to the lift. 284 steps later we arrived at the top. We thought that there might now be a "Tomb of the Unknown Climbers" to offset the solemnity of the other.

The views were almost worth dying for..
Pictures were taken: of the Eiffel and down the Champs-Elysees..we were glad to be there...in more ways than one.

DDIL took over and informed those in charge that the lift was required to transport her still gasping in-laws to the surface, and there we were.

Thought it de riguer to traipse down the Champs-Elysees..."What? you went to Paris and didn't traipse down...."

It is, to be sure, an amazing thoroughfare, astonishing in size. DW's leg and back were making inroads on even her stoicism, so we got on metro, got off at Chatelet where, in an incredible turn of events, I got "misplaced".
Finally made it back, bought brie, tomatoes and wine..had bread and cheese for dinner.

Fortified, went out to Amorino's..about forty steps from our doorway. The redoubtable Ira had the audacity to suggest that this might be better than Berthillon's...he is seldom wrong and, in our opinion, was not this time.
Waited on by a beautiful and very charming lady, we indulged in a huge cone with about 4 or 5 flavors and reveled in a gelato overdose.
Waddled home and collapsed...
Dupher

Okie dokie..
Even a Dupher eventually gets a clue...when your last entry goes to number 150 on the postings there may be a message...so, I'll bring this fun ride...for me...to a merciful conclusion.

Got a late start, even for us, and went off to see Sainte-Chapelle.
This is another of the sights that deserves study and some time. My guess is that many of the visitors end up, as we did, going to see it and feeling sort of ho-hum about it.
Which speaks to our dullness rather than that of the chapel. It is, in fact, a magnificent display of stained glass with an interesting history and deserving of appreciation. When it comes after the Louvre, Notre Dame, the Musee d'Orsay, etc. it is unfairly handicapped...at least for us.

Even worse, in terms of being given its just due, was the Concerigie. The imprisonment site for some 1280 people who were eventually beheaded, including Marie Antoinette. it has a sort of macabre interest that fails to excite..again, at least the Duphers.

These were places that were on the Museum Pass, which did us no good because we visited on the first Sunday of the month, so it was free; underlining my previous point to plan your Pass with some thought.

We returned to the apt. early, because we planned to have dinner at
"La Taverne du Sergent-Recruteur". This was just around the corner from our place and was the favorite Paris restaurant of DW's late brother...making it a must go.
We were the first arrivals at this some 400 year old place. On the table was a large basket of fresh vegetables for salad and one with several different kinds of salami...there is pate', unlimited bread and wine..red and white...Several main courses to choose from, followed by dessert and a large platter of exellent cheeses...a very large meal indeed.
It was 41 euros apiece and, we felt, well worth it.

We could feel our Paris experience beginning to wind down and, after walking the always interesting streets of Ile St. Louis, we returned to 23, Le Rue Regrattier....
Dupher
(not much more now)

I am enjoying your report a lot. No need to wind down if you have more to say.

We had the opposite reaction to Ste. Chapelle. We visited there before going to Notre Dame (2d visit to each), and I was struck by the heaviness and lack of light at Notre Dame. I, too, though didn't think I knew enough to appreciate everything.

Any plans for the next Dupher family trip?

CW

The order of one's visits can mean everything in a trip.

I have often told people visiting Southeast Asia "visit all the temples and ruins that you want, but go to Cambodia last, or everything will be ruined after Ankor Wat." No one has ever disputed this advice.

kerouac,
Our experience exactly....Dupher

Please finish your report in your wonderful style. Some people probably were out and about this weekend and didn't respond. Don't rush off!

Don't you dare to leave us this way, dupher !! I'm fully enjoying your report and don't want it to finish You're such a lovely man !!

Dear Dupher,
I am still here and AVIDLY reading your posts! Please don't bring it to a conclusion YET.

I loved Ste Chapelle and felt it was a much more personal experience (than Notre Dame)...and that was just on the first floor for the common folks.

Love your writing. Love hearing about your adventures. If this must end, then we must know when your next travels will commence so that we can look forward to new reports.

Dear Dupher,

I have really enjoyed your travel musings and thank you for sharing honestly your impressions of these cities and their "sites"... You are brave to be a contrarian on Fodor's but your willingness to be so, makes you very human and interesting to read.

We saw ND and SC our first day and loved SC but didn't "get" ND. The last day on the way back from Place de Vosges (sp?) we coincidentally walked all around the outside of ND and finally were taken in by it. I think we'd go back inside on our next visit so I agree with Kerouac that timing can be everything.

(BTW, Kerouac there was a wonderful Angor Wat exhibit here in Zurich that just ended... Made me want to head to Cambodia.)

Back to a previous query you made about avoiding being overwhelmed in the presence of continuous "greatness"... I try to stick to just one major museum or archeology site per day and then intersperse that with dining, walking, people watching, perhaps looking at a church or visiting a park or fountain. And, while at something as wonderful and overwhelming as the Louvre or D'Orsay I think the audio guide or a live guide can give you a better flavor without causing your eyes to glaze over. We sprung for a private Louvre tour and did the audio at D'Orsay since we knew more about that art. Stop and take a break after an hour or two for coffee or a snack and when refreshed spend another hour. Beyond three hours I don't care how wonderful it is - I need time to integrate. Also, I find I do better at the smaller venues such as the Rodin or the Peggy Guggenheim which aren't as crowded and just being there is wonderful even if you are tired of seeing art and just want to sit and relax.

Sometimes, the group needs to split up to accommodate all interests and activity levels. When we were in Rome, on the 5th afternoon, I headed off to a Chagall exhibit and left my teenagers in the hotel with a DVD and the air conditioning. We were all happy with the decision. They just needed a break and I love Chagall and knew I'd regret missing the retrospective. Another time, I took a nap in the AC while they shopped (something I just hate but they could do forever)...

Well, Dupher family where do you think you are going next? Inquiring minds want to know

This is a great trip report - witty, entertaiing, informative and fun. I've been checking in every day since you started and I don't want it to end. Thanks for introducing us to your wonderful family and letting us vicariously travel along with you.

I think Dupher is going to moved into the "hall of fame travel reporters". Very much appreciate your take on things, honest and refreshing. Feel free to keep posting, always a pleasure to come back to this thread and keep reading. I'm glad you passed on the info on the appartment, it's one of my favorite areas and the price is very reasonable.

bookmarking-looks like a really good one!

Did dupher take a day off?

Your report is such fun. I started reading it a couple weeks ago and just now have had time to come back to it.

I'll probably be shot at sunrise, but I was really underwhelmed by St. Chappelle. I can appreciate the time to put all that glass together, but that's it. It's a whole lot of stained glass.

Elegantly written. Thank you for taking this time.

Have the best of holidays and New Year.

Ummm....er....got pictures you'd like to share?

If you visit Paris, must you shop?
I suppose...off to Printemps and Galeries Lafayette...probably not my thing, but...
They are rather spectacular stores...witn even more spectacular prices...the once almighty greenback is reeling, in case you haven't noticed.

So, after wandering around for awhile and getting a couple of "I bought these in Paris" kind of tid-bits, it was out the door. Got crepes right outside, which were pretty tasty, and headed off in the direction of Place de la Concorde. Pretty good walk and, upon arrival, discovered that the Ferris wheel lines were manageable..so, up we went. DDIL was eager to soar over Paris, while Dupher could only think of Icarus...
The views were. of course, spectacular...a bird's eye view of Paris is a wonderful thing...

It was not a long ride..eight euros apiece and another ten for the picture they take as you exit...skip the picture and, perhaps, take the ride if the lines are short.

Got another crepes upon debarking..not a good one. We had intended to wander up the Champs-Elysees and check out the Monoprix, but ran out of steam.

Long walk home, bought a 1/2 liter of Amorino's to go...not enough...

Sort of a nothing kind of day...after such a day, you feel a bit disappointed in yourself..."here I am, in Paris, and what memorable thing did I do or see today?"...as most of you clever folk know, planning is everything...and, acceptance that, even in Paris, humdrum happens...
Later,
Dupher

Suzie
Have no problem sharing pictures...except that I am a really serious dingbat when it comes to computers...if you can supply instructions understandable by an inert object, fire away...
Dupher

I'll take a humdrum day in Paris over almost any day at home.

Don't be disappointed in yourself, Dupher. Those 'sort of nothing days' are so relaxing, especially after the hustle and bustle itinerary you've had. Pinch yourself and enjoy the moment- you're in Paris

Gone are the days where I plan trips to the museums, go to this and that must-see, must-do, etc.

I find more contentment now in admiring "outdoor museums", in leisurely walks, in seeing where the next corner will take me...

Bloom

Love your musings, Dupher. Humdrum is like a cushion between those other frenetic days.

It hardly seems like I can add anything to this wonderful trip report, but I did want to say I agree about the difficulty of enjoying Rome and Florence with the crowds that are there now.

As for Michelangelo, I too am awed by his work, and always make it a point when I make a quick trip to Florence to see the Medici Tombs in addition to David. And too many people miss the Bargello (maybe that's a good thing, as Martha Stewart would say!)

A final hint for art lovers: when you are gazing in awe at David, do not forget to look down to eye level at the slaves emerging from stone! To me, they really embody what old M.B. was up to.

And when jostling to see the Mona Lisa, if it is still hanging as it was when I was last there, look next to it on the wall and see the Virgin and St. Anne -- a stunning work of art.

Finally, dupher, as a 72 year old, I cannot appreciate your narrative too much!! I will be in the same boat next May when we go back to Italy.

Mille Grazie, from an old Italophile,

Charnee

Still enjoying your report dupher. I can't wait for more.

Dupher,

I believe our next adventure is Ireland, yes?

I'm sorry to see our Rome through Paris trip end - boohoo! OX H.

The penultimate "full day" dawns...
I had good memories of the Luxembourg Gardens from my solo visit 20+ years ago...recalling the small children pushing the sailboats out in the water with the sticks....it was an Impressionist painting in my head, much more attractive to recall than thoughts of expensive remote controlled toys...I guess that might be an old fuddie-duddie thing....

So, I gathered those "striking ladies" and off we went. Walked on Blvd St. Michel and came across a store which actually had some reasonablly priced clothes for teen age grandkids in it. DW took advantage...then we walked over to the Gardens...

Amazingly enough, those little children had frozen in time for those twenty years, still pushing their boats and following them around the pond...I was suddenly a couple of decades younger and beset with some unexplained sniffles...aargh!

It was a walking kind of day, just taking in the sights and sounds of this very old city; a city oblivious to the rate of conversion between the euro and the dollar, unconcerned about whether its inhabitants are "friendlier" or not...a somewhat jaded old lady, but still seductive, still way more sophisticated and enticing than practically any other great city in the world....we were lucky to be with her.

This "look in every window, check out every passer-by" meander finally found us back on Ile St. Louis, a place even more ancient than its surroundings.

All this heavy pondering called for gelato...copious amounts...purchased at the glorious Amorino's....one whole liter...17 euros..but who's counting....
Dupher

So enjoying your account of your time in Paris - I truly believe we must have been steps apart in our Paris adventures ... so thank you for reviving my own recent memories of Luxembourg Gardens.

Although I had never had the good fortune to have visited the gardens before, I had, of course, seen paintings and photographs of the children and their sailboats.

And, just like you, I was a bit doubtful that in 2007 such onderfully simple pleasures would remain a part of childhood.

What a wonderful surprise to find the charming gardens and their occupants enjoying a lovely fall day. Sailboats, sticks, and all!

Dear DDIL,
A rendezvous with the Leprechauns...their shenanigans will be no match for such a "clever woman"...

Dear Dupher,
I have spent the morning mentally in Luxembourg Gardens...thank you! I love the pictures your words paint. And I agree with you completely on Paris...there is no other city that compares.

I will look forward to your Irish adventure...my husband wants to go. I, however, am reluctant as I am an accomplished back seat driver, and I am afraid I will ruin the trip by overzealously "assisting" with his driving. So I am eager to hear if you and yours will be touring by car...

Dupher,

I beg you! Put me to the test! Oh, and I'll drive

I think the children of 2007 are just as thrilled to keep sailing those boats because it is so wonderful not to worry about changing batteries or a malfunction of the remote control. I am sure that they are quite amazed that a toy can move without the help of electricity at all.

Hi, charnee

<<And when jostling to see the Mona Lisa, if it is still hanging as it was when I was last there, look next to it on the wall and see the Virgin and St. Anne -- a stunning work of art.>>

did you catch the Leonardo exhibition that was in Florence when we were there last November ['06]?

there was a really terrific section about the background to the mona Lisa - how the background one side of the smiling one doesn't match up with the background the other side; also how if you look at the legs of the virgin and St. anne, you can't tell which leg belongs to which. It's true! really weird.

I found myself looking at lots of other paintings as well, looking for the same sort of thing. for example there's a Manet of a girl looking into the mirror behind a bar where the angles are all wrong, but that one has been well known for a long time - I'd never seen these "problems" with Leonardo's works pointed out before.

i know what you mean about the crowds - even in November, Florence was heaving. we were there over 20 years ago in July and i don't remember it being like that at all. and i have pictures of the grand canal from the same trip where there are hardly any boats at all in the middle of the day! what must these places have been like 100 years ago?

regards, ann

Dear Dupher,

I think you will love Ireland and I think we Fodorites will enjoy that report as well... I wish you some sunshine there and if you drive, keep the distances really, really short...My very easy-going husband packed us onto a plane home 2 days early after 12 straight days of rain and lots of driving between tall hedges on narrow roads. Funny though, if you ask him now, several years later, he says he really loved Ireland

I think the problem was, he is a g-lfer but didn't want to play in the rain. I think that will not pose a problem for the great dupher...

gruezi

Dupher...have you taken a few days off to shop or for golf? I miss your reports.

Hi Folks,
Will probably wrap this up today sometime...suspect procrastination due to "not wanting to finish syndrome"...
Dupher

bookmarking

The 7th of November...our final day in Paris....a quick jaunt for Dupher to store on St. Michel where DW had purchased shirts for grandkids...one was a girl's garment that had been inadvertantly put with the men's stuff....got there early...it was not open...wandered about and came across a hotel by the name Hotel Cujas....remembered that I had stayed here over twenty years before on my solo trip...the price then was 16 dollars a night...it looked considerably more spiffy now....I did not.
Exchanged shirt, raced back....

We had decided to try the Picasso Museum on our last day....

Walked over, bought tickets and took in lots of Picasso's works...not sure of what we saw...Picasso may be beyond my limited ability to understand and appreciate certain art forms. When he is closest to more traditional art, is when he has the most appeal to me. Listened to a video about cubism, Braques and Picasso in the Museum and it helped my uderstanding considerably.

Headed toward Notre Dame to search for the "third Gargoyle"....on the way we stopped in a Starbucks and had one of the best and most reasonable sandwichs of the trip.

We spent quite some time looking for the full size gargoyles that DDIL had bought small versions of. ( she really likes those handsome devils)..one was never found, despite binoculars and a thorough search...headed home, bought brie and bresd...Giancarlo was due at 7:30 to get the rent....

I think my reluctance to ride off into the sunset will necessitate a couple of more entries...one about Giancarlo Buccafusca and going to the airport and a final one to say Arrivederci and Au Revoir...I know. really pressing my luck....
Good Night,
Dupher

Ah dupher, you are such a charming gentleman and your report is as charming as you are. I can only imagine how much your family loves you. I have so enjoyed your trip report.

dupher,

I have enjoyed your report so much. And I also wonder if we may have passed each other on the streets of Paris. I was there from November 1st-9th.

It sounds like you had a great time, like myself, in Paris.

Tom

www.pbase.com/trsw

What a great report! I just found it today...

I've been missing Europe lately, so this hit the spot.

I am still enjoying your report, dupher. Do you have a summary of your contrarian opinions and trouble saving suggestions? I didn't see anything too contrary in your report! Thanks for sharing with us.

Our last night in Paris...should have been spent walking the avenues in the "City of Light"...one of the many mistakes we made was not doing that....when you are exhausted at day's end, the allure of such a stroll is overtaken by gelato in the warm confines of your home in Paris.

On this night, our ultra interesting landlord, Giancarlo, was coming to collect his due. We had not realized that he was an M.D. until a couple of days after our arrival, we noticed his mailbox at the apt. which informed us of such and that his specialties were geriatrics and orthopedics....two areas of expertise that DW and I could have made good use of during this sojourn...
He arrived promptly, sat down and, at our urging, gave us a thumbnail sketch of of his life...my goodness!
Born in Italy, raised in Switzerland, where he attended medical school, did an internship in N.Y., lived in Japan, Germany, Spain? and of course, Paris. Speaks, I believe seven languages and is a "raconteur par exellence".
All of this with no hint of superiority or arrogance..just a naturally humble magnetism that made us sorry we had not thought to invite him to dinner while we there.
If you get a chance, rent an apartment from this delightful man...and take him to dinner!

We had purchased tickets on the RER this day and packed this night...we were ready to go early the next day.
DDIL's flight left several hours before ours, but not wanting to send her off by herself, we elected to go with her and spend the day at Charles de Gaulle...not a recommended choice for your last day in Paris. We had breakfast at the airport...a little trouble with the menu and communicating with the waitress resulted in cereal, croissants, fruit and orange juice costing a blazing 60 bucks...ouch

We got DDIL on her way and tried to figure a way to enjoy several hours at a very crowded airport....despite some occasional highlights from people watching, we were not very successful.
When it was finally getting close to departure, I noticed a message on the electronic board at our gate that was asking several passengers to contact the boarding agent. The names had not changed or diminished in number when we boarded...alarm bells for old pilots who are white knuckled passengers...

After we had settled in, the Capt. informed us that they were going to take a head count because they could not account for all ticketed passengers...a crescendo of bells!
After awhile we were informed that they were going to completely unload the baggage compartments to take off baggage whose owners were nowhere to be found....I really, really hoped that they did this right...no one else seemed concerned; which was ok because I had more than enough for the entire airplane...a very long ride home for a very nervous Dupher....

The next one will really be the "final" final...
Dupher

sigh...all good things must come to an end...

Dupher -- I too have been continuing to follow along. Thanks again for the tip on the apartment. I was asking because I know my aunt is going. There will be 4 or 5 of them.

I would be worried about the luggage removal too! Otherwise, that could be Lockerbie all over again.

For those of you who have stuck through thick and thin, our journey together is over.

For me it has been a trip filled with serendipity; what started out as an "I owe them a report in return for all their help" posting. turned into, for me, a delightful exchange of ideas along with a giggle or two.

I know my original heading promised more than I gave. After becoming better acquainted with many of you, I felt bad about bad-mouthing someone's favorite spot....I cannot change my mind, as yet, about Venice, the crowds at the Vatican Museum and other popular sites, but, because of your articulate defence of them, I will keep an open mind.

My major suggestions mirror those of others. Before you go, get it very clear in your mind what form your adventure is going to have: do you want every waking moment spent "doing or seeing' something of universal imortance? If so, plan to a faretheewell. If not, leave time for relaxing sit and watch days, or half days. Find out about all the passes available, both travel and Museum and make the maximum use of them; it will save you considerable money and reduce your time waiting in lines. As so many others have said, you really don't need all those clothes.

Choose traveling companions carefully. I pray for you all, the great good fortune to be with people such as DW, Natty and DDIL They made me laugh when I wanted to grump, they soothed when old bones protested. They kept us "found", made the coffee and even carried the stuff that we shouldn't have brought along on that day's venture.
Their strength and loving spirit made all the difference.

Finally, to all the lovely Fodorites who tracked this wildly uneven narrative...
Your willingness to encourage an old Dupher with unfailingly kind words and your erudite and articulate additions to our tale meant the world to me. I wish there were a way to gather you all together in one room so that I could
see what I know would be such "Beautiful People"

Without ever having met a one of you in person, I feel comfortable saying goodbye as "your old friend"
Dupher

Lovely Dupher - just lovely.

Thankyou.

Cyn

You are top of my list of Fodorites I would like to meet. What a joy you are. Thank you Dupher.

Thank you Dupher. It was a refreshing treat to read your report. I am sorry it had to end.

CW

I know what you mean, dupher. That is exactly how I have come to feel about those who post on this board. But it takes a special person like you and your family to bring out the best in all of us.

Please keep us in mind for a trip report of your future adventures. This was pure joy, start to finish.

I agree! Can't you book another trip real soon, dupher?

Dupher,

I just had to make this reply the 250th! My goodness what a fantastic trip we had. I'm already for Ireland.

dupher:
Thank you so very much for letting all of us share in your adventure and get to know you and your family a little better. I have thoroughly enjoyed your trip report and can't wait for your next trip. I agree, you really should write a book.

BOOKMARKING

Salute Dupher!

With no trip in the planning, your ride through Italy and Paris, with your family, has given me a vicarious pleasure.

I envy the people who have had the good fortune to be called your friends.

To Dupher and your lovely family,
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. I have been out of town and unable to read your posts until this evening. Suffering from Dupher-withdrawal!!

After reading your last post, I am as sad as I am when sitting at CDG waiting for the plane home. Thank you for wonderful, wonderful posts.

Best holiday wishes to you and your family! I will watch for your Ireland trip report!!!

Thank you again dupher for such a wonderful trip report. Like so many other I have enjoyed the entire thread.

I wish you and your loved ones another trip as soon as possible. It sounds like it will be Ireland.

Happy Holidays to all of the dupher clan. And may your Natty be home with you just as soon as possible. Best wishes from my home to yours!!

dupher and the dupher gang,

Thank you for a very entertaining and heartfelt trip report. I feel like you are an old friend.

If the dupher gang are ever in Hawaii, please let me know and hopefully I could treat you guys to some good food. Natty, please stay safe and thank you.

Aloha to your family dupher.

Maria

P.S. Start planning that trip to Ireland!

Awesome report. I have been reading it since you started and now want to thank you for the fun read. Funny, my mom didn't like the Vatican museum, but I get in there and it's as if the people vanish and all I see is the art, the beauty, the human enterprise reaching toward something greater. Same with Venice! We all get something different out of places, I suppose, although I admit be young and spry probably makes it easier. The wine helps, too.

Thanks again. I really enjoyed this.

You guys make it hard to ride off into the sunset...I would be an ingrate indeed if I did not acknowledge your generous words...thank you...
Maria. I lived in Kaneohe forty plus years ago and Natty and DDIL lived in Kailua for 8 years or so, leaving a couple of years ago. It is a magical place and now I know that it still has a real live Goddess....
Mele Kalikimaka me ka Hau'oli Makahiki Hou

Mahalo nui loa
Dupher

dupher--

I just read the whole thread of your odyssey in one sitting when I couldn't sleep. It was a joy.
Your charm made the sites and sounds of Italy new to me, and I was just there summer of 2006.

Thanks for the memories, and happy holidays.

dupher---

What a great trip report... I read through it some time ago but wanted to check in here to thank you for taking the time to post and also to let you know how appreciated your report is to those lurking here on Fodor's as well.

This page has almost been viewed 11,000 times. Pretty neat!

Have a nice holiday!

Let me see...minus my 10,500, that leaves.....

I just have to add my 2cents worth - I think this was one of the most pleasurable trip reports I've ever read. And I'm very sorry that you've finished it. Definitely looking forward to the next trip!
best,
Paule

Hi Dupher,
catching up on all reports I bookmarked after a very busy season that has kept me from enjoying such reads. Only about 1/4 thru so far but wanted to let you know I've been smiling the whole time not to mention the chuckles. Great report that I will finish reading hopefully soon.

dupher,

Just wanted to chime in and let you know how inspiring your narrative has been! You have a way with words that many published authors should aspire to. Please know that several of your posts have given a new perspective to a college student in the midst of planning a trip including Rome and Paris, and your insight is much appreciated!

Cheers

I've been galivanting for a couple of days, so didn't see the last couple of posts...receiving favorable words from you, Laartista, puffs me up a bit...your trip reports are in a class of their own....sincere thanks to you and copper675..
Dupher

I have really enjoyed your trip report although you have made me feel very guilty. Our family of five visited Paris in July. I intended to post something but never got around to it!We all became ill soon after arriving home and the next thing we knew school started and the whirlwind began. My New Years resolution is to finally get the photos in order. Reading the posts here has sort of helped me to process our trip, we had many of the same experiences. We went to Paris, Rome and Cologne, and Paris was everybody's favorite by far.

bookmarking...

I just stumbled upon this and had to post.

Dupher, can I pretty please adopt you to be my very young and witty grandfather?

Your writing style is fantastic, as is your spirit.

Keep traveling!

This report is indeed one for the ages................ I, too, just "discovered" it. A great read. Now, I must get back to work. But thanks for the lengthy diversion.

My Goodness..
Just dropped by for a lurking visit with my favorite folks and. lo and behold, an old acquaintance appears!
What memories that brought back....thanks for the good words....
May all Fodorites have wondrous travels, with fair companions and everlasting memories....
All the best,
Dupher

thank you, mr. dupher. as i was searching for info on doges palace, i stumbled on your wonderful thread and got stuck. i finished reading most of it in one sitting. appreciate your insights on the trip and otherwise. God bless you.

A lovely trip report. I think that Venice may have been a different experience for you if you had more time to explore the quieter areas. Aren't those restaurants on St Mark's are ridiculous!!

I can easily believe you were 'misplaced' in Chatelet - isn't it amazing!!

St Chapelle is interesting - my visit was to a concert one evening in June 2006 and I thought it was the most divine place. My HB visited on a sunny June afternoon in 2008 and though - 'ho hum'.

Before you go next time, ask some questions here about transport. It is inexpensive in Italy (except for Venice!!) and France and will save your poor feet, knees and hips!!

I loved your report - one complaint though, it's fabulous writers like you that make me hesitate to post my own report!!

I'm glad I came across this lovely report and that it has risen to the top again! thanks, Cathie

Thank you Cathie and hiewa,
Just now saw your posts and appreciate the kind words and good wishes...don't ever hesitate to do a trip report...the folks who traipse through "Fodorville" are receptive, encouraging and will make you feel positively literate, despite any flaws that crop up...I love em' all and writing that report and the exchanges that occured was one of the highlights of this old duffer's recent years...
Bon Voyage!!
Dupher

I just discovered this and read the whole thing. I couldn't stop! Thank you dupher. You are a wonderful writer.

Dupher,

I just now found and got to read this and have spent the last 2 hours both laughing out and sniffling reading your take on the trip and the moving way your family responded.

Having gone to Venice for the first time this summer, I can understand your thoughts on it. I too wasn't crazy about it except that I finally found the spot of an old picture of my grandmother, who I never really got to know, from around 1918 and was able to reproduce it. It gave me a sense of being a little closer to her. I had been looking at that pic for the last 12 years and never knew where it was taken. The absolute highlight of the trip.

And as I prepare to go to Paris to celebrate my 40th, I loved reading about your time there. And am more excited than ever, just wish it wasn't a month and a half away.

Thank you for taking the time to post such a beautiful report. What a wonderful way to spend a Sunday morning with a cup of coffee.

Best wishes to you and your family. I hope your son is back home from Iraq.

Kelly