A chacun son goût

OK, I've learned something about word order (already knew about the "to" vs. "have" thing, but usually type without accents on an American keyboard). Thank you. Now that I've learned my new thing for the day, I will turn off my mind till tomorrow.

<It is most certainly not "Each has his taste," which is the translation of that other formulation.>

This would be useful on the "A Modest Proposal" thread over in the Lounge.

French son just said "a chacun son gout" sounds really weird to him - having grown up in France he says he never heard that term - he says maybe in Quebec they use that

he says they never never say "a chacun son gout"

on a tous des gouts differents - he says you would say this but a chacun son gout he says is simply ridiculous - he says simply not something anyone would say

???

They are possibly a bit different in Orléans. I certainly know kerouac's formulation, and I hear French more often in Brittany than in other parts of France (although I visit the Loire valley often enough, on average one year in three).

When in doubt, I find it best to use a different expression, and I like "on ne discute ni des goûts, ni des couleurs" ("one does not argue about taste or colour"). To my mind, it conveys the idea better.

Hi K,

Well live and learn.

So Strauss got it wrong when he wrote "Chacun à son gout" in Die Fledermaus?

"he says you would say this but a chacun son gout he says is simply ridiculous - he says simply not something anyone would say"

Well, Voltaire wrote it ...........

I have never heard it any way other than `a chacun son goût. And I can recall Monsieur Vincent from 5th Grade correcting another student who said chacun à son goût.

I find it best to use a different expression, and I like "on ne discute ni des goûts, ni des couleurs" ("one does not argue about taste or colour").>

this he says is used but repeats never heard either version of Kerouac's versions. Tres mysteriuse - he did get honors in French BAC

perhaps it is an archaic expression found mainly in old French literature?

Or maybe in the Loiret, where along with Tourraine they say they speak 'pure French' it is not used?

Palenque wrote: "this he says is used ..."

Did you doubt me?

This is EXACTLY why all of my tattoos are just pretty pictures- not phrases in languages I don't understand.

Your pretty pictures might well correspond with hieroglyphs and constitute an obscene message.

True. I got a fleur de lis tat in a shop in the 8th Arr. and while it isn't obscene I understand not everyone is fond of the political symbolism. I didn't really care about old Clovis. I just think its pretty.

Thanks for the chuckle, amwosu.
For what it's worth, this old French major (at a US college) was taught "a chacun son gout", just as kerouac noted. Maybe it's just an Anglo attempt to translate the untranslatable. Oftentimes adages don't translate well between languages, and another adage altogether better captures the meaning. Thank you Padraig and Palenque, "on ne discute ni des gouts, ni des couleurs" is a new one for moi. Always nice to learn something new. Merci, EJ (Please allow for the missing accents. I just can't find an easy way to type them on my keyboard. Any good suggestions out there?)

But it's just about an exact equivalent of "to each his own." It's not an issue of adages not translating between languages in this case.

Literal translation, of course it works, stcirq. But if what Palenque's son says is true, then it's not used in conversation to convey "to each his own".

I think Palenque's son is just incorrect in this instance. I hear the phrase all the time in France, and it definitely means to each his (own) taste.

Good to know. BTW, have you read "Foreign Tongue" by Vanina Morsot? It's the story of a translator, set in Paris. Lots of French/English word play peppered throughout. I really enjoyed it. EJ

I've been clueless all these years it seems. I always thought it was "Chacun a (accent grave) son gout" IE Each to his own taste.

I even used it the other day with -- as I imagined -- withering scorn, on a wordreference.com forum, in an Eng-Fr translation debate.

Live and learn.

Yes, I've read Foreign Tongue. Very interesting.

As for the other formulation, generally the French just say "des goûts et des couleurs..." and stop there, because everybody knows the full expression (which is too long!).

Just because your son has never heard the expression does not mean it does not exist. My "French son" does not know some expressions I use and I am not yet "archaic" !

I do not know the French equivalent of Strunk and White's The Elements of Style but I know that their work was not based on tattoos.

Chacun à son goût would mean the same thing in its written form but could not be distinguished from chacun a son goût--which does not mean the same thing--in speech.

StCirq, lucky you, I recollect Sr. Mary Joel rapping someone's knuckles with her wooden ruler over this. (Childhood wounds still healing...)

BC

Bookchick, I don't remember the Thibault family using that expression. (If they had, I might have learned it in its proper order.)

In my French class today I learned about 15 ways to say, "That's too expensive." Based on how frugal the people are in SW France, I would guess there are many more expressions to convey this sentiment.

My favorite from this morning, with apologies for missing accents, for the fact that I can't read my own writing and for providing a probably too literal translation:

"Ca coute la peau des fesses."

That costs as much as the skin on butt cheeks.

ca me ne derange pas.

I think Palenque's son is just incorrect in this instance. I hear the phrase all the time in France, and it definitely means to each his (own) taste.>

yes but apparently younger folk may not ever have heard it - he grew up in France, went to Lycee and even yes got honors on the French BAC - he may be incorrect that it is not used but he is surely right in that he never heard it and to him it sounds ridiculous. Obviously it is used but i suspect not by younger folk.

Is your son still fairly young? The expression implies that we should be tolerant of others' tastes, and such tolerance seems to me to be less common among the young.

he's 26 and very tolerant - just said that is a phrase he has never heard and which sounded ridiculous to him - nothing to do with tolerance, etc.

All I meant is that it might not have been in use among his peers. I did not mean to suggest anything about him.

exactly - i just thought it weird when after Kerouac's post i read it to him - thinking he would concur and was flummoxed at his response - obviously an age thing or maybe Orleans is in a language warp? He claims that 'pure French' is that spoken in the Loire Valley - Tourraine - and i've heard that too - so maybe it is too pure? Anyway i do not know but i know Kerouac knows what he talking about and you too - well i actually don't know linguistically but from your posts, etc.

The Loire is widely acknowledged as the place where the "purest" French is spoken (whatever that means), but it's certainly not in a language "warp." And even if he has never heard of the expression, it makes no sense to say it sounds ridiculous, because the syntax is perfectly clear, as is the concept.

Wow, my colloquialisms are obsolete in both English and French. I'm starting to feel rather archaic myself. Too depressing to contemplate, I think I'll go take my nap now.

I've definitely heard the expression "à chacun son goût" used in France (and not only by the older generation). I'm 38 by the way.

I suspect it's simply regional. In the UK we have a huge number of regional words and expressions, some of which eventually extended nationwide, others which never did.

I find it odd that P's son would describe a phrase he'd not heard as sounding ridiculous to him rather than simply unfamiliar. Shrug.

"Ca coute la peau des fesses."

That costs as much as the skin on butt cheeks.

rather, you'll be flayed to the flesh, or "it costs an arm and a leg."

By the way, I think many of you would love this food blogger's list (and explanations) of edible idioms - that is to say quirky French idioms with a food theme.

http://chocolateandzucchini.com/archives/cat_french_idioms.php

! asked friends in the Vienne and Provence.
Both said a chacun son gout and one added chacun a son propre gout

I think Palenque's son might have read it off Robbie Williams' chest.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/robbie-williams-with-abba.jpg

Can Robbie get a re-do?

I can't tell if there is an accent or a hair on the A.

Personally I say "à chacun ses goûts" plural because "tous les goûts sont dans la nature". When I read Kerouac's comment I thought my way was something regional but I also found it in wikipedia "chacun ses goûts / à chacun ses goûts / à chacun son goût [all 3 are used] "to each his (their) own taste(s)".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_words_and_phrases_used_by_English_speakers

Coco cherie j'arrive a MyHomeInDijon ce Novembre 31em - attention! 6am quai no B, au Gare de Dijon. Rapelle?

Oh jeez, Palenque really needs some French lessons from Coco.

Ou mon fils, qui habite, pour le moment, chez moi mais maintenant avec son gaffe serieuse de francais propre, je ne connait pas. Bien sur j'ai appris tout mes francais de Coco - Professuer Coco, on dit.

Mais ce n'est pas une gaffe serieuse, Palenque. C'est surtout son experience. Tous les fils font des gaffes de temps en temps, exactement comme leurs peres!
And besides, we're all the richer for his contribution to this post, n'est-ce pas? (Sorry, but my French can only take me so far.) EJ

C'est mignon, Palenque. Ton effort rend nul les petits gaffes.

As a Quebecer, I must say that I am only familiar with the 'chacun a son gout" way of putting it. Then again, I've been told that our French more resembles older french than modern french.

I guess Prince Orlofsky wasn't French.

For what it's worth, and disregarding accent marks, "chacun a son gout" gets 1.69 million Google hits, while "a chacun son gout" gets only 322,000.

To avoid this potential pitfall, we should perhaps all say "de gustibus non est disputandum."

Thanks for the help with 'propre' I can never remember which is clean and which is correct!

Have some madeira, m'dear. You really have nothing to fear.
I'm not trying to tempt you, that wouldn't be right,
You shouldn't drink spirits at this time of night.
Have some madeira, m'dear. It's really much nicer than beer.
I don't care for sherry, one cannot drink stout,
And port is a wine I can well do without...
It's simply a case of chacun a son gout
Have some madeira, m'dear.

http://www.limeliters.net/have_some_madeira_lyrics.html

OMG, my late husband would sing that to me!!

Thanks for the numerous responses folks;
...asked the son again: "Je suis quasi-certain de n'avoir jamais entendu cette expression alors que je vivais en France. Inculte..?!! moi?...peut-etre, mais jamais j'ai entendu cela!"

Personally I say "à chacun ses goûts" plural because "tous les goûts sont dans la nature". When I read Kerouac's comment I thought my way was something regional but ...

I think I've never heard "chacun son goût". In my area (Marne and Ardennes départements) it's "à chacun ses goûts".

TDudette: It's the word for both. Ever seen Monsieur Propre in a French supermarket?

Nikki, "Voix et Images" wasn't the only thing taught. If it had been, life would have been a bit more stilted, but in some ways it would have been soooo much easier. Watching classmates get raps on the knuckles and worse was a really motivating experience, but one I wouldn't care to repeat. Don't get me started on <<Autour d'un mot>>.

BC

How about this?

http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/go%C3%BBt/locution

"Avoir un goût, avoir une saveur désagréable."

Un Fodorite a un goût? Chuckle!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chacun%20a%20son%20gout

The accent à is important (drop the accent and see above ), and I guess the word order is irrelevant?

Check this also:
http://www.aria-database.com/translations/fledermaus.txt

Personally I say "à chacun ses goûts" plural because "tous les goûts sont dans la nature". When I read Kerouac's comment I thought my way was something regional but ...

I think I've never heard "chacun son goût". In my area (Marne and Ardennes départements) it's "à chacun ses goûts".>

my son concurs - in fact before you posted this he said the same thing - that though he had never heard Kerouac's phrase he said it should be a chacun ses gouts - just like you say.

I suspect what this all boils down to is like quoting Shakespeare in English - some archaic language phrase that is also used in contemporary discourse but would not be used otherwise, being archaic English - like 'Wherefore are thou Juliet' for example.

So, did anyone check out the link I posted? I thought some of you would enjoy it a lot so surprised to see no comments?!

Very nice website Kavey, mais moi je m'occupe de mes oignons!

<je m'occupe de mes oignons!>

a chacun ses gouts!

Pal arrête d'en faire tout un flan!

Neat website, Kavey. I like "Long comme un jour sans pain"- so applicably French.

I mean "Pal, arrête d'en faire tout un flan!" D'ailleurs j'ai du pain sur la planche, à plus tard!

Coco, est-ce que tu racontes des salades?

Loin de moi l'idée de rouler quelqu'un dans la farine! Avec ce topic intéressant on n'est pas sorti de l'auberge, à moins que ça ne retombe comme un soufflé!

> Raconter des salades

I hear often my colleague (Parisien-French - Scottish) say that. Des Salaldes !

I wish I could remember some of the expressions in it, even though some are not exactly in everyday usage, they are still used... but I just never remember them when in France.
(I do speak fairly fluent French but... not enough)

Speaking of gaffes, I reread my post above only to find a few (more) mistakes in my French grammar.

Kavey, I've been following the C&Z idiom list too. She used to post a new one every few days, but I think she must be running out of material. Thanks for mentioning it again. EJ

Don't forget that even the French make mistakes in French.

That's sweet of you to say, kerouac. EJ

BTW, my favorite food idiom has to be: "la vie est dure sans confiture". It appeals to me on so many levels. Not the least of which is my ability to remember it!

My favourite expression is the Latin version,"De gustibus non est disputandum ". It means “there is no disputing about tastes”.

My favourite expression is the Latin version,"De gustibus non est disputandum ". It means “there is no disputing about tastes”.

And now we're back to square one : A chacun ses goûts..........