montrealvic

we have either 8 or 9 days in france. should we split our time up in these two regions or just focus on one.

schnauzer

If this is your first time to France and you have not seen much of the country beforehand then I would suggest splitting the time in two. If you have seen these areas before maybe you would like to slow travel a bit and take your time getting to know one particular area in more detail.

Both are gorgeous areas, you can't go wrong with either of them.

Schnauzer

sweetannie

I would choose one or the other. If it were me, I'd choose Provence for the first trip, and follow up with the Dordogne when you can get away again. And, then, your 3rd trip, you can decide which one you want to go back to! annie

Nikki

Either way sounds good. Just depends on whether you want to travel more and see the contrast between the two areas or whether you want to visit one area in depth. Life should be full of such pleasant decisions.

montrealvic

guys i am having a really tough time with this one. i definetly want to go to dordogne I guess wondering if it would be worth it to go spend 3 days in provence. my question is are the small villages similar in both regions.

dkAz

I just went through this dilemma myself! I only have 4 nights and not 8 (well, I have a total of 11, but there is no way I’m skipping Paris)

I ended up choosing the Dordogne, just because of the variety of things to do. But it was a really tough decision.

I'm trying to plan my itinerary now, and I wish I had at least a couple of more nights. I will have to eliminate a lot of good "stuff" for lack of time.

You just have to choose if you want to rush around and sample different things, or relax and see more of what the area has to offer. Remember, travel days take up time and energy. Think of how your whole trip fits together.

If I had 8 nights, I would concentrate on one area. Maybe stay in two different locations (Provence – think hill towns/beach or Dordogne – caves/charming towns that are 2 hrs apart and take a long to drive in between).


I would still have a hard time choosing which.

ira

Hi M,

We spent 10 days in the Dordogne, Tarn, Lot region.

Get a copy of the 1984 update of "Three Rivers of France"

>i definetly want to go to dordogne I guess wondering if it would be worth it to go spend 3 days in provence.

I wouldn't. You will lose one day just driving from Sarlat-la-Canéda to Aix en Provence.

You might find my trip report helpful:
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34676645

)

StuDudley

Most first timers want to see as much as possible. If you plan your itinerary carefully and consider that almost all shops & some sites are closed for lunch, shops are close on Sunday, & Monday mornings - then I would vote for both areas. Provence is very easy to get to, so you won't loose much time getting there from Paris or Marseille. Dordogne is a little more difficult. I would fly into Marseille, & out of Toulouse or Bordeaux (or vice/versa).

Do you have my 27 page Provence/Cote d'Azur itinerary & my 20 Page Dordogne itinerary?? If not, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll send you them.

Stu Dudley

mda97

I was in the same situation when I was planning our trip to France. After our visit to Paris we had 9 days/8 nights left to go to another region. I spent 4 nights in Dordogne, 1 night in Carcassonne (en route), and 3 nights in Provence. If I was planning that first trip all over again, I would do it exactly the same. If I were returning and had to make a choice, I would choose Dordogne over Provence. My personal preference. I think 4 days in an area gives you a good feel for it, and gives you an idea if you would like to return for more!

We flew into Paris and out of Marseille. This would save you a lot of travel time.

StCirq

No, villages in the Dordogne are totally different from those in Provence. Each area has its own unique geography, light, culture, food, architecture, etc.

Both are beautiful. I prefer the Dordogne.

montrealvic

Thanks guys I am leaning towards doing both as well. We have a total of 9 nights. I was thinking 5 days in the dordgone and 4 days in provence. In provence we will see the luberon villages gordes and rouissalin in one day. the next day we will see isle la surge. that leaves me with a choice of either seeing avignon or arles. which one do you prefer.(sorry about the spelling)

okay1943

What are you interested in? Will you have a car? How many in your group? ages? The first thing I would do is buy the 2008 copy of France by Rick Steves. We have been to Europe at least 8 times, the first when our children were 7 and 9 years old, and didn't use his guides the first time. What a mistake!! He says 2 nights and 2 days in Dordogne, be sure to make reservation to see caves and stay in Sarlat. We haven't been to Dordogne. Spent a week in Provence and didn't do it all. Here are some suggestions. He says a full day of sightseeing in Arles, a half day for Avignon, and a day or 2 for the villages and sights in the countryside. He's right and maybe more time. We stayed in Arles, relatively small, easy walking, good restaurants, enough to be busy and interesting, at the Hotel Calendal www.lecalendal.com. It's about 100 feet from the Roman arena right in the center of the old town. Make a reservation for people and your car.
Avignon is bigger, more shops,more tourists, more to do. We like the less crowded places. Follow Rick Steves' walks in Arles and Avignon Stay at Vaison la Romaine on your drive from Dordogne to Provence or vice versa. Stay at Chateau de Taulignan www.taulignan.comm. Built in 15th century, not stuffy or grand, but wonderful with a huge pool. This is a family's home as well as a bed and breakfast. Hard to find, but ask for directions. People in the south of France are very friendly. If you have a day, drive his Cotes du Rhone Scenic Loop. We did. Breathtaking views, tiny hillside villages, wineries with free tasting. Skip Isle-sur-la-Sorge unless you really want to be by the river. Be Lance Armstrong, only drive to the top of Mont Ventoux if the weather's clear. Stay in or near Rousillon. Visit Gordes and other towns. Stop at farmers markets & buy slices of sausages, olives, bread, cheese, wine, pastries, a knife and corkscrew, paper towel or napkins. Find a beautiful view, or a shady spot, remember the friendly people you bought it from, and enjoy some of the best that France has to offer.

StuDudley

Why don't you tell us what days of the week you'll be in France. There are markets on varioous days, some days most shops will be closed, etc.

For example, you don't want to visit Avignon, Arles, Aix, & Perigueux on a Sunday or Monday. You don't want to visit St Remy on a Monday. You do want to visit the l'Isle sur la Sorgue market on a Sunday - ditto the market in St Cyprien (Dordogne) on a Sunday. Sundays are good days to also visit Gordes & Roussillon, and I prefer Sarlat on a Sunday because there are fewer umbrellas out in from of the stores - obscuring the lovely architecture.

I don't think I received an e-mail from you today requesting my itineraries. Six other people e-mailed me requesting my various itineraries - but I don't think any were you. There are lots of specifics in them - including markets, restaurants, scenic drives, Provence fabric, etc.

Stu Dudley

StCirq

"He says two days, two nights in Dordogne."

<<sigh. bangs head on desk>>

StuDudley

>>Rick Steves. .....He says 2 nights and 2 days in Dordogne,<<

Maybe that's why I don't take Rick Steves advice - only 2 days in the Dordogne ??? .

>>He says a full day of sightseeing in Arles, a half day for Avignon, and a day or 2 for the villages and sights in the countryside.<<

Again - another reason to ignore Rick Steves advice about Provence & the Dordogne......

Perhaps this is why we see some posts on this forum from people who are planning to see both Provence & the Dordogne in 5 days.

Stu Dudley

montrealvic

Thanks everyone for all your help. I have bought the Rick Steeves book. I also have frommers as well. Would you guys suggest i leave out isle la surge. Essentially I will have only full days in Provence. Basing ourselves in either Arles or Avignon. I definetly want to take the drive up to Gordes and Rousillan. Also do I need to see both arles and avignon. If you had to choose only one which one would it be. As for our days we will be arriving in Paris on April 29 tuesday in the morning from dallas. I am not sure if we should do the dordogne first or provence first. We have 9 nights in total. Thinking 5 days dordogne 1 travel day between dordogne and provence, and 3 days in provence. I am not sure with only 3 days in provence what would you focus on the most. Thanks for all your help,

montrealvic

oh yes we will have a car and 2 young children. 11 mos old baby and 4 year old.

StuDudley

I'll work on an itinerary for you tomorrow.

I have about 7 feet of shelf space to store all my France travel books. Another 4 feet just for maps of France. The only books I ever really use are Michelin Green Guides for the specific region (Provence, & Dordogne in this case), and the Cadogan Guides (again - South of France, Dordogne & Lot). I always take the Green Guide to France with me and leave the Cadogan Guide at home after I've copied any pages I need. IMO, I would throw out the Rick Steves guide - perhaps after you have read it for it's entertainment value. I like Rick Steves - but 2 days in the Dordogne & 2 1/2 days in Provence - come on!!!

My wife & I have spent over 16 weeks vacationing in Provence, and another 16 weeks on the Riveria. When in Provence, my wife never misses visiting the market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue at least once per trip (2 visits last year). We have over 60 Provence tablecloths at home. Many she purchased at the market in addition to Provence soap (heavy to get home), and enamelware she obtained at the Brocante market there.

Normally I would suggest that you go directly to Provence from CDG on the TGV, but since you're arriving on a Tuesday and only have 9 nights, that would make you miss the Sunday market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue. Therefore, perhaps hit the Dordogne first.

You really don't need to take 1 overnight to get from the Dordogne to Provence. It's about a 5 1/2 to 6 hr drive. Is that OK with a 11 month old & 4 YO.

Do you mind a few hotel changes to avoid some driving? I was thinking 2 hotels in the Dordogne & 1 in Provence.

Does the food/antiques/Provence fabric/crafts morning market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue interest you? If not, I would change my mind & suggest Provence first because it will save some travel time.

Get back to me. I also noticed you still have not requested my 2 itineraries. I have several itineraries for various regions in France & 1 for Italy. I have sent more than 1,000 of them to people on Fodors & aol. They are free for the asking & I don't bombard you with SPAM either.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

Ok – here’s a recommendation.

I don’t think the market in l’Isle sur la Sorgue will work. It either leaves you with too little time in the Dordogne, or too little time in Provence.

I’m starting the itinerary with Provence because it is very quick & convenient to get there from CDG – and difficult to get to the Dordogne from CDG. On returning, it’s easy to get to Paris from either Provence or the Dordogne. You could actually go directly from Provence to CDG on the morning of your departure for your flight time – but you would have to get up very early in the morning and with 2 kids – perhaps impossible.

Itinerary
Tues – arrive at CDG and take the 3 hr TGV to the Avignon TGV station. Allow min 2 ½ - 3 hrs between flight arrival & TGV departure. It’s probably too late to get cheap 25E PREM tickets. It’s a 3 ¼ relaxing train trip to Avignon.
Departures at:
8:21
11:42
1:54.
I would not stay overnight in Avignon. There is too much ugly sprawl around Avignon & your daily departures & returns from there & driving through that ugly sprawl might spoil your image of the perfect Provence. I would stay in either St Remy or Arles. My choice would be St Remy.
I’ll assume you get to the Avignon TGV station at 5PM, pick up the car, & get to St Remy by 6:30 at the latest.
Visit St Remy that first day. Shops in France stay open later in the day than they do in the US (except for mall stores).

Wed – It’s market day in St Remy. Visit the market in the am
After the market, head to Arles, have lunch, and visit Arles in the afternoon.
After Arles, visit Les Baux in the late afternoon to avoid the crowds.

Thurs – head over to the Luberon and do the drive through the Luberon (Gordes, Roussillon, Bonnieux) that’s described in the itinerary I sent you. Also visit Senanque Abbey

Friday – head to the Pont du Gard & visit the Pont & Uzes. Remember, shops close for lunch and Uzes has some of my wife’s favorites. If you can get to Uzes by 10 - visit it first & the Pont second.
You might have time left in the day. If so, as you are returning to from the Pont area, stop in Tarascon and visit the chateau.

If the Pont & Uzes don’t interest you, I would instead drive through the Dentelles (Vaison/Cote du Rhone wine area). See my itinerary for details.

Some morning or late afternoon if you have time, take the drive around the Alpillies - going through Mausanne & Eygaliers. It’s very close to St Remy.

I strongly urge you to NOT just city-hop. What keeps us and a many other visitors returning to Provence year-after-year is the pretty countryside & small villages. If you just visit Arles, Avignon, Aix, Uzes, Nimes (which you won’t have time to do anyway), you won’t see the part of Provence that we love the most. Arles & Uzes are small and won’t consume as much time as Avignon, Nimes, or Aix. I would not try to visit Avignon on this trip – even though it’s my favorite of the cities I mentioned. The Provence itinerary I suggested gives you a taste of several different things – cities, Roman Ruins, perched small villages, countryside, forts, market, & Abbey.

Saturday – leave Provence. You have left a lot of Provence behind. Plan your return trip. Try to leave by 8am. Take the A9 east to Montpellier, and past Montpellier, take the A61 towards Toulouse.
About 3 hrs after leaving St Remy, stop in Carcassonne to have lunch, relax, and visit the largest medieval fortress in France (may be largest in Europe also). It’s a little touristy, but still interesting to visit. They only way you can get to the best part of the fortress is to take a tour. The tour closes for lunch, so that’s why I suggested that you leave St Remy early so you can get to Carcassonne before the last tour of the morning departs.
After the tour, rest, and lunch in Carcassonne get back on the A61 to Toulouse then north on the A62 towards Cahors.
At exit #57 just past Cahors, get off the freeway and find your way to St Cirq Lapopie. Stay there overnight. It’s a cute town perched high above the Lot River. It’s about a 3 hr drive from Carcassonne to St Cirq, so if you leave at 1 you should arrive at St Cirq at 4pm. About 2 weeks before your trip, make reservations for a tour of Peche Merle caves. These are the best caves in the region that have prehistoric drawings, cave-man footprints, and stalactites & mites. There is a 1 hr tour. Google “Peche Merle” to get their web site. You may have time for a late tour on Sat, or an early one on Sunday. Try for Saturday.

Sunday – visit Peche Merle, Rocamadour, and the interesting wet caves & underground lake at the Gouffre de Padirac. The Gouffre might be your 4 year old’s favorite thing on this trip. The Gouffre closes for lunch.
After the Gouffre, head north for a short distance on one of the smaller roads till you get to the Dordogne river. If you visited Peche Merle on Sat & not today, take a leisurely drive west along the Dordogne River. If you did visit Peche Merle today, you may not be able to linger. It’s about 1 ½ hrs from the Gouffre to Sarlat, - so if you finish the Gouffre later than 4, you should not linger. For lingering, stop in Loubressac, definitely Carennac (our favorite), and Martel (just a tad north of the river).
About 15 mins after you pass through Souillac, you’ll be in one of the prettiest runs of the Dordogne River. Look for the view of Chateau Montfort (you can’t miss it).
Stay overnight in Sarlat.

Monday – if you stay overnight in Sarlat, you really don’t need to allocate any time to visit it. You’ll see plenty in the morning as you have a coffee & croissant at one of the cafes, or dinner in town. Sarlat is at its best in the early morning & evening before the vendors drag out then put away the umbrellas that hide the architecture.
Visit Castelnaud Chateau, les Milendes Chateau to coincide with the falconry exhibit (this may be your 4 YOs second favorite thing), then Beynac, and Roque Gageac.

Tuesday – visit the prehistoric cave at either Font de Gaume or Lascaux (not both – too time consuming for your short trip). Reserve in advance.
Read over my itinerary & also the Michelin Green Guide (I hoped you tossed the Rick Steves book that said the Dordogne was a 2 day visit). Select some other things to do today that seem interesting. A drive on the east side of the Vezere would fit well with Lascaux/Font de Gaume. Visit St Leon sur Vezere, view Losse Chateau from below, & St Amand de Coly is worth a visit (just east of Montignac).

Have an early dinner 1 night at a restaurant in Domme and explore Domme before dinner. The views are fantastic.

Wednesday – I’m not sure if this is departure day from France or tomorrow is. Let’s hope tomorrow is.
Spend a little more time near Sarlat & visit anything around there that you didn’t catch the previous days (there’s lots…despite what Rick Steves says). Then head northeast and visit Collonges la Rouge (read about it in the Michelin green Guide). If you have time, also visit nearby Turenne.
Then head to Brive la Gaillard for your train back to Paris for departure home the next day. Trains depart at:
1:45
2:45
For the 4 hr trip to Paris

You’ve left a lot of the Dordogne behind.

Thursday – homeward bound

Stu Dudley

cobbie

bookmarking