I doubt that you need to buy the rail pass to go from Munich to Füssen.

Not sure why you're buying all thee passes and things in advance. Why not wait until you wherever and see how the weather is and what you fell like doing each day.

We get air, hotels and car (if road trip) and wing it from there. What is it's pouring rain the day you are scehduled for Fussen?

Also I despise HoHos - much better to just walk and see what YOU want that sit in a bus looking at outside of buildings.

Seems pricey to me.

No need for those pricey passes and private transfers, and yes, what if the weather's inclement? Seems like a lot of money wasted on what could be a nice trip otherwise.

You are not using your rail pass efficiently. Unless there are physical issues, a cab or public transportation from airport should be enough, you don't need Privet transfer that just sounds like throwing money away, unless you want to through money away, then I'll hold the trash bag Have fun with whatever you do.

Is this a trip planned by AAA? The hotels and (IMO, pricey and unecessary) private transfers have me curious.

Good guess, Jinky.

I'm asking if it's an AAA planned itinerary because ages ago, I went to them for planning a trip and it was ridiculous what they were charging. Plus the hotels were all 2 and 3 star - modern and charmless (they love K+K), they insisted on private transfers and wanted to lock down all of the rail passes, etc.

We ended up doing it ourselves and saved about $3600 for a three week trip (!!!) Seriously. I think you are paying at least 5K too much. Especially given the hotels they have you booked in.

Please reconsider this and let the wonderful people here help you plan your trip. Choose hotels and help you get your transportation in order.

Can you tell us a bit about yourself and your travel partner? Ages, if this is your first trip to Europe, ho fit you are, etc?

By the way, it's way overpriced and I agree with the others about the rail and transfers.

In early 30's it's through travel agent. Not aaa

It's a really dumb trip and way too expensive.

And the word is ITINERARY, by the way.

Nix the travel agent! They are ripping you off.

If you want a travel agent to plan our trip I'd choose one that know the areas you want to visit along with your travel style. This just seems like someone is trying to make a large commission without gaining alot of insight into your needs.

Like Jinky said, let the people who post here help you. There are posters here who have traveled the world extensively and know much, much more that a travel agent.

You will have a much better trip if you let us all pitch in and help. You will be able to do more with less money. All of those private transfers and meet and greets and a few other things are not necessary. That agent is driving your cost way too high.

Is this your first trip abroad? If so, I can understand being a bit nervous planning it on your own and wanting a "package". But seriously, you are getting ripped off.

"You will have a much better trip if you let us all pitch in and help. You will be able to do more with less money. All of those private transfers and meet and greets and a few other things are not necessary. That agent is driving your cost way too high." WiredPuppy

Travel agents always recommend the highest commission (to them) places to stay, and most have never been there. Most of our fun is in the planing, travel is work, memories last a life time.

Why Munich? This whirlwind misses Paris and Rome for Munich and Amsterdam? And you're going to a wine town in Germany when France and Italy are within a few hundred miles?

Here are the big expenses that are a complete waste:

(1) Your London Tour. First, London could use an extra night - it's the largest city in Europe by FAR and far more interesting than Amsterdam or Munich. You can do the tour a la carte, skip the stupid changing of the Guards ceremony, and get 1/2 off your Tower entry with the 2for1 offers from the Days Out Guide (www.daysoutguide.co.uk) if you get a PAPER travelcard - look on this board for the how-to.

A seven-day paper travelcard will be slightly more than the Oyster card included in your trip (which will likely be inadequate - 20 quid for two people for four days won't hack it) and will pay for itself with the 2for1 discounts on the Tower (which is about $33 per person admission), Cabinet War Rooms, Shakespeare's Globe Exhibition, St. Paul's (currently included on the 2for1 offers), various walking tours, and various museums like the Courtauld Gallery that aren't free admission (MOST major London museums have free admission). You also want to go INTO the Abbey. Your transfer from Heathrow should be 35 GBP on Just Airports so if your agent's pricing is higher, you're getting screwed.

The London Eye is one of the great capitalist ventures in recent history. A fully flexible fast-track ticket is nearly $60 per person for 30 minutes on a ferris wheel and that's with advance boarding purchased on the web. A general fast-track ticket for priority boarding on a specific day and time is about $42 per person. Of course, who knows what the weather will be on any given day in London so the money could be a complete washout.

(2) Madrid City and Royal Palace Tour. The Palace doesn't need a tour guide, just go in and if you need it get the audio. Otherwise, wander around and read the placards or your trusty Fodor's guidebook. Madrid as a city isn't that interesting - it's pleasant to wander through especially near the Palace and the Opera areas, it's busy and full of nightlife, its main sites are the Palace and the major art museums. You need to check on rail pricing and Vueling flights from Madrid to BCN. Toledo can be done on your own and is worth the visit.

(3) Your transfer from BCN to Barcelona if you take a flight from Madrid should be around 25-30E total - that's what our taxi cost us with two large bags and two small kids - otherwise you're getting screwed. In all likelihood, that's what your cost will be from the rail station and that's definitely high. Your city tour will be a waste because there's a lot to see in Barcelona over a sizable area, with crap traffic, and who knows where they're going to drag you. Better to do it completely on your own and prioritize what you want to see and use the Metro to get just about everywhere but Park Guell (a short cab from Passeig de Gracia near Casa Mila would work best). The hotel location is good, but I'd be concerned that it'll be louder than a rock concert because it seems to be right on La Rambla. You could probably get an apartment for less, which will have more room and a fridge. We used barcelonastuff.com and the apartment we rented was two blocks from La Rambla on a private alley with no noise. Only five minutes from both Passeig de Gracia and Placa Catalunya.

(4) Hop on hop off buses are always pricey and usually a waste. If you can read a train or bus map and use the transport yourself, then use the regular city buses. Is your itinerary 5 nights in Munich PLUS a night in Fussen and two in Rudesheim? If so, that seems kind of ridiculous - more time in Munich than in London or Barcelona. If it's five nights in Germany, that's also daft because neither Fussen nor Rudesheim is particularly convenient to Munich and you'll be moving around a lot. Did you have a personal or specific interest in those towns or did the travel agent pull the information from her ear? And again, with five nights in one place, an apartment is an option and likely less expensive than a hotel.

Just some notions.

Thank you for all those who have given me advice and not bashed , I apologize for coming across as clueless but only because its my first EVER euro trip. I forgot to mention that we would like to do Oktoberfest in Munich, reason that we plan on doing Munich, should I lower to 4 days anyway. The main thing is wed like to do London, some of Spain, and obviously Munich. Like said have 3 weeks. If i stick to those and take some stuff out it shoudl lower our price right? Thanks for all help

I agree that this is an expensive way to do this trip. Some cost-cutting measures:

1. You are in your early 30s, so no need for private transfers to your hotels. Most European cities have great public transportation. If you choose hotels close to transportation, you can easily take the Metro, etc. to your hotel for a fraction of the cost. I would only really recommend private transfer to people who are travelling with a lot of luggage, are older or have some other reason that it would be hard to handle luggage on the train, or just have extra money lying around that they want to spend.

2. Train travel - Looks like the railpass is definitely not a good choice. First class is definitely not needed.

For example, Munich airport to Fuessen: You can use the Bavaria ticket, which is a daypass valid on all regional trains and S-Bahn service. I think it is 24 euro for 2 people - this will get you from Munich airport to the Munich Hauptbahnhof and then the train from Munich to Fuessen. You won't find a better deal than that.

Munich to Rudesheim - Looks like you can do that for as low as 29 euro each if you buy your tickets ahead of time and get the savings fare.

You can read about the Lander Tickets here:

http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/prices/germany/regional-offers-overview.shtml

And research German train routings and costs here. Tickets are only available for purchase 90 days out, but you can check schedules and costs before then since costs and routings don't change much:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml

3. Tours: Your itinerary looks pretty heavy on tours. Tours can be good - we usually take some on every trip we take - but we also spend a fair amount of time wandering around on our own or taking docent-led tours at specific attractions. We also seek out non-standard tours because they are more interesting - bike tours, walking tours, food tours, etc. Standard tours, like I suspect the Madrid City and Palace Tour is, are very basic and often filled with people who are either elderly or just afraid to explore a city on their own - not interested in reading a map or figuring out how to use the Metro. You often find much more interesting guides and fellow travellers on bike tours and that sort of thing. Plus, it is generally CHEAPER

"The main thing is wed like to do London, some of Spain, and obviously Munich. Like said have 3 weeks. If i stick to those and take some stuff out it shoudl lower our price right?"

London, a couple of places in Spain, and Munich would make a beautiful 3-week trip. All doable on your own and easily done much cheaper than the original plan.

RE: Barcelona,

We were there for 3 nights in 2011 and went back again this year for 5 nights both part of 5 week driving tours of Spain and Portugal.

We stayed at the Hotel Lleo just of Las Ramblas, There are airport buses that are very frequent and go to Plaza Catalunya, for a return ticket it was 10 Euro's

Worth getting a HO HO pass, you get loads of information however DON’T go to Plaza Cataluynia to join.. The line ups are horrendous to say the least, even in October !! Don’t go to the second stop either what we did is take a 5 -6 minute walk to the ‘last stop’ and joined the bus which always was usually only half full or less.. We estimated that people would be waiting over an hour perhaps longer to get the bus!

Re: Montserrat ~ it was pretty easy, purchasing our ticket at the automated machine at the subway and changing trains at Plaza de Espanya.. We purchased a pass that included the funicula de Montserat up to the top. Some had suggested taking the cable car.. What we discovered is that by using the train we are first on’ and those using the cable car didn’t have a seat for the train back to Barcelona!
In Barcelona be pronto getting onto the train as not much in the way of seating and many people were left standing.

Because of all the coach loads coming in for a few hours and leaving they spent all of their valuable time in a line to see the 'Our Lady of Montserrat Statue' and nothing else!!
We on the other hand listened to the choir, then got a funnicular to the top of the mountain, did one of the marked walks and went back at 4:45 We walked straight in and apart from one person at the statue, we were literally the only ones there until a nun arrived.. We then had a easy stroll over the road and to the train.

Sagrada Familia ~ You can get tickets beforehand at any Servi Caixa machine just using your bank card.. They are similar to credit unions and we used them a lot to avoid wait times..

Should add, the Ho Ho is a great orientation, saves a lot of wasted time, you get a good overview of the City and some history. A few cities I've been to where they are a waste of time but Barcelona wasn't one of them. Just make sure you don't join the sheeple waiting to get on at Placa Catalunya...

In Madrid, we stayed at Hotel Carlos V which was in a great location.. I highly recommend taking in the atmosphere at Mercado San Miguel, grab a bottle of Vino, grab a few tapas from the different stands and people watch..
There were a few scammers near the Royal Palace, one was offering 'free massages' to weary tourists while they emptied your wallet, another was teenagers swarming people wanting them to sign a petition while distracted you get your wallet stolen.. Having read about this before hand and they don't want to take no for an answer I just very loudly said.. NO, raised my hand in front of their face while saying Back off Thief and they quickly left.
Some people prey on our 'politeness' I also saw to girls lift someones I phone out of his back pocket, actually I saw them drop it as he was moving and it slipped from her grasp..Stupid place to store it so I guess he was asking for trouble!

We loved Barcelona, in Madrid we went to Museo del Prado we were blown away by 'The Garden of Earthly Delights' and The Haywain by Hieronymus Bosch. We also saw Guerica in the Renia Sofia Museum.

On the Passeig de Gracia we went to both Casa Mila and Casa Batlló Casa Batllo is privately owned and entrance fee higher both are amazing buildings and well worth the visit.

Russ Said;

>>>Why Munich? This whirlwind misses Paris and Rome for Munich and Amsterdam? And you're going to a wine town in Germany when France and Italy are within a few hundred miles?

I, too, am shocked that anyone would want to see Amsterdam and Munich instead of Paris and Rome. The nerve!

And Rudesheim? Is he kidding us?

Even though it's actually over 1000 km to Chianti or Bordeaux, not a few hundred miles like you state, I mean; Germany, and the Rhine river valley. For wine? He should just suck it up, get on a train, and travel the 10 hours to get the good stuff.

Jig- If you are bound and determined to use a travel agent, I would suggest you read a trip report on this site


Germany, Austria, and Italy Trip Report
Posted by: traveldug on May 24, 12 at 12:25am

They seemed to be pleased with their trip and thought it was reasonably priced.

As everyone states, it will be more work to plan your own trip but that is part of travel- It should force you to better understand the areas you wish to visit and give you some satisfaction when you complete planning the trip.

You will also be better equipped to handle emergencies when they happen on the trip. Case in point: I bought 2 15 day Eurail passes from a local travel agency for a trip maaany years ago. They asked if they could do more and, on a whim, I asked if they could make reservations at one hotel in Amsterdam and one in Rome. I even gave them the names of the hotels. The agency provided me a sheet of paper with all of the info, confirmation numbers, etc. Of course when I arrived at both hotels they pleaded no reservation even tho I had reservation "confirmation" numbers. Most of my memories of that trip is associated with those 2 hotels. (I must admit we did spend 3 days at the Oktoberfest between those hotels which may have led to some memory loss!) Bottom line, stuff happens as you travel and taking care of the unexpected is part of the travel experience that you may remember most.

Have a good time on your trip!

Shared Transfer with Meet and Greet - Heathrow Airport to London Hotel 2-Adults It's an easy & cheap (around £10 for two) transfer by Tube with a short walk at the end. Even a car service for you alone would be around £30

London
4 Nights London - Apex Temple Court-City 1-Double Any particular reason why this hotel? Plenty of other areas where you'd have major sights on your doorstep

London Oyster Card (Transportation Pass) - 20 GBP Value 2-Adults A travelcard bought at a train NOT Tube station ticket office allows you to use the offers on daysoutguide.com. For 4 days get Oystercards at Heathrow, load them with around £25 per person, use them to get to your hotel then on the days you want to use the offers go to the nearest train station and buy a one day Travelcard - better still do it the day before as you pass a train station.

Historic and Modern London Tour - 8 Hours 2-Adults
Highlights include: Photo stop at Westminster Abbey, see the Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace, visit Covent Garden, entry to the Tower of London, see the famous Crown Jewels, special entry to St Paul`s Cathedral, enjoy a Thames River cruise. A panoramic tour of London which takes you past many of the famous sights of London`s West End including Big Ben, and the Houses of Parliament, as well as Downing Street, the residence of the prime minister.

All of which you can do by yourself, at your own pace, ignoring the things you aren't that interested in - and it totally ignores all the world class FREE things in London


London Eye Fast Track Entry 2-Adults And if the weather is bad that day? Don't book it in advance, just pay on the day when you have decent weather. Up until the end of March it's in the 2-4-1 offers mentioned earlier. It probably will also be in the offers from October

Shared Transfer - London Hotel to Heathrow Airport 2-Adults See earlier comments

Jig welcome to fodors, sorry about the joshing but the advice is meant to help. Like others I think your TA is ripping your wallet a bit. In addition to the notes above
1) Downing Street, is just a gated street, all you will see is a vague fake wrought iron gate (housing a tank trap), a bunch of Police (with guns carefully out of sight) and the odd politico popping in
2) Do go to a wine area in Germany, you have chosen the best area in the Rheingau (Rudesheim) and as well as tasting your way through some great dry, semi-sweet and sweet white wines do try the cable car over the vines.
3) At Barcelona I'd catch the train out to Torres vinyard to enjoy some of the the most innovative wines in the western hemisphere. I'll let you google all the details, but it requires no special tour, just a cheap train, and a short taxi or (since it is only 1km) a short walk.

I was trying to spot the dates of your trip and I guess they have to coincide with Oktoberfest. The world's biggest wine festival happens in Bad Durkheim in late Sept, if that is of interest you could shuffle things a bit and see if there is any conjunction.

Folks - The OP gets it. Note his post >>Thank you for all those who have given me advice and not bashed . . . The main thing is wed like to do London, some of Spain, and obviously Munich. Like said have 3 weeks. If i stick to those and take some stuff out it shoudl lower our price right? Thanks for all help<<

I'd think we'll do better helping w/ a reasonable itinerary instead of more dissection of that awful/expensive tour.

Jigeuro

if you care to post a revised itinerary [simply confirming that you have decided to do London, Spain and Munich/southern Germany for example] i'm sure there are many people here who will be very pleased to help you plan your trip.

oops - here it is:


http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/got-some-advice-from-yall-now-i-wanna-correct-our-plan-etc-london-spain-germany.cfm

I'll post the outline in a sec, thanks so much!!

<<It's a really dumb trip and way too expensive.

That is a really obnoxious reply. I don't think it's a dumb trip at all; I didn't scrutinize it as to cost, but it does seem expensive.

My only initial comment: IMO, I'd not do 4 days in Barcelona. I know everyone loves Barcelona but I think 4 days is too long knowing you will want to see so much else.

2013  
Shared Transfer with Meet and Greet - Heathrow Airport to London Hotel 2-adults
 
 
 
 
 
 London
4 Nights London - London Lodge Hotel-Standard 1-Double
 London Oyster Card (Transportation Pass) - 20 GBP
 
Historic and Modern London Tour - 8 Hours 2-Adults
 Highlights include: Photo stop at Westminster Abbey, see the Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace, visit Covent Garden, entry to the Tower of London, see the famous Crown Jewels, special entry to St Paul`s Cathedral, enjoy a Thames River cruise. A panoramic tour of London which takes you past many of the famous sights of London`s West End including Big Ben, and the Houses of Parliament, as well as Downing Street, the residence of the prime minister.
 
London Eye Fast Track Entry 2-Adults
 
Shared Transfer - London Hotel to Heathrow Airport 2-adults
 
Private Transfer - Madrid Airport to Madrid Hotel - Day 2-Adults
 
Madrid
3 Nights Madrid - Hotel Vincci Via 66-Standard 1-Double
 Madrid City and Royal Palace Tour - 3.5 Hours 2-Adults
 
 
 
First you will have a city tour of the most important and interesting sites of Madrid. At the end you will reach the Royal Palace for a visit. The Royal Palace is a beautiful exponent of the 18th century and one of the best preserved in Europe, the permanent symbol making firm Madrid as the political capital of the Kingdom. In it, the most bright official receptions of the Crown are taking place. Audiences, gala dinners, signature of important agreements and the very traditional ceremony of credential letters from Foreign Ambassadors to his Majesty the King. You will visit the Principal staircase, rooms of Alabarderos, columns, throne, Gasparini, Carlos III, porcelains, Gala dining room, museum of silver, musical instruments, principal courtyard, real chapel and the new four rooms.
 

Toledo Tour - 5 Hours - Afternoon 2-Adults
 Rail pricing not yet available or included: MADRID - BARCELONA
 
4 Nights Barcelona - K+ K Hotel Picasso-Standard 1-Double

Barcelona City Tour - 3.5 Hours 2-Adults
 
See Via Layetana, the Cathedral and its cloister, the Gothic Quarter, Plaza San Jaume (Generalitat and the Town Hall). Continue on to the Olympic Village and the seaport. Next, head to Montjuic for a panoramic view of the city and the seaport. Tour the stadium, Sant Jordi Palace, and the Calatrava Tower. Also visit Spanish Town, where the most typical regional architectural styles in Spain are reproduced. You`ll also be treated to a taste of famous Catalan Cava.

Montserrat Half-Day Tour from Barcelona - 5 Hours 2-Adults

Private Transfer - Barcelona Hotel to Barcelona Airport - Night 2-Adults
 
Air; BCN-MUC, LH Flight
Use Railpass from Munich Airport to Munich HBF Rail Station
 
 2nd Class Eurail Benelux - Germany Pass 5 days within 2 Months 2-Adults
 
 1 Night Fussen - Hotel Hirsch-Standard 1-Double
 
 Rail pass fussen-Munich

 
 Munich
- Oktoberfest.
 5 Nights Munich - K+K Hotel am Harras-Standard - Oktoberfest Special 1-Double
 
 Dachau Memorial Site Half-Day Tour - 4.5 Hours 2-Adults
 
Munich Hop-on/Hop-off City Tour Express Circle Line Grayline Sightseeing
Rail pricing not yet available or included: MUNICH - AMSTERDAM
 
 
Amsterdam
2 Nights Amsterdam - Hampshire Hotel Theater District-Standard 1-Double
 
 
Van Gogh Museum and Canal Bus Day Combination Pass 2-Adults
 
11k -2adults
 

That was my latest itinerary, keep in mind right now just want the framework so I can book flights and days, the tours I can take out etc. Amsterdam was a bonus because main thing is London, Spain, and Oktoberfest. Concerns are price, 5 days in Munich too much?? 3 nights Madrid too few?? Thanks for the help. I'll keep plugging away till the TA gets it where I want it and right. This is our first time in Europe just me and the wife. Want us to book a lot of little stuff as you can see ahead of time to avoid hassle in wasting time that's her thought I guess.

Buying all sorts of extra from a TA just boosts her profit - and ties you into things you may well not want to do on certain days.

What if you get a day of pouring rain when you're booked to do something outdoors. What if you're up late the night before and want to sleep in.

Unless this TA is really getting you a lot of special deals - you're just wasting a lot of time and money not doing it yourself.

And those hotels are typically tour group hotels - and some of the few that will pay commission to the TA - which is why they're giving them to you.

I understand you are still shaping this tour but just for fun I thought I'd look at Hampshire Hotel, Theatre District. Trip Advisor scores it 212 out of 349 and comments are entertaining.

You have two options in Amsterdam, stay in souless international hotels or small bijou ones. It's up to you but I like Bijou. Hotel Brouwer is about three rings of defensive canals in from the Hampshire (so about a 4 minute walk) and very small and old fashioned, in fact I'm not sure the floors are flat anywhere in the place. Scores 65 out of 349.

We stayed at the Hotel Brouwer in 2010 and loved it. Great location, nice people, canal views out the window, floors definitely not flat, ...the building dates to 1650-something.

Amsterdam is very walkable; even so, the Brouwer is only about a block or so from a major tram stop.

SS

You don't need pre-set tours in Madrid. The historic core is very small and walkable on your own. Just use the self-guided walks that can be found in any major guidebook.

You'll be able to go at your own pace, stay longer on what you like or omit what doesn't interest you personally, adapt your plan according to weather, and save money as well.

Also, public transport from the airport is very inexpensive in Madrid.

You can take the Metro to the Atocha train station easily (to get to Barcelona)...though the Renfe website is a nightmare for American users, and you may prefer to use the Rail Europe site that is a little more expensive but much more user-friendly. Buy tickets well in advance for the best prices.

You're young! You may find that independent travel is more rewarding than escorted travel...and much cheaper. The folks here really know their stuff and are (for the most part) understanding and very helpful.

SS

RE: London...

With only 4 days in London, here's my opinion:

Don't waste any time at the changing of the guard. If you want to see something similar, walk over to the changing of the horse guards in Whitehall. You'll be up close and personal.

Don't do the Eye. It's very nice, but not worth the time or money for a first-timer in the city with 4 days.

Don't miss the Tower - I think it's the best thing in London.

Do go inside Westminster Abbey. This is a real treasure, not a photo op.

Do take the Thames Cruise.

Don't use an Oyster Card. Get your transport pass at a rail station so you can take advantage of the 2-for-1 coupons:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/special-2-for-1-days-out-coupon-thread.cfm

As always, do the self-guided walks found in tour books.

London has so much to offer, you need to make choices based on your personal likes...lots of free world-class art and history museums, great churches, theatre, etc.

I love the British Library, but it is not to everyone's taste. Everything from medieval books to Beatles manuscripts and a great stamp collection.

I also love the Museum of London, one of a half-dozen free top-flight museums in the city.

SS

BTW...what the hell is "Meet and Greet"? Sounds like something expensive and useless.

Most folks ought to be able to find their way from Heathrow to their hotel without much help - - just ask the people here, and they'll suggest several ways of varying ease and price from which you can make an informed choise.

SS

Tell me again why you're using a TA?

I quit reading after >>Photo stop at Westminster Abbey,<<

That is simply silly. The outside of the Abbey is - well, a nice, big church and not overly beautiful or iconic. The reason to go to Westminster Abbey is to go inside. That is where one finds the Coronation chair and Elizabeth I's tomb and Poets' Corner and Edward the Confessors' shrine and stained glass windows and the Chapter House and everything else . . . none of which can be seen from outside.

"Tell me again why you're using a TA?" . . . amen to that.

>>Photo stop at Westminster Abbey,<<

I, too, was a little weirded out by that. After all, you can find a photo of the outside of Westminster Abbey online or at any local library...and no airfare from California is needed.

Westminster Abbey is, IMHO, a "must see" for a 4-day first-trip to London...a top-ten sight in every tour book. What competent travel agent would plan what is essentially a "drive-by shooting"?

You need to ditch the TA.

SS

I WILL be going into the abbey and the british museum on our own the following day. As for the TA goes its my first time and I wanted the framework there since its a bit differnet itenarary. Basically all the TA is doing is setting up my flights and hotels and the routes. Were Amsterdam only for 2 nights before we come home as a bonus because my wife really would like to see the Anne Franks house (its on her bucket list)The tours I had listed I can always take them out I kept a couple the least intrusive and to give the wife a general knowledge. Thanks for all the help Ill give you the latest itinarary shortly and I can keep tweaking.

We did Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, and London in 13 days last summer and all at 5k for entire trip. It is really easy to hit all those countries wtih short train rides between. My favorite was Amsterdam not sure why people knocking it but it is gorgeous and people so friendly there. We alos loved Paris and London. Good luck. Trust me its cheaper if you book yourself find cheaper flights and train tickets online. My family is goign to Italy this summer travel agent quoted 50k for family 6 and buy booking ourselves we got it down to 25k for famil of 6. Good luck email me if you need help.

Really ridiculous that you have a travel agent.

You are getting great advice here from WORLD TRAVELERS. Many people here have traveled to your destinations multiple times. Please ditch the travel agent and get your advice, and your hotell booking and transportation info here.

>>>Basically all the TA is doing is setting up my flights and hotels and the routes.

And the meet and greets, and the photo ops, and the tours, and the "special entries", and the private transfers, and the overpriced rail.... Etc, etc.

Sheesh.

I think you have the outline of a very nice trip.

I would let the TA book your air and hotels and maybe some train tickets BUT take out *everything* else. You can figure out your own transportation, buy tickets to a museum or city tour, or whatever you choose to do each day. And even hotels I would ask for at least 3 choices in each city, get a map and look at the locations, and read reviews online before you decide.

It's all the extras is how travel agents make money these days. No need for them to finance their kids college education off your trip (lol!).

No, NOT rail tickets. seat61.com has all the info you need to book your own rail and save money!

I don't see any reason for the TA to book anything. Air and hotel are easy to do on the web.

I was trying to find a compromise. If JigEuro was comfortable planning his own trip entirely, he wouldn't be using a Travel Agent in the first place.

OK below is my itinerary as of today, there are soem stuff still that I might take out. Trying to maximize our time and reason for some of the overall city tours is the wife wants quick overview of what stuff is on one day and then we can explore the rest. All help is greatly appreciated! thanks

FLIGHTS TO AND FROM 3 WEEKS
Depart from Southern Cali,
Arrive London Heathrow, Unit (LHR) (Next Day)-direct flight
Depart AM London Heathrow, Unit (LHR)
Arrive Madrid, Spain (MAD)
Depart AM Amsterdam, Netherland (AMS)
Arrive London Heathrow, Unit (LHR)
Depart London Heathrow, Unit (LHR)
Arrive HOME
ITINERARY:
Shared Transfer -Heathrow Airport to London Hotel 2-Adults (cheap rate from airport to hotel, only time I will do this on the trip)

4 Nights London –
London Lodge Hotel-Standard 1-Double
London Oyster Card (Transportation Pass) - 20 GBP Value 2-Adults
2ndday :
Historic and Modern London Tour - 8 Hours 2-Adults (90 USD)
Highlights include: Photo stop at Westminster Abbey, see the Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace, visit Covent Garden, entry to the Tower of London, see the famous Crown Jewels, special entry to St Paul`s Cathedral, enjoy a Thames River cruise. A panoramic tour of London which takes you past many of the famous sights of London`s West End including Big Ben, and the Houses of Parliament, as well as Downing Street, the residence of the prime minister.
3rd and 4th day: FREE DAYS

Shared Transfer - London Hotel to Heathrow Airport 2-Adult
Madrid
3 Nights Madrid - Hotel Vincci Via 66-Standard 1-Double
1st day /afternoon – FREE day
2nd-day- Madrid City and Royal Palace Tour - 3.5 Hours 2-Adults
First you will have a city tour of the most important and interesting sites of Madrid. At the end you will reach the Royal Palace for a visit. The Royal Palace is a beautiful exponent of the 18th century and one of the best preserved in Europe, the permanent symbol making firm Madrid as the political capital of the Kingdom. In it, the most bright official receptions of the Crown are taking place. Audiences, gala dinners, signature of important agreements and the very traditional ceremony of credential letters from Foreign Ambassadors to his Majesty the King. You will visit the Principal staircase, rooms of Alabarderos, columns, throne, Gasparini, Carlos III, porcelains, Gala dining room, museum of silver, musical instruments, principal courtyard, real chapel and the new four rooms.
3nd day-Toledo Tour - 5 Hours - Afternoon 2-Adults
Toledo is a museum city of great artistic beauty. It was once the capital of Spain and it`s one of the oldest cities in Europe. Toledo has many magnificent examples of architecture from different eras and has been declared a Heritage of Humanity destination by UNESCO. Visit its most famous monuments, such as: the Cathedral (Primada of Spain), St. Tome Church, Santa Maria La Blanca Synagogue, and San Juan de los Reyes Church. We will also admire the city`s famous handicraft works: the "damasquinado " (precious metals incrusted on steel).

Rail: MADRID to BARCELONA

Barcelona
4 Nights Barcelona - K+ K Hotel Picasso-Standard 1-Double
1st day Barcelona City Tour - 3.5 Hours 2-Adults
See Via Layetana, the Cathedral and its cloister, the Gothic Quarter, Plaza San Jaume (Generalitat and the Town Hall). Continue on to the Olympic Village and the seaport. Next, head to Montjuic for a panoramic view of the city and the seaport. Tour the stadium, Sant Jordi Palace, and the Calatrava Tower. Also visit Spanish Town, where the most typical regional architectural styles in Spain are reproduced. You`ll also be treated to a taste of famous Catalan Cava.
2nd 3rd –Free DAYS
Air; BARCELONA - MUNICH
Railpass from Munich Airport to Munich HBF Rail Station
2nd Class Eurail Benelux - Germany Pass 5 days within 2 Months 2-Adult
Use railpass: Munich-Fussen
Fussen
1 Night Fussen - Hotel Hirsch-Standard 1-Double
use railpass: Fussen-Munich
Munich
5 Nights Munich - K+K Hotel am Harras-Standard - Oktoberfest Special 1-Double
1st day - Dachau Memorial Site Half-Day Tour - 4.5 Hours 2-Adults
2nd through 4th is FREE DAYS

Munich Hop-on/Hop-off City Tour Express Circle Line Grayline Sightseeing 2-Adults
This bus tour gives the overall highlights of the city. Tour stops at Painting galleries , Odeonsplatz , Max-Joseph-Platz (National Theater, Opera House, Residence Museum with Treasure Chamber) , Marienplatz / Tal (New City Hall with famous Chimes, Old City Hall with Toy Museum, Cathedral, Church St. Peter, New Jewish Cultural Centre, Beer Hall) , and Karlsplatz (Stachus, in front of the fountain, Pedestrian zone / Shopping center

Rail: MUNICH - AMSTERDAM
Amsterdam
2 Nights Amsterdam - Hampshire Hotel Theater District-Standard 1-Double
Amsterdam City Sightseeing Hop-on/Hop-off City Tour 2-Adults

Approx.: 10K for 2 adults

I really would ditch the 8 hour tour in London.

>>Shared Transfer -Heathrow Airport to London Hotel 2-Adults (cheap rate from airport to hotel, only time I will do this on the trip)<<

How much are they charging you? We can tell you whether it is a cheap rate or not.

This doesn't seem to have changed much.

How many days are you using the rail pass? Have you compared the cost of the pass to advance purchase online tickets from bahn.de?

Have you compared the cost of flying from Amsterdam to London to taking the train?

Have you checked tripadvisor reviews on these hotels, and checked their websites for the costs?

Or are you just taking this TA's pricing on faith?

Also remember that you can usually fly "open jaw" into one city and out of another so you don't have the expense (in both time and money) of backtracking to make a return flight. I'm with everyone else...if you possibly can, make your own bookings. It is not at all difficult.

i'm assuming that JigEuro has his heart set on using the travel agent despite our pleas to do a little research and go it alone. i really don't understand......but.... this is HIS trip

>>"FREE DAYS" .. what? They should all be free days.

Quite frankly, it just sounds like you don't want to bother doing any research on your own, nor do you really want to take the great advice here that so many have offered. With all of the time you have spent posting here and talking to your TA, you could have been doing what thursdaysd has suggested >Checking things out for yourself.

All of these shared transfers, overpriced tours, Eurail passes, etc are just silly. You two are not kids, you are adults with the ability to research and plan. My 18 year old nephew and his friend planned a 2 week trip to Europe on their own. No help from a TA necessary. Instead, hey got help here at Fodor's, and a few other sites. AND THEY LISTENED to seasoned travelers and their advice. They had a great time, and didn't have to spend a ton. They booked their own flights, train tix, hotels and activities.

At this point, if you decide to pay for all of this unnecessary stuff, you only have yourself to blame for getting ripped off.

My work schedule is tough to deal with so thats why Im using a TA but I will get in line with what yall are saying. I started checking things out and I will ask for a breakdown of all the stuff to see if it matches, the Hotels I have so far are all pretty good with good to great reviews. I have written this stuff down and will take it to my TA to question etc. Thanks for the help sorry if it sounds like im stubborn really trying to do the right thing.

JigEuro - i understand why you're using a TA - we felt like that on our first trips to south africa and Sri lanka.

good idea to compare what the TA is saying with what you can find out yourselves.

shes actually really flexible and will work with me, Im bit overwhelmed with my work and a trip iof these magnitude thansk for understanding. All help is appreciated believe me.

<< Thanks for the help sorry if it sounds like im stubborn really trying to do the right thing. >>

JigEuro...

No need to apologize. You should do what makes you comfortable. We Fodorites love to give advice...and it's only fair that we not get offended if you don't take it all.

I do suggest (and it looks like you are doing this in a small way) that you try a bit of independent travel here and there. Hopefully, you'll find that you like it, and you'll be more independent and less overwhelmed next time - - and there WILL be a next time. Once bitten by the travel bug, there's no end to it.

SS

PS - an 8-hour "tour" of London may not be your best use of time...you might consider dropping that. Covent Garden is just a bunch of stores & eateries; Downing St (as stated earlier) is nothing at all; the changing of the guard is vastly over-rated. For $90 (with 2-for-1 coupons) you can see the Tower (in which you will want to spend a lot of time at your own pace or following a Beefeater around for a free, thorough tour -- not just the jewels), St Paul's, and do the river cruise, and have enough left over for a nice lunch...and take a walk from the Abbey & Parliament to Trafalgar Sq. Spend your 8 hours this way:

Tube to St Paul's.
Tube to Tower - spend several hours there
Take river cruise from Tower to Westminster pier.
Walk up Whitehall from Westminster to Trafalgar Sq

SS

Jig euro, you are a good sport to keep coming back here after being bashed about a bit!

We used a TA for our first trip and while in hindsight we realise we could have organised lots of it ourselves, at the time we were a bit clueless, plus we didn't know about Fodor's.

I definitely agree that you don't want to have too many days pre-booked. We travel now with a list of what we want to see and I have it sorted geographically so that each morning we can decide what to do. If the weather is awful then we head to a gallery or museum and save the outdoors for nicer days.

Thanks I want to and will take s much advice as possibly can these last too posts are exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

ssander,
I can still do independent if I just take out some of those tours etc right? Im thinking that would work out.

I still say (i know i know i'm repeating myself). Let the TA book flights and hotels. And do the rest yourself. Any major city in Europe has tourist information readily & freely available after you arrive. You can plan day by day as you go along. That's how I have always done it.

I agree- use the TA to book the flights and hotels (as long as you are happy w/ the hotel locations) just to take those details off your plate.

Before you agree to all those airport transfers . . . you need to know how much they are costing. I've seen transfers that were 'offered' by tours and hotels in London for instance that cost 3 to 5+ times what just booking a car service would set you back.

And forget about all those extra tours . . .

Right. I understand that you're (both?) busy, but the more you plan yourself the more you'll get out of your trip. Certainly, let the TA handle the flights (but make sure that any connections aren't too short), and maybe the hotels, but do check the locations - you want to be central.

JE...

I don't see why you can't combine some of what the TA offers and still leave lots of time for self-planned things. One of the reasons I made my suggestion was that there is no way to predict how much time you'll spend at the Tower. I'll elaborate on my "Beefeater" comment:

http://www.hrp.org.uk/TowerOfLondon/stories/yeomanwarder

They will lead you around the Tower in a free tour (every 30 min), and they are very knowledgeable and entertaining. You haven't paid for it, so if you want to wander off and ditch the tour, that's OK, too. I personally really like them...and I've been to the Tower several times. There is much to see besides the jewels.

Also, the walk between Parliament/Abbey and Trafalgar should be done with a self-guided walk -- found in any of the standard tour books...there is a lot to see in those few blocks, and you'll not want to see it from a bus.

A lot of newbies to London want to see the changing of the guard -- I did, too, back in 1966 on my first trip -- but I think you'll find the consensus here is that it is over-rated. Large crowds, bad views, long wait. On the Abbey-Trafalgar walk, you can get close enough to touch (but don't!!) the horse guards:

http://www.tourist-information-uk.com/horseguards.htm

The times may not work with the plan I gave yesterday, but if you like what you see on your walk, you can come back at the appropriate time the next day and see the whole thing.

SS

yes, if you let your TA book the flights and hotels, [check here what they are suggesting first] we can suggest the best transfers, tours, itineraries etc.

as you'll have gathered, there's nothing we like better than handing on the fruits of our collective "wisdom" to others!

JigEuro,
understand that first and foremost we want you to enjoy your trip regardless of whichever route you go. the advice you receive on here is valuable because many of us are frequent travelers or have years and years of experience doing so. i too think it's smart to have your travel agent schedule the flights and possibly hotels so that you have the logistics out of the way. that way she won't be "cut out" of the deal... they can normally negotiate better rates on that stuff anyway

<<At this point, if you decide to pay for all of this unnecessary stuff, you only have yourself to blame for getting ripped off.

Don't forget, not everyone travels like many of us do. We want to know we are seeing what would most interest us. Some people are more than content to "go along fot the ride". And don't mind paying to be told what to do.

We went on a Med cruise this past summer and I thoroughly researched each port. I found great private tour operators at 2 ports and scheduled 2 tours that included so much more than the ship's excursion, they were private AND they cost less than the ship's excursions.

When we returned, friends put me in touch with 2 other people who were going on similar cruises (one the exact same one). I wrote long emails to them about our private tours, raved about how much we saw and provided their email contacts. I told them what to make to sure to include and noted that the ship's excursions did not included several sites I thought were very worthwhile to see (and that I would have been disappointed to miss). It could not have been easier for both of them to make the arrangements - it would have required a simple email.

When they returned, I was anxious to talk to them about their trip. I asked them if they enjoyed the private tours. Both said, "No, we just booked the ship's excursion. It was easier".

We enjoyed our trip, and they enjoyed theirs. They didn't feel the sense that they misssed anything. I learned that I just approach things like this differently. Which is why I find Fodors so invaluable - b/c I can ask detailed questions and get the answers, and know I am talking to like-minded people.