cmmtac

My wife and I are going to Europe in July 2017 for 3 weeks with our DDs (10 and 5 yo) and are trying to put together an itinerary. We plan to stay in apartments booked thru vrbo and using public transport except in Bologna and Tours where we intend to get a car.
We can add one more day to the trip if needed and Bologna can be changed for another city from where we can make day trips.
Our daughters are at a French School and this will be their first trip to France and for my wife it will be her first time in Italy.

Your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Day 1- Arrive to Rome.
Days 2-4 Rome.
Day 5 - train to Bologna.
Day 6-8 Bologna.
Day 6 -Day trip to Parma and Modena.
Day 7 -Bologna.
Day 8 -Day trip to either Ferrara or Rimini and Pesaro or Venice.
Day 9 -Train to Milan and night train to Paris.
Day 10-16 Paris.
Day 17 - Train to Tours and rent car there.
Day 18-19 Visiting the Chateaux.
Day 20 - train to Paris.
Day 21 - Fly back home.

WoinParis

Sounds goof !
I think you spend too little time in Rome.
The daytrip on day 8 would have to be Venice in my mind.
Not sure there are still night trains but Milan - Paris goes easy by plane (easyjet would be my rec, check the luggage section of these low costs airlines).
Have fun !

WoinParis

Soudn good, not goof.
Check and recheck Airbnb/Vrbo's apartments, most are now illegal in Paris at least - not sure of status elsewhere.
Means you can be accomplice to theft - but it is more theics, nothing will happen to you, other than the apartment disappearing suddenly.
Several thread about the subject, seacrh for apartment illegal and you'll find some...

dreamon

I don't think you need a car for the Italian bit as all those places are easily visited by train.

I was going to say that if you plan to arrive in Paris in the morning, your accommodation is unlikely to be available so perhaps consider travelling to Tours instead of Paris. That clusters all your time in Paris at the end and avoids that one night in Paris at the end. However, when I checked the added journey time Milan to Tours (compared with Milan to Paris) is quite a lot so might not work so well for you. If you had an extra day you could break the journey between Bologna and Tours with a one night stop somewhere. I fear I'm rambling but you might feel that you're on the move a lot with just one night in Paris before flying home.

bvlenci

I agree with Wo: too little time in Rome, and I'd choose Venice for the daytrip. Ferrara would be a nice day trip also, but if your wife and children have never seen Venice, that's an opportunity not to be missed.

I certainly wouldn't choose Rimini or Pesaro for a daytrip from Bologna, and I live near Pesaro. Maybe you were thinking of an amusement park in Rimini? There are several in Riccione, but those are things you can do at home, and I don't think you'll find better amusement parks here.

dreamon

I think that with 3 full days and 2 part days that you have enough time in Rome, especially as it's likely to be hot.

<<and Bologna can be changed for another city from where we can make day trips.>>
Did you pick Bologna and look to see what day trips were possible? Or select Bologna because you wanted to do those day trips? If the former and you are looking for alternatives to Bologna (with different day trips), there are many options, including Siena, Vicenza, Verona, Bergamo and many many others.

One other observation is that all the place you mention in Italy are cities and it might be nice to visit somewhere much smaller and semi-rural as well. Perhaps that could be your extra day?

ssander

A couple of suggestions:

-- More time needed in Rome.

-- From Bologna, IMHO the very best day-trip (and very easy by train) is to Ravenna with its exquisite mosaics.

ssander

Southam

Bologna is both a scenic and a strategic choice as a base in the north. Your kids should enjoy the many miles of sidewalks covered by arches, good in both rain and hot sunshine. In July you might find air conditioning a comfort. Your comment about public transit seems curious. Bologna has an extensive bus system which you probably will use to get to the train station, outside the downtown core. Some of that central area becomes a pedestrian zone in summer which may cause variances in the bus routes, and weekends may be different than business days. But the pedestrian areas will be no-go for a private car. Side trips are a different story, especially for a group of four, and renting a car by the day may be more economical. Research can help you compare the rates, and convenience (pro and con) to using the extensive train system.
For general advice, http://www.bolognawelcome.com/en/
Also Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna

cmmtac

Great ideas!

WoinParis and dreamon,
You're right, there are several low cost flights to Paris; that way we can take a train to Tours the same day leaving Paris for last and gaining one day.
bvlenci and Southam,
Now that we have 2 extra days we could go to Venice and fly from there to Paris.
Or we can add one each to Bologna and Rome.
dreamon,
If we go to Venice for 2 days we would have a day in Bologna for that smaller and semi-rural area. Are you thinking any area in particular? My wife liked very much your suggestion.

mjs

Just a question, no interest in Florence? In any case I would change a few things. First I agree you need at least an extra day for Rome and I would take it from Paris. I would also do at least 2 nights or better yet 3 nights in Venice. Fly Venice to Orly, than rent a car to drive to the Loire valley. Return car to Orly and spend the rest of your time in Paris. Five full days for Paris is pretty decent.

dreamon

cmmtac, your plans sound excellent. Train is certainly possible as well as flying but it is quite a long journey if you go direct to Tours. If you did take the train, then a one night stopover in Switzerland or perhaps somewhere like Lyon or Annecy might be possible.

I'm afraid I don't know the area around Bologna very well. I would perhaps choose something using google maps and google images.

But perhaps one idea would be to take the train from Bologna to Florence (about 35min), then the bus immediately from the station to Fiesole (check google images for visuals). After visiting Fiesole, you could then walk back to Florence (about 6km) and explore Florence for a few hours. There are quite a lot of street performers in Florence in the evening so you could dine in Florence and head back to Bologna late evening. That way you get a taste of Florence and also some 'green' time.

My personal preference would be to give more time to Paris than to Rome, especially if the kids are learning French. We did things like encourage our kids (who were also learning French) to order their own crepes at the local market. They were very shy to speak at first but slowly developed some confidence.

cmmtac

dreamon, we can take a morning flight from either Bologna or Venice to Paris (2 hours) and then a train to Tours and be there at 6pm. I agree it's a long journey but that would free a day.

With 2 extra days, we need to make our mind to either add one day to Rome and Bologna each or add a 2 days in Venice. What do you think?

dreamon

Either would be fine but I would have your two days in Venice. Venice is drowning in tourists but is very beautiful.

I would also consider having your extra two days in Bologna. I don't know Bologna but it is central for many day trips including Florence, Verona, Ferrara, Ravenna, Parma, Modena etc. without packing up and moving on. I also read recently on another thread about the possibility of visiting Marradi by local train from Faenza. Do you think the kids would get sick of day trips most days or relish something new?

Have you considered Ferrara instead of Bologna? How do others compare Bologna and Ferrara? I'd be interested to know for myself.

ssander

Last year we flew from Bologna (BLQ) to Paris (CDG) on Air France for $43.

I see that mid-week in July 2017 can be as low as $39 right now (7:00 a.m. flight arrives at CDG at 8:45) on Air France's website.

You have to get up early, but the taxi ride to the airport is about 15 min and pretty cheap.

ssander

bilboburgler

I'd use the local public transport for trips in or around Bologna. While Venice is a bit of a hike you might like Chioggia, nothing like as big but just as interesting and with fewer tourists and some great fish restaurants.

Ravenna is just down the railtrack as is Modena.

PalenQ

Day 17 - Train to Tours and rent car there.

Go by TGV to StPierre-des-Corps- mainline train station in Tours instead of secondary old main station in Tours itself. Lots of car rentals and well out of Tours which can see some horrendous traffic - a short drive to Amboise my suggested base for the best of the Loire cheateaux.

Could take train to Amboise from SPC but there are fewer car rentals in Amboise.

for lots on French and Italian trains check www.seat61.com - good advice on discounted tickets on long-distance trains in each country; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Regional trains like out of Bologna are dirt cheap flat fare - no reason to buy ahead - just at station as you go but fastest trains for longer distances can have deep discounts by booking the limited in number discounted tickets weeks/months in advance- but they are non-changeable non-refundable and train specific so be sure of your itinerary and don't miss that train.

cmmtac1

Update on the trip:

Will start in Paris and end in Rome due to better plane schedules -done now.

Tours left for next trip.

Changed Bologna for Florence.

Final itinerary: Paris 7 days/ Venice 3/ Florence 4 and Rome 4.

We will now work on the apartments and then the itineraries for these cities and will post them for your advise which has been super useful.