3 weeks in Europe
Jul 29th, 2014, 07:29 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3 weeks in Europe
Hi, Im a newcomer to this board. My Wife and I are taking our Honeymoon in Europe for three weeks in October of 2015. We planned on flying into Paris since it was the cheapest flight we found. We wanted to see Paris for a day or two, then head to Munich for rotenburg (?) Dachau, Oktoberfest, and a castle. from Munich to Rome ( we were invited to stay with the crosiers at Vatican city. We must be in Rome the 18th and 19th.) then spend the last 2-4 days on the island of Crete in Greece.
We are having difficulty figuring out the best and most cost effective way of traveling between these countries with our luggage. Rail passes looked to be 1000 USD per person (roughly).
Looking for idea's to help keep the dream a reality for us. We are a blue collar couple so this is a once in a lifetime trip for us. any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome
We are having difficulty figuring out the best and most cost effective way of traveling between these countries with our luggage. Rail passes looked to be 1000 USD per person (roughly).
Looking for idea's to help keep the dream a reality for us. We are a blue collar couple so this is a once in a lifetime trip for us. any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome
Jul 29th, 2014, 08:21 AM
#2
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you flying in and out of Paris or are you looking at open jaw tickets - to avoid wasted time and money to get back to Paris/
You don't say what your interests are - and it looks to me like you are really short-changing Paris - which IMHO for a first visit needs 3.5 days (5 nights).
As for Germany - not sure when you plan to go but much of Oktoberfest is actually in September - and hotel prices them will be sky high. Rothenburg is very cute - but while you are in Munich you should spend a couple of days seeing that and the castles in southern Bavaria.
I'm not at all sure that a rail pass is your best bet. For instance - there is a special pass for Bavaria that might cover that portion of the trip - but you really need to look into individual fares (at the web sites of the appropriate rail company for each country - do NOT look at RailEurope - they are a reseller and very expensive).
And I think flying to Crete is the only option. Not sure why you are going there. It may or may not be warm enough for beach in Oct - I don't have the details but would check.
For a start suggest you lay out your trip one day at a time - since what you have listed doesn't seem to take up 21 days (or however many you actually have on the ground - you can;t count the day you arrive or the day you depart). And it isn't clear what you will be doing before Rome.
(We would probably do Paris to Rome as a road trip for 8 or 9 days - but it depends on if you want to drive or are willing to pay the fee for dropping in another country.)
Separately, I would start building a zero-based budget now - so there are no surprises when you arrive. (You can easily get estimated hotel costs and exact sightseeing costs as well as estimated train and internal flight costs using a number of the online travel sites.)
Or - if you have a fixed budget now, let people know what it is and they may well have suggestions on how realistic it is and money-saving tips.
You don't say what your interests are - and it looks to me like you are really short-changing Paris - which IMHO for a first visit needs 3.5 days (5 nights).
As for Germany - not sure when you plan to go but much of Oktoberfest is actually in September - and hotel prices them will be sky high. Rothenburg is very cute - but while you are in Munich you should spend a couple of days seeing that and the castles in southern Bavaria.
I'm not at all sure that a rail pass is your best bet. For instance - there is a special pass for Bavaria that might cover that portion of the trip - but you really need to look into individual fares (at the web sites of the appropriate rail company for each country - do NOT look at RailEurope - they are a reseller and very expensive).
And I think flying to Crete is the only option. Not sure why you are going there. It may or may not be warm enough for beach in Oct - I don't have the details but would check.
For a start suggest you lay out your trip one day at a time - since what you have listed doesn't seem to take up 21 days (or however many you actually have on the ground - you can;t count the day you arrive or the day you depart). And it isn't clear what you will be doing before Rome.
(We would probably do Paris to Rome as a road trip for 8 or 9 days - but it depends on if you want to drive or are willing to pay the fee for dropping in another country.)
Separately, I would start building a zero-based budget now - so there are no surprises when you arrive. (You can easily get estimated hotel costs and exact sightseeing costs as well as estimated train and internal flight costs using a number of the online travel sites.)
Or - if you have a fixed budget now, let people know what it is and they may well have suggestions on how realistic it is and money-saving tips.
Jul 29th, 2014, 08:34 AM
#3
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, this is VERY early to start looking at ticket prices, a lot can change from now until October. Its an old debate; how soon to book airfare. Based on my limited experience, you won't see the best prices this far out. Still worth tracking, but a lot can change. Also, If you have flexibility on the exact dates you fly (different days of the week) and locations, you can really move the price around. Try a whole bunch of different scenarios on Kayak to get a feel for what costs might be. Take a look at costs for October 2014, just to get a feel for possible pricing closer to your actual travel dates.
And as nytraverer mentioned; get started on that budget. The Google Docs spreadsheet is a GREAT travel planning tool. When I plan, I have tabs for budget and schedule, to start with. By putting my budget in a spreadsheet, I can model out different scenarios to see how it works with my budget.
And as nytraverer mentioned; get started on that budget. The Google Docs spreadsheet is a GREAT travel planning tool. When I plan, I have tabs for budget and schedule, to start with. By putting my budget in a spreadsheet, I can model out different scenarios to see how it works with my budget.
Jul 29th, 2014, 08:47 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Something is wrong here. You did not find a price for October 2015 because those are not listed yet. Airlines only list 300-330 days out and October 2015 is more than a year away.
So did you just make a typo and are you leaving in 3 months?
Need more time in Paris.
What's the idea for Crete? That's not close and backtracking will be difficult. If you're looking for an island in the Mediterranean, you'd be as well off to go to Sicily and only have to backtrack to the US through Rome, which has more flights to US airports.
So did you just make a typo and are you leaving in 3 months?
Need more time in Paris.
What's the idea for Crete? That's not close and backtracking will be difficult. If you're looking for an island in the Mediterranean, you'd be as well off to go to Sicily and only have to backtrack to the US through Rome, which has more flights to US airports.
Jul 29th, 2014, 09:24 AM
#5
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are having difficulty figuring out the best and most cost effective way of traveling between these countries with our luggage. Rail passes looked to be 1000 USD per person (roughly>
There are far cheaper railpasses you should be looking at if any - the Eurail Select Saverpass valid in any 4 countries you wish - in your case France, Germany, Austria and Italy starts at five days of unlimited travel to be used any time over a two-month period -= cost $488 US $ p.p. and is first class, which IME of decades of European rail travel has definite benefits - a more relaxed ride, especially for folks with typically too much luggage.
Pack Light! That's crucial for rail travel without pain.
Use the five days to do your five long train trips - but it seems you have only two long train trips - Paris to Munich and Munich to Rome so your best bet will be with those to go to the national railways official sites and book, weeks in advance to get these limited in number discounted tickets - for Paris to Munich www.voyages-sncf.com - French Railways site and for Munich to Italy www.bahn.de/en - German Railways official site.
As for the Bavarian trains Munich to Rothenburg, etc like nytraveler says there is a bargain Bavarian Pass sold locally that for I think 27-29 euros two people can travel all day on regional trains and urban transports.
There are also overnight trains on each route that can be booked on the same sites.
For lots of great info on European trains check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
As for the
There are far cheaper railpasses you should be looking at if any - the Eurail Select Saverpass valid in any 4 countries you wish - in your case France, Germany, Austria and Italy starts at five days of unlimited travel to be used any time over a two-month period -= cost $488 US $ p.p. and is first class, which IME of decades of European rail travel has definite benefits - a more relaxed ride, especially for folks with typically too much luggage.
Pack Light! That's crucial for rail travel without pain.
Use the five days to do your five long train trips - but it seems you have only two long train trips - Paris to Munich and Munich to Rome so your best bet will be with those to go to the national railways official sites and book, weeks in advance to get these limited in number discounted tickets - for Paris to Munich www.voyages-sncf.com - French Railways site and for Munich to Italy www.bahn.de/en - German Railways official site.
As for the Bavarian trains Munich to Rothenburg, etc like nytraveler says there is a bargain Bavarian Pass sold locally that for I think 27-29 euros two people can travel all day on regional trains and urban transports.
There are also overnight trains on each route that can be booked on the same sites.
For lots of great info on European trains check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
As for the
Jul 29th, 2014, 09:43 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure that any of us can look into the future and predict that any one trip will be the trip of a lifetime. But let's say that you never get back to Europe. Would you want your one and only trip to involve spending lots of time to get from place to place? Seeing the landscape between locations is nice but it's not experiencing a city or town.
Going to Paris or a large island such as Crete will give you little experience of these places. It takes time to get your bearings in a new locale and many people who spend too little time someplace hate that place since they spent their entire day trying to figure out how to get to the sights.
>
I'm not clear why luggage would pose a problem when changing locations unless you're bringing steamer trunks. You're only going for 3 weeks so do not need more than a 19" or 21" roller bag each and a piece of hand luggage each.
You've planned 8 days for Paris, Rome, and Crete and 2 weeks for Bavaria. This is a lopsided itinerary. You need more time in major cities like Paris and Rome. Rather than Crete I would include Venice as it's beautiful, special, and accessible.
Going to Paris or a large island such as Crete will give you little experience of these places. It takes time to get your bearings in a new locale and many people who spend too little time someplace hate that place since they spent their entire day trying to figure out how to get to the sights.
>
I'm not clear why luggage would pose a problem when changing locations unless you're bringing steamer trunks. You're only going for 3 weeks so do not need more than a 19" or 21" roller bag each and a piece of hand luggage each.
You've planned 8 days for Paris, Rome, and Crete and 2 weeks for Bavaria. This is a lopsided itinerary. You need more time in major cities like Paris and Rome. Rather than Crete I would include Venice as it's beautiful, special, and accessible.
Jul 31st, 2014, 05:17 AM
#7
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes half the time spent in say Bavaria - this is also a dreary time weather-wise often in one of Europe's wettest climates and spend more time in Paris and Rome - four days is about right for the average tourist in each.
Maybe do a day trip from Paris - like to Versailles, Chartres or Reims for Champagne tastings! All easily done by train.
Maybe do a day trip from Paris - like to Versailles, Chartres or Reims for Champagne tastings! All easily done by train.
Jul 31st, 2014, 06:19 AM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"We wanted to see Paris for a day or two, then head to Munich for rotenburg (?) Dachau, Oktoberfest, and a castle.... Looking for idea's to help keep the dream a reality for us. We are a blue collar couple so this is a once in a lifetime trip for us."
I think it's terrific that you are doing a honeymoon in Europe! Fortunately you have lots of time to make sure your dreams translate into a smooth plan; if it were my honeymoon, I'd want to have a relaxed time without fussing over a bunch of details or worrying about the budget while you are there.
Before deciding on transport options, you need to give your itinerary some more serious thought. Your current plan has some fundamental problems.
1.) Oktoberfest means VERY expensive lodging costs.
2.) Rothenburg is 3 hours by train from Munich.
3.) You won't find much in the way of real castles in or near Munich - the "castles" in the Füssen area are really late 19th century palaces.
Tips:
1.) Do as nytraveler suggests - spend more time in Paris.
2.) Germany's Rhineland is very close to the French border and best for castles - there are 40 castles in the 40 mile stretch of river between Bingen and Koblenz alone; Marksburg and Rheinfels are easy to reach and can be toured. And you can sleep in castles in this area as well. If most of your once-in-a-lifetime trip will involve budget rooms, you should have a romantic splurge for 1-2 nights in Schoenburg Castle.
www.marksburg.de
http://www.st-goar.de/17-1-rheinfels-castle.html
http://www.hotel-schoenburg.com/
3.) And look into point-to-point rail tickets for France-Germany and day passes (not railpasses.) A Bayern (Bavaria) ticket day pass for two costs €27/day and is good for travel throughout Bavaria. The DB (German Railways) site offers great advance-purchase fares. Right now I can buy an advance-purchase "Europa-spezial" ticket for travel on 10/30/2014 for two adults on the high speed trains between Paris and Munich for USD $105.
Bavaria Ticket: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...a-ticket.shtml
Europa-Spezial tickets: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/pr...-spezial.shtml
Saver fare tickets for domestic trips in Germany: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/DEU/en/pr...ngs-fare.shtml
DB itinerary page: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
4.) Look into cheap AIRFARES for getting to Rome and Crete.
www.whichbudget.com
5.) Fly open-jaws - into Paris, OUT of somewhere else (Athens??) so you don't have to return to Paris.
I think it's terrific that you are doing a honeymoon in Europe! Fortunately you have lots of time to make sure your dreams translate into a smooth plan; if it were my honeymoon, I'd want to have a relaxed time without fussing over a bunch of details or worrying about the budget while you are there.
Before deciding on transport options, you need to give your itinerary some more serious thought. Your current plan has some fundamental problems.
1.) Oktoberfest means VERY expensive lodging costs.
2.) Rothenburg is 3 hours by train from Munich.
3.) You won't find much in the way of real castles in or near Munich - the "castles" in the Füssen area are really late 19th century palaces.
Tips:
1.) Do as nytraveler suggests - spend more time in Paris.
2.) Germany's Rhineland is very close to the French border and best for castles - there are 40 castles in the 40 mile stretch of river between Bingen and Koblenz alone; Marksburg and Rheinfels are easy to reach and can be toured. And you can sleep in castles in this area as well. If most of your once-in-a-lifetime trip will involve budget rooms, you should have a romantic splurge for 1-2 nights in Schoenburg Castle.
www.marksburg.de
http://www.st-goar.de/17-1-rheinfels-castle.html
http://www.hotel-schoenburg.com/
3.) And look into point-to-point rail tickets for France-Germany and day passes (not railpasses.) A Bayern (Bavaria) ticket day pass for two costs €27/day and is good for travel throughout Bavaria. The DB (German Railways) site offers great advance-purchase fares. Right now I can buy an advance-purchase "Europa-spezial" ticket for travel on 10/30/2014 for two adults on the high speed trains between Paris and Munich for USD $105.
Bavaria Ticket: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...a-ticket.shtml
Europa-Spezial tickets: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/pr...-spezial.shtml
Saver fare tickets for domestic trips in Germany: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/DEU/en/pr...ngs-fare.shtml
DB itinerary page: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
4.) Look into cheap AIRFARES for getting to Rome and Crete.
www.whichbudget.com
5.) Fly open-jaws - into Paris, OUT of somewhere else (Athens??) so you don't have to return to Paris.
Aug 1st, 2014, 12:51 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spend more time in Paris. You're really getting very little time there, since your first day is an arrival/get to hotel/check in/jet lag day. Paris is the number one tourism city in Europe (I think), and there is a good reason for that. It merits several more days than you have considered.
SS
SS
Aug 2nd, 2014, 08:34 AM
#11
I love Russ's ideas and I think that you would get a lot more from the Rhine than going to Munich at Oktoberfest time.
After the Rhine, how about going to somewhere like Barcelona [a complete change and has a beach] to finish the trip? or the swiss alps? you could spend a wonderful week in, say, the Bernese Oberland and them fly home from Geneva. [or even go back to Paris].
After the Rhine, how about going to somewhere like Barcelona [a complete change and has a beach] to finish the trip? or the swiss alps? you could spend a wonderful week in, say, the Bernese Oberland and them fly home from Geneva. [or even go back to Paris].
Aug 2nd, 2014, 09:08 AM
#12
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Something to consider:
Flying into a city because it's the cheapest is false economy...unless you WANT to go there. You will have to spend time and money getting from there to where you REALLY want to go.
~Liz
Flying into a city because it's the cheapest is false economy...unless you WANT to go there. You will have to spend time and money getting from there to where you REALLY want to go.
~Liz
Aug 2nd, 2014, 01:44 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love Russ's ideas and I think that you would get a lot more from the Rhine than going to Munich at Oktoberfest time.>
that Munich will be mobbed during Oktoberfest has IME proven to be kind of a myth - oh rooms may be hard to get because folks are drinking all day and night in the Theriessenwqiesse (sp?) but other places around the city may see less tourists than in say summer.
Plus Octoberfest whether you stay there much at all livens up the city - drunken groups wearing uniform colors parading thru the Marienplatz and downtown adds kind of a touch.
But it may be a great time to see the proper sights of Munich, which has much much more to offer IME than the Rhine during October, a potential wet weather time - it may rain in Munich too but Munich is must more enjoyable in the rain than the Rhine (which to me is heavily overrated anyway - the nearby Mosel which is way way more beautiful as a river valley than the Rhine IMO - but in October except for the ubiquitous wine festivals also not an optimal time for this area.
But Cochem is a picture postcard town and could be a great honeymoon sojourn - there is no comparable fairy-tale town on the Rhine. Cochem is at an extremely gorgeous part of the Mosel with vineyards carpeting the cliffs right opposite town and the town has a dreamy castle of its own topping a vienyard-clad hill right in the town center.
Stay in one of Cochem's cozy familuy-run geusthouses - down feather bedding - humongous breakfast and just relax. Do the Rhine as a one day trip from Cochem - take the K-D boats and that for most is enough - the Rhine towns are nice but IME not that intersting or cute really - the Rhine gorge is aloud area with train lines on each side of the river and main roads too plus lots noisy freighters, etc.
Cochem is church-mouse quiet at that time of year - a neat honeymoon sojourn.
that Munich will be mobbed during Oktoberfest has IME proven to be kind of a myth - oh rooms may be hard to get because folks are drinking all day and night in the Theriessenwqiesse (sp?) but other places around the city may see less tourists than in say summer.
Plus Octoberfest whether you stay there much at all livens up the city - drunken groups wearing uniform colors parading thru the Marienplatz and downtown adds kind of a touch.
But it may be a great time to see the proper sights of Munich, which has much much more to offer IME than the Rhine during October, a potential wet weather time - it may rain in Munich too but Munich is must more enjoyable in the rain than the Rhine (which to me is heavily overrated anyway - the nearby Mosel which is way way more beautiful as a river valley than the Rhine IMO - but in October except for the ubiquitous wine festivals also not an optimal time for this area.
But Cochem is a picture postcard town and could be a great honeymoon sojourn - there is no comparable fairy-tale town on the Rhine. Cochem is at an extremely gorgeous part of the Mosel with vineyards carpeting the cliffs right opposite town and the town has a dreamy castle of its own topping a vienyard-clad hill right in the town center.
Stay in one of Cochem's cozy familuy-run geusthouses - down feather bedding - humongous breakfast and just relax. Do the Rhine as a one day trip from Cochem - take the K-D boats and that for most is enough - the Rhine towns are nice but IME not that intersting or cute really - the Rhine gorge is aloud area with train lines on each side of the river and main roads too plus lots noisy freighters, etc.
Cochem is church-mouse quiet at that time of year - a neat honeymoon sojourn.
