It doesn't sound like you are spending any time in Rome so I'm wondering why you are flying in and out of there? You would make better use of your time flying in and out of places that are close to those places you actually want to see.

For example fly into Venice and see that before you get the van as you can't use a vehicle in Venice and it will cost you money to pay for 24hr parking in the big parking garage outside of Venice while you spend a few nights there.
You could then proceed to Lake Como, down to Portofino area and then back to Tuscany and end up flying out of Florence.
And I am not sure of the parking situation in Portofino, you should do some research on that.

Also driving in Florence itself is not advisable due to all the restricted zones, Rome is the same I think.

What sort of things are you interested in? Art, museums, food wine? Give us some ideas of your interests plus the amount of money you want to spend on hotels and we can give you some input.

Is it 12 actual days on the ground or does that include travel days? Don't forget to factor in how long it will take to drive from place to place, find your hotel and the parking and get settled etc.
Usual rule of thumb is three night stay equals two days time to sight-see, two nights equal one day etc.

Is this the first time to Italy for everyone?

Have you driven in Italy before or after an overnight flight? It would make more sense to start in Venice so you could recover from jet lag. Pick up the car as you leave Venice and head to the lakes. Perhaps fly home from Rome (or Pisa or Florence).

That's a lot of traveling and locations for 12 nights/11 days; either Umbria or Tuscany could easily take the 11 days.

Umbria/Tuscany are large regions so it's difficult to suggest lodging when we don't know where you'll base yourselves. I liked Pienza as it's a town with restaurants and there was no need to drive any place after dark on the windy roads.

When you say Como, do you mean Lake Como or Como City? The center lake area is so beautiful and there are plenty of towns to explore using the ferries to get from one place to another.

I'm also wondering why you're flying into and home from Rome when you're not spending time there and have to return to Rome for your flight home. You could easily leave from Milan or Venice.

You might want to rethink renting a van as the areas you mention can mostly be explored via train where you can relax and not have to worry about driving and find your way around. You have the rental costs to pay when you're in Venice and can't drive. Same with Como - you won't want to drive in the city and the small lake towns are very accessibly by train to Varenna.

Not only are trains easier, driving a van on tine country roads would be a job. You will probably want a car to see Umbria and Tuscany but otherwise, I would ditch the van.

Your itinerary is a bit ambitions for 11/12 days especially having to leave and return to Rome when you are not staying there. Consider eliminating at least one destination from your trip. If this is your first trip to Italy, I would keep Venice, Umbria and Tuscany. Perhaps eliminate one or more of the others.

Rome, Florence, more of rural Tuscany, Venice. Ypu do have enough time. Can you extend?

thanks for all the input...lots of things for us to think about that we hadn't before. My initial post had a typo though...it should have read that we would return to Rome for our last nightS...as in 3 we were going to schedule. I did not know about driving being such a challenge. The idea behind the van was to keep the 6 of us...and our gear...together and mobile. we had heard the trains were easy, but we want to stay with the van. Split 3 ways the cost is not too bad. We like the idea of driving around and exploring the countryside, villages, country roads at our own pace. only 2 of us have been to Italy before...my wife and i in 2005. We drove from Rome to Umbria then down to Sicily and out of Palermo back home...all went smooth. Rome is a consensus visit. Moderate priced hotels would be fine...not cheap and no high end. We do love a great dinner at night. We all love to drink wine and would love to explore the best of the wine region. I think the suggestions to cut back on one destination makes sense...just struggling with which one. My wife and I really want to explore the coastal area and the lakes region to the north...maybe stay to the west and north and leave Venice for another time?

Italian countryside roads are not so tiny that you can't drive a rental van on them. Where do people get these ideas?

Of course it will be cheaper if you drive the six of you.

Yes, leave Venice for another time. What I would recommend is that you go from Rome --- you will probably need to go to the airport to get the van -- and visit the Maremma area of Tuscany, and keep to the coast all the way to le Cinque Terre.

There are lovely towns and wine country are Magliano in Toscana/Scansano, and also around Bolgheri. Massa Marittima is a joy. So is much of the food along the untouristed coast. Go ask on Chowhound's Italy board for recommendations.

When you get to le Cinque Terre, you will need to book someplace to stay that has guaranteed private parking, and you must tell them in advance that you have a van. Personally, were it me, i would go to Sestri Levante and stay there, and visit le Cinque Terre by train. Everything will be so much easier, and Sestri Levante has marvelous, marvelous food and a glorious cafe scene.

From there you can drive to the Lakes -- but after that, I would ditch the van at Linate airport and take fast trains from Milano to Rome.

http://www.deliciousitaly.com/guide/central-italy-regions/tuscany-guide/tuscany-itineraries/item/243-maremma-hills-wine-route.html

http://maremma.guidatoscana.it/en/shopping-gastronomia/strada-del-vino.asp

http://www.giardinodeisugheri.it/activities.html

http://www.poderecarceroni.it/eng/itinerari_32.html

I'm not recommending any of the above hotels or agriturismi, because I know nothing about them as lodgings, but just have linked to them to give you information about a wine route through the Maremma.

For Rome, take a look on booking.com at Gens Julia and see if it works for your group.

PS: If you get intrigued by taking a wine route in the Maremma, post some questions on Frommer's or Slow Travel because there are people there who have done these routes.

I would hesitate to drive the van to the lakes as the roads are narrow and winding, especially up the eastern shore. I felt a small car barely fit on the road. And then there's where to park a van with the small parking spaces. You would need a hotel with parking facilities.

Now that you're spending 3 nights in Rome you only have 9 nights for the rest of your itinerary - less time to explore.

You now have Portofino, Venice, Lakes, Tuscany/Umbria for a few nights each which adds up to more then 9 nights. 9 nights = 8 days. That means with travel time you have 1 to 1.5 days in each location. Not much time.

Check driving times and then add 25% more time (it always takes longer since the driving calculations are based on going at a fair speed which is impossible to do all the time).

Suggest flying into Milan or Venice and exploring the lakes or Venice then rent the van and drive toward Rome, making 1 stop along the way.

"the best of the wine region" given that Italy is the world's largest wine producer (or second if Russia wants to slug it out every other year) it would be kinda hard to identify where you want to go. Any particular types of wine interest you?

this site is such an invaluable travel tool...when my wife...and our moms...travelled to Italy in 2005 to celebrate our moms' 80th birthdays we relied heavily on the input from so many helfpul folks on this site. In fact, in the end, i pretty much booked my trip from start to finish (lodging, sights, travel routes, restaurants, etc) based on wonderful tips from those who posted, including one bob the navigator who ended up being my personal, virtual tour guide...how would i have ever found the Villa Cheta in Maratea to overnight on the way to Sicily?? our moms still talk about Biaggio...the gorgeous Vince Gill look alike waiter dressed like James Bond! yeesh! As for the trip this summer, our main goals are to tour the wine country, explore the coast as well as the lake region. We will likely have to go in and out of Rome for cost reasons mainly. Portofino was suggested by a friend as a lovely scenic venue...but the hotels i have checked on there are really high priced. My wife and i have to get back home after the 12th day...but the others can stay longer on the back end and explore Rome for additional days. Maybe 3 nights in wine country, 3 nights on the coast, and 3 nights in the lake country before returning to Rome...your thoughts on that idea??

we are all red wine drinkers and i should say like the less beaten path when exploring. We love the charm of the small towns rather than the big cities, although we love Rome and will surely enjoy exploring there again. We stayed 2 nights in Orvieto in 2005 and loved it...day tripped out from there each day into the surrounding countryside. I would like to do that again from maybe a similar type base town in Tuscany...just to try something different. We have it in our head that the scenery along the coast heading north would be beautiful...overnighting somewhere overlooking the water...stolling the shops, dining and eating outside...then a change of scenery equally lovely by going into the mountains and lakes region before heading back south...this seems to be where we are headed. Goldenautumn...thanks for the great links.

Grazie---should I send you a bill-- LOL

Here are some suggetions for base locations that we have enjoyed:
1. Tuscany---San Quirico
2. The coast---Portovenere
3. The lakes---tough call with a van. Look at Albergo Lenno on the west shore, or a real sleeper, the Hotel Stella d'Italia on the north shore of Lago Lugano halfway between Lugano and Menaggio on Lago Como.

He's baaaaack!! the check is in the mail. i will get to work checking into all the wonderful suggestions and will report back with a follow up to all. thanks again!!

oldschool,

We stayed in Santa Margherita Ligure for our visit to the Ligurian Coast area and loved it. From there we hiked the Cinque Terre and took the very short boat trip over to Portofino for the day. Hotel Lauren was reasonable and our room had a nice big private terrace facing the sea. Not the most unique hotel, but great location. We stayed 3 nights and would have liked a third. Our trip was way back in 2000, so check for recent reviews.

Two other towns I have especially liked - Spello in Umbria and Montalcino in Tuscany. Did daytrips out from both.

We also stayed in Orvieto 3 nts and did day trips. I remains one of my most favorite.

I have not been to Portovenere or San Quirico - yet. But like you, I tend to really like the same places bob likes. I am taking many of his suggestions for my upcoming Sicily trip in April.

Buon viaggio!

The smaller towns in Italy have very narrow streets. Even with a car, it's best to park in a lot outside the town and walk in. But parking spaces are tight for small cars, let alone a van. That van is going to be hard to park. Maybe park in the bus slots?

In addition to San Quirico, look at Pienza. Both are well-located in the scenic Val d'Orcia.

Do you want to visit the Cinque Terre? If so, look for a town on the train line north of the CT. The towns in the CT are very small with no road along the coast; the parking options are few and mostly uphill. In addition to Santa Margherita Ligure, a great choice if you're especially interested in Portofino, there's Sestri Levante and Rapallo.

The road up to Bellagio on a peninsula in mid-Lake Como is also a bit perilous. But Menaggio would be OK with your van. Are you fixed on Lake Como? Lake Garda is farther south, less of a detour.

i am resurrecting this post as we are finalizing our plans for June travel...and i need some further advice. we are flying in and out of Rome. upon arrival we head up to Tuscany for 3 nights at either San Quirico or Montepulciano, the latter of which seems to offer more dining options...any suggestions on which town would be a better base to explore that region? Our next 3 nights take us to either Portovenere or Lirici to explore the coastal area. one of the couples really wants to visit Venice...the other 2 want to visit the lake Como area...is either of these two options more of a must see than the other? i know they are completely different...but if you had to choose? We end up back in Rome for the remainder of our trip before heading home. i don't think we have enouht time to do both...thank you!

let me see if i can do a better job of stating my last question. our group of 6 has time enough to visit one more destination. we have all agreed on rome, tuscany and the cinque terre. we are trying to decide between the Lake Como region or Venice as our last destination...that is our last dilemma...i hope.

Just the facts, please.
Are your flights booked? What dates? Why Rome on both ends?

Do you really plan to drive 4 hours plus after an all nite flight---if so, bad idea.

You say " Venice as our last destination"--does that mean you are flying home from there.

Just the facts---then we can help.

okay, just the facts. We fly in and out of Rome...it was the most affordable option. we arrive at 9 am on 6/22 and depart on 7/3 at 10 am. yes, the plan is to grab a rental van upon arrival and drive up to either san quirico or mantepulciano...this is just what we came up with. from there we are planning to head to the cinque terre. from there, we are trying to decide whether to go to Lake Como area and back to Rome or go to Venice and back to Rome. we don't mind driving...we actually enjoy it and make it a part of our journey. thanks Bob.

If you wanted to stay in lodging inside the historical center of Montepulciano, I'm not sure you'd be able to drive the van into the town, even with a guest pass to enter the limited traffic zone. Or, rather, it might be a challenge to drive OUT. I'm not sure the road we were instructed to use would accommodate a long wheelbase vehicle. Narrow road/archway, followed by a turn. But you could ask a hotel about that, as I'm sure they've seen all manner of vehicles in town.

Here are some photos:

http://www.naviquan.com/html/img/00002876/montepulciano_23b.jpg [one-way street heading out of town through the archway]

http://www.the-travel-italy-grapevine.com/images/Italy_Montepulciano.jpg [looking back after driving through the archway]

San Quirico is essentially flat, and I'm quite sure it also has a limited traffic zone. If you decide to stay in SQ, check with your lodging about the process for checking in.

If I had to choose between Montepulciano and SQ, I'd pick Montepulciano.

I won't get into the Lake Como v. Venice debate. Each destination has its fans. I'll just say I wouldn't go to Venice in high season, but I also wouldn't want to drive to mid-Lake Como on a summer weekend.

It is still a bad idea to get on the road after an overnight flight, particularly if you are flying more than 9 hours to get to Rome.

Bobthenavigator knows more about driving in Italy than anyone on this forum, and if he says it is a bad idea, it is. Dealing with a toll road with strange procedures in a strange language with a strange currency is not to be taken lightly.

It is probably too late to do Rome at the beginning of you trip, but it would have been a good idea.

Hi,

For reasons of logistics alone, I would probably opt for going to Venice. Go there immediately by train upon landing in Rome rather than driving to Montepuliciano jet lagged You can all snooze on the train, and since only one of the couples is really keen on Venice, the rest of you can have a no-pressure stay strolling around there, getting over your jet lag.

Once rested, I would rent a van out of Venice and drive to Lago di Como if you have time, and then drive to Lerici, then Montepulciano, Drop off the car in Chiusi or Orvieot and head into Rome by train for the final days of the trip.

If you all ultimately decide Lago di Como is more your group's desire than Venice, any chance you can talk your crowd into spending your first night on Lago Bracciano just to get some sleep? It's a 50 minute drive from FCO airport. I would recommend staying in the lovely antique town of Anguillara Sabazia on the shores of the lake.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g616175-Anguillara_Sabazia_Province_of_Rome_Lazio-Vacations.html

Next day, drive the 2 hours to Montepulciano. After that, drive to Lerici, and then to Lago di Como. I would drop off the van at Milan's Linate airport, take the 30'min airport bus to Milan Centrale station and take the fast train to Rome for the final leg of your trip.

"Bobthenavigator knows more about driving in Italy than anyone on this forum"

I have read a lot of his posts and think he is overly nervous about driving to many destinations in Italy, and underestimates many people who enjoy driving period, and is also too ready to recommend destinations that he thinks are parking friendly over destinations with better content that require more effort.

In general, I think it is a mistake to set up people as all-purpose authorities whose instructions should be blindly followed when it comes to travel, although I do recognze that some people are looking for that and some people are looking to be nominated for that kind of role.

Stevewith, I note that you are a very new member of the forum. Many of us have been following Bob's advice for years and after 8 trips to Italy, it rings true every time. I don't like to criticize my fellow FOdorites for their advice, especially when they have a great record of being helpful to all of us. So I will go back to offering constructive advice where I think I have some to offer.

My my---I did not want to create any conflict here.

For the record, we almost always drive in Italy and find it more convenient. The exceptions are in major cities--especially Florence. My concern about driving to Tuscany from FCO is one of safety, but I do not sleep well on flights. It all depends on the drivers abiliity to drive with little sleep.

As for which location, Jean was on the right track and we have stayed in both locations---Montepulciano for a week just 2 years ago. But, it is a town of 12,000 people and is not easy for driving or for walking. It is quite vertical and a real test for your legs. I would not try it in a large van---which you will need for a group of 6.

San Quirico is small, flat village of about 1500 people which is car free---you park around the town perimeter and walk to your hotel/B&B---typically no more than 200 meters. It is our favorite LOCATION in south Tuscany because of proximity to the entire area---from Montalcino to Montepulciano and even Siena. It has 2 good places to eat, but there are 5 more within a radius of 15 miles.

Steve, I totally agree that no one should be set up as an all purpose experts---ala Rick Steves. But, I do feel somewhat qualified to comment on Tuscany, and especially for the senior set. I am 76 now and have enjoyed 17 trips to Italia, but have also planned customized itineraries for almost 300 clients to Italy and beyond. I have made many mistakes in that time but have hopefully learned from them. I have been posting here for almost 17 years now and do have a track record. You seem quite knowledgable and are a welcome addition to this forum. I am sure you can establish your own record if you stick around long enough to gain credibility.
I surely hope that you do.

If you decide to go to Venice, wouldn't it be better to drop off the van there and train to Rome (your departure point)? Especially since you won't need a vehicle in either place.

Oldschool, Here are some pics from our 2011 trip that includes Lerici, Portovenere, Montepulcano, and San Quirico:

http://www.slowphotos.com/photo/showgallery.php?cat=4553

I am in the middle of planning our trip to Italy and am somewhat overwhelmed by the many things to see and do. We will be comming from the Lake Constance area in Germany on the 4th of June plan on driving down through St Gallen, Lichtenstein to the Lake Como Area where we are thinking of staying for a few nights. From there it gets confusing as we would like to see Cinque Terre, Tuscany and Venice before driving back to Munich on June 17. Is this enough time to do all that I have mentioned? Any timelines, routes and suggestions would be much appreciated. Also we are flexible with the car vs train out of Germany and could fly out of Venice. We love small simple accommodation and are wondering if we should prebook all our hotels or if we can find once we arrive? Thanks for any advice!

To the OP, I like stevewith's suggestion of going directly to Venice upon arrival in Rome, and then working your way back. I'd pick Venice because it's in danger of sinking and you don't know how long you'll be able to visit there. And sightseeing in Venice makes an easy introduction to Italy; no cars, trucks, vespas to deal with. Disclaimer: I love Venice; it's fantastically, magically beautiful.

To iriname, why don't you start your own thread? Click on "Start a new topic" in red at the top left of this page.

Thanks Mimar!!! Just new to this! Thread started!

Hmmm!
I am curious---Stevewith, do you happen to live in Italy?
That may account for your strong opinions.

nothing like a little spirited discussion....i appreicate the input from all of you. i am back at the drawing board. quick couple of questions...how long is the train ride to Venice? and do you pick up the train at FCO?

and bob, thanks for the great photos! and steve, the lake bracciano idea is a great option for lodging close to FCO to relax the first day. sitting on the deck having dinner and some wine overlooking the lake the first night does sound charming.

Rome to Venice trains leave hourly from Stazione Termini, Rome's main station. The trip takes 3 hours 40 minutes. To get to the Stazione Termini from the airport, take another train, the Leonardo Express. This train runs twice an hour and takes 30 minutes. You can buy tickets for both legs at the airport train office.

When you're ready to leave Venice, pick up a car/van at the Piazzale Roma, on the edge of Venice.

Bob, enjoyed the photos; we have been to several of those places and they brought back pleasant memories. Thanks!

Prego !