lvs

Hi all,

My husband and I are planning a trip for this July to Spain. We'll have about 20 days, give or take, and would like to include Madrid and its environs, the Rioja and Ribera del Duoro wine region, and finish off with a visit to Bilbao, San Sebastian and the Basque countryside and coast. We had a brief visit to San Sebastian and St. Jean de Luz many years ago but the rest of this region we have never visited before. We have traveled to other regions of Spain and really enjoyed it.

Our interests include wine, museums (we know Guggenheim and Prado are top attractions!), and pretty drives and exploring historic towns and cities. We plan to rent a car once we leave Madrid and are thinking about flying back to Madrid from Bilbao enroute to home to save the time of doing a circular trip (unless anyone thinks they have a good plan for that).

So, what I could use help with is how best to apportion the days, How many in Madrid?(including a day trip to Toledo), how many in Rioja? etc. What towns are best to stay in as bases so as not to have to change hotels every other day.

I appreciate your help and advice. Also, if any of you have stayed at hotels that you really enjoyed I'd love to hear about that too!

Thanks,
Linda

HappyTrvlr

Look at www.mariblesguides.com for lots of information. You can print out her pdf guides on each area. Try to spend some time in the Basque region in addition to Bilbao.

JulieVikmanis

Have you already downloaded Maribel's guides to the places you're thinking of going?

A year or two ago, we planned and executed a wonderful trip to Northern and Western Spain going through Rioja enroute, based in large part on material in these guides and information provided by posters on this forum, including Maribel. I'm planning a return this June, this time concentrating on Basque country and Rioja flying in and out of Madrid but we'll only have 15 nights. Since my own plan is still shaping up, I'm a bit reluctant to try to give you advice but I can tell you what I'm planning and why. It may help you--and those who read your post, may also comment on my plan. So, for what it's worth:
We will arrive in Madrid but jump in a rental car and drive immediately north to spend our first night in Leon, a major city with lovely cathedral that we've never seen. This will be our only one night stand. We'll go from there to the northern coast to stay 3 nights in Ribadasella, a little resort town we stayed in before and loved as we also loved the Villa Rosario there. While there we'll make day trips to other cute fishing villages along the Cantabrian coast. When we leave there, we'll drive east to spend 5 days in the Basque area--either all 5 in Getaria or 2 in the area adjacent to Bilbao and 3 in Hondarribia, to explore the area adjacent to San Sebastian. From there we intend to spend 3 nights in Logrono as our base for a return to Rioja wine country, skipping Ribera del Duero because, although we prefer their wines, the countryside is not as pretty nor the wineries as architecturally interesting as in Rioja. We'll then spend our final 3 nights in Madrid before flying home from there. 3 nights will be fine for us, because we've been there a couple of times before and aren't big time museum giers, but because you are, you will probably want to alot 5 nights, especially if you intend to incorporate a day trip to Toledo.

You mention nothing about the area west of Basque country, so I'm assuming you are not considering including it in your plans (be prepared, there are many here, including me, who would urge you to do so, though many will argue for time in the mountainous Picos de Europa and I'd argue for time on the coast.)

So assuming your large blocks are Madrid, Basque country, Rioja, Ribero del Duero, Bilbao and SanSebastian, I'd suggest that to spread 20 days/nights among them you consider Madrid 7 and include a second day trip to Segovia, the El Escorial and Valley of the Fallen, or Aranjuez as one as the day trip to Toledo, 2 days in Ribero del Duero, 3 days in Rioja, 3 days in Bilbao area and 5 in San Sebastian area. With that kind of time, however, you really could shave a day or so off several of these destinations and fit in a 3 day or so stint in Cantabria seeing the mountains and/or the lovely seashore.

I hope lots of others chime in. I can use the recommendations as well. Enjoy your time in Spain.

lvs

Thanks Julie for all of the suggestions. I know about Mirabel's guides and I guess I should read them all before finalizing the itinerary. The problem is everything sounds so great and you have to make choices!

I think it makes sense to get rid of Ribera del Duoro. We can just drink the wines at home! That frees up time. I hadn't purposefully eliminated the coast west of the Basque region, just didn't want to overextend the range. But I think I will consider that instead of the Ribera del Duoro. That would also give us the opportunity to do a circular route which could be helpful.

So how does this itinerary sound (corrections are welcome):

Pick up the car at the airport upon our arrival and drive directly to Aranjuez that you recommend and then spend the first night in Toledo. Not too stressful. The next day we could spend time in Toledo and continue on to Avila for another night (is that worth it or is there a better 2nd night stay?). Then, we could head north to the coast around Ribadasella (maybe spending a night first in Leon as you suggest). Maybe three nights in Ribadesella, exploring the coast and mountains on the Cantabrian coast as you recommend

Then continue east to the Basque region for another base for 5 days.

4 days in Rioja after that and then, enroute back to Madrid, spend a night in Segovia and explore the surrounding area as you recommended.

That way we would return to Madrid, and spend the last 4 days of our trip there. Without any day trips out of Madrid can we get a good feel of the city in 4 days? Also, should we drop off the car when we return to Madrid or would it be useful to have it in town and then drive ourselves to the airport to go home?

Thanks for your advice!
Linda

ribeirasacra

I do not know where you are flying from but be ware that jet lag takes its toll and you should ideally rest between flying and driving. There is nothing worse then having to drive in a strange county when you want your bed.
If, as you say you can drink wine at home, then why visit La Rioja region? I would suggests you stop off at Leon and Burgos on the way up. Maybe take in something of the Picos de Europa. When you arrive in Bilbao drop the car off as you will not need it in the city and because a liability. Fly back to Madrid. Or take the train.

lincasanova

Very good and easy first day.

Just another option for you or anyone leaving Barajas directly after long flight:

Alcalá de Henares (very quaint and gives you a real feel of "old Spain" in the historic section) is equally interesting, but I actually would sleep there (new parador) the first night, enjoy a stroll and nice meal, see the storks and maybe Cervantes' birthplace,( beautiful historic home) ..and then the next day stop in Aranjuez (Royal Palace and Boat Museum) on your way to Toledo.

lincasanova

P.S Ditch the car on return to Madrid

JulieVikmanis

I love the sound of Alcala de Henares that lincasanova suggests for your first night and then moving through Aranjuez and on to Toledo for your second night. After that you have many choices, but you might want to do a two night stay in Avila or Segovia which you could use as a base to take in the other and also El Escorial and Valley of the Fallen.

I don't think it's wise to try to see both Burgos and Leon (too much back tracking) and Leon seems to provide a better route--so I'd then stick with Leon and one night there. Then 3 on the Asturian/Cantabrian coast (happy to furnish more info about Ribadasella and Villa Rosario if you decide on this route) where you can see coast and some of the Picos de Europa mountains that ribeirascara suggests.

I disagree about giving up the car in Bilbao. You'll want it to explore the villages in the Basque area. I'll furnish you info about my hotel picks there and my reasoning when I get a bit more time later today. Rioja is a beautiful wine region (unlike Ribera del Duero, as I understand it a dry, less scenic area) and the wineries are stunning, so it's worth a visit even if you don't drink a drop while you're there. To stay in your time schedule though, I'd keep it at 3 days, then finish up with 4 in Madrid, enough to see a lot and visit their important museums--and yes, I'd drop the car off at entry to Madrid.
So I think that's
1 in Alcala de heneres
1 in Toledo
2 in Avila/Segovia
1 in Leon
3 in Ribadasella or surrounds
5 in Basque
3 in Rioja
4 in Madrid
The number of 1 and 2 night stops in the early part of the trip is a bit troubling. You could add a third night to Avila/Segovia and take in Salamanca, a beautiful university town with buildings of peach-colored stone, and drop it from Basque area, but as you do a bit more reading, you may get a feel for that.

mikelg

you can´t miss Lekeitio on the Basque coast...

Revulgo

I strongly recommend to do, at least, one stopover in Salamanca in between Avila and León.
http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/Herald...niversidad.jpg

kimhe

Great villages along the coast between San Sebastiám and Bilbao: Zarautz, Getaria, Zumaia, Mutriku, Lekeitio.

To really appreciate the fantastic food in San Sebastián, I recommend you take a look at the pintxos guide. If you do parts of either the classics route or the luxurious route (you can add Astelehena and La Cepa), I'm quite sure that you will have a food experience to remember for life:
http://www.todopintxos.com/home/home.php

lincasanova

second for a stop in salamanca... and try to squeeze in the Coca castle.. it is somewhere on your way it seems to me!

kimhe

In Madrid, I recommend that you visit the Reina Sofia museum. The second floor holds a display of art (paintings, photos, films, posters etc) related to two of the major civilizational break-downs of the 20th century, the Spanish Civil War and WWII.

When in the Basque Country, you might also want to visit the traditional administrative capital Guernica that was destroyed by German bombers in April 1937 (Picasso's painting is in Reina Sofia). Haven't been to the peace museum myself, but it might be worth a visit.
http://www.spanish-fiestas.com/art/Picasso-guernica.htm
http://www.peacemuseumguernica.org/e...te/homeeng.php

If you want a taste of another and higland part of the Basque Country, you could visit the Franciscan sanctuary of Arantzazu, dedicated to the much beloved Virgen del Arantzazu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_of_Arantzazu

In Hernani, just inland from San Sebastián, you'll find the museum of the perhaps most famous basque artist, the sculptor Eduardo Chillida.
http://www.museochillidaleku.com/index.php?id=1&L=3

If you like or don't like jazz/blues, you should be aware that the great annual jazz festival in San Sebastián runs between the 21st and 25th of July.

Revulgo

More tips for the Basque Country

Urdaibai, a scenic Biosphere Reserve
http://www.basquecountry-tourism.com/nat_urdaibai.php

Amazing grilled fish at Restaurant Kaia in Getaria
http://www.kaia-kaipe.com/principal.html

Laguardia, best base for the Rioja wine.
http://www.laguardia-alava.com/os/vi....asp?idioma=en

Idiazabal cheese hummmmmmm…
http://www.goierriturismo.com/en/gastronomia/

The Museo de Bellas Artes de Bilbao
http://www.museobilbao.com/in/la-coleccion.php

…and a Rolls Royce museum!
http://mugalari.wordpress.com/tag/torre-loizaga/

lvs

Thanks everyone for so much great information and links!! I see the trip shaping up. All the suggestions make sense and I think we'll follow Julie's itinerary.

So a few additioal questions:

I wonder if we should add one day back to Rioja to make it 4, since the region sounds so lovely. My husband is OK with increasing our trip by one day so I don't feel we shortchanged that location (we haven't purchased our flights yet). For those of you who have explored the Rioja does 4 days do it more justice, for driving around and of course tastings.

Time-wise, if we stay over in Avila rather than Segovia for the 2 nights, can we then drive on to Salamanca, spend most of the the next day there, and then continue on to Leon and not get in too late? If that can work we would see Leon the next day before driving on to Ribadasella which doesn't seem that far away.

Of our time in the Basque region, does it make sense to base ourselves in San Sebastian for 3 days and then move for the next 2 nights to St.Jean de Luz? Can we see much of the region like that or does anyone have a better idea?

For the Rioja, if we base ourselves in Laguardia will it be easy to get around the whole region, or should we split our days in 2 different locations?

Lastly, add additional hotel recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Linda

mikelg

San Sebastian is just a 15 minutes drive away from St Jean de Luz on the highway, I don´t think it´s worth moving.

Laguardia is a perfect spot for visiting all the Rioja region. Apart from the great www.maribelguides.com, you may want to take a look at my blog on the Basque area, mugalari.wordpress.com.

lvs

Thanks Mike for the link to our blog. I guess we'll use San Sebastian as our base for the whole time then.

Julie, regarding Villa Rosario, since you were there, which room(s) would you recommend? Is it worthwhile to pay up for the sea view?

Linda

jubilada

In addition to the above suggestions re: Basque region, I have recently received the Sunflower Landscapes Guide to the Basque country containing many very detailed walks, both long and short, as well as drives in this area. All have minute detail and are fascinating.

JulieVikmanis

This thread is generating some wonderful information.

To answer some of your questions:
We spent 3 days in the Rioja region, used part of one of them to drive from Madrid and did not stay as centrally as we might have but still felt like we saw a lot of the countryside and had time to see (but not tour) several of the wineries. You can surely use a 4th day there to advantage, but it would not be essential IMO.

I think you could see quite a bit of the beauty of Salamanca in a morning plus lunch and then drive on to Leon. Do a quick check of all the driving distances between your major stops on viamichelin.com and see if you are comfortable with the amount of drive time and the amount of time it leaves for sightseeing at your "enroute" stops.

I agree that you don't need/want to split time between San Sebastian and St. Jean de Luz, but rather should stay in one place for the entire time--or spend 3 days in San Sebastian and the other 2 further west in the Basque country. In planning our upcoming trip I'm going to let hotel availability make the decision for us. If I can get 5 days at the place I think I like in Getaria, then that's where we'll base. If not we'll spend 2 outside Bilbao and 3 in Hondarribia close to San Sebastian. This is always a tough decision. While it's great to be in a larger city for evening dining, it's often more difficult for parking and for getting started on day trips. We also like the charm of some of the smaller towns.

I'm sorry that I did not keep the number of the room we stayed in at the Villa Rosario. It was a large room on the second floor facing the bay/water. There was a couch in front of the window facing the bed and we kept the curtains closed most of the time, so we didn't get great enjoyment from the waterview from the bedroom, but I loved the view from the bathroom (I'm sort of a nut for bathroom with view). Wow. I see on their website that their prices really go up in July. For 10 euros more in June, the sea view is definitely worth it. For 35 euros more in July, you really have to think about it. The place itself, its position on the water, their restaurant for dinner and/or breakfast directly on the water is the big draw, so if you want to save a bit (to spend on a better bottle of wine with dinner) I don't think your experience there would be spoiled by not having a waterview room.

The hotels I'm looking at for our 5 days in Basque country are:
Saiaz in Getaria, Urgoiti outside of Bilbao, and Jaizibel in Hondarribia. I can't vouch for any of them since I've not yet stayed in any of them. But if we do (I'm still in the process of looking and booking) and you book any of them too, I'll be staying there first and can warn you if they turn out to be not as good as I'm hoping so that you might rebook elsewhere if they turn out really problematic. I'm going against the conventional wisdom and selecting Logrono as our base (sort of want a somewhat larger town there and love the tapas scene they have) so I can be of help on your hotel for Laguardia. In Leon, I'm going to try the NH Plaza Major. Good luck with your planning. I'm having great fun with mine and the advice on this thread has been most helpful. Thanks.

JulieVikmanis

Here's a link to my very long report about our trip to Spain in June 2008. It includes info on Villa Rosario, area surrounding Ribadasella, and Rioja area touring.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...hern-spain.cfm