immy1432

Hello! My husband and I have the opportunity to travel for about two months from early May to early July. We are 25-year-olds in good shape. Budget is flexible, but we will be DIYing with car rentals and public transportation (i.e. limited tours and excursions) to keep it in check.

Travel priorities include charming/beautiful “old towns”, castles, free walking tours, tasty local meals, vineyards and wine tasting, nature and day hikes, and anything with a view. We don’t mind being touristy as long as we’re doing something we inherently enjoy.

Non-priorities include cultureless/indiscernible nature (the Caribbean and Colorado are easier to get to), modern metropolitan areas, art museums, history/war museums, and nightlife (lively squares and cafés at night are great, but we don’t go bar hopping or clubbing).

I have done a ton of research looking into where we might enjoy, but I’d love feedback regarding destinations, travel pace (are we going to wear ourselves out?), feasibility, and sights.

Number of nights:
3 Dubrovnik - 2.5 days. Recovering from jetlag. Skipping Lokrum for Pakleni Islands—thoughts?
1 Mostar - Rent car in Dubrovnik.
2 Sarajevo - Interested in walking tour and Turkish area. Not interested in tunnel/bobsled.
3 Kotor - 2.5 days. Explore Perast, Lovcen National Park, and beach near Sveti Stefan.
2 Korcula Town - 1 full day. Return car in Dubrovnik. Take ferry, or bus if ferry is not running that day?
3 Hvar Town - 3 days. Trip to Pakleni Islands. Is this too long if we don’t want to rent a car on the island?
3 Split - 3 days. Daytrip to Trogir.
2 Plitvice Lakes - Rent car from Split. Visit park early on the second day.
4 Rovinj - Daytrips to hill towns, Pula, and Porec. Maybe visit vineyard and do truffle hunt.
3 Bovec - Visit Postonja cave and castle enroute. Explore Triglav and do Soca rafting trip.
4 Lake Bled - Detour to Berg Hochosterwitz enroute. Explore Bled and Lake Bohinj.
2 Ljubljana
1 Zagreb - Not very interested, honestly, but would like to return the car in Croatia.
4 Budapest - 3 full days.
3 Vienna - Daytrip to Melk and Wachau Valley? Worth doing if we are also spending time on the Mosel?
2 St. Gilgen - St. Gilgen and St. Wolfgang on day one, Hallstatt incl. mine tour on day two.
4 Salzburg - Daytrips to Werfen ice caves and Eagle’s Nest
2 Munich - Considering daytrip to Andechs-- thoughts?? One day to do beer garden and city tour within Munich.
3 Garmisch-Partenkirchen - Rent car in Munich. Zugspitze. Daytrips to Mittenwald and Fussen. Is this a good plan?
1 Rothenburg odT
3 Heidelberg - Heart is not set on Heidelberg although I do like it. Could do Wurzburg, or cut completely to use days elsewhere?
1 Oberwesel - Stay in Burghotel Auf Schoenburg
2 Cochem - Eltz Castle enroute. Visit vineyard. Perhaps cruise to Beilstein. Too similar to Wachau Valley?
Return car and fly out of Frankfurt


I really appreciate any feedback/alternate ideas. Flights aren’t set, so I’m open to any changes.

I should note that I have been to Vienna, Munich, and Heidelberg before, although my husband hasn’t. Some other nearby places we’ve been to are Venice, Lake Lucerne (would LOVE to revisit, but too expensive for this trip), Prague (would love to revisit and add Cesky Krumlov, but seems out of the way for this trip??), Berlin, and the Rhine Valley (Cologne-Koblenz-Mainz).

yorkshire

?1 Lokrum is not much to write home about. It is just a pleasant diversion while in Dubrovnik.
I feel you are not taking full advantage of the car. You only really need the car for Lovcen by this point, but have not allotted a lot of time to exploring the park.
?2 There are also catamarans in addition to the scenic bus to Korcula (operators are Krilo and Jadrolinija) Instead of just one night in Korcula, I'd consider adding that day elsewhere.
?3 I think I would need a rest by this point--certainly stay on the island three days.
That's it for my experience. Make sure you map all of the drive times to make sure you have enough time in each place.

PalenQ

for the rail part in Hungary and Austria for long-distance tickets check the national rail sights for discounted ducats and www.westbahn.com for cheap flat-fare fares on Vienna-Salzburg route.

For general info on rail travel also check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Your itinerary is ambitious but with a car doable - some will say too ambitious but you're young- I drove thru the Balkans when about that age with about the same pace.

2 Cochem - Eltz Castle enroute. Visit vineyard. Perhaps cruise to Beilstein. Too similar to Wachau Valley?>

The Beilstein cruise is kind of similar but IMO even more beautiful- the river itself and its gorge-like banks. That said you may consider driving up that stretch of valley and to Bernkastle - hitting wineries en route - another cute wine town-if into renting bikes bike up to Beilstein and back-rentals abound in Cochem and some hotels provide them.

Traben-Trarbach and Zell are two other gorgeous wine towns to drive to from Cochem

If not into Heidelberg that much spend a whole day on the Rhine - even taking the popular K-D boats downstream from Rudesheim/Bingen to Boppard. Marksburg Castle is along with Burg Eltz one of only two intact medieval castles on either the Rhine or Mosel.

If into a cute small village on a really scenic portion of the Mosel check out Haus Lipmann- many rave reviews here in the past- easy to drive to and a rural feeling -surrounded by vineyards:

http://www.hotel-haus-lipmann.com/

Andrew

The Balkans itinerary looks fine. It's a shame you have to loop between Kotor, Dubrovnik, Mostar, and Sarajevo and back, but I can't think of a more optimal way to do it - unless you could fly into Sarajevo or something, then take the train to Mostar and a bus to Dubrovnik, then rent the car, but I realize that may not be practical, either.

Make sure you buy a vignette sticker for driving in Slovenia, as soon as (or just before) you drive across the border! Otherwise, you risk a steep fine. Buy at a gas station. Slovenia uses the vignette as a sort of all-in-one toll for their highways. Croatia uses actual tolls on their highways.

You may not really need four nights at Lake Bled, if you will otherwise be exploring Triglav prior. It's a nice area, but the lake isn't huge - and it's a developed resort. I'm sure you could find lots of hiking excursions, etc. but I would dig up info ahead of time. Do drive the scenic detour from Bled to Ljubljana over the hills via Kropa and Jamnik and into Skofja Loka - that part is really scenic and pretty. Skofja Loka is a neat little town, too, worth a look. The Logarska Dolina region is supposed to be very beautiful too - haven't had a chance to explore it.

Ptuj is the oldest old town in Slovenia, I think - you could check it out on the way (a detour though) on the way to Zagreb. Pretty little town, not touristy at all!

If you aren't interested in Zagreb, you could spend the final night in the nearby town of Samobor, to the west of the city. It's a charming little town. Zagreb isn't my favorite but is worth a few hours to explore, though, and I don't think you would regret a night there.

dreamon

Could you return the car in Varazdin instead of Zagreb? There appear to be trains from there to Budapest.

Looks like a great trip. We, too, travelled at that sort of pace in our 20's and had a brilliant time. I wouldn't book it all in advance, to allow some flexibility.

immy1432

@yorkshire Thanks for the insight about Lokrum. Interesting point about the car. I suppose we could nix it and do Bosnia and Montenegro with public transportation. I guess I liked the idea of a car because it allowed us to see Lovcen and gave us a little extra flexibility. Also, there doesn’t seem to be a direct bus between Sarajevo and Kotor (either need to connect in Podgorica or Dubrovnik?), so that’s a bit of a bummer. It’s definitely something worth considering though, as I don't think we really have enough time to go off the beaten path. I think you’re right that if we run out of things to do on day three of Hvar then we can take a nice long nap. Maybe we’ll cut Korcula, but it seems to flow nicely. I really appreciate your response. Much to consider!

immy1432

@PalenQ Thanks for the train ticket advice. You got me really excited about the last leg of the trip. Maybe we can decide on biking to Beilstein vs driving to the wineries based on how we’re feeling when we get to that point. I pinned the towns you mentioned on Google Maps so I can remember. They look adorable! Same with Haus Lipmann. How is parking in these towns? Doable? I really appreciate the tips! Rhine instead of Heidelberg is something I’ll look into. Thanks for the suggestion!

kja

I envy your time in the area! Some observartions on your time in Croatia and other parts of the former Yugoslavia:

- Rather than renting a car in Dubrovnik to drive to Mostar, you might consider going by public transportation – it is easy and convenient.
- 2 nights in Sarajevo strikes me as a bit too little, even if you aren’t interested in the Tunel or bobsled. But it depends, of course, on your priorities
- Another thought: Given your proposed destinations, consider flying into Sarajevo (3 nights), train to Mostar (1 night), bus to Dubrovnik (2 nights). From there, you can proceed to rent a car for Kotor, return the car in Dubrovnik, and move on WITHOUT a car to Korcula (1 night), on to Hvar…. Just a thought based on what I did, and which worked exceedingly well for me.

FWIW, I think your planned time in Budapest, Vienna, and Munich are on the short-side, but it depends on your interests, and I can’t speak to most of the other destinations you mention with sufficient experience to render any advice.

I really enjoyed a few hours on Lokrum and Korcula was one of my personal favorites in the area…. to each his/her own!

immy1432

@Andrew and @kja
I actually think flying into Sarajevo is a brilliant idea! Thanks for the suggestion. If I can find decent airfare, we’ll fly into Sarajevo (3 nights), train to Mostar (1 night), bus to Dubrovnik and drive to Kotor (3 nights), and return car in Dubrovnik (2 nights) before setting off on the islands. There looks to be a 6:51 train and an 18:57 train. Does anyone know if these both running in May 2017? We’d need the morning train, otherwise we’d probably have to do 2 nights in Sarajevo and 2 nights in Mostar. Is getbybus.com where I should be looking for the bus timetables and tickets?
The flight options seem a little more limited to Sarajevo than to Dubrovnik (Lufthansa has a decent one with a 1h20m connection in Munich. Maybe possible for connecting non-Schengen to non-Schengen?) If I can’t find decent airfare, I think my original plan will be the backup plan. In this case, I thought maybe we could stop at the monument in Tjentiste and the Orthodox Church (and lunch) in Trebinje to break up the drive from Sarajevo to Kotor a little bit. Any thoughts? Does anyone have advice whether we should take the M6/P11 or the R429? They look to be about the same drive time, but I’m wondering if one route is more scenic, has better roads, has quicker border control, etc. Would Herceg Novi worth a stop? I've read mixed things.

immy1432

@Andrew Thanks for the toll info. Your scenic drive and town suggestions are duly noted! Perfect! I agree that we could likely stay one less night in Bled and still do all the things we were hoping to do. However, I’m wondering if we should keep it as a recuperation day. Is it a pleasant/peaceful enough place to sort of “do nothing” for a day? Or is it maybe a little too resorty for that?
@Andrew and @dreamon I‘m thinking we’ll stick with Zagreb, just for the ease of it. We certainly don’t mind poking around for a night.
@kja Our time in those cities is probably a bit short. We just don’t tend to enjoy big cities very much. Our thinking goes: why spend a day in the English Garden when we could be in the Alps? I guess you’re right that it all comes down to interests. If we misjudged our time or fall in love with a place (which happened to us in Seville!-- We spent five nights there, but could have spent forever!), then I guess we’ll just have to come back! I do appreciate your input though, as I certainly asked for it!
I'm honestly so thankful for all the advice, help, and encouragement you guys have given. This is such a neat community. Whether we take the suggestion or not, every comment allows us to learn our options and reflect on what's important to us. Y'all are the best.

Andrew

You might have better luck buying a separate ticket to Sarajevo from some other city you fly into in Europe. I know that could mean a long layover somewhere to give yourself enough time to make the connection - and it may not be practical at all. Sarajevo doesn't have the flight options that the other cities do. But it's worth looking in to.

If you can't take the train from Sarajevo to Mostar, take a bus - there are more of them per day than trains as a I recall. I've never taken either, but I prefer trains and have driven the route the train takes, and it is breathtaking scenery, highly regarded by train buffs. But if the train isn't going for some reason, the bus is a good fallback. I don't recall the best site for bus tickets anymore; you might also try www.balkanviator.com/en/bus .

Looking at a Google Map now, I think I took the R429 from Kotor to Trebinje in 2015. I don't remember why, but the drive was fine. The old stone bridge in Trebinje is really amazing (it was moved piece by piece during the Tito years into town where it is now; the region where it had been built was flooded for a hydro dam or something). You can see the bridge from the hill where the Orthodox Church is, too.

Then I took the M6/M17 to Mostar. Consider a stop in the town of Blagaj to see the Dervish Monastery. On the drive from Mostar to Sarajevo (which as noted above is really beautiful), I stopped also in the village of Konjic (another nice bridge but not old like the one in Trebinje. Hint: I like bridges. The one in Mostar is the best of them all here.)

In preparing for my visit to Sarajevo, I watched some documentaries and footage on YouTube about the Bosnian war. There's also some footage from the war showing Mostar under siege and people being shot at as they try to run across the bridge that now gets mostly tourists. And for Sarajevo and World War I stuff, I read the great (not thick) book "The Trigger: Hunting the Assassin Who Brought the World to War" by Tim Butcher. It retraces the steps of assassin Gavrilo Princip who famously triggered the start of World War I by murdering Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo. After reading the book, I had a much greater understanding of the events that took place, as I walked over the ground in Sarajevo, and the book helped me understand the country a bit better, too.

Andrew

The scenery around the Bay of Kotor is really stunning. I stopped many times to take pictures. I don't recall Herceg Novi being an intriguing stop (I drove through it), but the town of Perast (already on your list - I would consider it as a place to stay) is really nice. There is a ferry that crosses the bay at its narrow point at Herceg Novi, though, which could save you a lot of driving time if you are on the other side of Kotor.

I took a scenic drive from Kotor to Cetinje over the mountains via Njeguši - this twisty drive with many hairpin turns (at least in the beginning) gives you stunning views back on Kotor and the bay below.

Andrew

I don't think it would be a mistake to spend an extra day in Bled. But I would make a list of things to do in the area if you get bored - nearby towns and hikes, etc. But if you wind up feeling like relaxing there instead of making trips out, you can. I didn't fall in love with the town of Bled itself, though the lake is eye-popping of course and unforgettable with that church in the middle. It's a practical and convenient place to base yourself in the area.

kja

BTW, if you're likely to have jet lag when in Sarajevo, you might want even one more night there. And yes, consider a bus to Mostar if the train doesn't work for you. You can get a preliminary sense of your transportation options, and some ideas about which companies offer them, on rome2rio.com

PalenQ

They look adorable! Same with Haus Lipmann. How is parking in these towns? Doable?>

Yes IME -you may have to park on edge of towns and walk in but they are not huge cities, etc. Not a problem like in big cities.

dugi_otok

Number of nights:
3 Dubrovnik
1 Mostar - Rent car in Dubrovnik.
2 Sarajevo
3 Kotor
2 Korcula Town - Return car in Dubrovnik
3 Hvar Town
2 Plitvice Lakes - Rent car in Split.
4 Rovinj
3 Bovec
3 Lake Bled (was 4)
2 Ljubljana
1 Zagreb -Return the car in Zagreb.
4 Budapest-(train Zagreb to Budapest)
3 Vienna - (train Budapest to Vienna)
2 Munich (non stop train Vienna to Munich)
3 Garmisch-Partenkirchen- Rent car in Munich
3 Salzburg (was 4)
2 St. Gilgen
2 Cesky Krumlov (new)
2 Regensburg (or Nuremburg) (new)
1 Rothenburg odT
0 Heidelberg (was 3)
2 Cochem (or Beilstein or Zell)-Moselle Valley
2 Oberwesel (was 1)-Rhine Valley
Return car and fly out of Frankfurt

PalenQ

2 St. Gilgen>

St Wolfgang is another great base that may even be nicer than St Gilgen. Ride the steam train up the mountain from town and maybe walk back down - I did an was exhilarating.

immy1432

Funny turn of events: Instead of our planned sabbatical, my husband has been given the opportunity to work in India for a few months, and we decided to accept. I'm so thankful for all the advice you guys have shared, and I will certainly reference this thread at a later date. This trip will happen someday (at least a variation of it!), but for now, hopefully other people can make use of all this awesome info. Heading to the Asia forums now!

PalenQ

Wow - a whole different ballgame India that is - been there twice and in summer it is hot - and there are literally people everywhere- you have to have a good tolerance for driving poverty or stay isolated in a cacoon in luxury hotels.

Good Luck!