1st time European Experience- Ireland, UK, Belgium, Netherlands, or Other?
Apr 29th, 2015, 02:36 PM
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1st time European Experience- Ireland, UK, Belgium, Netherlands, or Other?
Greetings!
My partner and I are planning our first European trip for Fall 2016. We're thinking 21 days but are flexible. We expect this to be our first of many international trips, so this won't be a whirlwind tour. We are frugal travelers with a rough budget of $6,000- but with no kids, no mortgage and no debts, we have the option to spend additional time/money on experiences we feel are worthwhile.
I think a good introduction to European travel would be Ireland, UK, Belgium, or Netherlands– or a combination of some/all. Please let me know if I'm headed in the totally wrong direction! We anticipate seeing/staying in major cities, but love to experience countryside as well. With that said- what are your ideas for a 21-day trip at a slow-moderate pace, using mostly train travel?
Our travel interests:
Scenic places, wine/beer, food (seafood!) outdoor activities, unusual accommodations, cultural experiences, historical sites, natural wonders, famous landmarks, beaches, architecture, music, boats, local culture.
Not of interest:
Shopping, Museums with long lines, luxury, touristy-trap things that locals laugh at, group bus tours, expensive restaurants, souvenir shops.
Note: We would prefer to use public transportation for most of our trip, but I understand that more rural locations may require a car rental. I'm open to this, if not ridiculously expensive.
Looking forward to reading everyone's ideas! Thank you very much for your advice!!
My partner and I are planning our first European trip for Fall 2016. We're thinking 21 days but are flexible. We expect this to be our first of many international trips, so this won't be a whirlwind tour. We are frugal travelers with a rough budget of $6,000- but with no kids, no mortgage and no debts, we have the option to spend additional time/money on experiences we feel are worthwhile.
I think a good introduction to European travel would be Ireland, UK, Belgium, or Netherlands– or a combination of some/all. Please let me know if I'm headed in the totally wrong direction! We anticipate seeing/staying in major cities, but love to experience countryside as well. With that said- what are your ideas for a 21-day trip at a slow-moderate pace, using mostly train travel?
Our travel interests:
Scenic places, wine/beer, food (seafood!) outdoor activities, unusual accommodations, cultural experiences, historical sites, natural wonders, famous landmarks, beaches, architecture, music, boats, local culture.
Not of interest:
Shopping, Museums with long lines, luxury, touristy-trap things that locals laugh at, group bus tours, expensive restaurants, souvenir shops.
Note: We would prefer to use public transportation for most of our trip, but I understand that more rural locations may require a car rental. I'm open to this, if not ridiculously expensive.
Looking forward to reading everyone's ideas! Thank you very much for your advice!!
Apr 29th, 2015, 03:14 PM
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To give Ireland a fair go you need 10 days, same for Britain and if on public transport (Bus better than Train for Ireland) you are going to experience tour bus's to get to key sights.
First thing might be to check out some Good, Informative, unbiased guide books (3 strikes on Rick Steves using those criteria) Check out some trip reports on the forums and some of the many itinerary Q&A's also have a look at the sites offered by the Coach tour holidays even though you won't use the tours they tend to stop at the most popular locations,
First thing might be to check out some Good, Informative, unbiased guide books (3 strikes on Rick Steves using those criteria) Check out some trip reports on the forums and some of the many itinerary Q&A's also have a look at the sites offered by the Coach tour holidays even though you won't use the tours they tend to stop at the most popular locations,
Apr 29th, 2015, 04:03 PM
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Well, some narrowing down of a nightly spend and what means "expensive" to you would help - like what's an expensive meal in $?
Why Netherlands/Belgium as part or the concentration of a first Europe trip, especially in autumn (not tulip time)?
Evidently you're seeking Seattle/Portland conditions for the wet weather?
Want a cultural experience - go see a soccer game (read a chapter or two from "How Soccer Explains the World"). And when the Europeans (on this board or in Europe) start whinging about "soccer" remind them that the English (claim to have) invented the game and also created the term soccer to distinguish asSOCiation football from Rugby football.
I'm thinking that no part of UK, Ireland, Belgium or Netherlands will be suitable for a beach vacation in September (unless you're grading on the British curve where 20C weather is warm and 25C is hot).
Why Netherlands/Belgium as part or the concentration of a first Europe trip, especially in autumn (not tulip time)?
Evidently you're seeking Seattle/Portland conditions for the wet weather?
Want a cultural experience - go see a soccer game (read a chapter or two from "How Soccer Explains the World"). And when the Europeans (on this board or in Europe) start whinging about "soccer" remind them that the English (claim to have) invented the game and also created the term soccer to distinguish asSOCiation football from Rugby football.
I'm thinking that no part of UK, Ireland, Belgium or Netherlands will be suitable for a beach vacation in September (unless you're grading on the British curve where 20C weather is warm and 25C is hot).
Apr 29th, 2015, 05:03 PM
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Annie:
I'd suggest keeping it compact and doable (much more enjoyable that way)...Ireland, UK and Belgium/Netherlands. 9 days just for the South of Ireland, 7 days London/Cotswolds, 4 days Netherlands OR Belgium (two travel days, going and coming). Anything tighter than that would defeat your aim of slow, moderate pace!(being able to extend an extra day would help on the travel from home and back)
Sounds like you two are aiming to do a lifetime of travel...plenty of time to see a good chunk of the planet. Go for it!
I'll post some pix for you to familiarize yourselves with these destinations. Maybe you'll get a few workable ideas from them.
Keep on travelin', keep on truckin'...!
stu
I'd suggest keeping it compact and doable (much more enjoyable that way)...Ireland, UK and Belgium/Netherlands. 9 days just for the South of Ireland, 7 days London/Cotswolds, 4 days Netherlands OR Belgium (two travel days, going and coming). Anything tighter than that would defeat your aim of slow, moderate pace!(being able to extend an extra day would help on the travel from home and back)
Sounds like you two are aiming to do a lifetime of travel...plenty of time to see a good chunk of the planet. Go for it!
I'll post some pix for you to familiarize yourselves with these destinations. Maybe you'll get a few workable ideas from them.
Keep on travelin', keep on truckin'...!
stu
Apr 29th, 2015, 05:23 PM
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Annie...for thee!
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...TxhamXwtCKoQE#
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...Ireland199602#
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...NorthenIreland
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...NorthenIreland
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...russelsAntwerp
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...IjijtPg8r6L6QE
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...TxhamXwtCKoQE#
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...Ireland199602#
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...NorthenIreland
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...NorthenIreland
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...russelsAntwerp
https://picasaweb.google.com/stuartt...IjijtPg8r6L6QE
Apr 29th, 2015, 05:52 PM
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If you're really looking to do mostly train travel, I might suggest saving Ireland for a separate trip.
Then you could look at two full weeks in the UK - base in London for a bit, great small city/village/countryside day trips from there, and then take the train from London to Brussels and spend the final week split between Brussels and Amsterdam (with a day trip to countryside or second city in either country).
Or if you're eager to include a fourth country, you can structure a week in London and surrounding day trips, train to Paris and the same, and then Brussels/Amsterdam. These cities are all well connected by train, so getting between them is easy, and they have plenty of day trip options from each to see some different sides of each country.
Then you could look at two full weeks in the UK - base in London for a bit, great small city/village/countryside day trips from there, and then take the train from London to Brussels and spend the final week split between Brussels and Amsterdam (with a day trip to countryside or second city in either country).
Or if you're eager to include a fourth country, you can structure a week in London and surrounding day trips, train to Paris and the same, and then Brussels/Amsterdam. These cities are all well connected by train, so getting between them is easy, and they have plenty of day trip options from each to see some different sides of each country.
Apr 29th, 2015, 11:26 PM
#8
wine/beer, well three of the countries (ie not Netherlands) have some very interesting beers but only the UK has any wine production of serious interest and nearly all of that in the south. You will find wine on restaurant/bar lists and it will be good if exensive.
Beaches boats, etc are probably best in Uk and Ireland, Belgium has a coast but mainly flat and dull while the Netherlands has some very interesting little harbours and the famous "Dutch Barge" now turned into luxury homes. Basically, if you like your water/land flat you'll love the Netherlands.
Belgium really only gets very interesting down in the Ardennes with castles and hidden gorges surrounded by trees, up in the north there are some pretty pretty old towns like Bruges.
In 21 days I'd do something along the lines of 6 days London, 5 days York, 6 days Amsterdam and 4 days Strasbourg (which is far more interesting than Belgium), but given your wishes you probably should fit in Ireland instead.
Beaches boats, etc are probably best in Uk and Ireland, Belgium has a coast but mainly flat and dull while the Netherlands has some very interesting little harbours and the famous "Dutch Barge" now turned into luxury homes. Basically, if you like your water/land flat you'll love the Netherlands.
Belgium really only gets very interesting down in the Ardennes with castles and hidden gorges surrounded by trees, up in the north there are some pretty pretty old towns like Bruges.
In 21 days I'd do something along the lines of 6 days London, 5 days York, 6 days Amsterdam and 4 days Strasbourg (which is far more interesting than Belgium), but given your wishes you probably should fit in Ireland instead.
Apr 30th, 2015, 01:03 PM
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Thank you for all the advice! Especially Stu, your pictures were great.
I will definitely save Ireland for it's own trip! This applies to France too.
I was thinking Fall in hopes of less crowds and cheaper flights/lodging. I also don't mind damp, chilly weather. I actually love the Pacific Northwest. I'm fortunate enough to spend summers in the beautiful seaside town of Gloucester, Massachusetts, so I get my fill of warm, sunny weather at home. BUT- I'd love to see the tulips in Netherlands. Maybe I should be considering May.
Thank you for mentioning Strasbourg! I hadn't thought of it. I will keep it in the back of my mind.
We would love to visit St. Andrews Links. Maybe we should begin our trip by flying into Edinburgh, spend 6 nights between Edinburgh, St. Andrews, and Glasgow.Then we could take the Caledonian Sleeper train to London, I've heard it's a unique experience! Spend 6-7 nights in London & outlying areas. 3 nights Brussels/Bruges, 2-3 nights Amsterdam. And finally back to Boston!
Thoughts?
I will definitely save Ireland for it's own trip! This applies to France too.
I was thinking Fall in hopes of less crowds and cheaper flights/lodging. I also don't mind damp, chilly weather. I actually love the Pacific Northwest. I'm fortunate enough to spend summers in the beautiful seaside town of Gloucester, Massachusetts, so I get my fill of warm, sunny weather at home. BUT- I'd love to see the tulips in Netherlands. Maybe I should be considering May.
Thank you for mentioning Strasbourg! I hadn't thought of it. I will keep it in the back of my mind.
We would love to visit St. Andrews Links. Maybe we should begin our trip by flying into Edinburgh, spend 6 nights between Edinburgh, St. Andrews, and Glasgow.Then we could take the Caledonian Sleeper train to London, I've heard it's a unique experience! Spend 6-7 nights in London & outlying areas. 3 nights Brussels/Bruges, 2-3 nights Amsterdam. And finally back to Boston!
Thoughts?
Apr 30th, 2015, 01:15 PM
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Remember that when you say three nights somewhere, that is only 2 full days. And do you only want a day or two in Amsterdam? I think you continue to be in danger of over-extending yourselves. When in doubt, cut a destination.
Apr 30th, 2015, 02:02 PM
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With that said- what are your ideas for a 21-day trip at a slow-moderate pace, using mostly train travel?>
Yes yes yes if goingmainly to the big tourist meccas you've been dreaming about seeing all your lives then cars are rather useless in many European metroplises - wide areas are off-limits to private cars and parking can be expensive and problematic at times - hotels may not offer parking or charge a lot for it if they do.
so take the train city center to city center - at speeds of up to nealry 200 mph in many countries.
For loads of great info on planning a European trail journey here are some of my favorite info-laden sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free online European Planning & Rail Guide for loads of suggested itineraries in each country by rail.
Yes yes yes if goingmainly to the big tourist meccas you've been dreaming about seeing all your lives then cars are rather useless in many European metroplises - wide areas are off-limits to private cars and parking can be expensive and problematic at times - hotels may not offer parking or charge a lot for it if they do.
so take the train city center to city center - at speeds of up to nealry 200 mph in many countries.
For loads of great info on planning a European trail journey here are some of my favorite info-laden sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free online European Planning & Rail Guide for loads of suggested itineraries in each country by rail.
Apr 30th, 2015, 02:58 PM
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BUT- I'd love to see the tulips in Netherlands. Maybe I should be considering May>
May be too late some years for tulips at their peak I believe - but the Keukenhof Gardens are a delight in April and May - THE Dutch horticultural industry show-off show!
http://www.keukenhof.nl/en/
https://www.google.com/search?q=keuk...w=1455&bih=977
Keukenhof is easy to get to from Amsterdam - take a train to Leiden and then constant shuttle buses to and fro the lovely pulchritiduinous flower show!
May be too late some years for tulips at their peak I believe - but the Keukenhof Gardens are a delight in April and May - THE Dutch horticultural industry show-off show!
http://www.keukenhof.nl/en/
https://www.google.com/search?q=keuk...w=1455&bih=977
Keukenhof is easy to get to from Amsterdam - take a train to Leiden and then constant shuttle buses to and fro the lovely pulchritiduinous flower show!
Apr 30th, 2015, 06:35 PM
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Gloucester (Glostah!), Massacusetts? I just had to respond. Native Quincy-ite here, born abd bred. Emerson College, BU, been living in California since '57...but still consider Mass. my home. Rockport?
Spent many a lovely summer weekend there where my mother-in-law was a recognized water-colorist. You know, "Motif #1" and all that jazz!
I wanna lobstah roll...NOW!!
Spent many a lovely summer weekend there where my mother-in-law was a recognized water-colorist. You know, "Motif #1" and all that jazz!
I wanna lobstah roll...NOW!!
May 5th, 2015, 01:28 PM
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$6,000 not including airfare. Is this unrealistic? Keep in mind:
-In Amsterdam I will be staying with a friend for free.
-We are not big spenders (i.e. souvenirs, clothing, expensive meals.)
-Hoping to do AirBNB type of accommodations or budget hotels.
-Cook at home some nights plus snacks/street food for light breakfasts and lunch.
Money will be primarily spent on train travel, bus travel, bike rental, attractions (hoping to buy passes that encompass entrance to a multitude of places.) Bike rental, food/groceries, wine and beer.
After some research, we are definitely going in April-May of 2016. Starting in Edinburgh and ending in Amsterdam. 21 days is the rough time frame. Definitely not renting a car.
Tower- awesome to hear from a former New Englander! My mother is an artist as well (watercolor and oil) !! Cape Ann is her absolute inspiration, and she displays much of her work around town, until she can get her own gallery one day- the ultimate dream! What a fun coincidence!
Her website is http://www.debsartgallery.com
-In Amsterdam I will be staying with a friend for free.
-We are not big spenders (i.e. souvenirs, clothing, expensive meals.)
-Hoping to do AirBNB type of accommodations or budget hotels.
-Cook at home some nights plus snacks/street food for light breakfasts and lunch.
Money will be primarily spent on train travel, bus travel, bike rental, attractions (hoping to buy passes that encompass entrance to a multitude of places.) Bike rental, food/groceries, wine and beer.
After some research, we are definitely going in April-May of 2016. Starting in Edinburgh and ending in Amsterdam. 21 days is the rough time frame. Definitely not renting a car.
Tower- awesome to hear from a former New Englander! My mother is an artist as well (watercolor and oil) !! Cape Ann is her absolute inspiration, and she displays much of her work around town, until she can get her own gallery one day- the ultimate dream! What a fun coincidence!
Her website is http://www.debsartgallery.com
May 6th, 2015, 02:47 PM
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Annie:
My MIL started seriously at age 65 and was quit prolific in her golden years. After she died at 90, all my kids and adult grandchildren inherited the "inventory" of unsold works. Walk into any home here in Ojai, Ventura or Santa Barbara, and if there's a "Cottage with Blue Door" or Motif #1 hanging out, you can bet it's one of granny's pieces.
My BIL, one of her sons, was owner of Storyville Night Club in Boston and he always invited performers to spend Sunday lollygagging on MIL's front porch (Louis Armstrong, Pearl Bailey, Eartha Kitt, Sara Vaughn, etc)...you can just imagine the lily-white town of Yankee Rockport as they walked by MIL's front porch (which was hard to miss).
Have a great trip next spring.
My MIL started seriously at age 65 and was quit prolific in her golden years. After she died at 90, all my kids and adult grandchildren inherited the "inventory" of unsold works. Walk into any home here in Ojai, Ventura or Santa Barbara, and if there's a "Cottage with Blue Door" or Motif #1 hanging out, you can bet it's one of granny's pieces.
My BIL, one of her sons, was owner of Storyville Night Club in Boston and he always invited performers to spend Sunday lollygagging on MIL's front porch (Louis Armstrong, Pearl Bailey, Eartha Kitt, Sara Vaughn, etc)...you can just imagine the lily-white town of Yankee Rockport as they walked by MIL's front porch (which was hard to miss).
Have a great trip next spring.
May 7th, 2015, 03:19 AM
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If you are hoping to use mainly public transport to me that says city break - which doesn't really sit with the list of likes and dislikes you've come up with.
Either go for a car and tour the more rural bits of the UK, or scrap all the above and plump for somewhere like Barcelona which is a better fit as cities go (beaches, seafood, unusual architecture, bit less focus on museums) and will also allow you some day trips like Montserrat.
Either go for a car and tour the more rural bits of the UK, or scrap all the above and plump for somewhere like Barcelona which is a better fit as cities go (beaches, seafood, unusual architecture, bit less focus on museums) and will also allow you some day trips like Montserrat.
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