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18 days until first time in France - overwhelmed by choices!

18 days until first time in France - overwhelmed by choices!

Old Aug 24th, 2015, 05:14 PM
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18 days until first time in France - overwhelmed by choices!

Hello everyone! In 18 days my new husband and I will be going to London, Paris and a little driving loop through central France for our honeymoon. We've both been to London but never to France! It will be my first time to mainland Europe at all. I have been excitedly planning this trip for months (booked the flights before our wedding and have nailed down accomodations and the rental car since the wedding, which was June 20th). Now we are 18 days out and we really need to set more definitive plans, especially in our driving tour of Burgundy, Auvergne, Bordeaux, the Loire Valley and Chartres. This is our itinerary (the *** indicates HELP needed! I have browsed but feel overwhelmed):

Fri Sept 11 - Toronto to Heathrow
Sat Sept 12- Tues Sept 15 - London (one night in Lewisham with family, two nights at myhotel Bloomsbury).
Tues Sept 15 - Eurostar to Paris in the AM, check into our first Airbnb, three nights in Montmartre near Sacre Coeur.
Fri Sept 18 - after more exploring of Paris, pick up our rental at 6pm at Orly Airport and a quick drive to our Airbnb (in a treehouse!) about 30 mins east of Fontainebleau
Sat Sept 19 - Fontainebleau in the AM, then drive through Burgundy to our next Airbnb (a chateau) in Pouilloux.***really need suggestions for wineries that are visitor friendly***
Sun Sept 20 - possibly continuing to tour Burgundy, but have to make our way to our next Airbnb, (another chateau) in Auvergne. ***suggestions for Auvergne region appreciated***
Mon Sept 21 - drive across to our Airbnb apartment in Bordeaux *** with so many ways to get there, again suggestions are appreciated!***
Tues Sept 21 - drive up to our troglodyctic cave house in the Loire Valley. ***would love your favourite spots in the Loire, places to eat, fav chateaux and sparkling wine producers***
Wed Sept 22 - after driving through more of the Loire, we arrive just before the evening meal to drop off our car a four min walk from our non-Airbnb b&b in Chartres, in order to see Chartres en lumières at night. ***dinner suggestions welcome***
Thur Sept 23 - morning train back to Paris from Chartres. Staying in the 7th at Hotel de Varenne for two nights, figure we will see more of the tourist draws and museums while within walking distance.
Sat Sept 26 - fly back to Toronto

Don't get me wrong, I've researched like crazy! But I think we could spend our whole two weeks in almost any of these regions, so every time I try to narrow in on what we should do, I panic! I have NEVER planned such a long trip. So excited but so nervous! My husband wants to help but it's just not his thing, and he finds it as hard to choose as I do.

Sorry this is rambling, but I am really keen to have more seasoned travelers weigh in. We love history, food, and breath-taking views. We won't shop too much (carry-on only) and like to go to authentic places - fewer tourist traps. Thanks!!!
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 05:29 PM
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Here's the deal - since it's your first time in France you can throw a dart at the map and have a fine time wherever it hits. My point, it really doesn't matter where, but it does matter if it's everywhere.

Just for clarification - you've got 2 September 21st's. I hope it's a typo and not a real reflection of your reservations. I so wish you were spending at least 3 nights at each location. I really do think that's why it feels so crazy.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 05:37 PM
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Agree, but if you have booked with Airbnb you have already paid in full.

All we can do is wish you well and hopefully you will have a great honeymoon vacation.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 05:39 PM
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Agree that your dates are wrong for the later part of the trip.

Also, have you looked at these drives on viamichelin.com? It seems to me that you will be spending the bulk of your time just sitting in a car. One night stops - esp a bunch in a row - can be very exhausting and you have left yourself very little time to see/do anything.

And this is from someone who has done more than 20 road trips in europe. But we never do fewer than 2 nights anyplace and usually stops are 3 or 4 nights - so we can see the sights in the area.

I'm afraid you will have an expensive and exhausting trip that will be mostly a blur by the time you get home.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 05:41 PM
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Sorry - at a minimum I would bag staying in Chartres - since it's only about an hour from Paris by train.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 05:54 PM
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Congrats on the wedding. Planning a wedding and then a honeymoon is a ton of work.

It is difficult to offer what might have been great advice if transportation, lodging, etc. were not already booked. Is any of it changeable? All those one night stays are exhausting and eat up time checking in and out.

Best not to count Sept 15 as both London and Paris.
Nights in London are 12, 13, 14, Sept.

Thur, Sept 23, you return to Paris.
You depart for home on Sept 26
You say you have two nights then in Hotel de Varenne. Either one of the dates is wrong or you should actually have three nights, 23, 24, 25 in Paris.

It would be better if you could somehow, rather than staying in Paris twice, and checking in and out of yet another hotel, go directly to one of your other places outside Paris as soon as you arrive on the Eurostar, and put all days in Paris at the end. Possible? If not, perhaps some of the experts on France can answer your questions and maybe advise some consolidation. I believe you are trying to cover far too many areas, with not enough time to see things, but you are young so probably have lots of stamina.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 05:54 PM
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Well it's too late to change yor itinerary since you're booked and only 18 days from departure but that is really way too much territory of France crammed into way too little time. Look at www.viamichelin.com to get driving directions, time estimates, distances and fuel and toll estimates. The drive times are non-stop but fairly accurate. You've got some really long drives and not a lot of time for sightseeing on the way between destinations.

I see a lot of questions about food and wine in your post and that's not my thing so I'll let others respond to that. One thing you need to make clear is the name of the town where you are staying in the Auvergne region. For now all I can do is give you some general advice about using the excellent French tourist office websites to help with your planning.

You can google the tourist office websites for any region, département, city, town or village you may want to visit. France is divided into 22 regions and each of these regions is divided into departments, a total of 95 departments (including Corsica). You will find loads of info on these websites including hotel/accommodation and restaurant info as well as what to see and do in the area. Occasionally the websites have English versions. In doing a google search enter the words "office de tourisme" followed by the name of your region, département, city, town or village and this will bring that place to the top of your search.

Here's an example using the region of Burgundy, the département of the Côte d'Or and the town of Beaune:

http://www.burgundy-tourism.com/

http://www.cotedor-tourisme.com/

http://www.beaune-tourism.com/

Here is some general info about driving and maps and how to use maps to explore and wander when driving from place to place. I think in your case the Michelin Atlas (of the scale of either 1:150,000 or 1:200,000) that covers all of France would be ideal:

Get your hands on the Michelin maps. You want the ones of the scale 1:200,000 (regional maps) or 1:150,000 (departmental maps, more detailed, cover slightly less area) for whatever regions you visit. A nice feature of the 1:150,000 maps is they show the starred attractions in the corresponding Michelin Green guidebooks. The Michelin maps have icons for all kinds of historically/touristically interesting things such as châteaux, ruins, churches, abbeys, scenic view points, caves, Roman sites, megaliths, designated scenic roads and many other things.

Usually when I'm exploring various regions in France I just look at the map and I am able to plan interesting and scenic drives just reading the map. For instance, I usually look for a designated scenic road, which are highlighted in green, and I especially look for towns with the historic church and/or château icon. With the departmental maps also look for towns/sites/attractions that have been give one or more Michelin stars. I also try to make sure the route goes through as many small villages as possible. Usually putting all these things together I find interesting and scenic drives without even knowing where I am going and with no assistance from a guide book. Often these places are never mentioned in guidebooks and remain completely unknown to many tourists.

You can buy the Michelin maps from their website and here is a link to the page that shows you the 1:200,000 scale maps of France (Regional maps):
http://tinyurl.com/4bt96ev

And here is a link to the page that shows you the 1:150,000 scale maps of France (Départementale maps):
http://tinyurl.com/6mt4n64

You could also buy them here but then you can't do research beforehand. The maps can be bought in many places such as bookstores, news stands, magazine stores, larger supermarkets, department stores, hypermarkets and in the full service rest areas on the autoroutes, just to name a few. If you're going to be traveling all over France you may find it easier to buy the Michelin Atlas, which covers all of France.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 06:10 PM
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You may be paid with Airbnb, but depending on the host, you can usually cancel within a reasonable amount of time. You are staying at some beautifully interesting places. It would be nice if you had time to really enjoy them. At the pace you are going, you will be checking in and out with little time to appreciate them. You still have a couple of weeks to possibly rethink and combine places for longer stays. I know because my last trip to France, I made changes and cancelled places even once I was there. So, if anyone can/does give you advice on changes, it can be done.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 06:16 PM
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I'm so sorry, all, yes, you are right my dates are wrong (I'm home sick and sleepy).

Correct until Monday the 21!

Tues 22nd - Loire Valley
Wed 23rd - arrive Chartres just for the evening, so more Loire Valley that day
Thurs 24 - train back to Paris, staying in the 7th
Fri 25 - more Paris
Sat 26 - back to Toronto.

I appreciate your candor, and will totally agree that we have overbooked. Here's some of our whys:

a) we wanted to have an Airbnb vacation... and we got carried away by all the amazing accommodations available to us. Part of the reason we are bookending our trip with Paris is because of the availability of the treehouse outside Paris. For us, where we stay is a big part of the trip, not a "just a place to rest our head". And because we are in email contact with our hosts, check-in is not like at the local hojo. In some ways, we are already checked in.
b) we do not want to cram in too many things into each day. We have about 3-4 hours by car in a day, which isn't great, I admit. Again, this comes down to finding it so hard to pick just a couple places to visit. Beginners error. You have to book far in advance to get the best places, which means I booked very soon after the wedding.

So, no, we can't really cancel our bookings. Instead, we want to try to stay off the A highways and see the sights as best we can from the car and from stopping along the way. To make the most AND the least (as far as stress and bother) with what we have already booked, I think we should just pick one big thing to do or see and let the rest of each day be a discovery.

I will definitely check out viaMichelin and the other websites mentioned! I'm sorry again for the sloppy post with mixed up dates!
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 06:16 PM
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I can only offer a little help and say that I LOVED Chenonceau. I also enjoyed Amboise but was not there long. Near Fontainebleau, Barbizon is a charming town that we also enjoyed.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 06:28 PM
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"fav chateaux" -- my favorite were Chenonceau, Azay-le-Rideau, and the gardens of Villandry. YMMV.

Enjoy!
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 06:30 PM
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Reliena,

Your idea of making the best of your current plan is a good attitude. If you see one or two things and allow time to enjoy the places you stay, you will have a wonderful time, whether you see a little or a lot. It isn't all about seeing things. Every trip is a little bit of an adventure. Even driving time with your new DH will be fun.

The tree house sounds fantastic!
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 06:45 PM
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Thank-you for the helpful suggestions, denisea, kja and Sassafrass! I understand the earlier scoldings, but it does make one feel a bit poorly after being the planner of her first ever long vacation! Hehe. I guess being from Canada, 3-4 hour drives is not a very big deal. We went camping this weekend and the 2.5 hour drive each way is considered "close by" camping! It's perspective.

HOWEVER! Your caution about too much has started a very valuable conversation between me and the fella (8 years together means we at least have planned trips of 4-7 days before) and what we really want out of the trip and that I should remember that, unlike the driving trips of my youth, he's not as big a fan of it as my Dad. We've decided to inquire with a couple of our Airbnbs the possibility of extending a night and cancelling Bordeaux. While just one night it's a pretty huge swath of driving we'd cancel, allowing us more time to enjoy the closer regions of Burgundy, Auvergne and the Loire without the longer stretch west.

Chartres is happening at this point because we've booked the car drop off, the train and we *really* want to see Chartres en lumieres. http://www.chartresenlumieres.com/en/
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 06:59 PM
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I don't think you will regret paring your trip back a bit nearly as much as you might regret spending so much time in transit, and so little time actually enjoying the places you reach. Good choice!
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 07:15 PM
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You are to be commended for getting advice and re-assessing your plans. Kudos for taking advice in the spirit it is intended. It was good that you two had a productive discussion. I predict you and the "fella" are going to have a great trip and an excellent marriage.
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Old Aug 24th, 2015, 10:57 PM
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FMT nails it, a big road trip, dropping Bordeaux would be fantastic, I might even drop the Loire (both great visits, but wow talk about a tough trip), google maps good but their times are way off unless you are on the motorway system (tolls, I guess you know).

You need this on your phone http://www.bison-fute.gouv.fr/ using the English version, it tells you about road closures etc and is a must.

Tasting in Burgundy, either ask your AB&B hosts who should know the locals, or check out local tourist info. There is a bit of "correct behaviour" you need to know.

1) the word "Degustation" will be stuck outside
2) Normally you don't pay for the tasting, there are places that charge and they can be good but they have a pro-organisation to take you through a good tasting, but most are just Granny, who has the objective of selling you wine. Good manners means, you have to buy something if you do a free tasting, so, if the wine is like vinigar buy some glasses or a corkscrew at least
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Old Aug 25th, 2015, 02:40 AM
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Thanks bilbo! The Loire is what I am most excited about, but good to know Google is off on times! Hmm. Might take some more consideration. We have two night in the Loire now, and don't have to be in Chartres until the afternoon of the 23rd to drop off the car.
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Old Aug 25th, 2015, 02:43 AM
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Love the Loire, hope you can make it work.
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Old Aug 25th, 2015, 02:43 AM
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use the michelin website (mentioned above) to get the right times
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Old Aug 25th, 2015, 04:19 AM
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Hi Reliena

Hubby and I were in France for the first time last year and I'm very jealous of your trip (we loved it).

We spent 3 nights in Burgundy, based in Autun, driving around....(sorry I was just reminiscing our how lovely it was). But I digress.

The owners of the B&B we stayed at were very helpful in advising us on wineries. Here in WA, Aust it's common to go from winery to winery, taste the wine and leave. They advised us this wasn't always the case in France and some could get upset if you didn't purchase wine while visiting, but there are others who are tourist friendly (because you can only take so many bottles home). Some of the places we visited and would recommend:

- Chateau de Pommard (we did a tour of the winery and tasted some lovely wines).
- L'Imaginarium - a fun and interactive place to learn about the history of wine in the region and taste wines. The drive here from Autun was beautiful (I think it was on the Route des Grand Crus)
- the drive through Aloxe-Corton and surrounding areas was very picturesque with all the vineyards
- the town of Beaune was beautiful (Hospices de Beaune is worth a visit, we visited the same day as we did Chateau de Pommard)
- Chateau de Cormatin
- Chateau de Couches

We usually spent around 3 or so hours a day driving and didn't find it boring. Just driving through all the little French towns was amazing. And the beautiful autumn colours of the vines we saw is still a stand out memory of mine.

Enjoy your honeymoon
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