17 days for all of this will be undoubedly exhausting for almost anyone. I won't get into the details. I'd encourage you to review some recent posts from people who've wanted to do similar trips.

Don't feel bad or overwhelmed - it's a common first time mistake in an initial itinerary to try to cram in way too much.

With 2.5 weeks I'd focus on at most 2 countries and 2-3 regions. I can't tell you where to cut as it all has to do with personal taste. Also, if you're on a tight budget the more you move around it will likely be more expensive. Is the $3K budget (not including airfare) for both you and your wife? Or is this $3K each?

I am certainly not a travel expert. I am sure others will give you better advice than I can, but you seem to have too much travel going on. We are planning our second 15 day trip to Italy for the first of June 2013 and we are doing Rome, Venice and the lake district in the North. It seems to me (I am much older than you) that you have a lot of traveling going on and not as much time to relax and enjoy the areas. The best advice I ever got on this site was to go back and read other trip reports. You can click near the top and select the country you want to explore and then look for trip reports. Good Luck!

Skip Spa

Sorry---hit something!

Skip Spain this time---you have more than enough for IT and CH, and the travel time is too much.

I would also skip Geneva in favor of Luzern, then the BO and fly home from Zurich.

EshNik, I will tell you that Bob the Navigator was one of the key reasons I had a successful first trip to Italy. He is an expert and has so many tips. I read all of his trip reports! He has beautiful pictures and detailed reports. Take his advice!

First, a compliment to you for doing some research and figuring out what you like and don't like. Glad you don't mind advice about specific bits.

Trip is a bit rushed in places, especially Florence and Venice.

Trains in Italy are cheap and efficient. They are espcecially good for going city center to city center where you don't want/need a car. Use those unless you are touring in the countryside.

Florence is not far from Venice. Don't bother with an overnight train for such a short trip.

Venice has little night life, but it is lovely & romantic to walk around Venice in darkness.

Florence is all about Art and Architecture. If that is not of great interest to you currently, don't feel you have to see it. Save it for another time when you have more interest. Instead, rent a car and visit a bit of Tuscany for scenery, food and wine. Siena or some other hill towns might be interesting to you.

Great scenery - all three countries, but spectacular on the AC of Italy, Lakes, Switzerland and many parts of Spain.

Culture - all three countries and very different in different parts of each country.

Forget visiting Milan, Save the time for Spain.

Costs - Switzerland is very expensive. Spain is least expensive, though not cheap. If your budget is $3,000 for the two of you, I don't think you can get luxury for that any place for that length of a time. Consider dropping Switzerland and adding time to Spain.

For great beaches and night life, Spain is fantastic.

Throwing out a lot of ideas:

Visit:
Rome
Venice
Lakes

If you can afford the time, add Tuscany.

Fly from Milan to Malaga, Spain.

Time on Beaches, rent car and enjoy nightlife in small towns, consider Granada for scenery and culture.
Visit Seville for Sights and night life.
Barcelona (fly or train from Seville) for culture & night life.

or. . . rather than Southern Spain, hit Northern Spain - San Sebastion area for great food, scenery and beaches, then on to Barcelona.

If you are set on Switzerland, combine it with Italy (or Spain or even France - I know you didn't mention France) and don't try to do three countries. You could consider the AC (though it is expensive) for stunning scenery, but would have to cut something.
You could look at something like this: Rome to AC, night train or fly to Venice, continue.
Or spend the whole time in Italy.

Hope you have lots of fun planning.

Nightlife in Barcelona is incredible and the beaches in Catalunya offer plenty of adverture tourism opportunities. I wouldn't recommend skipping Spain but I am highly biased.

I think the OP needs to determine what places in each country are most in line with his interests. Obviously all of this can't be done.

Agree w Bob/navigator - I'd personally choose just It/SW and then a future return trip could be So. France/Spain.

I also agree that if you plan on 3 nights in Venice, that leaves you with 2 "full" days to explore Venice, and you'll be glad you stayed that one extra day.

PLEASE SEE
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/pre-and-post-cruise-northern-italy-trip.cfm
for some suggestions from our visit to Venice.

You have laid out a lovely vacation that will take about 6 weeks if you actually want to see anything. Otherwise you have a lovely tour of the train stations of europe.

I fear some of the things you want simply aren't possible (Venice to Florence is only about 2 hours by train and you simply can;t do it as an overnight trip).

There are ski schools in the Alps in summer - but only on the mountain tops - so a very long and expensive trip from the valley - plus do you have enough experience at high altitudes - 10 to 12,000 feet to know you can take part in activity without physical problems? And this, like everything else in Switzerland - if VERY expensive.

Have no idea what coasatsteering is.

I strongly suggest you have a look at:

bahn.de to determine how long the trips you are contemplating are

Have a look at the michelin green guides to see the major sights in each place - and how long it will take to do so. Even if you don't want to see any of the museums - a few major sights in each place will take more time than you have allowed.

Thanks everyone. Its heart warming to see so many people coming forward to help.
looking at all the feedbacks, one thing is evident - take up only 2 countries at a time. I think we made the mistake of treating these countries as three big cities.

Based on your feedbacks and some research, we've come up with three routes:

1) Wife's choice

3N Rome - 4N Florence (including either tuscany (for beach) or Sienna or both - base city florence) - 4N Venice (Including lake district) - 4N SW (Interlaken - Luzern - Fly back from Zurich)

draw backs - SW is very expensive and no beaches/night life/ adventure sports in the entire route


2) My Choice

3N Rome - 4N Venice (including lake district and on the way to venice - sienna or pisa) - 2N Sevilla - 2N Granada - 4N Barcelona (fly back )

drawback - may again be a little hectic.. not sure. pls comment

3) 1 choice we both think might be logical - Taking 1 big country at a time to explore it fully

(fly into Venice )4N Venice (including lake district) - 4N Florence (including tuscany, sienna)- 3N Rome - 4N Any 1 beach in naples or sicily or Lido or any other, can explore more beaches from one base taking day trips (fly back from Rome)

Though we are interested in seeing Italy thoroughly ,the reason we are not that keen on the third route is since we are coming all the way to europe for the first time, we 've the option of taking the best of atleast two countries. Who knows when the next trip is gonna be.


@cathy - Thanks for being the first eyeopener . $3k was for both which we've now revised to $ 4k lookin at hotel prices and feedbacks. Taken your advice n redone the routes. even I am a little more keen for spain then SW. Let us know ur take on the routes

@jane - tryin to make it relaxin. included lake district and checked bob's advises on his page. Thanks. Do add more of your valuable suggestions

@bob - Thanks. your route is definitely more relaxed and to the point. Made the changes as per your suggestion. Do let us know which route you recommend and if we shud change anything further in that

@docdan - Thanks. read the page u recommended. at least to us looked like a chaos though it did give us a very good idea on wat to expect and will surely help us when we start planning every city in detail. Included extra nights in Venice. still confused between sw/spain. Though logically SW looks like a better choice but looking at our interests it might end up being a very quiet if not dull kinda vacation.

@sassafrass: Thanks a lot for the detailed picture. Appreciate it and your routes literally spoke out our mind. my route is actually a lift off from your 1st option. since we now revised our budget to 4k and reduced the trip to 15 days, is that good enough for a semi luxury trip. basically as of now I am calculating my budget as follows - $1500 for hotels, $500 for all commute, 1500 food and wine, $500 Misc. Also do choose best route according to you and suggest changes if any. Thanks again

@nytraveler: lol .. no we do not want to jst take a lovely tour of train stations. redone the course. do check n give ur feedback. dropped the idea of skiing this time around. may be during early or late winters some year. went through the website. will work wonders during planning out detailed trip to each city. right now just looking to finalise the itinary so that we can finish all the major bookings by mid/end jan.

I agree with your wife.
And, start now and plan 3 trips in advance since you will return---you are so young. We have gone back 27 times now---most of them after age 55.

So glad you took the advice without taking it personal. My first 3 trips to Europe were way too much....I was trying to cram in so much and it ended up a blur. It took me about 5 trips before I realized that I would be returning and it was more important to enjoy what I'm seeing, sit down and people watch and actually meet people along the way! Instead I was literally checking sites off a list as I visited each city.

I like your 3rd option of just focusing on one country at a time but I can understand you feel like you want/need to see more.

About your other choices:
I haven't returned to Italy in 10 years (it was my favorite before I "found" Spain) but 3 nights seems short for Rome especially if it's your first city after a transatlantic flight. Your idea of Sevilla (2), Granada (2) and Barcelona (4) is very rushed. First of all I'd recommend 4 nights minimum for Sevilla with a daytrip to Cordoba. You could easily spend a week in Sevilla with all the nearby daytrips. 2 nights would really only be one day when you consider the transportation time from Italy. This is way too short. 2 nights for Granada is fine. 4 nights for Barcelona is a little tight. You'd have enough time to see the main sights in Barcelona but wouldn't have time to explore the area with daytrips (another great place for daytrips). If you really want to do the Spain part and only have 8 days then I'd probably stick with one geography and return to finish in another trip. Even with an entire 2 week trip dedicated to Spain (or Italy) you can't see it all!

I like your #3 option, slowing down and concentrating on one country at a time. You will not be sorry about it.
Italy is a great first trip (it was our first trip, too – 15 days in Venice, Florence and Cinque Terre) and I am sure you will go back.

Read trip reports, google images of places you think might be of interest, and decide based on that.

4N Venice (including lake district) – I think you need at least 2 days in Venice, that’s 3N, especially if coming from US (where are you coming from?). That leaves you 1 day for a day trip to the lakes…not sure if that’s possible, we haven’t done the lakes yet.
4N Florence (including tuscany, sienna) – If that means 3N/2 days in Florence, 1 day trip to Sienna, then ok. Otherwise, keep in mind, Tuscany is a big region that deserves more time.
3N Rome – 2 days in Rome is probably not enough…
Don’t know and cannot recommend beaches, but for your amount of time 15-17 days, I think 3 bases would be enough. Leave Sicily for another trip.
You will have a great trip!

I see lots of advantages to choice # 3, which I believe is to spend all your time in Italy. I think that will give you the best chance of making the most of your time.

And much as I love Naples and Sicily, I wouldn't suggest that you include either on this trip. They are some distance from where you will be, and are near many other things that you'll want to visit one day, so wait for another trip to visit them.

Venice, Florence, and Rome (with or without a few side trips) make a lot of sense for the time you've got.

Enjoy!

I think that your third option is your best one! There is so much that Italy has to offer and so many sights that you can go and see. Im sure you will make it across the pond again at some point and you can explore another country. If you focus on one country you will be able to do more then scratch the surface and you will not be in a rush or feel obligated to hurry through one city so you can get to the next. You will also cut down on time spent traveling as the travel time between Florence, ROme and Venice is minimal. Have a look on www.trenitalia.com so that you can get the relevant train information and see ticket prices to help you in regards to your budget.
Also you have said about staying in a hotel. I would look to renting an apartment as they are normally cheaper then hotels and you would have more space etc. There are a plethora of websites that you can look at to find apartments that will offer internet and be in a prime location. Maybe by staying in an apartment you will spend less and some of the money from your 1500USD can be spent elsewhere!!! i rented a flat in rome through a company called nextaway. had an overall good experience as the landlord was nice and really helpful.

>>>4N Venice (including lake district and on the way to venice - sienna or pisa)<<<

Siena and Pisa are not on the way to Venice.

>>>(fly into Venice )4N Venice (including lake district) - 4N Florence (including tuscany, sienna)- 3N Rome - 4N Any 1 beach in naples or sicily or Lido or any other, can explore more beaches from one base taking day trips (fly back from Rome)<<<

You seriously need to look at a map and figure out the time it takes to reach places especially if you are depending on public transport. The lake district isn't a practical day trip from Venice. There is a beach area north of Venice (Lido di Jesolo) or the Venice Lido.

http://www.jesolo.it/eng/info.html

>>>3N Rome - 4N Venice (including lake district and on the way to venice - sienna or pisa) - 2N Sevilla - 2N Granada - 4N Barcelona (fly back )<<<

This plan is not at all practical. Too little time at destinations and too much time on transport. Try listing a day-by-day itinerary with sights you want to see and how much time it will take to reach them.

We agree with the above and travel with the idea it is better to see a few palces well, than many poorly. Switzerland is one of the few places we have visited and would never return. While there is natural beauty, it is bland and dull as mayonnaise sandwich.

It is easy to spend 17 days in either Spain and Italy. What first timers do not realize is how different the topography, the culture, the food, and the history is from region to region.

for such a wide-ranging trip I'd take the train and also because you are going to largely big cities where cars are more and more a liability - many Italian towns ban private cars from city centers, parking can be problematic and expensive, etc

Plus travel time between your proposed OP sites is significant and trains can go up to around 190 mph at times and you can also hop overnight trains to relocated large distances at night - like when going between Paris and Spain, hop the Hotel Train - save cost of a hotel and daytime travel times.

to plan a European rail trip I always spotlight these IMO fantastic sources - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. And with such a wide-ranging trip some kind of Eurail Pass would seem to be a good deal - lets yo chose your trains as you go along and not pre-book some discounted but often non-changeable non-refundable ticket weeks in advance.

Hi EshNik,

For 2 young people who like nightlife and beaches, and who are traveling in May/June on a budget, I think Spain fits your needs much better than Italy or Switzerland. That is especially true if you want to go camping.

However, if you want to see 2 countries, and if you are more culturally attracted to Italy, then I suggest going to Italy and Spain. There are relatively inexpensive flights to Barcelona from many parts of Italy.

I will also suggest that you read up on Sperlonga as your possible seaside escapade in italy. It is just south of Rome and it has the right combo of history and beach, I think.

Maybe 9 days in Italy and 6 days in Spain would work well for you.

Agree with eurotravelplan that based on your expressed interests, Spain would have more appeal - wonderful beaches and plenty of night life. Based on your expressed personal interests, make Spain your country and spend your whole time there. It is a big country and has absolutely everything you want. Fly into Madrid for a day or so, then South to Andalucia, (including Seville, Cordoba and the coastal beaches) then onto Granada and fly to Barcelona. You could also go to the Algarve (S Portugal) for a few days of nice beaches (alternative to more crowded beaches in Spain). That would even allow you to see a bit of a second country.

If you feel you absolutely must see a bit of two countries, you could fly into Venice, stay 3 nts, head to the lakes area for 3 nts, then fly from Milan to Seville. Visit Southern Spain and fly home from Barcelona.

One thing is certain. Whatever you choose will be an incredible trip - as long as you don't try to do to much rushing around, but instead really explore and relish each area.

A bit of information for Spain. www.maribelsguides.com

Lots of good advice here for re-thinking your trip. eurootravelplan has good ideas. And do look at apartment rentals. Some only rent for a week minimum, but many will work for three or more days.

If you are not big on art and architecture, I don't know why you want to go to Florence. With your interests it makes no sense. Staying in Florence and wanting to do beaches is not practical. It is too far to do a day trip. Better you go to someplace on the coast and stay there a couple of days. Beaches on the coast of Italy are jam-packed in summer, with ranks of rental lounge chairs in many places. You could stay somewhere around Carrara for beaches. Lots of beach life around there in little towns. Look at the map.

Just to complicate your planning, DD lived in Italy for a year as a 21 year old and loved the beaches in Sardinia. She thought they were the best!

We very rarely do single country trips - unless they are very short - a week or so.

We like the idea of 2 countries - especially 2 countries with different cultures (for instance Italy and Spain gives you one romantic and one germanic).

Also that combo gives you a lot of time in cities but also time at lakes and in the mountains - you can definitely do hiking in the Berner Oberland and visit a number of small villages with castles, lakes with waterfalls and take one or more lake steamers. Not sure if there is anything more adventurous you are interested in (balloon rides in Tuscany?)? But it's worth exploring.

The key is to limit the number of different stops/hotels - and avoid doing too many long distance train trips.

Nytraveler, were you just thinking ahead or did you mean that Italy and Spain were - one romantic and one germanic, or did you intend to say Italy and another country (Switzerland?) rather than Spain? Perhaps I am wrong (I have been before) but, I never thought of Spain as Germanic.

Certainly agree with you about limiting the number of hotel stays. I also like visiting two countries - if they are close together or the trip lends itself to easy flights. OTOH, Spain and Italy are fairly large with years of sightseeing possibilities in each so OP would not go wrong with choosing one or a little of both.

It will be interesting to see what the OP eventually decides.

Though I found Spain to be surprisingly Germanic in folks strictly following rules - like never crossing streets until the Walk sign comes on regardless of whether there is any traffic or not I do think Nytraveler meant Germanic - the Germanic part of Switzerland like the fabulous Jungfrau Region though there are also French and Italian regions as well.

Spain is about as far from Germanic as it gets IMHO!

Buonasera ... Grazie Di Buono.

All your opinions and advices are much appreciated.

Sorry, but no big decisions yet

Will be able to decide and post a detailed itinerary (per day basis) only by mid/end jan. ( awaiting bonuses and stuff in jan and going off to thailand tomorrow for christmas and nye - reason why we are not putting or cant put too much time on this research)

based on all comments (and some research), We'll most probably be choosing one of the following routes:

1. 5N Rome - 6N Tuscany - 3N Venice
2. 5N Rome - 3N Venice - 6N Barcelona
3. 5N Rome - 3N Venice - 6N Luzern & Interlaken

We've one or two spare days which we may or may not add to a city based on our research,route and budget.

If we choose Italy - Spain, based on the budget we might consider the route

4N Rome - 3N Venice -(fly to) 4N Seville -(overnite train) 5N Barcelona

Many have iterated that we'll surely come back and should plan accordingly.
Though I am sure the place is really magical and respect that opinion but I think even if we return to any of these countries later, by then we might've kid/s and that i guess will be a completely different experience - One of the biggest reasons why our routes've been so cramped up, wanted to see it all as a couple

Plus if given a chance (and if god remains kind in providing the resources - very important) we'd rather explore a new country then go to the same country twice. There is nothin must see or must do for us as long as we are having a good time. Even US is on the charts so you all can imagine how big the world is for us....


@bob - Thanks again. hope you understand from above y not keeping 'returning' as an option in mind
@cathyM - much appreciate your analysis and recommendations as before. I am as keen on spain. lets see how it finally works out in jan
@xyz99 - Thanks for your recommendations. The details about Florence region was most helpful and forced us to look into the entire region straight away. will mostly go with a beach city within or outside Italy. Lets see
@kJa - Thanks - as you can see above, working accordingly
@maiteland - thanks.. Didnt know bout the apartment bit. pretty interesting. will surely look into it in jan
@kybourbon - thanks.. pretty blunt I guess but true.. we understand that the research part is a must but right now just finalising our options for the best possible route as per our interests and time in hand (also money). Till now everybody's suggestions (including yours) have been immensely helpful in narrowin it down.
@PalenQ - Thanks.. interesting points.. will help immensely during bookin
@eurotravelplan - Again, a very true analysis and completely agree with all your reasonings.. Dont think there are much options for adventure sports but m sure overall it'll be pretty adventurous for us.. will b able to research the places you mentioned only in jan... Lets see how it all works out
@sassafrass - Thanks again. I am very keen on Just spain but Esh is keen on Italy and SW's scenic valley's which actually might be an interesting change from our usual holiday routines. That's why the whole confusion. but lets see how it all works out.
@iris1745 - thanks.. will open any new sites only in jan
@charnees - Thanks for the suggestions..will give more time to tuscany and less to just florence if we choose only Italy for this holiday.... will have a more elaborate itinerary and understanding of beaches by jan


arrividiarchi ..... Ci vidiamo piu tardi ('ve been workin on Italian a bit )