16 days in France and Italy

Old May 28th, 2017, 09:22 AM
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16 days in France and Italy

Heading to France and Italy in September. I'm in my late 30s, it's my first solo trip and first time to Europe. Any advice or suggestions on unique excursions would be great! I'll be traveling via train:

Paris 4 nights
- thinking about 2 day pass
- day of shopping
Nice 3 nights (Staying on Promenade de Anglais)
- thinking about day tour of French Riviera
Milan 2 nights
Florence 3 nights
Rome 5 nights
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Old May 28th, 2017, 09:36 AM
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Are you factoring in transit time? You are covering a lot of places with not a lot if time in each. I totally get wanting to see as much as you can on your first trip, but would advise possibly reducing the number of places you're aiming for. For starters I'd eliminate Milan (although I like Milan and surrounds a lot)- and maybe consider flying between Nice and Rome. You could keep your current plan for Paris, take the high speed train to Nice (personally I'd fly...) from which it's easy to take local trains to nearby locations, fly to Rome and do day trips to Florence or other spots by train.
But do take into consideration how much time you're going to lose moving from city to city, getting settled in, etc. It can be very surprising and dismaying!
Have a wonderful trip whatever you end up doing. I love all the places on your itinerary!
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Old May 28th, 2017, 10:07 AM
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I was thinking it was too much also! Original plan was 2 weeks in Europe and added 2 extra days for travel time. Paris, Nice, Florence and Rome, but the train fr Nice to Florence stops in Milan anyways. I'm a rookie traveler and not familiar with the amount of time I should allot for transitioning hotels. Thanks for the suggestions. I'l check into the flights!
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Old May 28th, 2017, 10:35 AM
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It doesn't sound all that rushed to me. I've seen worse.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 12:48 PM
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Yes it seems dandy to me - you could skip Milan perhaps and add days elsewhere -Milan is nice but there are much nicer places-like Venice!

anyway for trains book in advance for discounted tickets - www.voyages-sncf.com for trains in France
www.thello.com for the few fast trains Nice to Milan
www.trenitalia.com for Italian trains.

For lots on trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 12:51 PM
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Sounds OK to me for a first trip, but I doubt you'd benefit from what you're calling a "two-day pass" for Paris. Which pass? If you're planning to visit a whole lot of museums, the Museum Pass might be useful, but it's not available for 2 days. For transportation for a few days, just buy a carnet of 10 tickets for bus/métro/RER and replenish with individual tickets as necessary.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 01:31 PM
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- thinking about 2 day pass>

If it's a Paris Visite - marketed for naive tourists - it is almost always overkill -do as StCirq says just buy a carnet of tickets (can be shared with anyone) and walking in Paris can be a joy -carnets are also valid on buses which run several useful routes in Paris.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 03:39 PM
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Honestly, you will lose a full 3 days with travel between locations with this plan. Is it worth it to you? I would also skip Milan on a first trip and add a day to Paris and Rome, or even more fun, how about an overnight in either Siena or Orvieto between Florence and Rome? Just for a peek of the countryside and a hill town?

You will return so take a good look at time transitioning vs time visiting. Then decide if its worth it.

Just as an example: i just returned from a visit to The Netherlands and a Bit of Germany. I was using FF miles so HAD to backtrack to Amsterdam to fly home. Train between Amsterdam and Koblenz Germany was roughly 4.5 hours on the fastest route. Add 30 to 45 min to get to the station and board, make a connection, another hour taxi to car rental place, add 40 minutes to drive to first lodging on the Mosel, and it was nearly a full day.

Just giving this example so you can see how it eats up time when you move.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 08:14 PM
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I don't think it looks bad but would probably eliminate Milan. I'd take the train from Paris to Nice and then think about flying from there to Florence. Train to Rome. Are you flying back home from Rome?

There is a 2 day Paris Museum Pass and, depending upon what you want to see, it might be a good idea to get it. I've used them a couple times and they worked well.

Sounds like a great trip!
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Old May 29th, 2017, 12:26 AM
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If you want to go to France, prefer south part of the country. You can't go wrong in la France méditerranéenne !
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Old May 29th, 2017, 12:35 AM
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The first thing everyone always wants to eliminate is Milan, a city which is one of my favorites.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 02:00 AM
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I'm going to put an opposite view, based on my experience of solo travel when I find that I travel a lot faster than when I'm with DH. By that I mean I tend to pack a lot more into my trip, probably because I have no-one else with whom to linger over breakfast or who wants to go to a particular place that doesn't interest me.

So I think that this is very doable.

I also think that your decision to travel by train is a good one - it always feels to me that you get a much better feel for a place [as well as seeing more] on a train and if you're alone, people are a lot more willing to talk to you, or so I find.

So far as what pass, if any, to go for in Paris, I wouldn't personally divide my days into museums/sightseeing two days, shopping another. I far prefer to mix it up and if I go past a place that interests me I want to see it; and if there's a shop I want to see I'm not going to put it off for another day. I think that when you've got a short time in a place, it's a more efficient way of using your time.

So I would reckon on getting a museum pass that covered me for the whole time, but to use carnets for transport.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 07:52 AM
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The first thing everyone always wants to eliminate is Milan, a city which is one of my favorites.>

but on limited time and first time if you had to pare Milan would be the first to go - it is an interesting if not old-world dreamy city- save it for a 2nd trip.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 08:08 AM
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Thanks for all the wonderful feedback. I spent the weekend researching your advice!
The amount of time on the train between all locations is less than 16 hours and most hotels booked are within 2 miles of the station. I'm not sure how I'm losing three days? I'll be flying into France and leaving from Rome.
I was on the fence about Milan and debating 1) stay a couple nights to see why it's one of the fashion capitals or 2) take a day trip to Venice?

The pass I was thinking about is The City Pass Paris Le Passlib with Travelcard.

Thoughts on taking at least 1 tours in each stop? I was looking through Viator:
Pass for Paris, French Riviera tour in Nice, Venice Trip from Milan, Cinq de Terre from either Nice or Venice. Skip the line passes in rome.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 09:30 AM
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I too would eliminate Milan and add a night to Paris and Florence. I'm not sure what you are going to do with a day of shopping in Paris but that only leaves 2 days to tour Paris so an extra day would be good. Adding a day to Florence allows the opportunity of a day trip to Pisa or Siena etc. I like the south of France but I would replace Nice with Venice and leave the Cote and Provence for another trip. Fly Paris to VCE than easy trains to Florence and Rome.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 09:45 AM
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>>The pass I was thinking about is The City Pass Paris Le Passlib with Travelcard.>The amount of time on the train between all locations is less than 16 hours and most hotels booked are within 2 miles of the station. I'm not sure how I'm losing three days?
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Old May 29th, 2017, 09:50 AM
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I don't like Milan but Bvlenci is a real expert about Italy so I would listen to her. Or read her.
I would not buy a pass for Paris. I would actually cut the museum visits and soak more if the cities.
Have a good trip.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 10:24 AM
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the train ride may only be 3 or 4 hours . . . but packing/unpacking, Checking out/in, traveling to/from the train stations . . . that 3 hour train trip ends up really about 6 hours door to door.>

Yes indeedy - but you can help if you pack up the night before and don't unpack until your first night in new hotel but still you probably want to arrive at train station well before train if you have discounted tickets that are non-changeable, etc.

So yes there is much more than train time itself.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 11:20 AM
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>>but you can help if you pack up the night before and don't unpack until your first night in new hotelwhen one packs/unpacks it is still time one needs to account for (unless you simply live out of your suitcase and never bother). It either uses up time during the morning/afternoon cutting into day time sites, or it is in the evenings cutting into nighttime sites/activities.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 11:42 AM
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I think Milan does have a certain old-world charm, although not a medieval or Renaissance charm. In fact, with its stately 19th century palazzos and its trams, there are parts of the city that remind me of northern European cities like Rotterdam or Frankfurt.

http://milanonotte.it/magazine/wp-co...lano_brera.jpg

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/m...normal_173.jpg

https://www.ilturista.info/myTurista...gli_milano.jpg

http://www.ilpost.it/wp-content/uplo...19-400x267.jpg
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