ks1234

Hi,

We are a young couple from India travelling to Switzerland in Sep, 2015. We plan to travel on our own and extensively use public transport; will be buying the 15-day 2nd Class Swiss Pass. We have both (separately) travelled to Europe before but on guided tours. This is our first trip planning and travelling individually. We prefer activities and adventure over sight-seeing. Looking for inputs and suggestions for the detailed itinerary as described below. We know that we are using more bases than is usually recommended, but we are doing so in order to taken in as many scenic trains as possible. Also, as is evident below, we love mountain excursions! Would really appreciate inputs on practical feasibility of our plans and if some additional sights/activities can easily be undertaken along with the existing.

Itinerary
----------
Day 1 - Fly into Zurich in afternoon, transfer to Lucerne
* Stay in Weggis or Vitznau or Lucerne? (suggestions)
* Go up Mt. Rigi in Evening 5:30 PM to 7:30 PM (possible?) OR sight-seeing in Lucerne - Chapel Bridge, Lion Monument, Old Town
Day 2 - Check Weather, if clear go to Mt. Titlis (interchangeable with Day 3)
* Full-Day at Mt. Titlis
* Para-Gliding in Engelberg
* Return to Lucerne for night
Day 3 - Check Weather, Go up Mt. Pilatus (interchangeable with Day 2)
* Half-Day on Mt. Pilatus
* Post-Lunch go to Transport Museum
* Evening Dinner Cruise on the Lake (worth it?)
Day 4 - Start Early take the Wilhem Tell Express route to Bellinzona (worth taking the official 1st Class trip?)
* Reach Bellinzona around lunch-time (possible to leave luggage at the Station?)
* Explore the 3 Castles
* Transfer to Lugano for the night
Day 5 - In and Around Lugano (suggestions?), night in Lugano
* Travel to Mt. Tamaro spend full-day (adventure + water park), evening walking in Civic Park/Lake Promenade
OR
* Mt. Bre/Mt. San Salvatore for sunrise, on to Swiss Miniatur till lunch, on to Morcote in the evening, on to Foxtown, return late at night
OR
* Mt. Bre for Sunrise, Hike to Gandria during the day, Return by Boat, Mt. San Salvatore for Dinner
OR
* Canyoning Tour Half day, Mt. San Salvatore for dinner
Day 6 - Bernina Express to St. Moritz or Davos (suggestions?)
* Take bus to Tirano, train from there on (is official trip worth it?)
* Spend quiet relaxing evening in St. Moritz or Davos
Day 7 - Glacier Express to Zermatt
* Take Official Glacier Express (worth it?)
* Spend quiet relaxing evening in Zermatt
Day 8 - Full-day in Zermatt, Night in Zermatt
* Start early to go top of Matterhorn Glacier Paradise
* Return by 12:30 PM and take train up to Gornergrat
* While return take an easy hike back to Zermatt (suggestions?)
Day 10 - Sunnega Para-Gliding (if possible) and on to Montreux
* Start Early and go up to Sunnega, para-glide down
* Travel on to Montreux, stay in Vevey or Montreux (suggestions?)
* Post-lunch visit Castle Chillon
* In evening walk among the vineyards at Cully
* Dinner Cruise on Lake (worth it?)
Day 11 - Full-day Gruyeres and night in BO
* Start Early and travel to Gruyeres - Cheese Factory, Castle, HR Giger Museum, Chocolate Factory (Broc)
* Travel on the Golden Pass Line on to Interlakken
* Up the mountains stay in Lauterbrunnen or Wengen or Murren (suggestions?)
Day 12 - Check weather, Up Jungfrau or Schilthorn (suggestions?, having been up multiple mountains is the Jungfrau trip worth the expense?)
* If Jungfrau, then on return do the Hike from Mannlichen to Klein Scheindegg
* If Schilthorn, then on return visit Gimmelwald and the waterfalls in Lauterbrunnen Valley
Day 13 - Adventure in BO (Interchangeable with Day 12)
Do 2 of 3 (suggestions?)
* Canyoning
* White Water Rafting
* Para-Gliding
Day 14 - Lake Brienz, Ballenberg Museum (Interchangeable with Day 12)
* Cruise on Lake Brienz
* Spend leisurely day taking the sights at Ballenberg Museum
* Take late evening train to Zurich, spend night
Day 15 - Fly out of Zurich
* Take morning flight out

PalenQ

wow - what a superbly developed itinerary - as for the Jungfraujoch - would be sweet if not so so expensive and yes you will have seen similar Top of the World scenes already - Schilthorn is a tremenous trip and except for 50% off on a Swiss Pass from Murren to The Schilthorn the rest of the excursion is 100% covered - including the thrilling lift from Lauterbrunnen to Grutschalp and train from there to Murren (also a nice flat few mile stroll on wel-groomed paths)

poke around Murren - you have to walk thru it to get to the long long gondola ride to The Schilthorn/Piz Gloria - the latter the revolving resturant - both were featured in James Bond's On Her Majesty's Secret Service = then cable back down via Murren to Gimmelwald

Gimmelwald is worth a look around - out in the middle of nothing but awesome views of glacier-girdled Alps

then take thrilling firghtening to some gondola that seems to plunge down to the Lauterbrunnen Valley at Stechelberg for postal bus back to Lauterbrunnen (or an easy flat few-mile walk along a bubbling brook) - Trummelbach Falls is just outside Lauterbrunnen - a waterfall inside a cliff - paths wind around it inside so you can get a (slightly wet) glimpse of the torrent.

Both cables completely covered by a Swiss Pass (because they go to a town - Murren -otherwise if they just go to a mountain top they are 50% off).

For lots of goodies on Swiss trains check these IMO susperb sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.swisstravelsystem.com.

Also check VIP seats on the Golden Pass, well worth IMO the extra cost.

kovsie

You have certainly done your homework. I will not be the last to tell you that your programme seems overly full! This is your choice, and I respect your energy, but you may consider adding one slower day somewhere to allow you just to catch your breath.
I would stay in Luzern. It is a beautiful city, and it is easy to do trips from there.

Edward2005

I would probably skip Zermatt or at least be prepared to skip it. The weather is such a dice-roll and there is little else to do in the area if you get a cloudy day. The Bernese Oberland has more to do in the event you catch poor weather. So, I would probably just travel straight through to Montreux and add a couple days to your Lauterbrunnen/Murren/Wegen stay.

On the other hand, the Matterhorn is spectacular on a clear day, so if the forecast looks good, do it!

PalenQ

* Take late evening train to Zurich, spend night>

You could take your bags with you to Meiringen, put them in a station locker or left-luggage - do Ballenberg near Meiringen and then retrieve them and take the Brunig Pass route to Lucerne, which IMO and many would make a better stopover than Zurich - Lucerne is small - spend a day there - take a boat ride on what to me is Switzerland's loveliest lake - check out the Swiss Transport Museums's collection of trains, aerial gondolas, etc. Swiss Passes 1/2 off.

ks1234

Hi,

@ PalenQ - Thanks for inputs while in BO, we may most probably skip Jungfrau and do Schilthorn. How does Grindelwald first compare? Also, Ballenberg visit would probably be our last day and we have to go to Zurich post that to take our flight back. We are not missing out on Lucerne, starting our trip with it actually. Any thoughts on Lugano?

@ kovsie - I do get that this is a very hectic schedule but having been on similar trips before I believe that this in tune with our cadence. Also, we are spending a couple of back to back days taking the Bernina Express & Glacier Express which IMO would be a time to relax. Please suggest otherwise.

@ Edward2005 - Is Zermatt completely worthless when cloudy? I have heard the Gornegrat trip is still pretty good even during overcast conditions. Also, the uniqueness of Zermatt is something that we won't find elsewhere. We are more inclined to skip Montreux (and may be do it as a day trip from Interlakken) and increase days in BO. Any thoughts on Lugano?

Ingo

I agree with the others, well done! A couple of comments:

Day 1: If you really want to go up Mt. Rigi, then stay in either Vitznau or Weggis, otherwise in Luzern. The Rigi trip in the evening is doable, even recommended. The cog railway runs till after sunset.

Day 2 and 3: Nice excursions, sort of *must* do. However, the weather check plus "interchangeable" doesn't help, as you need good (sunny, only few clouds) for BOTH excursions. You need one alternative for rain. Which means I'd do the Mt. Rigi evening trip on Day 1 and save the possible museums/sightseeing tour of Luzern for Day 2 or 3. As you have a lake cruise planned for Day 4, I would skip the evening dinner cruise.

Day 4: No, I wouldn't upgrade to 1st class. 2nd class is fine, same views. Yes, you can store the luggage at the station in Bellinzona.

Day 5: I'd do the Monte Salvatore trip (early start), but hike via Gandria (Park San Grato, church Madonna d'Ongero) to Morcote, do Swissminiature eventually on the way back.

Days 6 to 8: Too rushed. The Bernina Express is one of the highlights. No need to travel with the official express trains, the regional trains 2nd class are fine. Definitely stay in St. Moritz area (Pontresina highly recommended) for two nights. I'm torn on Zermatt. Totally depends on the weather. With low hanging clouds it can even be depressing in my experience. The town itself is overbuilt with hotels and apartment complexes - what's unique about that? Just the views of the gorgeous mountains.

What's with Day 9?

As for the BO - stay in Lauterbrunnen or Wengen (I like the latter best). The hike Männlichen - Kleine Scheidegg is recommended only in that direction. Otherwise you have the stunning mountain scenery in the back.

swandav2000

Hi ks1234,

I'm also not sure what you think is unique about Zermatt. If you want a car-free place, then you can choose to stay in the village Wengen or Mürren in the Oberland, or in Sils in the Engadin Valley.

If you want a town full of upscale shops, then you can stay in St Moritz or in Gstaad.

Otherwise, Zermatt has what almost every Swiss mountain town has -- views of the mountains. If you're going just to see the Matterhorn, then you need to have clear skies, and that might be hard with just 1 1/2 days there.

I will admit that I didn't care much for Zermatt -- I thought it was overcrowded with both people and with buildings, as Ingo notes. The town sits at the end of a valley, so there is nowhere to build, and yet they continue to add hotels and apartments. The resulting look isn't attractive at all, as buildings just crowd atop one another higgledy-piggledy.

Of course, lots of folks do love Zermatt -- ! I guess that's why they need so many hotels, etc.

To my mind, Montreux will complete your round of cultures in Switzerland. You will visit the German, Romansch, and Italian areas, so missing Montreux will leave you short of the French section of Switzerland. I think you should be sure to keep Montreux rather than spend more time in another German/mountain area.

Have fun as you plan!

s

kja

You have already heard from the experts, so all I'm adding is a few very minor notes:

"Reach Bellinzona around lunch-time (possible to leave luggage at the Station?)"

Should work! Here's the link that shows, on the first tab, the manned luggage service and, not the next tab (under "equipment"), the lockers.
http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-service...osid.5213.html

If you make it to Bellinzona, consider trying to make time for Santa Maria delle Grazie -- it's recently restored murals are worth seeing IMO!

"we may most probably skip Jungfrau and do Schilthorn'

That's what I did, and I have no regrets. But of course, I can't say how I would feel if I HAD visited Jungfrau!

"Definitely stay in St. Moritz area (Pontresina highly recommended) for two nights."

I loved my time in Pontresina! Consider making time for Muottas Muralg.

Enjoy!

neckervd

Zermatt:
It doesn't make sense to go to both, Matterhorn Paradise (Kleinmatterhorn) AND Gornergrat.

Bernina Express itinerary:
there is a famous glacier world close to the Bernina railway line (gondola from Bernina Diavolezza to Diavolezza) regularly overseen by overseas tourists.

Glacier Express line:
Leave the Glacier Express train at Andrmatt and go by Post Bus OVER Furka and Grimsel Pass to Meiringen, then by train to Brienz/Interlaken, add your Bernese Oberland program, continue then by Goldenpass train to Gruyeres/Montreux and then to Zermatt and take a direct train from Visp (Zermatt) to Zurich airport the last day.

PalenQ

Or leave the GE at Andermatt and take the shuttle train down to Goschenen and catch the Sisten Pass postal bus to Meiringen - may be quicker depending on schedules?

Anyway a neat route into and out of the Jungfrau Region.

WeisserTee

I will address only your plans for Lugano:

Foxtown: unless you're a serious fashion shopper and willing to give it at least a few hours, skip it. Also, go early (it opens at 11 am). You do NOT want to arrive in the middle of a Saturday afternoon, it's a mob scene. Now, if you do really want to put this in your plans, I'm happy to give you more details -- I'm probably the Fodors Foxtown expert, having been there several times. A group of five work friends have already set in motion our plans for our next three-day trip to Lugano with an entire day set aside for Foxtown.

Restaurants: There are three restaurants in Lugano that I always try to fit in my trip. The first is the well-known Bottegone del Vino. A wine bar/restaurant combo. Excellent wine selection, usually very good food. Lively and fun. Reservations almost always needed. Ask for a small table rather than seats at the large communal table (can be awkward if you're stuck in the middle). You can eat outside but we never do. Lugano's weather is fickle and some really spectacular t-storms with gusty winds and downpours can blow up on fairly short notice.

Next on our list is Ristorante AnaCapri near the train station. We usually go there for late lunch before catching the train home. Amazing views. We tend to eat outside at a view table that's under cover. Good food, very good wine selection. Pizzas are popular but their menu offers much more than that. http://www.anacapri.ch/

Our third favorite is by far the least known of the three: Pescheria Ristorante Ichthys. A fish store/restaurant. You choose the fish and the chef recommends how to prepare it. Very informal. We had reservations but I don't if they're really needed. However, better to be safe than sorry. We love this place and it's well off the usual tourist radar. http://www.ichthys-lugano.com/it/ CAUTION: according to a few Italian language reviews on TripAdvisor, the staff have changed and the restaurant may have suffered from it (our last visit was in October 2014).

To get away from the traffic and noise of the busy lakefront in Lugano, make sure you go to the large city park, which is also along the lake. It's beautiful, calm and serene.

Have fun on your trip!

ks1234

Hi All,

Thank you all for much love.

@ Ingo - Thanks for the great inputs. From what I gather, Zermatt could be iffy because of the weather and much better to spend a couple of days in Grisons and skip Zermatt. Well, 7 8 9.

@ Swandav2000 - Car-free, beautiful swiss chalets, highest number of 4000's made Zermatt seem pretty unique. But, I hear you, weather may play a big role here. We may choose to do 2 days in Pontresina/ St. Moritz instead. Any suggestions for excursions? My thoughts exactly on completing the tour of all cultures, that is how this itinerary got developed in the first place.

@ kja, neckervd - Thanks for the inputs. Why wouldn't it make sense doing both matterhorn paradise and Gornergrat bahn? Two great rides are better than one, aren't they? Also, I have not heard about this route into Jungfrau region via Meiringen, pray elaborate.

@ Weisertee - Thanks for the inputs. We are were thinking of doing foxtown late in the evening (say 7PM onwards), is that something that can be done? Wife may like the trip there. Though food is something that we may enjoy in Lugano but we were looking at prioritising some excursions, any ideas on that?

Karan

PalenQ

Swiss boats I've taken hav a first- and a second-class section with the first-class usually IME being the open-air top deck - much much more preferable to me than lower decks or the back deck - if you have a 2nd class Swiss Pass you can pay IME on board for the upgrade to first class, which also is much much less crowded usually than 2nd class areas.

BarbAnn

OK, call me crazy, but I love Zermatt. I have been up Klein Matterhorn four times and Gornergrat once. Both have fabulous views from a different perspective. Every time I have stayed in Zermatt (Oct.x2, Nov. and June), I have always had at least one day where I saw views of the Matterhorn. I still find the village quaint. Stay father back in the village from the "main" street and you can envision how the locals live.

Cloudy weather would not stop me from going up to Jungfrajoch. I went up the first time when it was cloudy and it was clear at the top. The view was of the peaks above the clouds, but I felt like I was on top of Everest. So surreal.

Have a great trip!

WeisserTee

"We are were thinking of doing foxtown late in the evening (say 7PM onwards)"

Foxtown closes at 7 pm, so that is definitely not doable.

PalenQ

http://www.foxtown.com/

for those others naive about Foxtown in Lugano - it is a modern shopping mall - factory outlets it seems.

http://www.foxtown.com/

PalenQ

P S can't imagine anything in Switzerland being cheaper than Italy just a few miles away - I admit total cluelessness about Foxtown but can Switzerland really be as cheap as Italy?

Enlighten me por favore (sp?)

neckervd

"Why wouldn't it make sense doing both matterhorn paradise and Gornergrat bahn?"

From Gornergrat, you will see more or less the same mountains than from Kleinmatterhorn (called Matterhorn Paradise in order to sell it to foreign people), except those of Aosta Valley.

You will waste just 2 hrs (and 90 USD) in the middle of the day with your transfer from Kleinmatterhorn to Gornergrat.
I find it much more enjoyable to hike from Trockener Steg to Schwarzsee (both stations of the Kleinmatterhorn cableway), first along 5 glacier lakes and at the end over grass and alpine flora to another lake and Restaurant from where you can go down by cableway (about 3 hrs hike).

" I have not heard about this route into Jungfrau region via Meiringen"
Meiringen IS in the Bernese Oberland from where you can easily cross the Alps over different Passes:
Susten Pass (Post Bus)
Grimsel Pass (Post Bus)
Loetschen Pass (Gasterntal Bus, Lauchernalp gondola, Loetschental Bus and about 5 hrs hike)
Gemmi Pass (2 gondolas and 3 hrs hike)
Rawil Pass (Iffigenalp Bus, 2 gondolas and 4 hrs hike)
Sanetsch Pass (gondola, Post bus and 1 hr hike)
Col du Pillon (Post Bus)

neckervd

"But, I hear you, weather may play a big role here. We may choose to do 2 days in Pontresina/ St. Moritz instead"

What do you mean with that?

Wheather is unpredictable EVERYWHERE in the Alps. The canton of Valais (where Zermatt lies) has less rain than all other Swiss cantons and is certainly drier than the Bernese Jungfrau area.

As a general rule, along high peaks, it can get more cloudy and rainy than in the midlands.

If the weather is fine, it's best to stay in remote high mountain areas. If the weather is bad, one should have a plan B. The latter is much easier in bigger towns a bit away from the Alps (with a lot of other sights and attractions than nature) or at transport hubs between different climate zones (like Brig).