leoton

Hi everyone!
We are planning a 11 nights trip in mid-May 2012. Flying into Brussels and back from Amsterdam. Would love your advice on the itinerary in between. We are a couple in our 40s, love sightseeing, walking, and getting to know different cultures. We prefer convenience and would rather take day trips than spending time packing/unpacking, but want to see as much as we can while having a balanced vacation.
Here is our preliminary itinerary:
Our flight to Brussels arrives on Friday, so we were thinking of staying 3-4 nights there, taking advantage of lower weekend hotel prices and possibly taking 1 or 2 day trips during that time (Ghent, Luxembourg?). After that, either Bruges and/or Anwerp for 2-3 more nights and move up to Amsterdam, staying there the last 4-5 nights, taking day trips (any suggestions?) from there too. We are not planning to rent a car, so will use trains.
Would appreciate any feedback - we are pretty flexible and still can change plans if we see something appealing.
Thanks in advance!

bardo1

Actually, you can do this trip very nicely and balanced with just TWO home bases - one in Belgium (6 nights) and one in the Netherlands (5 nights).

Consider these short train times:
Brussels to Antwerp, 1 hour
Brussels to Ghent, 30 minutes
Brussels to Bruges, 1 hour
Antwerp to Ghent, 45 minutes
Antwerp to Bruges, 1 hour 20 minutes
Ghent to Bruges, 25 minutes

So.... Brussels OR Antwerp OR Gent would all make for a good home base. Pick one depending on your taste.

Amsterdam is the only logical choice for your Netherlands home base. You could spend the entire 5 nights there and have plenty to see and do, but if you want to do a day trip(s), it is also the place with the most direct train connections to other towns in the country.

As you've hinted at, you do NOT need a car for this trip.

Also, be aware that Brussels to Luxembourg is over 3 hours one-way. If it's a top priority, then it IS doable as a day trip but it is a very LONG day...

Vttraveler

I agree with the last post--it makes sense to stay in Amsterdam and one city in Belgium and take day trips. I have finished most of a trip report on a trip my husband and I took to Belgium in the fall. Brussels was a great location for us but antwerp or Ghent would work, too. You have already figured out that hotel prices in Brussels are lower on the weekends.

I have been to Luxembourg and although I liked the city I would not rate it as high as many of the cities in Belgium or the Netherlands.

leoton

Bardo1 and Vttraveler - great points, thank you! Would you recommend more time in Belgium or in the Netherlands? We have 11 nights so would it make more sense to have 5 in Brussels and 6 in Amsterdam with all potential day trips or vice versa? Also, would you recommend getting the rail passes? Thanks again!

Russ

A'dam daytrips:

Zaanse Schans: http://www.zaanseschans.nl/ (use station Koog-Zaandijk)

Check into Volendam, Marken, Monnickendam, and Hoorn as well.

bardo1

Even with 11 nights, you'll be cutting most visits short - and that's OK (you would need two months!)

6/5 or 5/6 - there's no right answer. You need to do some reading, decide what you want see (make a list!), and make this decision for yourself.

Here's a start - some guidebooks from the library would be better:

http://www.fodors.com/world/europe/belgium/

http://www.fodors.com/world/europe/netherlands/

Do come back for final tweaks/opinions after some research...

Vttraveler

I don't have a strong feeling about how many nights to plan for each country. There is plenty to see in either location.

I am not sure whether rail passes would be cost effective for you. In Belgium the 10 trip pass is a good deal if you are going to take multiple longer trips
http://www.b-rail.be/nat/E/tarifs/passes/rail/

I am surprised no one has posted yet to say that you should definitely plan to stay overnight in Brugge--it is a popular destination for people who use this forum.

One thing I didn't mention in my first post: I think that in Belgium it is interesting to visit one city in Flanders and one in French-speaking Walonia

Geonev

leotan, I endorse limiting yourself to two cities for overnights. Amsterdam is indeed the logical choice for Netherlands. As for Belgium, I and many of my friends find Brussels uninteresting and off-putting. This is a personal thing, but I am not the only one. I just don't find its ambiance or architecture to be appealing. I know many other people like Brussels; I am not one of them.

Do visit Brussels on a day trip, but sleep in Bruges (my choice) or Ghent. Bruges is lovely and atmospheric. Ghent has many pretty sections but is larger and more industrial than Bruges. (Antwerp would be my third choice as an excursion center, but it, too, is rather large and less charming than either Bruges or Ghent.)

I also agree that Luxembourg is too far and the payout is not there.

I escorted a small group to Benelux three months ago (12 nights total). If you would like to see the day-by-day itinerary, with some sightseeing ideas, follow this link: www.intimatefrance.com/2011_benelux_detail.html
From there you can download the itinerary as a PDF.

BTW, if you have a chance to make a day trip from Amsterdam, Haarlem is nearby and delightful. Also, in the Hague, the Mauritshuis Museum was one of my clients' favorites, with magnificent art, including "Girl With a Pearl Earring" by Vermeer. Finally, Delft is also a possible day trip from Amsterdam and probably my favorite Dutch town, as it is so pretty.

Michael

I would stay in Brussels wimply because it is more difficult to grasp a large city in one day than a town such as Bruges. Brussels has quite a bit to offer: the Grand'Place thanks to Louis XIV's destructive campaign and a lot of Art Nouveau buildings, especially Victor Horta's private residence, now a museum. I agree with Bardo1 that checking into guidebooks might make the task of choosing easier.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7622960216715/

Michael

wimply = simply

zeppole

you will of course get all sorts of opinions, but if you are persuaded that you staying in one "base" and getting on trains every day is really want you want, then give some consideration in Belgium in what kind of food experience you want at night. I have found Antwerp to the best, Brussels a close second, and Gent and Bruges a distant last.

Speaking for the minority viewpoint (my own), I prefer to be able to go back to my hotel during the day if I feel like it, to have a leisurely breakfast without worrying I need to catch a train by 10am to make a day trip "worth it." I like to stop and sit down after touring a museum at a cafe or a cocktail bar, rather than have another train to catch back to the "base". If I'm going to spend 5 nights in one lodging other than my home, I'd rather rent an apartment than be in a hotel room.

I'm with Geonev that Brussels is a grating city, but agree with Michael that the Grande Place and the Horta museum are the high points. You can do both in a single day. I really disliked Bruges, but others adore it. Antwerp is my all around favorite, and while Gent is a charmer, and probably a wonderful place to live, I don't think it has many good restaurants, not in comparison with the other places in Belgium you've mentioned.

I quite enjoyed visiting Den Haag when I stayed in Amsterdam, for its several unusual art museums, including the Panorama Mesdag.

zeppole

PS: I cannot emphasize too strongly that you look at real-time train schedules, hotel locations and what you really want to do for your tour before committing to the idea of a "base" and "day trips." It works fine for people who get up 7am or don't eat breakfast, who book hotels next to train stations, don't mind being stuck so far from their hotel from morning until dinner time, and who don't much care about hanging out in train station rather than cafes at the apertivo hour.

But I have known people who booked "bases" and planned on lots of day trips only to discover that by the time they actually arrived at their day trip destination, they were sightseeing for only about an hour before it was time for lunch. 90 minutes later, they are back out sightseeing, but they were looking at their watch to make sure they were headed back to the station by 4:30 or 5 in order to catch that train that would get them back to the 'base" in time for dinner.

Knowing that it only takes a train 45 minutes or 120 minutes to get from one station to another isn't as important in planning your trip as knowing what morning train you would feel relaxed about taking and what evening train gets you back to your hotel or restaurant for an enjoyable dinner -- and whether there is really enough time in between, minus lunch, to enjoy the place you "daytripped" to.

If you can't stand switching hotels, then of course you want a "base". If you are flexible about that, there are real advantages to staying in the towns you want to experience.

bardo1

Well after saying to make your own "base" choice, I'm going to go ahead and recommend Antwerp as a Belgium home base (since others have chimed in...)

Antwerp has endless things to do in the evenings, offers excellent choices for trains to other place (2-3 per hour), and has some lovely neighborhoods to chose from. My 2 cents.

Vttraveler

I think zeppole makes some good points about how logistics for day trips can be challenging. However, moving around has its negative aspects, too. There is more packing and unpacking and you have to spend some time checking in at each new hotel. There are the same problems with having to get up and moving early in the morning in order to have enough time for sight seeing later in the day. And there is the question of where to store luggage before you can check in.

As I mentioned in my trip report, we stayed at an apartment in Brussels so getting a quick breakfast or eating a late light dinner was easy if we wanted to do that. We don't like to eat both a big lunch a big dinner on the same day. And we found that no one goes out to dinner much before 7:30 in Brussels. We did feel that we could easily have spent much several days rather than a long day trip in Antwerp or Tournai. Mechelen, Leuven and Ghent (visited on an earlier trip) were much easier to visit in one day.

I am sure you can figure out whether it makes sense for you to stay in one place or move around more.

In defense of Brussels, I would say there is MUCH more to see and do than the Grand Place and a brief walking tour of some of the Art Nouveau buildings. Lots of great museums and interesting neighborhoods. Antwerp is also a fascinating city and I could easily see spending your time there. For me, Brugge is a little "twee." It is beautiful and has great architecture and I am sure it is especially charming in the evenings and early mornings before it gets really crowded but I would pick a lively city for a place to stay. (Note that I live in a very quiet rural area so am probably more inclined to pick cities for vacations than others who want a more relaxing pace)

leoton

Great discussion everyone, thank you so much! Zeppole, I totally see your points, however cannot agree more with Vttraveler on time lost and hassle packing/unpacking, traveling with luggage, etc... When you have only limited number of days, those travel days hurt the most and we would love to minimize them. Since we are flying into Brussels, it looks like we will use it as our base, at least it sounds more convenient. Also, sounds like that Luxembourg didn't get much love here - plus it is pretty far away for a day trip. It leaves Bruges, Ghent, Antwerp, and one more day trip (still to be decided) plus a day or so to explore Brussels before we move on to Amsterdam (still working on the plan in there).
Again, thank you everyone and Happy New Year! Please do keep suggestions coming, Would definitely appreciate any feedback!

Vttraveler

Mechelen and Leuven are very easy and interesting day trips from Brussels. I would recommend staying flexible about going to locations other than Brugge, Ghent and Antwerp in the short time you have available. There is a lot to see in Brussels itself.

lavandula

Picking up on what Vttraveler suggested earlier, you might consider Dinant as an interesting visit in Wallonia. It's very picturesque (think dramatic cliffs and onion-shaped domes) and you could spend a day there. An easy trip from Brussels.

Also I am one of the Luxembourg defenders. I like it but make it a stopover on your way elsewhere (Trier, perhaps). Bring your walking shoes as the old town is in a valley. Very pretty.

Vttraveler is right about Brussels. Most people don't get past the centre and are consequently disappointed because they are hoping for a mediaeval city. If you are prepared to catch one of the excellent trams you can get out into the suburbs where the best examples of Art Nouveau can be found. St Gilles is full of Art Nouveau houses and there are trams right through there. You can get information from the tourist centre about Art Nouveau tours as well, which might save you some effort

Lavandula