Jean

(I posted this first in the Lounge but decided to duplicate post here...)

We took a great trip through the WWI battlefields in Eastern France last year, and I've been promoting the area to my history-loving friends. After reading this article, I want to return and explore some more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/tr...=30459607&_r=1

kerouac

It's not 100 years yet. The Americans did not bother to enter the war for several years.

nukesafe

A wonderful and sensitive artical, Jean! Thank you.

nukesafe

"Article" not "artical"

kerouac

Yesterday commemorated the day of 22 August 1914 which was the bloodiest day in history for the French army. More than 27,000 soldiers died that day along the Belgian border. In the Belgian village of Rossignol, 7000 French soldiers died, more than during the entire 8 years of the Algerian war of independence. 40,000 French soldiers died in a 6-day period.

Yay for the American army waiting until April 2, 1917. Better late than never.

sandralist

I was surprised to find that the writing style of the article really annoyed me. I somewhat agree with the premise of the article -- that many Americans have fallen for a false right-wing line about France and "ungrateful" Europeans -- when in fact one repeatedly encounters embarrassing expressions of gratitude towards Americans (embarrassing to me because I was born long after WW2 and did nothing to liberate Europe!)

Not long ago on an Italian train a somewhat elderly German man recounted to me how much he appreciated the Berlin airlift as a 4 year old child and said it had permanently colored his view of America and Americans in a positive way. He still felt that way even when he learned in school that Americans bombs had destroyed his family home and killed many people he knew. When he was old enough to travel the first place he went was a road trip all around America -- and he said he liked everyone he met.

So this line some politicians and pot-stirrers push about unappreciative or insufficiently admiring Europeans doesn't withstand the test of actually talking to a variety of Europeans.

bilboburgler

"Americans have been conditioned by nearly a century of British revisionist histories to believe that the United States didn’t do much in World War I"

irritated by this article, what does this even mean? Not even sure how you would measure contribution. I offer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties just look at those statistics... but do they measure "doing much"?

Huggy

Kerouac:

Good that you did not need the Americans in 1917 and again 24 years later. And you served your country when?

I would assume that you are upset that many Americans did not show their passports at the French border control during those same times!

Sorry, this stuff irritates me to no end! It does not belong in a travel forum. And finally, you are off my Christmas card list.

Jean

Kerouac,

To start, this wasn't 'our' war. We had no defense treaties with the countries involved, and public opinion overwhelmingly supported neutrality, especially in the large German-American, Irish-American (anti-British) and Swedish-American communities. Our Civil War had ended 50 years earlier, and the loss of nearly 700,000 men in that conflict had not been forgotten.

It was the German's sinking of several U.S. merchant ships in early 1917 that really turned public opinion, and after the U.S. declared war in April 1917, naval forces and ground troops began arriving in Europe within weeks.

We weren't ready to wage war on this scale in 1914. We didn't have the practice that all you Europeans had. We had no large, trained, standing army; we weren't a world military power and only recently had become an industrial power. Even if we'd had masses of troops and material at the ready we didn't have the means to transport them quickly to Europe.

When the U.S. declared war on Germany, my great-uncle left his university after graduation ceremonies and enlisted in a previously non-existent U.S. Air Service. He had to learn how to fly a plane, be transported to France, wait for aircraft to be delivered, learn how to pilot the specific planes provided and work with mechanics to resolve problems with inferior propellers and spark plugs. And yet, he was flying over enemy territory just 10 months after enlisting. Eight months after arriving in the war zone, he was shot down and died on French soil... You're welcome. Sorry he took so long.

PatrickLondon

Sorry, but I'm afraid the simplistic tone of that article leaves itself open to that sort of reaction, especially if you factor in the complexities of relations between the Allies over the peace settlement.

Pvoyageuse

' especially if you factor in the complexities of relations between the Allies over the peace settlement '

And the fact that the Versailles Treaty planted the seeds for WW2.

Michael

<i> We didn't have the practice that all you Europeans had. </i>

What practice since 1871, just six years after the end of the Civil War? Colonial wars, just like the U.S. with Cuba and the Philippines?

kerouac

There is always a delicate balance between people who justifiably feel that they have done something admirable and the sudden switch into <i>now you have to kiss my feet</i> mode.

My French family lost everything in the wars but unfortunately in WW2 it was to American bombs.

Josser

British revisionist histories, forsooth? According to Hollywood, a solitary American airman won the Battle of Britain. Americans captured the Enigma machine, even before America entered the war. My old dad had the Burma Star. His opinion of Hollywood on that campaign was unrepeatable.
I'm always amazed at how ordinary French people and villages risked their liberty and even their lives to shelter British servicemen and their Jewish neighbours.

Cowboy1968

Just in case you'll still be traveling to Europe this year:
In several capital cities and elsewhere you find dedicated expositions to showcase the history of WWI in the respective countries or regions.

Like this one in Brussels for Belgium:
http://www.expo14-18.be/en
Or in Berlin:
https://www.dhm.de/en/ausstellungen/...world-war.html
Or at several locations in the UK:
http://www.1914.org
Or in France:
http://centenaire.org/fr

sparkchaser

<i>It was the German's sinking of several U.S. merchant ships in early 1917 that really turned public opinion...</i>

Add to that behind the scenes pressure from Big Business who stood to lose billions of dollars should France and Britain fall.

kerouac

Meanwhile, today is the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Paris. You will all recall that the American military command ordered the French and British armies to remove all black soldiers from the divisions involved so that no people of color would appear in any of the photographs.

kerouac

Oops -- sorry, tomorrow is the celebratory date, which is also accessible to black people, unlike the original date. It's a shame that history has so many secrets that people have tried to erase.

nytraveler

Great info. We did not focus on WWI = but on WWII when we traveled through Belgium and Luxembourg since that was my parents war (father, his brother, my mothers' two bothers and numerous cousins of both sexes all saw action - the men all in europe - and thank god all come through - although one cousin was in the Battle of the Bulge and nearly didn't make it).

And no, the AEF wasn't there at the beginning for a whole variety of political reasons - but did turn the tide when they arrived. One of my grandfathers served there - he was a courier (motorcycle since electronic communications were not reliable) and was under fire almost day in and out - but again - came through unscathed physically if not mentally (he would never talk about it to his wife or kids).

iris1745

Really kerouak; Shall we talk about Jean Leguay?

Was he one of your hero's during WW2?

Oh, was he an American??

Do you want to talk about him?

You had family killed by American bombs during WW2. Very sad, but where does hatred stop?