You asked! I think it's crazy considering the cities you have listed. You'll spend a good portion of your trip just traveling between destinations. Are you trying to cross cities off of a 'must see' list? I leave in two weeks for a 17 day trip and we're not leaving Italy.

What is in each of your destinations that makes you want to travel there?

Slow down a little instead of doing an amazing race...but that's just my opinion.

Yes of course it is. Twenty days and ten cities is only two days each, not counting travel between. So essentially you'd be spending just about half your vacation traveling. Certainly possible but most people would not find it at all enjoyable. You would probably find yourself frustrated that you'd get somewhere and then have to leave again without time to see anything. And travel between cities is more tiring than sightseeing so the whole vacation would be completely unrelaxing.

I'm not a "slow" traveler - I do like to move around on most trips, and I find nothing wrong with one or two night stays - as long as they are mixed in with longer stays. But your plan doesn't make sense - you are literally all over the map. At most I'd pick three areas/countries. Then you can do more than one city in each if you want. If you haven't bought your tickets yet then do open jaw - don't fly both into and out of Italy. Put it at one end. Of the cities you mention (I've been to all of them) Milan and Cologne have the least interesting sites so I would drop them. A week split between Rome and Venice with a day trip or two to smaller towns is good. Then I pick either Spain or Belgium/Amsterdam for a week, and then a week in Paris. Most people on this board will tell you even that is too much (and I agree but I'm trying to consider your original plan).

Do you think that the world is your mother? Get off your lazy behind and do your own reseach.

If people want information about a specific place or plan, that's one thing. But it's amazing thew number of similar posts that appear on these boards. People unwilling to putout the energy required to read a book or do a simple search expect everyone else to spoon feed them answers to everything. The only thing worse is people who respond to such posts and reinforce their their laziness.

travelfan1, i feel like this is once in a lifetime chance to go to Europe so I want to grab the chance to see everything. too much right? I guess I can cross out Milan and Brugge.

The more days I spend in a city, the more I get lazy to go around. I only want to see the best spots, anyway.

I wish I had more time like you!

You're unlikely to get many useful replies about this question. There's a strong Fodorist Correctness lobby that will just tell you you're crazy, without spending a second wondering what and why you're trying to do.

Far more useful than asking this question, I'd suggest you do the following:

1. Sketch out your detailed timetable by train, using www.bahn.de
2. For journeys over 200 miles, do the same by cheap flights, using www.whichbudget.com
3. Make sensible assumptions about how long it'll take to get to and from airports and railway stations, and to wait for bags.
4. Having done this: ask yourself whether you can see what you want to see comfortably (you've decided you want to see Brussels. So you must have some idea why. And if it's just to gawp at the Mannekinpiss, 10 minutes is more than sufficient). If not, prune.
5. At that point, you'll have an itinerary you're comfortable with - and that's the only opinion that counts. Now come back for advice about specifics.

Ask a specific question here, and you'll get useful advice Ask something that invites unsolicited opinions about how to organise your life and you'll decide your mother in law is a quiet, self-effacing, mine of positive joy by comparison.

Hi Isabel. My aunt lives in Cologne so I really have to go there. I only bought my plane ticket JED-ROM-JED and the rest is up to me if I want to stay in one place. I would conisder your advice, I'm staying 5 nights in Paris, 3 nights each in Rome and Barcelona, 2 nights on the rest of the cities that require 2-3 hours train travel. I'm not bringing a lot so I can travel easily. Now I'm considering crossing out another city! Thanks!


Hi Imhornet, thanks for your email but you didn't have to be rude. One or two tips will do from a fellow traveller. Don't think I don't do my own research.

Hi flanneruk, I will visit the sites you gave. I don't see the importance of seeing the Mannekinpiss, there are so many like that in Manila. I can even see it live.

I really like your response! Thanks

And from now on I would be more specific with my topic and questions. ^_^

Hi C,

You are making the usual newbie mistake of trying to do everything in one rushed, harried, exhausting and overwhelming visit. It is an itinerary laid out by a tourist agency.

3 weeks will allow you to see 3 major destinations and enjoy them.

>Milan-Venice-Cologne-Amsterdam-Brussels-Brugge-Paris-Madrid-Barcelona-Rome<
At leat you know to make a circle.

I suggest Italy (Venice, Florence, Rome) or
Paris and France (Paris and either Burgundy, Alsace, Dordogne or Provence) or
Spain or
Germany.

Enjoy your planning.

If the question, is "Am I doing too much?" the answer is yes without reading it.

Like the others think of a max of two countries.

Since you already have your tickets into and out of Rome, and must visit Cologne, I suggest the following:

Look into an economy flight from Rome to Cologne and go there first. Then visit Amsterdam and Brussels, on to Paris for several days, Barcelona then Italy for the rest of your time. It is still a lot of travel but your flight schedule makes it difficult to avoid that. Look into economy flights from Rome to Cologne, Paris to Barcelona and Barcelona to Venice.

Next time, seek advice first and we will suggest an open-jaw arrangement which will save travel time.

<< I want to grab the chance to see everything >>

You won't see very much with this itinerary. I don't think you've considered that it takes at least a day to get acclimated to a major city and the time you'll spend getting turned around and lost. There's also the time getting to and from train stations and packing and unpacking.

But everyone travels differently and some people don't mind going to a town/city and not seeing very much as long as they can say they've been there.

Where to go in each city depends on your interests. There's no point in people giving you a list of sights as you may not be interested in them. I'm wondering why you want to go to these specific cities if you don't know what there is to see once you get there.

Definitely do what Flanneruk suggests. Flying may be a better option, and there are definitely cheap flights within Europe. Some of those train rides are LONG. Barcelona to Rome for one. My daughter and friends did a 6 week trip last summer and visited 7 destinations. Even at that, they wished they could have spent more time in some of the places. They ended up mostly flying because the train options didn't work well with their itinerary. They did use the train a couple of times.

You really need to look at a map, look at the websites suggested and take the advice of others here. Cut back you destinations to no more than 5.

Flanneruk has the logical way of looking at it. Plot it out precisely.

Train #123 9:42AM, arrive Amsterdam 11:38...taxi to hotel, arrive 12:15.....leave hotel at 8:30 Am to get to train station for 9:15.

I think you will find that a lot of time is spent 'going' and less than you thought 'seeing'. This means moving on, even if you find one city fascinating, because your train and hotel in the next city awaits.

I'm more of a "being in" than "seeing" a place. But if this is your only foreseable trip for a while....

Imhornet, thanks for the chuckle.

LSKY; Imhornet is more like a 'hornet'.

My suggestion would be to skip Madrid and Barcelona.

Arrive in Rome - no not stay overnight.
You can find a cheap flight to Amsterdam from Rome - try www.kayak.com

Amsterdam 3 nights
Brussels with a day trip to Brugges 3 nights
Cologne via train 2 nights
Paris 3 nights
Night train to Venice 2 nights
Milan 2 nights
Florence 2 nights
Rome 3 nights.

I need useful tips on places to go, clothing, rail passes and getting around.>

Without pontificating on just how much you should do in 3 weeks, save to say it's the kind of itinerary that i love - moving around on trains is my bag and i think if you axed Spain no one could say it was too ambitious - well some of the Fodorgarchs deem you must stay weeks in places like Paris or Rome or not go at all - anyway for great info about trains and railpasses i always highlight these spiffy sites: www.ricksteves.com; www. seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free, and superb IMO, European Planning & Rail Guide that has rail itineraries for each country. I love to take overnight trains where you can relocated literally from one end of Europe to the other overnight and also digest flanneruk's advice about mixing in some flights from long-haul legs. As for railpasses for wide-ranging multi-country rail trips some kind of Eurailpass makes sense and gives you the ultimate flexibility to change course as you go along.

"You won't see very much with this itinerary. I don't think you've considered that it takes at least a day to get acclimated to a major city and the time you'll spend getting turned around and lost. There's also the time getting to and from train stations and packing and unpacking.

But everyone travels differently and some people don't mind going to a town/city and not seeing very much as long as they can say they've been there."

Absolutely agree.
I take carry on luggage only, take taxis from and to most airports and train stations, have already been to all but two of the mentioned cities, and would still not attempt follow the OP's timetable.
Travelers often concentrate on nights in a location; what is more interesting to me is a day time and how much of it is spend at train station, airports, checking in and out, unpacking..etc. and how much time is left for seeing (huge) cities like Paris, Rome and Madrid.

<The more days I spend in a city, the more I get lazy to go around. I only want to see the best spots, anyway.>

In my experience, getting what you call lazy in a city is a great way to really experience it, what life is like there. So maybe it would be fun to give yourself this opportunity in one of the cities, Paris for example has a great feel. Just a thought.
What for your are the "best things"?. Art, architecture, food, history/
If you make such indications we can better advise.

I understand the desire to see everything - I've only been to Europe twice and on my first trip, we started out with a giant itinerary and then ended up trimming it down significantly. We only had 10 days, which we ended up spending entirely in southern Germany. Our flights were in and out of Munich and at first we thought we would also go to Paris and Amsterdam and Fuessen - or maybe through Switzerland and Italy. UNTIL we started researching Munich and realized how much we wanted to see just in Munich - the 2 days I originally planned just wasn't going to do it. And we started researching transportation and realized how much time we'd spend getting from one place to another if we kept all these places in our itinerary.

So we decided that we should see fewer places but spend more time in the places we did go - and if it was our "once in a lifetime" trip to Europe, at least we would have really seen the places we did get to. Turns out, as soon as we took that trip, I was totally hooked and vowed to go back again and again. We took our second trip last year and have a third planned for 2011. We hope to be able to go back to Europe every 3 or 4 years. Not as often as many on this board, but we all have to work within our financial framework.

Bratsandbeer has given you a reasonable plan that allows the most time for sightseeing with the least travel time. However, I would take it one step further.

Except for Brugges, you have mostly large or busy places. Getting away from that would give you a different experience. That is why I would skip Milan and add one of those days to Paris and one to Florence. The extra day in Paris, go to Versailles - great chateau, wonderful gardens, small town. The extra day in Florence, go to Sienna - lovely hill town with stunning piazza.

Another option would be to add both days to Rome and visit Orvieto.

And. . . one more, which is more hectic, but you might like. Add the two days between Florence and Rome. From Florence, go straight to Sorrento and visit Pompeii and take a boat trip down the Amalfi Coast.

There are tons more possibilities, and probably better ideas from other posters. I am just trying to offer you options that give you great sightseeing without eating up so much travel time.

It is better to see a few places well than many places. Paris is worth at least a week by itself. And one can easily spend weeks in Italy.

It is better to see a few places well than many places poorly.

Thank you very much for all your replies. My mind is now swirling back to sensibility. I really appreciate all your suggestions and opinions. Will take notes later.

^_^

WHY????

I'm smiling because my sister, her hubby, their 3 teen boys & 87 year old FIL were/are planning a trip very similar to the one you 1st described. Am not sure whether they're still planning it, but just listening to their list of cities made me exhausted. They have never been to Europe, don't speak anything but English & the elderly gentleman doesn't walk very well or steadily and has health issues; I have concerns but it's not my place to interfere.

My other sister & her family have taken whirlwind tours of Europe where they went to a new city every day; couldn't tell us anything about any one place they went to because it literally was all a blur! It was a pajama coach tour by some company or another.

We're going to be in Europe for 23 days & don't have that kind of stamina. We will just hit a few places but that's how we prefer to travel. We were in Europe 15 years ago for 3 weeks & stayed in 5 different places.

It takes all kinds--don't let anyone dissuade you if you have your heart set on seeing as many places as possible in as little time as possible, but you may be more "viewing at a distance" than enjoying much of anything. If that's your goal, have at it!

Many thanks to all those who responded. I'm glad I posted this topic to get back into reality.

I really want to see all these cities not necessarily the spots but walking around and taking photos would be great, because I just spent 6 days in small Singapore last March I only got to see 4 spots and the rest I spent in restaurants and coffee shops while chatting with my family and I really enjoyed it.

I showed the itinerary to my brother and we're already exhausted so we decided together to see if the city is worth staying for a longer time or else we head to the next train.

Too much planning can spoil the fun. Most of our accommodations are walking distance to main train/metro station and airports so it's not a bother.

I do pack a lot when I'm on vacation but that's only because I stay in the same place for long but this time I wouldn't bring my whole closet.

Many thanks to all the reasonable and sarcastic explanation. I really enjoyed on this thread. ^_^

Happy Trails to You.... Until We Meet Again... with a after the fact report!

Bon Voyage

Hi Palenque, thanks for your advice, I will get back to all of you for a trip report

We did 5 cities in 19 days (London with a day trip to Windsor, Prague and Cesky Krumlov, Budapest, Berlin and Paris). We used Easyjet to fly between cities with the exception of a shuttle bus and train from Cesky Krumlov to Budapest (that turned out to be a long day of travel). We booked early morning flights which gave us most of the afternoon of our travel day to explore our next destination and then stayed 3 or 4 nights in each city. We did city tours as soon as we could and then also did some tours on our own. Have fun and enjoy your trip!!

I'm also using Easyjet from Venice to Dusseldorf, then Ryan Air for my flights from Paris to Madrid / Barcelona to Rome.

Thank you Snowflake! Can I see your travel photos from Prague, Cesky, Krumlov and Budapest?

If you are using the low cost airlines then you need to build extra time into your schedule as many of the airports they use are well outside the advertised destination city and transfer times into the city centre can 2hrs +. Check where the airport actually is not where the airline says its going to!

Yes indeedy - Ryan Air from or to Paris could mean Beauvais (or it could mean Paris proper), a town Ryan Air uses for flights and then provides a bus - about 10 euros - for the hour or so drive into Paris.

Thanks Hastobe_Katt and Palenque for the additional tips. I already made research on the airports for our departure, a bit far from the city but that's what one gets from saving. It's part of the journey so I'd make the most out of it.

I think if you are going to do this then you need to make the journey part of the fun rather than the punishment.

If you want to go by train, take a picnic with more food and drink than you want. Then you can see if your fellow travelers want to picnic with you. It breaks the ice and may make your journey more memorable.

If flying then set yourself up with talking books and enough to travel literature to pass the time planning so you arrive ready for the hunt when you land

Plan. The is a phrase which works out as P*** poor preparation leads to P*** poor execution. Details organised now will make the whole think easier at the time.

Then you need to come with a really positive frame of mind so when things do go wrong you can see the sunny/funny side and be positive

Thanks Bilbo, I'll take note of your tips

I promise everyone, I will make a trip report. 18 more days to go...!

And make provisions in case volcanic ash closes airports in northern France! Ah the incongruities that volcano has created.

Be sure to book Ryan Air's shuttle bus between Beauvais and Paris otherwise it's a round about way to go into Beauvais and to its train station for trains to Paris.

Finished! The whole trip was a blast! So fun that I decided to come bak for me Thanks to everyone who gave their crazy, supportive ideas and violent comments ^_^

For more I mean, I just need to make a trip report to share with you what happened

Just do 2 coutries, you said you want to see as much as possible, but to be honest all you will see are airport lounges, and they are much the same world wide.

Take one example Barcelona to Rome

OK so you have packed your baggs and have had breakfast (9.00am) and you take a cap (the quickest option) to the airport. The cab ride is 30 mins, then you have to check in and European check in is 2 hours before a flight (11.30)

Assuming your flight is convenient and leaves on time you will land 2 hours later (13.30), you now need to collect baggage and get through security, say 30mins ifyou are lucky and then get a taxi, if there is no queue then you nave another 40-60 mins taxi ride.

By now it is 4pm.

Just how much of Rome will you see today?

And that's with good connections, no waiting and no weather cconsiderations.

You may be someone who needs no sleep and can hit the ground running but you will at some time need to stop to eat, use the toilet and possibly take a photo.

Yuo can add places you don't see to your list of places to see next time.