1 month in Europe

Old Dec 9th, 2016, 04:26 PM
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1 month in Europe

Hi there! I am currently planning the itinerary for a month in Europe this summer. We are flying into Lisbon on 5/25 and flying back to the states from Madrid on 6/21. We intentionally planned more time in Paris and Spain at the end because we have family there and plan to relax during that time (a couple days can be taken from our time in Spain if you think we definitely need to add more time to a city). Main questions - should we add Florence in between Rome and Cinque Terre? Is Berlin the right move for the only city we see in Germany? I've heard great things about Munich as well but it would make traveling from Prague and to Amsterdam more difficult. Also interested in visiting a smaller German town instead with great German culture if anyone has recs (Frankfurt, Cologne, or Dresden?). Also if anyone has recommendations on flying or taking a train in between the locations let me know, I just gathered the info below from a quick google search.

5/25 Lisbon
5/26 Rome (3hr flight in morning)
5/27 Rome
5/28 Rome
5/29 Cinque Terre (5 hr train in morning)
5/30 Cinque Terre
5/31 Venice (6 hr train in morning)
6/1 Venice
6/2 Prague (1.5 hour flight in morning)
6/3 Prague
6/4 Berlin (4h25m train in morning)
6/5 Berlin
6/6 Amsterdam (6h40 train in morning)
6/7 Amsterdam
6/8 Paris (3h20m train in afternoon)
6/9 Paris
6/10 Paris
6/11 Paris
6/12 Barcelona (6h train)
6/13 Barcelona
6/14 Barcelona
6/15 Salamanca
6/16 Salamanca
6/17 Salamanca
6/18 Madrid
6/19 Madrid
6/20 Madrid
6/21 Madrid
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 04:40 PM
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Just curious, why are you flying into Lisbon when you're not going to spend any time there?
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 04:45 PM
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Just the way the flight worked out. We have a night layover there and then fly to Rome in the morning.
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 04:56 PM
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Too many places, not enough time most anywhere.
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 05:10 PM
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I agreed with thursdaysd, but if you are young and full of energy it might work.
I am a lazy traveler and I like to stay longer in each city I am visiting.
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 05:13 PM
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Way too many places in too little time. I would fly into where you want to go and then pick 5 places versus 10 - so you an actually see something.
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 05:13 PM
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We are going right after graduation! So pretty young and very full of energy Plan on seeing all we can the first half and relaxing the second half. But with that said if you think there is a better route to take to see these cities let me know!
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 05:15 PM
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Could potentially cut out Prague or Amsterdam as well, those are not must sees on our list. And we are considering switching Berlin with Munich or Frankfurt
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 06:39 PM
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Take a look at how much time you have in each place. Remember that it takes 3 nights in a place just to get two full days.

You have 2 and a half days (at most) in Rome
a day in Venice
a day and a half (at most) in Prague,
etc.

If you have so little interest in a place that you only want a day there, I'd cut it.
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 09:21 PM
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When calculating travel times, do not underestimate the time it takes from hotel to train station or airport, checkin time at airports, and time getting from airport or train station to your next hotel. Add at least 1/2 hour to and from train stations in city centers, more usually from airports outside of cities, plus at least an hour for checking into flights. So, a 1&1/2 hour flight turns into 3 & 1/2 to 4 hours total travel time. A five hour train trip turns into at least 6 to 6 & 1/2 hours.

You allowed no travel time getting from Barcelona to Salamanca or from Salamanca to Madrid.

I too, do not get the point of flying into Lisbon and spending a night. Why not fly directly to a place you want to see?

Personally, I would start in the warmest countries, Spain or Italy, and end in the North.
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Old Dec 9th, 2016, 09:54 PM
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1 month in Europe
Posted by: tja2016 on Dec 9, 16 at 8:26pm


That's not really the itinerary I would choose for a first time trip to Europe. I would spend a couple days in Lisbon, then San Sebastian, Paris, Amsterdam, Cologne/Düsseldorf; Lyon?, Barcelona, Madrid. For an introduction to trains see http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm and use night trains where practical. You save a day of travel and get a cheap bunk, city to city.
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Old Dec 10th, 2016, 12:41 AM
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I can absolutely understand why you want to see each of these places, but your itinerary is, IMO, WAY too rushed -- even for young, energetic people.

I recommend that you get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library), identify the things you most want to see in each location, check their opening/closing times on the internet, and mark them on a calendar. Then pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, etc.). Then see how things fit together. And BTW, note that many things in Spain are closed on Monday, and often for all or part of Sundays too; and many things in Spain will also be closed daily for a very long mid-day break.

I must admit I'd cut your destinations by at least half -- and I travel HARD. But it's your trip, your call.

Good luck!
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Old Dec 10th, 2016, 01:38 AM
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I agree with all of the above and would add that I'm guessing you don't have a clear idea of what's involved in landing in a new city every other day or so and acclimating to the language, signage, layout of the city, finding your accommodations, etc. That in addition to the travel time you haven't
accounted for, shortens your visiting time in every destination.

And I agree there is no reason to fly into Lisbon and not visit it. Would you fly into Boston to visit Atlanta?
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Old Dec 10th, 2016, 09:48 AM
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For lots of good info on trains and discounted tickets and railpasses - you are traveling enough to at least look into them -check www.seat61.com- www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

And yes Prague, Berlin and Amsterdam amongst others demand at least another day each and Lisbon a couple.

Basically cut you cities in about half and have a more relaxed trip.
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Old Dec 10th, 2016, 10:02 AM
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>"Young, just after graduation
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Old Dec 12th, 2016, 05:43 PM
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I will preface my response by saying this: I have done similar high-paced backpacking trips successfully, so I believe what you are proposing would be doable without a major overhaul. You must accept though, that with an accelerated itinerary, you won't get to see every last attraction in each place, and you won't necessarily hit all the small towns along the way. You're essentially getting a taste of each place and moving on. If that sounds alright to you, you're on the right track here.

A few comments:
- 2.5 days in Rome is reasonable to see the main sights
- 1.5 days in Cinque Terre is a good amount to do the hike between the towns
- I would recommend adding 1.5 days in Florence if you are into art, and if you can recover the days from elsewhere (i.e. Spain)
- 1.5 days in Venice is reasonable for exploration purposes
- I can't comment on 1.5 days in Prague, as I've never been, but as a rule of thumb, I would try to scrounge up at least 2.5 days for major cities like this
- Berlin is a good German city to choose if you are a history buff and the nightlife is good. 1.5 days might be rushed unless you have very specific things you would like to see only. This also fits well with your itinerary.
- 1.5 days is enough to "see" Amsterdam, but I would suggest possibly adding another day as a day trip to other smaller Dutch towns (Utrecht, Leiden, etc.), as you have expressed interest in this and they are easily accessible. I haven't been to many small German towns that I can recommend unfortunately.
- 3.5 days in Paris is reasonable
- 2.5 days in Barcelona is reasonable
- I can't comment on the 3 days in Salamanca, but perhaps a day from here can be used elsewhere if you are willing to sacrifice the time with family.
- 4 days in Madrid is a little excessive from a tourism perspective, compared to the amount of time spent in other cities. Same comment as Salamanca. Consider a day trip from here to Toledo.

Hope this helps!
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Old Dec 12th, 2016, 10:19 PM
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I agree with most that you are trying to do too much. I did three 2 month backpacking trips through Europe in my twenties when we moved when we wanted to and where we wanted to instead of having a set itinerary. We found that every destination has a amount of time where staying longer yielded diminishing returns. My take on your possible destinations:
Rome 3-4 days, CT 2 days if you want to do a lot of hiking, Venice 2+ days, Florence 2+ days unless you want to visit such places nearby such as Pisa, Siena, Lucca.., Prague 2 days, Berlin 2-3+ days,Amsterdam 2+ days, Paris 3-4+ days, Barcelona 2-3 days, Madrid 2-3 days. Never been to Salamanca. These times do not include traveling so add a day with every move. I should also note that if you are planning on a lot of night life that I would increase the above times. A warning too that you cannot travel hard for a month. Every 10-15 days will require a rest day even at your age and especially if you plan on a lot of night life. Also agree that no good reason to go to Lisbon if you are not going to visit and you should open jaw this trip.
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Old Dec 13th, 2016, 06:59 AM
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Also interested in visiting a smaller German town instead with great German culture if anyone has recs (Frankfurt, Cologne, or Dresden?).>

Well those are three of the biggest cities in Germany- in no way a small town.
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Old Dec 13th, 2016, 04:31 PM
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Again, I think it really depends on what YOU want to see and experience. Although some people love "sampling" trips, I have no interest in them. If I'm going to stop somewhere, I want to stay long enough to actually see and experience the things that make me want to go there. If I don't like a place, I can always move on, assuming I'm willing to be a bit flexible with lodging. I’ve realized that -- for me -- if I can return to a region, the LAST thing that I am likely to want to do is revisit places I've already been so that I can finally see the things I skipped the first time. In fact, I might end up not returning specifically because it would mean wasting so much time going from place to place! -- which sort of defeats the purpose of "deferring" them. But then, my travel wish list is very, very long relative to the time and money I have to travel, and I don't want to waste time and money traveling between places when I can spend that time seeing places. JMO.
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Old Dec 14th, 2016, 10:05 AM
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I don't want to waste time and money traveling between places when I can spend that time seeing places>

I can appreciate that viewpoint a lot and think most travelers feel that way.

But I also like to travel around Europe, between the main tourist cities -I love riding trains and seeing the Europe between cities -especially scenic trains.

I tend to go to a Rome or Florence now and use them as a base and do day trips by train or bus to smaller towns of interest - I like to move around more than stay in a city but I love returning to a Rome or Florence at night - so what fits one don't fit all - I can get as excited tromping thru a hectic train station like Rome Termini as thru the Louvre.

For first-time travelers I would suggest however staying more in the famous cities you've been dreaming about visiting all your lives- on subsequent trips explore less popular places and do a base city strategy -traveling on trains sans luggage is great -just hop on and hop off baggage-free.
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