Havana, New Years Eve?
Nov 22nd, 1997, 06:05 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
You might want to reconsider visiting Cuba. It's not safe. A 26 year old Dane was shot to death by Cuban troops
for wandering into a restricted area which was not clearly marked. Here's what his parents had to say: A FINAL NOTE
FROM THE FAMILY OF JOACHIM OGNER LOVSCHALL ~Terrorism occurs all over the world and is carried out by
terrorists. In Cuba, inhumane and inexcusable acts of lawlessness and injustice are carried out, not by terrorists, but by the
Cuban government. Jyllands-Posten - Article in original Danish
(http://www.jp.dk/cgi-bin/dbpublish.d...yheder/forside) or visit for the document translated in English at:
http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/dangerousvacatio111197.html
for wandering into a restricted area which was not clearly marked. Here's what his parents had to say: A FINAL NOTE
FROM THE FAMILY OF JOACHIM OGNER LOVSCHALL ~Terrorism occurs all over the world and is carried out by
terrorists. In Cuba, inhumane and inexcusable acts of lawlessness and injustice are carried out, not by terrorists, but by the
Cuban government. Jyllands-Posten - Article in original Danish
(http://www.jp.dk/cgi-bin/dbpublish.d...yheder/forside) or visit for the document translated in English at:
http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/dangerousvacatio111197.html
Nov 23rd, 1997, 06:06 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Cuba is the most peaceful country I have visited. There is no state terrorism. The incident with the dane who was shot must have been a terrible misunderstanding. We felt safer in Cuba than in any other country we have stayed in. But look out for thieves (who, though, are not violent)And you get no help from the police. I recommend Hotel Inglaterra or hotel Nacional. Stay away from hotel Plaza. Have a nice trip!
Nov 24th, 1997, 12:49 PM
#5
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Nils, Nils, Nils. What are we to do with you? I accept your viewpoint that Cuba is the best thing to come along (for you not the Cubans) since smorgasbord and lingonberries. (Except for the interesting and unique combination of crime with no police in a police state.) I respect your policy of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil." But, even you Nils cannot rewrite 38 years of state terrorism in Cuba. This is too much even for me. Just what planet have you been on all that time? Doesn't Norway have newspapers and TV? Wake up Nils and read history.
Nov 24th, 1997, 01:53 PM
#6
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Posts: n/a
First: The weather in Varadero in january is very pleasant: About 80 degrees Fahrenheit in daytime and sunny days.
In Norway we have west-oriented, independent newspapers and TV. I have read a lot about Cuba from independent sources (eg. The Economist).I am afraid that your figures on jailed and killed people are much too high. But there are political prisoners in the country, and it is very sad to read about the cubans who have been killed by the regime. I of course cannot accept these actions in any way. Nothing can excuse this. But my main point is: We should not stop visit countries like Cuba, but try a constructive dialogue with such regimes. And I do not understand your general approach to this theme: Why is it acceptable to visit a countries like Colombia,Zaire, Morroco, Turkey, Indonesia etc. whose human right record is much worse than Cuba's? None of you have answered this question. It seems that you only are focused on Cuba (which I seperately can understand)and not on human rights around the world in general? I am sure you are not, but I do not understand the rationality behind your standpoints. Best regards from Nils
In Norway we have west-oriented, independent newspapers and TV. I have read a lot about Cuba from independent sources (eg. The Economist).I am afraid that your figures on jailed and killed people are much too high. But there are political prisoners in the country, and it is very sad to read about the cubans who have been killed by the regime. I of course cannot accept these actions in any way. Nothing can excuse this. But my main point is: We should not stop visit countries like Cuba, but try a constructive dialogue with such regimes. And I do not understand your general approach to this theme: Why is it acceptable to visit a countries like Colombia,Zaire, Morroco, Turkey, Indonesia etc. whose human right record is much worse than Cuba's? None of you have answered this question. It seems that you only are focused on Cuba (which I seperately can understand)and not on human rights around the world in general? I am sure you are not, but I do not understand the rationality behind your standpoints. Best regards from Nils
Nov 24th, 1997, 04:38 PM
#7
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Dear Nils,
Please don't make assumptions about my commitment to human rights. First, I'm a Cuban therefore I'll look to my homeland first, but that does not mean that I'll forget other nations suffering as we do or worse. I've protested Chinese officials visiting my university, met with Tibetan monks, signed petitions, written letters of solidarity, met with members of the independent press in Peru persecuted by Fujimori, not to mention supporting campaigns for a free Burma, and spread messages about the atrocities committed by Indonesia in East Timor.
------------> Just because I believe that Cubans have rights, and that someone has to speak up on behalf of those who cannot speak. Please don't accuse me of not having a universal perspective on the God given rights of humanity.
------------------>Learn more about us at http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/
Please don't make assumptions about my commitment to human rights. First, I'm a Cuban therefore I'll look to my homeland first, but that does not mean that I'll forget other nations suffering as we do or worse. I've protested Chinese officials visiting my university, met with Tibetan monks, signed petitions, written letters of solidarity, met with members of the independent press in Peru persecuted by Fujimori, not to mention supporting campaigns for a free Burma, and spread messages about the atrocities committed by Indonesia in East Timor.
------------> Just because I believe that Cubans have rights, and that someone has to speak up on behalf of those who cannot speak. Please don't accuse me of not having a universal perspective on the God given rights of humanity.
------------------>Learn more about us at http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/
Nov 26th, 1997, 08:00 AM
#8
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Posts: n/a
From independent sources I have learnt that the Batista regime was even worse than Fidel's. What Cuba needs now, in my opinion, is a gradual transformation into democracy and market economy. Cuba should learn from Russia, who has experienced a national catastrophe as result of a mafia-controlled and too rapid change from communism/commmand economy to an extreme market economy. The Russian people is suffering more than ever before. I fully respect your view on human rights. Your examples demonstrates that you have an overall and wise perspective on this matter. Let us hope the next regime in Cuba will be like Havel's in the Chech republic. Poland, Hungary and The Chech republic have succeeded in this transformation. Cuba should look to them and to the Scandiavian mixed economy model. We enjoy peace,national consensus, low crime rates, social security and a high standard of living. I propose that we exchange our views on e-mail from here, and that we keep politics away from Fodor's. Best regards from Nils
Nov 26th, 1997, 02:57 PM
#9
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Dear Nils,
My family left Cuba because of the Batista dictatorship, and let me tell you Batista was a cruel, corrupt, and evil tyrant, but compared to Fidel Castro he is an innocent baby. You might do away with your independent sources and look at UN stats during the 50's that show that Batista (who had been described by the Cuban Communist Party in his early years as a progressive socialist) was at the forefront of continuing the socialization of the Cuban economy from his democratic predecessors. Fidel Castro's policies in health and education are a continuation of his predecessors. Before you lecture us about wonderful Scandinavia. Lets recall that Sweden from the early 1900's until the 1970s was practicing eugenics, sterilizing undesirables, and pursuing an "aryan" look in its population. A quieter subtler version of Hitler's project in Germany. I believe that the reason the Czech model has worked is because of Klaus who has instituted radical freemarket reforms. The failure in Russia is , as far as I can tell, due to a lack of backing up private property rights with an effective legal system, and they've privatized at a much slower rate then the Czech's. I believe that each country has its own set of unique experiences which require its own solutions, but I firmly believe that socialism, democratic or otherwise, leads to despotism. Sorry about the politics I'll continue this dialogue via e-mail.
My family left Cuba because of the Batista dictatorship, and let me tell you Batista was a cruel, corrupt, and evil tyrant, but compared to Fidel Castro he is an innocent baby. You might do away with your independent sources and look at UN stats during the 50's that show that Batista (who had been described by the Cuban Communist Party in his early years as a progressive socialist) was at the forefront of continuing the socialization of the Cuban economy from his democratic predecessors. Fidel Castro's policies in health and education are a continuation of his predecessors. Before you lecture us about wonderful Scandinavia. Lets recall that Sweden from the early 1900's until the 1970s was practicing eugenics, sterilizing undesirables, and pursuing an "aryan" look in its population. A quieter subtler version of Hitler's project in Germany. I believe that the reason the Czech model has worked is because of Klaus who has instituted radical freemarket reforms. The failure in Russia is , as far as I can tell, due to a lack of backing up private property rights with an effective legal system, and they've privatized at a much slower rate then the Czech's. I believe that each country has its own set of unique experiences which require its own solutions, but I firmly believe that socialism, democratic or otherwise, leads to despotism. Sorry about the politics I'll continue this dialogue via e-mail.
Jan 1st, 1998, 07:58 AM
#10
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Posts: n/a
January 1, is the Cuban National Day, so new years eve celebrations are really Natiional Day's eve celebrations. If you attend any, at midnight, remember to stand at attention while they play the national anthem... then you can let you hair down and o olde lange syne etc.
