Changes to travel US-Cuba

Old Jun 15th, 2017, 10:08 AM
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Changes to travel US-Cuba

The Miami Herald has gotten an advance copy of the speech Trump will give tomorrow, June 16, 2017. Changes are to be in place in 90 days, mid-September.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...156337129.html
Back to expensive group tours and detailed specific license applications for individuals.
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Old Jun 15th, 2017, 10:25 AM
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Fortunately for ordinary Cubans running casas and paladares, there are plenty of non-americans going to Cuba.
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Old Jun 15th, 2017, 03:44 PM
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Looks like casa and paladars may still be allowed for US visitors. No government hotels though.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...thaw-on-friday
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Old Jun 16th, 2017, 06:18 AM
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Then we're good, thanks. We return home in early September.
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Old Jun 16th, 2017, 09:15 AM
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Our trip seems to be on - it will be months before this is implemented.
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Old Jun 16th, 2017, 11:55 AM
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Today's announcement makes about US travel to Cuba
makes me sick. China and Russia must be pleased.
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Old Jun 17th, 2017, 01:01 PM
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good news, sf7307. as you're on a tour, there shouldn't be any problems anyway.
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Old Jun 19th, 2017, 05:50 PM
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What was done by Trump on Friday the 16th of June was another example of retrogression in the worworst form for the citizens of both countries. But this action will
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Old Jun 25th, 2017, 06:08 AM
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the current info reads that all US travelers need to go with group travel...if it is otherwise then guess that should be spelled out...but it is a blow to the US market that Cuba was just getting into bigtime...and this will be enough to deter people from even considering a trip now. Trump's people do not even know how to write clear and concise rulings and with confusion people will just opt out.
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Old Jun 28th, 2017, 01:11 PM
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In addition to what has already been presented regarding the change in travel to Cuba by United States citizens, I'd like to present this website which I received via email today.

cubajournal.co/how-to-legally-travel-to-Cuba-in-2017.
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Old Jun 28th, 2017, 01:14 PM
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http://www.cubajournal.com/how-to-le...o-Cuba-in-2017. I typed what appeared in my browser at first; that's the reason for its not working in my brief response above.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 12:55 AM
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"people to people" is of course not the only category; the group only restriction seems only to apply to this one, not the 11 others, though of course it may be difficult to fit individual travel into one of them unless you are a journalist or professional photographer or fit one of the other categories:

https://cu.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen...eling-to-cuba/

The good news for Cubans is that it only applies to US citizens; the rest of us are as free to travel there as they were previously. We met [by which I mean actually spoke to ] people from 20 other countries, not including americans who we saw, but could not be said to have met as they seemed to be corralled into their groups quite rigidly. So the effect on Cuban tourism as it presently is may well be relatively little but the hoped for growth will not be happening at least not from the US.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 02:19 AM
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"though of course it may be difficult to fit individual travel into one of them"
There is one category that is just as fitting as P2P (unless that one gets defined much less vaguely than currently).
And the opportunity to travel through a third country may still be viable.

"the hoped for growth will not be happening at least not from the US"....

...because most US travelers are of a mindset of looking for the police to batter down their door if they drive over the speed limit.

But yes, if it's not easy (i.e. guaranteed not to involve an OFAC inquiry afterwards), most US tourists won't do it.

"not including americans who we saw, but could not be said to have met"
So you can tell an individual/independent traveler from the US from someone from Canada (or another country) by sight??????? And did not approach any?
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 05:53 AM
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Under the old rules, the "Support for the Cuban People" category was quite rigidly defined. It meant travel under the auspices of an international organization that worked to support peace and democracy in Cuba. Of course, the group was required to have an OFAC license. It did not mean going to Cuba on your own and talking to people on the street and singing "Getting to know you, getting to know more about you." If the new rules revert to the old rules, the Support category will be a difficult one for most U.S. visitors to adhere to.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 05:53 AM
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>

SC - I had already explained what I meant by "met". So yes we could tell - the american groups were all very well chaperoned and didn't mix with anyone else - they were easy to spot. We simply didn't come across groups from anywhere else, just individual travellers.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 06:17 AM
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The majority of non-U.S. visitors of all nationalities go to Cuba with a tour package. They stay at a beach resort, and most of them do not leave the confines of their resort except on organized excursions escorted by a tour guide. I’m not criticizing anybody who wants that type of vacation, but I simply don’t buy this notion that everyone except Americans has this wonderful, independent Cuba experience. You did, annhig. Most do not.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 07:43 AM
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Jeff - you misunderstand me. I know that most people go to Cuba on packages and stay in the resorts on the north coast but apart from a day trip to Caya Santa Maria from Remedios we didn't go anywhere near there so we were unlikely to come across them.

My meaning was that as the vast majority of the independent tourists are not american, that sector of the market is not going to be hugely affected by the change in the rules, as americans had barely started to use it.

And I do know how lucky we were to be able to do what we did.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 09:41 AM
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Yes. The vast majority of independent tourists are not American ... and the vast majority of tourists to Cuba are not independent at all. I heard a Canadian lament that the arrival of Americans was going to turn Cuba into one big beach resort. No. Canadians and Europeans already did that without any help from us Yanks.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the people-to-people tours give their participants a unique cultural experience that no one else gets. Because their focus has to be entirely on culture and education, they set up visits and contacts that are difficult for the independent traveler to arrange and that the resort tourist wants no part of. You pay a lot extra for this, of course, but that's the only complaint I've ever heard from people who did these tours. They've all raved about the experience.

I'll also go out on a limb and say that independent travel to Cuba has its drawbacks. My trips there have been as a journalist, all on the up-and-up, so a tour was out of the question.That meant making the arrangements myself. I consider myself to be an intrepid traveler and I speak Spanish well, but there were times I thought, it would be nice to have someone helping me with logistics.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 10:54 AM
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Jeff - I'm not going to disagree with any of those sentiments. I can see that those people to people tours are full of interesting cultural experiences that the independent traveller would struggle to emulate, though towards the end of the trip we began to get the hang of things, and used the local tourist office to book us taxi-drivers/guides so take us places. We would have done this more were it not for the weird experience we had in Santu spiritu where we were told firmly that there were no excursions of tours that we could take from there. So we spent a day exploring every church, public building and museum in the place, which itself led to some interesting experiences. Who knew that it was a man from Santu Spiritu who led a canoe expedition from the start of the Amazon to the Caribbean?

In Havana of course it's easier to get around and see things, so the impetus to hire a guide is not so great; if we went again I think that that is something I would do for the reasons you mention.

And I definitely agree about the logistics - sometimes it felt as if we were re-inventing the wheel when it came to finding out information particularly about buses and transport. If we were to do it again, we would fly from Havana to Baracoa and work our way back, but I was by no means convinced we'd be able to do it in the time available. I was wrong - if necessary we'd have used a combination of buses and taxis - but especially for a first time visitor, it takes a while to begin to understand how to get things done.

As for Spanish, we managed but only just. To all those who said that it was pointless trying to learn Spanish because the cuban dialect/accent is so different I say that's a load of rubbish - every word you can learn is a boon. We found that on the whole people were very kind in listening to us mangling their language and replying in the best Spanish they could muster. I would certainly try to learn more if we went again.
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Old Jun 29th, 2017, 01:50 PM
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"Under the old rules, the "Support for the Cuban People" category was quite rigidly defined. It meant travel under the auspices of an international organization that worked to support peace and democracy in Cuba. Of course, the group was required to have an OFAC license. It did not mean going to Cuba on your own and talking to people on the street and singing "Getting to know you, getting to know more about you." If the new rules revert to the old rules, the Support category will be a difficult one for most U.S. visitors to adhere to."

That is simply not technically true. After March 2016 (Obama's new rules), individual US passport holders could go to Cuba under a general license using the P2P OFAC criteria (or any of the other 11 they qualified for). These were the rules current until T's announcement (T's newest rules, still largely undefined) and for those who booked before the announcement. I do agree, however, that many people did not thoroughly understand the definitions of the category and many itineraries published on travel forums may not have met the P2P criteria as defined, even if they were trying. The new/T rules are not allowing this category for individual travelers, just for those who travel with a group under the agency's special license.
I have said previously that IMO it is very difficult for a new US traveler to Cuba to make the connections necessary for a "real" P2P trip (or any cultural trip, in fact) in advance, without help from a Cuban or some very knowledgable person on the ground in Cuba. That is the value of what you are paying for by going with a group tour.
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"The majority of non-U.S. visitors of all nationalities go to Cuba with a tour package. They stay at a beach resort, and most of them do not leave the confines of their resort except on organized excursions escorted by a tour guide."

I certainly encountered lots of tourists from Europe/Britain/AU etc who were not, and were traveling independently and staying in casas. This was in areas outside of the Varadero resorts and the cayos. They seemed to be younger backpacker types, a good number speaking German (that's who has travel money in Europe these days it seems), but there were quite a lot of them.

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" ...as the vast majority of the independent tourists are not american, that sector of the market is not going to be hugely affected by the change in the rules, as americans had barely started to use it. "

The statistics I have seen online state that tourism was up 15% since March of 2016, for which US tourists are quite likely responsible. FIFTEEN PERCENT is a BIG HIT to the casa owners, restauranteurs and other cuentapropistas.
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"To all those who said that it was pointless trying to learn Spanish because the cuban dialect/accent is so different"

Cubans did fine understanding my (fluent) Portuguese, just as Mexicans and Salvadorans and Puerto Ricans and other Spanish speakers have.
And I did OK understanding their half of the conversation as well, especially once I got used to the dropped "s" (as in the artist FOO-ter .
I had some very interesting and in-depth discussions on any number of subjects.
And there are quite a few English speakers in any touristed area, thanks to the great Cuban education system.
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