Brenda

My husband and I are going to Ontario (Toronto, Kingston, Ottawa) next week and our 16-year old daughter refuses to come with us! We've told her she can bring a friend, but all her friends have jobs and can't come. I've promised to find places that interest her, but she says nothing will interest her. Anyone have any suggestions? I could leave her home with my Dad, but I know she'll have a good time if she'll just put aside that "teen mentality." Has anyone dealt with this issue successfully. Any and all suggestions are welcome. I'm desperate.

gary

The problem with teenage girls is that if they decide they are going to be bored they will be unless some 'cute' guy comes and sweeps them off their feet. I don't know where you're from but Toronto is a very big city with out a sight shopping and fantastic theatre - if you're lucky enough to get tickets - great outdoor concerts and I think Caribiana will be on next week which is a way cool Carribean festival of street dancing and Carribean food and music. We're from Vancouver which is a pretty neat place itself but our daughter never said 'no' to a chance to visit Toronto and we now have one son living there. <BR> <BR>Ottawa and definately Kingston may be a little less exciting for a teenage girl. Ottawa has great museams - interactive stuff and the like - but unless that appeals to her I would switch to Niagra Falls which has much more to keep a teenager stimulated. <BR> <BR>All in all though my first sentance stands. If she goes against her will she'll likely be determined to appear bored and unhappy unless something dramatic happens to force her out of her funk.

Bob Brown

I sympathize. It sounds like a dominace stuggle. Take her and you are all miserable. Leave her and lord knows what kind of mischief she will stir up. <BR>I know what I did: I told my son either go or pay the price. Like no car use for a year. <BR>But I am not sure it really worked because paying is a two way street. <BR> <BR>I made the mistake of leaving my son once. <BR>We came home a day early and thank heavens we did. I will not go beyond that, but the point being is that teen agers in the USA lack challenges in their lives. <BR>

cindy

I'd like to offer a dissenting view, if I may. I'm a grandmother now, but I clearly remember being virtually forced to go on vacation with my parents when I was 16. I truly was miserable. My friends were all working during the day, as I was, but we had fun in the evenings and on weekends -and I was a good kid, not interested in getting into any kind of trouble - and I missed a lot being away for 2 weeks. I'll never forget how powerless and unhappy I felt during that time! If you can, I'd urge you to consider leaving your daughter at home, as long as she can behave responsibly.

traveller

If she is a responsible teenager, maybe you should give her a chance and let her stay home (supervised). We travelled quite a bit when our kids were teenagers and really welcomed some time away from them! They always had supervision as teenagers, even when they were 17 & 18. More to protect my house than them! No matter how responsible, teenagers love to have friends in and many kids these days don't give a **** about other people's property. It might be a good chance for you and your husband to have a second honeymoon.

Brenda

Thank you for all your replies. Your insights are very appreciated. She is a responsible kid. She doesn't have her license yet. While she has lots of friends, many of them are scattered across the US this summer and her summer activities have consisted of waking up late, watching a lot of television and babysitting three times a week. She's also gained some weight from inactivity. Her varsity basketball coach is not going to be pleased when she returns to school. <BR> <BR>I'm really torn. I don't want to make her unhappy. If she were having a "wonderful" summer with lots of social life and productive activity, I'd leave her home with my Dad. NO questions! But, she isn't. I think she needs some excitement and a kickstart out of the rut she's in, so I am leaning toward dragging her kicking and screaming to Toronto. Is Toronto a pretty safe city? My impression is that it is. <BR> <BR>We could skip Kingston, but the reason we were going to include it is to check out Queens University (or is a College?). We've heard it's a wonderful school and one that she might consider. She's going into her junior year and should start thinking in that direction. I thought we'd also check out the University of Toronto while we're there. <BR> <BR>But, the bottom line is that if she decides to be bored, she will and make us all miserable. Anyone have a cute son in Toronto who'd like to show my daughter around? Just kidding, but I know it would help. <BR> <BR>Again, thank you for your suggestions and opinions. Venting has helped me.

gary

If you're looking for potential Universities in Central Canada I can tell you the most popular with Western Canadian Students are, in order: McGill in Montreal; UT and York in Toronto & Western in London Ontario. Queens is an excellant post-grad school especially for Political Science and Commerce but I havn't heard that it's that popular with undergrads. <BR> <BR>Yes, Toronto is very safe for a city of almost 5 million but that doesn't mean it's crime free so use common sence.

Al

If you are looking for universities for your daugther. Then definately take the trip to Kingston...If anything, you can bypass the Ottawa trip, unless your daugther wants to get into politics, law, the two universities in Ottawa is not really worthwhile, especially for US students. <BR>However, Queen's University is probably the highest quality university you will find in Canada. They have the highest academic entrance requirements of all the schools. Their undergrad programs are famous for Commerce, Engineering, biochemistry, environmental science, and humunaties. In fact Queen's was the first canadian university to offer business degree. Most of the students at Queen's are very well-rounded in terms of academics and socially. Part of the admission requirements at Queen's is based on high academic grades plus extra-curricular activities. In fact alot of the students are former student councils when they were in high school. <BR>As for the social aspects of the school, its about 12000 full time students, so its nice and intimate. It is renown for its school spirits and one just needs to visit the campus to experience the traditions that the school has. Students actually do goto saturaday afternoon football games. Unlike a mega-commuter university like University of Toronto, where majority of students leave the campus after classes, there is more of a family feelings at Queen's... <BR>It is well known to canadian students that Western and Queen's are the two universities where students have the most fun. Western is known as 'Club Med' for having the most 'old' money students, while Queen's is known as 'Club prep' and Harvard of the north. <BR>FWIW, this is coming from someone who graduated from Queen's. And also attended mega-universities(UOFT) with their 60000+ student body. Big difference!!

herself

Brenda, How happy I am that I no longer have teenagers. I am the mom of three boys and a girl and I remember some awful family vacations. Funny thing is that now the kids remember those nightmares as fun times. They sit around and laugh together about some of our worst trips while my husband and I try hard not to vomit. Leaving them home was much worst. Even the sweetest, most dependable of my sons got into trouble on those vacations. Somehow, freedom and responsibility is an oxymoron to teens. Good luck.

Brenda

Thanks Gary and Al. I'm excited. Wish I were young again so I could consider these schools. <BR> <BR>What makes this so frustrating is that this child has traveled to the Caribbean, Europe, Canada and about a third of the US since infancy. We've tried to raise her and her brother as citizen's of the world. We embrace ethnic cuisines, music and cultures. Despite my best efforts it seems that there is no way to combat the malaise that overtakes a lot of American teenagers. <BR> <BR>Is there anyone else out there who is dealing with a similar problem? It can't just be me.

elizabeth

Hi Brenda - in that you're considering Canadian Universities you might want to have a look at an annual guide to Canadian Universities (with comparative ratings) published by MacLeans magazine (a weekly news magazine). You can purchase it on line - go to www.macleans.ca and follow the link to "MacLeans 2001 Guide to Universities".

Brenda

Thank you Herself for sharing your thoughts. I knew I wasn't alone. I know that she will appreciate the trip ten years from now. Whether forcing her to go will make me and my husband want to vomit is the question. Good point.

traveller

Being the (now) mother of kids in their mid to late 20's, I have to not only sypathize but also laugh at the struggles of parents of teens. Brenda, don't give up. As many have said, in later years you will not only laugh but also want to vomit. Teens are not easy. <BR> <BR>Oh, how we struggled with those darn teenagers. They just didn't want to do a thing with us and we forced them to go along anyhow. It was not fun for us then but now it is as we laugh about our adventures and our trials and tribulations. Our kids look back on those "vacations" with fond memories now. <BR> <BR>Glad they enjoy the memories, to us it was sheer hell. But, the positive side is we now enjoy the memories. <BR> <BR>You'll get through it. <BR> <BR>Good luck, Brenda.

Brenda

Thank you, All! I'm beginning to get a handle on this. I think that it will be in her best interest to go despite her belief to the contrary. Therefore, she's going. My husband and I may regret it during the trip, but I think that ten years from now, maybe twenty, it will be the source of some wonderful memories and good laughs. And, it will be the FIRST family vacation that we've spent with her alone since she was eighteen months old. Her brother was born when she was two (he's away at camp)! So it may be significant simply from that standpoint. <BR> <BR>Again, thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts with me. It helped.

A.M.

I thought McGill was the Harvard of thr north or is it Harvard is the McGill of the south?? <BR>A.M.

Jim Rosenberg

Tough problem and I tend to go with those who say that if she can stay home with your dad, that may be the best alternative. She's missing a lot, but I can remember taking our 17 year-old sun to a lovely (LOVELY!!!!) beach on vacation at a time when he just wasn't ready to go. I would have been in seventh heaven on that beach as a guy that age -- but not him on THAT occasion. It's a waste of money and emotion to bring someone along who feels that way about the trip because they can poison the whole experience for everyone involved. Our daughter, on the other hand, won't ALLOW us to go anywhere without her and LOVES to travel ANYWHERE at ANYTIME. So, don't kick yourself about it -- people are just different in what they value. (By the way, I've been to all of those places and you'll have a wonderful time!)

Brenda

Thanks, Jim. You're probably right. I'm still vascillating. I really dread dragging along a grumble bunny. I want to have fun and not fight the whole time. Being a good parent is the hardest job.

Dr. Laura

Brenda: At the risk of incurring the wrath of yourself and all those who have replied, may I just ask - who is in charge in your house, you or your daughter? Teen years can be trying but give me a break. Tell her she is going, regardless. This vacation may not turn out to be the fairy tell you want with everyone all lovey dovey, but I think it will settle the question, for your daughter at least, that she is the child and you are the adult. If she physically refuses to go, I think she may need counseling. Vacations will be the least of your worries. Toronto is a fabulous place. Can't imagine that she won't enjoy it, and if she can hold a grudge for the whole trip, again, she may need counseling. Also, to Jim if you read this, any parent that isn't ALLOWED to go on a trip unless the child can go, may also be in need of counseling. Ditto everything I said to Brenda. <BR> <BR>P.S. I can heard on radio stations across the U.S. and Canada every day. I suggest all tune in you might find your backbones. A simple rule to remember is PARENT IS IN CHARGE, CHILD IS NOT.

Katie

As a former brat (I'm now 19), I urge you to really get her invloved in your plans. I stopped going on holiday with my parents when I was 15, simply because we liked doing different things. Perhaps, give her a day and tell her that you'll do whatever she wants to do. At 16, she thinks that she needs more freedom and well, at 16, she does. <BR> <BR>As for looking at univerities, I know you want her to start thinking about it but does SHE? Perhaps she's put off going on the trip as she feels you want her to map out her life. If she's not ready to look at them then she won't, and you'll all end up mieserable. If you do go to the uni's then only do one of them (unless she's really interested). I wouldn't spend all day there and don't just do things to do with courses, go for dinner or look at the museums on site or something. <BR> <BR>I know when I was 16 (and even now) if I though that my parents were trying to interfere in my "destiny" then that would be it and I'd be determined to have an awful time and ruin it for everyone else.

Mimi

I'm with the person above who reminds you that it's the parents who should be in charge. That she is able to "refuse" to cooperate would indicate that she has been given this permission by you over the years. So, you either bring her along and bear with her alleged lack of interest in anything and disruption of your otherwise pleasant travels, or leave her at home with an adult you can depend on to supervise her closely so she can wallow in boredom.