panecott

I'm looking for input from anyone who has stayed at, or knows of, either of these two places.

I have already booked the Paradise Lodge and Bungalows for my mid-September visit, and have a one room cabin with a large deck and view. This is where I'd planned to stay four years ago but had to cancel at the last minute due to an injury.

Yesterday, I saw an availability at the Post Hotel, which also looks quite lovely. The room has a balcony with view. This hotel never seemed to have availability in my past browsing so maybe they had a cancellation.

I know both places get high ratings from reviewers and the prices are comparable so I was just looking for input on any other factors, and would appreciate your comments. TIA. Oh, the Post has a pool, which is a plus for me, but I don't think the Paradise does.

panecott

I just did some further checking and it turns out that The Post Hotel has a "discounted side", which rooms face the mountains but overlook the parking lot and have noise from the CPR.

I knew there had to be a reason why the price was so cheap - relatively speakin - when the available rooms are usually twice as much or higher.

Think I'll stick with the Paradise.

Myer

I stayed at Paradise Lodge 3 years ago for a few nights. I found it pricey compared to Banff Townsite but everything in Lake Louise is pricey.

I found the cabin very nice and had a bit of a kitchen area. That was good for breakfast. Not much in Lake Louise in the way of restaurants, etc.

I was in Banff / Jasper with my daughter a few weeks ago. We spent 3 nights in Banff instead of 2 in Banff and 1 at Paradise Lodge. Even though we spent much more time in the Lake Louise area I liked the idea of staying in Banff for dinners.

Also, the only availability at Paradise Lodge was the 3rd night and I chose to not switch lodging for 1 night.

A bit rambling.

If I remember correctly Paradise Lodge doesn't have a pool. For us it wouldn't have made a difference. We only slept in the lodging. The view would have been a waste as well. We enjoyed the views by going to them.

Excellent location since it's just on the Lake Louise side (the lake not the area) of the road that goes to Moraine Lake.

We spent part of an afternoon in Yoho. Takakkaw Falls are a worthy trip to see. Some of the more known falls in the area seem to have viewing decks build to purposely block part of the view. Not these.

panecott

I will be in Lake Louise the first three nights, then Jasper for 5 nights, then the last 3 in Banff or Canmore. I'm still deciding on the last part.

I keep reading about how touristy and crowded Banff is and that's not what I'm looking for, altho' maybe by late September the crowds will have thinned out a bit. But the two towns are close enough so that it shouldn't make much of a difference. There's still time to decide.

As for the Paradise, I like the idea of being right at Lake Louise and I guess I can manage mealwise for a couple of nights.

Did you go to Emerald Lake in Yoho? It looks so beautiful, I was tempted to book the Emerald Lake Lodge for a night or two, but it looks to be a bit out of the way. I'm planning to spend a day in Yoho and one in Kananaskis country when I'm back in Banff/Canmore. Have you been to KC?

Myer

There's only 1 hotel right on the lake. So Paradise isn't. But close.

The town of Banff is very touristy. But look at the positives. Many dining choices.

You can make of things what you want. I wouldn't spend any daytime in the town.

I don't know what you interests are. Hiking, photography, general sightseeing?

Allow time for the drive up to and back from Jasper. If you want to do some hiking there's a fair amount along the way.

Depending upon your interests I can give you some ideas.

The driving time between Banff townsite and Lake Louise is between 35 and 50 minutes depending upon which road you take.

panecott

I know Paradise is not right on the lake. I meant being at Lake Louise as opposed to Banff.

I'm actually thinking of cutting one night from Jasper and spending it on the Icefields Pkwy. The icefields seem to be midway between Banff and Jasper so it's a bit of a drive either way. Or is it possible to see enough on a long stopover between LL and Jasper?

Do you, or anybody, know if it's worth it to spend overnight at the ice fields? I'm still researching and I think I have enough time if I decide to do that.

I like all the things you mentioned: hiking, altho' I'm wary of bears so I might curtail my hikes if I'm uneasy; photography - first trip with my new Canon SX50 HS, which I'm still learning to use, and yes, general sightseeing. I like to experience as much as I can, including just wandering about at times and enjoy off the beaten path sites.

Myer

Ok. First Yoho. On our second day we drove to Moraine Lake (on our first day we spent time at the Moraine Lake viewpoints on the Rock Pile - we had a great, clear morning so nothing could beat that) and hike to Consolation Lake.

We had to hike in groups of at least four so we went with some sisters from Germany. It was a bit of a disappointment since we never really got to the lake but on piles of rocks.

Then we drove to Yoho (only about 20 minutes from Lake Louise). Takakkaw Falls was definitely worth the drive. Emerald Lake was nice but not nicer than the others.

Icefields Parkway. Don't confuse the Parkway with the visitors' center. The Parkway goes from just north of Lake Louise to just south of the town of Jasper.

You don't have to sleep between. I'm not sure there's a place between.

Make a plan on what you want to do on that stretch. What you don't get done on the way up you can plan on doing on the way down.

Last year we saw a mother black bear and 3 cubs. I got a lot of photos of them. Then along the highway I noticed a black bear up a small hill eating berries. I stopped and got a bunch of great shots (photos at: www.travelwalks.com). I'm not smart enough to be afraid.

We spent one day (2 nights at Beckers Chalet) in Jasper and that was probably enough. On that day I drove down Maligne Road early and late looking for wildlife. I didn't find any bears but a deer and got a fair number of shots.

Then we went to Maligne Canyon. Worth an hour but so-so. Then we drove a little below Jasper and to Path of the Glaciers. Do this in the morning while the sun is to your back. Spectacular view of Angel Glacier. The sign says the path is closed down to the lake. Do it anyway. There's a clear trail down. About 20% of the people do that.

Then we drove back up to the town (Jasper) and hike the Old Fort Point loop. The view from the top is great but I expected more scenery on the hike.

On our day driving up it rained on and off so we skipped a lot and did most on the way down.

From south to north.

Herbert Lake & Hector Lake for scenery stops.

* Bow Summit. Short, easy hike to Peyto Lake viewpoint. Competition for good viewing spots. Many people. About an hour total.

* Mistaya Canyon. A short, easy hike to the canyon. Many photo ops at different spots. About an hour total.

Two hikes we didn't do since it rained on the way up and not enough time on the way down. Parker Ridge and Wilcox Pass to the first viewpoint only.

Icefields Center. After viewing from the center, drive across the highway and into the parking lot. You can hike to the edge of the Athabasca Glacier and if you're brave (or stupid like me) you can hike partway up the glacier. Even on a warm day put on all your clothing. We put on sweatpants, sweatshirt, rain clothing and it was still freezing cold and windy. But worth it.

Tangle Falls. This is a scenery stop. The falls are roadside on the north side of the road. Beautiful waterfall. The sign says Tangle Creek.

Beauty Creek. No sign but it's 2km south of the Beauty Creek campground. On the north side of the highway. Very nice hike along a canyon. There are numerous falls and I don't think we actually got to Stanley Falls. Too bad.

There are numerous roadside stops with great scenery.

You can do a search for all of the above.

There's also an Icefields map will km markings with the above and more.

We saw less wildlife than I saw last year. Maybe because of the wildfires. Maybe they went away. I've been to Banff twice before and every time I drove down Lake Minnewanka road I saw either bighorn or ewes. Not this year.

I have a Canon 70D with a 15-85 scenery lens and a 70-300L lens for wildlife. I don't have enough long horsepower but I had to compromise so that I could carry it hiking.

We did see some wildlife on Mt Norquay across from Banff Townsite. Saw a coyote, a goat and a few deer.

If you have any questions . . .

sludick

Myer, I just wanted to take this opportunity to tell you how much I enjoy some of your posts of our favorite areas. Great both for mining as I plan trips, but also a reminder of some wonderful trips. Thanks.

panecott

Wow, some great info here, Myer. Thank you.

I'll read it over and do some more reading of my guide book, and I'm sure I'll have more questions.

Myer

sludick, panecott,

Thanks for the kind words. I received a lot of info on this board and I'm just trying to help in return.

kgsneds

A few comments...

There are two hotels by the lake in Lake Louise - the Chateau Lake Louise and the Deer Lodge. The latter is a few minutes walk from the lake, but has great views of the lake from the hot tub. Paradise is another few minutes walk down the road.

For food, you have a variety of options, depending on whether you want to drive. There's always the Chateau, and the Deer Lodge has good food (opt for the cheaper menu at the bar/lounge rather than the formal dining room). The downstairs lounge at the Post Hotel has good food, and there's an inexpensive, but good cafe at the Lake Louise Hi/ACC Hostel. Plus a couple of other options.

There are several options for lodging along the Icefields Parkway, though they tend to be expensive and underwhelming. Num Ti Jah is in a spectacular setting, but quite expensive and rather rustic. The reviews also suggest it's getting a bit rundown. There is a hotel at the Icefields Centre, but I can't imagine wanting to staying at tourist central. The other option is Sunwapta - I've stayed there and it's nice with good food, but nothing special. I would suggest doing the drive as a full day and not staying along the highway. Especially at the end of September, days will be shorter and you could well encounter below freezing temps/snow up in the higher altitude areas (like Num Ti Jah).

Contrary to what was indicated early, please do NOT hike on trails if the sign says they are shut. Closures are for good reasons - often because of wildlife or to protect delicate alpine/mountain flora early in the season. The latter is quite true at Edith Cavell, plus there are safety issues with the glacier and there is apparently an alternate trail now. If you aren't sure, check in at one of the Parks Canada Centres.

Also DONT hike on the glaciers. It's ALL stupid and you are risking your life. I've had someone on my rope team fall part way into a hidden crevasse and know several people who've ended up in crevasses (roped up fortunately). It's no laughing matter, and the most dangerous crevasses are the ones that are hidden.

You should only go on the a glacier with proper gear, and training and/or on a course with a certified guide. Otherwise do the Icefields Explorer tour or book one of the half or full day excursions with a certified guide.

I've seen plenty of wildlife this year in the parks - the wildfire was not an issue other than right at the fire site. It's more often a matter of luck and time of year/day/season.

I quite like Emerald Lake - the glacial moraine at the far end is fascinating. You can walk completely around the lake and see a striking number of different landscapes/plants. And walk as far up on the moraine/mountainside as time or conditions permit.

I agree that Banff is touristy - my preference is Canmore. But I am just as often in the mountains to climb in the Canmore area, and prefer not to deal with the traffic jam that is Banff. If you stay in Banff, park once and walk or use public transport to get around town. End of September should be a lot better, but you could hit larch season when there are a ton of tourists in town to see the larch trees in their full fall colors. At that time, you may have to take a shuttle to get to Moraine Lake, so do that first thing or later in the day when it's less crowded.

panecott

Thanks, kgs, for more great info. Canmore was my original first choice so I will probably stick with that. Just thinking about crowds in Banff makes me unhappy! I'd much rather do it as a day trip.

Based on Myer's and your opinions I guess I will drop the idea of staying overnight at the Icefields, but do you have an opinion on 5 nights in Jasper?

If that's too much, I can still cut off one night either at the beginning or the end. That would give me 4 nights and 3 full days in Lake Louise at the start, or 4 nights in Canmore at the end - 3 full days plus the driving day.

There does seem to be a lot more to do in the Banff/Canmore area. You are obviously very familiar and knowledgeable so I'd welcome your input.

Do you know anything about Kananaskis country or Canada's Glacier NP, and is the latter doable for a day trip?

Myer

I guess kgsneds was referring to some of the things I wrote.

I agree about not going on the glacier even though I did.

I disagree about the trail down to the lake below Angel Glacier. The warning tells you about not walking up to the bottom of Angel Glacier. I definitely agree with that as pieces can easily break off. But there's nothing wrong with walking down the well-marked open path to the run-off lake as long as you stay on the side opposite the glacier. Difficult to explain but very clear when you're there.

Seeing wildlife requires 3 things: going to the right places, going at the right times and bringing with your horseshoe.

I was in Banff and Jasper for 2 1/2 days last year and saw quite a bit of wildlife. This year I was there for about 5 days and saw less. Bears last year but not this year. I thought maybe the fires had something to do with it. I guess not.

We did a few hikes in the Lake Louise / Moraine Lake area but only looked for wildlife in the Banff Townsite area. If Paradise (I finalized our plans a bit late) Lodge had our first 3 night available I might have gone for that. Either way it's still closer than staying at Canmore.

Yes, I remember Deer Lodge a bit down the road from the lake (Louise). I don't remember the issue with it. I knew it wasn't in the town near the train.

There's really no reason to stay along the Parkway. Make a list of what you want to do and about how long each should take. Then whatever you don't do on the way up should get done on the way down. It photography is a priority then remember that anything visible from the road that's on the west side is better seen in the morning and the opposite holds true for sights on the east side. So Herbert and Hector Lakes are best stopped for in the morning.

In Yoho we did go to Emerald Lake. While it was very nice, Moraine Lake and Lake Louise are in the same category. Except that for your drive there will be less people at Emerald Lake.

I was very impressed with Takakkaw Falls. Several places to view the falls and all unobstructed. Unlike some of the falls (Athabasca, Sunwalpta) that had viewing bridges build very close to the falls so that you don't have a great view.

Tangle Falls is an exception. Park the car opposite the falls and cross the road. Best seen in the afternoon since it's on the east side of the road. Very nice waterfall.

I noticed something over the past few years. There seemed to be more people at Moraine Lake this year than last and several years before. Maybe it's finally getting its due respect. Or maybe just more people.

What I don't like about some of the parks in Canada as opposed to the US is that they have tourist towns inside the park. However, the advantage is that you have many more choices for lodging and eating.

I'm not a sit-around type of person. So one full day in Jasper was enough for me. If we were there an extra day I would have gone to Edith Cavell Rd the next day and get there a bit earlier. I might have checked out the Patricia and Pyramid Lake areas.

I started and ended each day on Maligne Road looking for wildlife. On our one full day we spent time in Maligne Canyon, then went to Edith Cavell (Angel Glacier) and back up to Old Fort Point.

Since we booked late there wasn't much lodging available in Jasper. We managed a little cabin at Beckers Chalet just below the town. I would definitely stay there again and hopefully in a slightly larger cabin.

I would think 5 nights in Jasper is a bit much. Unless you like to sit around and do everything available in the area.

About some of the area parks. I did read a bit about a few other parks just in case the wildfire was an issue. Eventually I decided to leave the plan as is and live with it. The only issue we had was on and off rain the day we went up to Jasper. We ended up skipping both Parker Ridge and Wilcox Pass.

I have a different view about crowds than a lot of people. I very seldom find a lot of people an issue. Most of the time if you go a hundred yards from the car 80% of the people are gone.

A few exceptions are Bow Summit (Peyto Lake viewpoint), Moraine Lake Rock pile and Lake Louise (the lake). Finding a parking space at Moriane Lake is more of an issue than dealing with the people who are there.

sludick

We've stayed at Deer Lodge, and it's just such a neat place. Just a short walk over to Fairmont yet seems to be removed from the touristy stuff. I believe it was first built for the Swiss mountaineers who were recruited to the area. You have a choice of rooms (we picked the older section for atmosphere), but they all have nice amenities. They are known for the kitchen and wine list (wines are pricey, though).

Certainly I would recommend you take a look at a stay there: http://www.crmr.com/deer/

As far as crowds in Banff: in mid-September, you will miss most of the "crowds." Certainly, anybody who has been to parks like Yosemite would get a laugh out of imagining the visitors to Banff at that time to be anything comparable. Having said that, Canmore is a good choice about 20 minutes away but lots of restaurants and other amenities, and more affordable.

In Jasper, we have stayed at Patricia Lake Bungalows. It's a very restful area off the main road but close to town. Next time we return, I'm planning an extra day just to hang around there. You might see some elk in the parking lot then (they hang stuff on the large office windows to keep the elk from seeing their reflection and charging the glass during rut). http://www.patricialakebungalows.com/


You have chosen a favorite time of year for the trip for us; should be fun.

panecott

Thanks, sludick and Myer for this additional info. I actually tried to book Deer Lodge but it was not available. The bungalows in Jasper look nice, and less expensive than where I've booked so I'll look into them.

I'll be away for a long holiday weekend and will do some more research and will surely be back with more questions.

troy87

I think five nights in Jasper is a bit much. Unless you like to sit around then do everything available in that area.

kgsneds

Firstly, the whole Edith Cavell area is closed now due to a mudslide (why they had the warnings & closures in the first place!), so the discussion is moot, but...

At the Angel Glacier (in the off chance it is open again), I would obey the signs. Parks Canada does not block off trails without good reason - it takes time and effort to enforce. And if you violate closures it can be a very expensive fine.

Early in the season (until early July), they restrict access to that area to protect the delicate flora. The other issue is again safety - the glacial seracs may fall on the other side of the lake, but if seracs fall into or near they lake, they can cause significant flash flooding. The only reason people weren't hurt or killed two years ago when huge chunks of the glacier fell into the lake was that it occurred in the middle of the night. So much water and debris was washed across that the campsite area was nearly destroyed and picnic tables ended up buried to their tops. And now we just had a big mudslide...

I agree that 5 nights in Jasper is probably overkill. You could do one day for Maligne Lake/Maligne Canyon, another day to go over to Mt. Robson, a third for other local trails/Edith Cavell, but beyond that, things get a bit limited unless you are really into hiking/climbing (lots of good hikes that could take up many days, but most folks aren't looking for that many days of hiking). Given the choice, I'd probably spend those days in Banff and/or Canmore or Lake Louise.

There must be something happening in Lake Louise mid-September other than simply larches/fall festival because even the huge Lake Louise Hostel is totally booked for one Saturday night. That's unusual, even for that time of year. I also really like the Deer Lodge, but always warn people that it is an older building, so it's not for everyone. The bathrooms can be small & quirky and the walls thin.

I happen to really like Kananaskis Country - it's not an area I'd ever been to until this past year, but it is every bit as spectacular as the national parks. You can access it easiest from Canmore, though some roads are not paved, which can be an issue as many or most rental car agreements prohibit driving on unpaved roads. And the unpaved Spray Lakes road beyond Grassi Lakes tends to be very dusty/gritty, so is a prime place to get windshield chips etc. The Canmore Nordic Centre/Grassi Lakes area is nice for day walks/hikes, and you can do some nice hikes from the Rt. 40 access (about 20-25 minutes back towards Calgary on the TransCanada) which is the main road into K-Country.

Around Canmore, you can do the cave tours, and also hike into Grotto Canyon to see pictographs. If you want to see some of the impact of the flood, you can hike up Cougar Canyon from Canmore (and also see lots of rock climbers). There is a whole network of trails in the Canmore area for hiking, walking and mountain biking. East End of Rundle (EEOR) is a popular day hike/scramble as is Ha Ling, but access to both does require going a bit on the unpaved road beyond Grassi. In mid September it probably will also still be quite nice enough for canoeing or kayaking on the river and taking the gondola up in Banff or Lake Louise if the weather is good.

Glacier can be done as a day trip, though it is a long trip and I don't know whether it would be worth it. Roger's Pass is pretty spectacular, but not that different from what you'd see around Banff and Canmore. I'd instead spend a day or two exploring YoHo.

I think what makes Emerald Lake stand out is that you can hike completely around the Lake (not possible at Lake Louise, Moraine Lake or Maligne Lake), and you can explore the glacial moraine and the mountains above it without any group-of-4 restrictions. Plus it's an easier drive in that other locations without the tourist crowding. From Takkakaw Falls, an hour or so hike can take you up to other pretty waterfalls. It's also an easy hike into Wapta Falls, plus fun to walk around Field.

It is worth remembering that Jasper and Banff (the townsites) long pre-dated the national parks. They were railroad towns, and by the time the parks were formalized, there was no point in getting rid of the people and making them ghost towns. My understanding is that the townsite boundaries have changed very little. And plenty of US national parks have townsites in them - Grand Canyon, for instance, has plenty of commercialization on the rims (and the ranch in the canyon) as well as as at least one town with housing & stores. Yosemite has at least one townsite.

kgsneds

Again, moot point now, but the explanation from Parks Canada for why the trail to the edge of the lake is closed:

"Recent large scale landscape change occurred in the summer of 2012, when the Ghost Glacier fell from Mount Edith Cavell, causing a massive debris flood down the valley. Terrain instability, falling rock and ice continue to pose significant hazards beyond the viewpoint area- travel to the pond’s edge of beneath the Angel Glacier is not advised. This area is now closed for your safety – please respect all signs, remain on trails and admire the scene from the viewpoints provided. "

As I said, seracs falling on one side of the lake can cause not insignificant danger on the other side of the lake. For those who haven't traveled on glaciers or who don't do a lot of mountaineering, it can hard to grasp how far rock/ice can fall and the damage that can be caused at quite a distance. I know that rock (and ice) fall has been a big problem this year, and late summer, when the snow/glaciers are melted fully back and temperatures are the highest, is the worst time for ice/rock falling and slides. Last September when I was up on the Wapta Icefields, we had number of huge rocks release without warning from a mountain above us, but our guide had fortunately insisted that we stay far away from any of the mountain sides.

Myer

kgsneds,

It's funny you mention Grand Canyon and Yosemite. Those are two of my least favorite parks.

Grand Canyon because I just think just about every other park in the area is more interesting and Yosemite more for the way they run the park. It's the most commercial park I've been to. Every thing is intended to get you to buy a ticket for something. Also, they close parking lots at Yosemite Lodge during the day and reserve them for bus tours and restaurant reservations. If you're in the building opposite the main office you're out of luck for parking. You just drive around looking for a space somewhere.

There should be enough parking for at least 1 vehicle for each unit at that building.

I understand the issue with the towns predating the parks. As I wrote, there's good and bad for both.

kgsneds

FYI, the day use area at Edith Cavell is re-eopening tomorrow (Friday), though it's possible some of the trails may still be shut.