Climb Uluru (Ayers Rock)?

I climbed it back in 1992. We had to sign up for a tour, and we were bused out to the rock. They made us start at 7:00 a.m. to avoid the daytime heat. It was July and freezing at the top. My ears were numb. Climbing the rock took 45 minutes and they had a book at the top that we could sign are name on. Well, that was a few years ago. The rock is steep but there is good traction

BTW, there isn't a lot to do in Uluru but swat flies and climb the rock.

I am friends with an Australian family of Aboriginal descent and would not climb the rock.

KEITH: by all means climb the rock! it is a great climb and a wonderful view. It is indeed sacred to the Aboriginals, but only mild "pressure" will be put on you not to climb. It is not considered "bad luck" to climb it either. If you do chose to climb you will not be alone! Hundreds of tourists, but only a few in their 50s & 60's can do it .I hope you are in good shape or in your 20's/30's, climb slow and deliberate, do not wander off the marked path, bring water, and a hat that will not blow off.

I respect the Aboriginal ownership of the land and wish them no disrespect, and I will be eternally grateful that they allowed me to climb Uluru a few years back; but without the Choice to climb the rock it just isn't worth the trip all the way to the center of Australia.

I don't think you will experience any guilt after you pay the fee to enter the Uluru- Kata Tjuta National Park; just hope for good weather.

Kaith (and tampatramp), I'm not getting something here. You understand that Uluru has religious significance for the local people and that they don't like people walking on it. But if they don't lay undue "pressure" on you, you'll do it anyway in the full knowledge that you're giving offense to your hosts.

Would you march into a Buddhist temple in shorts and hiking boots because the monks hadn't pressured you not to? Would you walk up to the altar rail in an English cathedral to take a flash photo of the communicants because the vergers hadn't asked you not to?

If you wouldn't, you must have constructed some sort of cultural hierarchy in which the sensitivities of indigenous Australians are unimportant in the scheme of things. If this isn't racism I don't know what is.

I am totally with Neil on this one. The Anangu owners are deeply disturbed by climbers desecrating their most sacred sites, but it does not appear to be in their nature to act on this by prohibiting climbing. I am also under the impression that this was part of the deal when the government agreed to return ownership of Uluru - that climbing would still be permitted.

There will be no undue pressure put on you to climb - just a sign asking you not to. Still, I would ask any prospective climber to reconsider their position. There are lots of things in this world that are just plain wrong to do, but nobody will stop you if you insist. Please go to the Uluru - Kata Tjuta Cultural Centre to learn a little bit more about this issue, and consider taking a guided walk around the base. There is an Anangu-guided walk, called the Mutijulu Walk, where your guide will describe in some detail the sacredness of specific locations.

I too would love to climb Uluru, but I gave up on that dream after learning a little more. I hope you do to. Instead, take a hike in Kata Tjuta, such as the spectacular Valley of the Winds trail. If you still want to do some climbing, consider driving over to Watarrka National Park, and climb King's Canyon. It is a great view, particularly at sunrise.

The worst part is that the Anangu feel responsible for all the climbers who injure (or kill) themselves while climbing Uluru. One individual summed it up best for me - he said that it would be like allowing guests into your home, but most of the electrical wiring is uninsulated and exposed. Imagine how you would feel if one of your guests was electrocuted after you fully knew the risks the guest was taking in your home.

I was at Uluru two years ago and people were climbing the rock and there was no one at the botom to discourage anyone from climbing. We decided not to climb. There is a chain part way up to give you support on the steepest part of the climb. The first 150 feet or so looked steep and nothing to hang on to, but can be climbed with care. It's a doable climb but you have to be careful. On the second day we went out to the rock and we hand a small thunder shower. Some people on the rock did not come down as soon as they saw the storm coming. The wind was strong and was driving the rain almost horisontally. One person with his child had to be rescued by a rescue team with ropes. He slipped and almost fell off the rock twice. It was an agonizing hour to watch the strugle to bring him down with the child. If you decide to climb watch the weather.

Climbing the rock is NOT the only thing to do in the area. I actually prefer Kata Juta (The Olgas) and there is Kings Canyon etc. The Rock is spectacular from ground level and there is an excellent organised walk around the Rock. No-one will put pressure on you not to climb but it is a sacred place to the traditional owners and I would like you to consider respecting that. Cheers!

We visited Uluru Sept 04, and didn't even consider climbing the rock due to the wishes of the Aborigine. Instead, we signed up through our hotel for a guided sunrise trip with a naturalist. She had a small van, only about 8 people. We were picked up before dawn, saw the sunrise on the rock, then she took us to many places around the base. She filled us in on lots of native lore as well as flora and fauna of the area, which we would not have been privy to had we gone out on our own. Felt we saw the rock and learned some nature, very important to us.

Neil_Oz (& ALF), I'm not sure what you don't get, I understand the religious significance, yet they still don't prohibit climbing. I obey the signs, I remove my boots at Budist temples, remove or put on a hat at other temples and observe the signs regarding photos, even buying a camera "permit" when required. I did visit the Cultural Center when I was at Uluru - a great place to visit and learn.

It is my understanding that the Anangu owners can, and one day might, ban climbing. And until they do it will remain a place on my recommended places for friends to visit; and to climb it if they are physically able. I know the Aboriginal people realize that other cultures (mine in particular) find climbing structures culturally significant and is an important part of tourism. I think that they are smart enough to realize that without the option to climb , Uluru might not be a prime tourist destination.

As for the safety involved, there were no problems for the approximateley hundred tourists when I was there. Common sense is certainly important. And when guests come into my house with all my exposed wiring...wait a minute! I don't charge guests to come into my house.

So Keith, I say climb the rock; or as wally says: "there isn't a lot to do in Uluru but swat flies and climb the rock."

Culture aside, Uluru is after all just a rock, and existed long before the Anangu people (not Mr. Ayers) discovered it. And long, long before any humans existed.

And BTW Neil, I have fought racism all my life, even going to jail, so my guess is you Don't know what racism is. I think your comment is way out of line. But I mean no offense to you personally as you have been very helpful to me planning my trip later this month.

My wife and I climbed Uluru in 1991. At that time, we were not even aware that the Anangu did not want people to climb. I cannot recall ever hearing about it. Knowing what I know now, I will respect their wishes and not climb (I will be back there this August for the first time in 15 years). The climb itself can be somewhat treacherous. Once you get to the top, you have to climb your way in and out of a series of crevices before you can get to the flat top where the signing book is. Coming down was so steep that we sat down and semi-slid our way down (we did a number on our jeans). It was an experience, but not one to be taken lightly just from the perspective of the climb itself. By the way, I am afraid of open heights and if you have anything like that, it can be scary at parts.

tampatramp, I guess they were fightin' words, but short of being mealy-mouthed I could only call it the way I saw it. My point stands: I still can't see why doing something which as we all seem to agree causes offense, possibly even distress, because it's not actually banned, is morally OK. Still less because the custodians may be torn between an economic imperative and permitting something that violates their ancient and complex relation to the physical world. What are we saying here - "if it feels good, do it?"

Speaking for myself only, I don't feel much cultural significance in climbing over things, certainly not equal to the local people's preference for us to desist.

Having said all that, if you've been jailed for fighting racism my hat goes off to you.

Just got back from Ayers Rock (Uluru ) 2 days ago.

Personally I would not climb the rock.

No pressure was put on me to climb or not to climb but just the fact that the Aborigine would prefer that you do not is good enough for me.

I would purchase a head net cost is about $6.50 because the flies will drive you crazy.

After you have seen the Rock , visited the Olga's.... took all your pictures...then there is no much else to do ...so move on to another place...we flew to Cairns to do the Great Barrier Reef.

Percy

As a retired clinical psychologist, please allow me to weigh in on the guilt issue. The very fact that you have raised it here, suggests the possibility of conflicted feelings in the future. I would encourage you to tune into the rational side of your brain and "do the right thing". I am sure you can determine what course of action that would be.

Another issue that may be understated is the inherent danger of attempting the climb. When we were there last year, I believe we we told that 35+ people had died, over the years, trying to make the climb.

Orlando_Vic, please be clear I never raised the guilt issue, nor have I nor any one I know who has climbed the rock, experienced any guilt. The rational side of my brain does indeed say to do the right thing and that is to climb the rock, visit and learn at the cultural center and support the Aboriginal "economic imperative" and encourage tourism.

The real issue that is understated, is to give credit to the Anangu who explained to me that they do not wish me or any othe climbers any ill will and that Uluru, while sacred and shouldn't be climbed, is not bad luck to climb. They were very nice and understanding.

As for the safety of climbing, all outdoor activities are dangerous. We were told 1 or 2 or a few people die each year climbing Uluru either because they deviate off the marked path (usually to catch their hat that blew off) or suffered a heart attack by not being in shape or trying to keep up with the younger climbers. It is not a dangerous climb in and of itself, and so I told my daughter (who is not in great shape, but young) to climb it, and she enjoyed it greatly. So I tell everyone it is a great climb, not to be missed-weather permitting.

What is dangerous, if you do live in Orlando, is to visit the beaches near Tampa. There have been at least 35 people killed crossing the street to or from the beach in the last 6 years I have lived in this tourist town.

I hope to climb Uluru again one day; but my trip later this month to Darwin takes me (with the special permission of the local people) to the Aboriginal Arnhem land. I am happy to spend my tourist dollars there as I was at Uluru.

Orlando_Vic, thanks for giving us a professional perspective on the guilt issue. This puzzled me, as the poster seemed to be linking the likely severity of guilt to the public disapproval he fears. I may have misinterpreted him, of course, in which case I apologise, but whenever I've felt guilty about something, it hasn't seemed to matter whether my transgression was on public display (in which case embarrassment was the more likely emotion) or known only to me.

It would not surprise me to learn that most climbers do not suffer any pangs of guilt. Those who might feel guilty are probably the ones who elect not to climb in the first place.

Against the public wishes of the Anangu, I climbed Uluru. I'm sorry but wild horses couldn't have kept me from doing it as long as it was legal and safe to do so. It is an awesome natural spectacle. I also did the walk around Uluru, part of it listening in on an Aboriginal guide. Wonderful.

I believe what the Anangu find most irritating is not climbing the rock itself but the attitude of many of the visitors that do so (and even some of those who don't): considering the rock as a trophy, a "been there done that", a photo op, a quick stopover on a busy itinerary.

Why climb it, when the top is only place in the area where you can't see it?

The people who live there don't want you to climb it. They feel like you're walking on THEM when you climb it. So don't climb it.

Walk around it.

fnarf999, you just don't get it. The rule is this: "I've spent a lot of money to get here - if I feel like doing it, I will, irrespective of the locals' attitude." Like I said - "if it feels good, do it".

BTW, as nothing has been heard of him lately it looks like the OP (KE1TH) is a troll. But it's been an intesresting discussion anyway.

Neil; fnarf: you both get it: The people who live there don't want us jetting in and out for a quick sunset photo either. You are selective in your political correctness.

Not necessarily....I meant to say you are selective in your politically correct indignation with those who do the climb as opposed to the "been there done that" set.

Anyone with a smidgin of knowledge about Aboriginal people would know that it is not in their nature, nor their culture, to come out with a direct "no". Hence the seemingly evasive answers quoted above from local Aborigines. They are trying to politely ask tourists not to clamber over a sacred site. How simple is that.

Neil_Oz, you offend me. If you cannot answer a question nicely, or at least without calling names, then I'd prefer you not answer my question at all.

I asked a simple question. All the "travel brochure programs" that focus on Australia that I've watched on the Travel Channel etc all say that the Aboriginal people prefer you not climb the rock, then proceed to show you footage of climbing the rock.... so you get a mixed message.

Just like I'm getting here....

So, not only did I get mixed messages, I get insulted. I asked the question on Friday..... I didn't even turn on my computer over the weekend..... it's Monday morning now and I look up this thread to find out what valuable information I might have been told and find out that you think I'm a troll....

I guess that adage that Aussies are a nice bunch doesn't apply to you.

fnarf999, actually from the top of the rock it is the best place to see how large and flat Uluru really is.

And I didn't walk on anybody to get there; I only walked on the rock.

KE1TH, I hope that I answered your question. Wrong as he is on this issue, Neil_Oz, is probably a nice guy too. He does spend a lot of time helping people plan their trips, providing some very good advice. Of course he should have realized not everyone is on their computer every day all day long; but I think you took too much offence at the word "troll". My understanding is it is a computer term for someone who just hops in on a discussion and leaves, and not an evil creature.

So enjoy your trip to Oz. It is true that "Aussies are a nice bunch ". And, IMHO, climbing Uluru will be fantastic experience that you will remember forever!

You won't be the only one climbing the rock.

From the Australian Government Department of the Environment and Heritage Web site (http://www.deh.gov.au/parks/uluru/no-climb.html):

Please Don't Climb Uluru
Nganana Tatintja Wiya - 'We Never Climb'

The Uluru climb is the traditional route taken by ancestral Mala men upon their arrival to Uluru. Anangu do not climb Uluru because of its great spiritual significance.

Anangu have not closed the climb. They prefer that you - out of education and understanding - choose to respect their law and culture by not climbing. Remember that you are a guest on Anangu land.

Also, Anangu traditionally have a duty to safeguard visitors to their land. They feel great sadness when a person dies or is hurt.

Please read our safety page to find out what precautions you need to take when visiting Uluru - Kata Tjuta National Park.

If you visit the Cultural Centre you will learn more about the significance of Uluru in Anangu law and culture. Please do this before you decide whether to climb. There are many other activities and walks available in the park.

Please also note that the climb will be closed when weather conditions are predicted to exceed certain safety thresholds (temperature, rain, cloud, wind etc.).

Other Uluru Climbing Links:

http://www.crystalinks.com/ayersrock.html
"Climbing Uluru - The local indigenous community request that visitors respect the sacred status of Uluru by not climbing the rock, with signs posted to this effect. In 1983 the former Prime Minister of Australia, Bob Hawke, promised to respect the request from the community that climbing Uluru be prohibited, but broke his promise when title was handed to the traditional owners in 1985 because access for tourists to climb Uluru was made a condition before they could receive the title. The climb crosses an important dreaming track, which has been a cause of sadness and distress among traditional owners. Neverthless, they are unable to prohibit climbing, and climbing Uluru is a popular attraction for a large fraction of the many tourists who visit it each year."

http://www.sacredland.org/world_sites_pages/Uluru.html
"A major challenge is that of discouraging visitors from climbing Uluru. To Anangu, climbing Uluru is a violation of tjukurpa. (The route of the Uluru climb is the traditional trail taken by ancestral Mala men upon their arrival to Uluru.) Climbing the rock is also dangerous: heat and winds pose a significant threat, and at least 37 people have died while making the climb since tourism has operated in the park. For these reasons, Anangu request that visitors do not climb the rock, there is no official records kept but it is estimated that nearly half of all visitors choose to climb, and visitor surveys indicate that the challenge of getting to the top pulls people like a magnet. Although Anangu tolerate climbing on Uluru, it is clear that commercial pressures have kept the rock open. In 2001, after the death of an elder, Anangu closed the path for a 10-day mourning period, which elicited protests from some government officials and members of the region’s tourist industry. Many feared that the temporary closure might lead to a permanent ban, but to date, no such plan is in place.”


http://www.lonelyplanet.com/columns/traveller_archive/22may01/traveller_index.htm
"There is still considerable confusion among non-Aboriginals about this issue. Before I left Melbourne, I asked two dozen people if I should climb or not, and about half of them said that as long as I didn't get injured on the path, it would be OK to make the climb.
Clearly, this is not what the words in the pamphlet imply. The pain just beneath the surface of those words is palpable. Basically, it seems to me, the Aboriginals want to say, 'This is a sacred site and you can't climb it,' but instead they have reached a compromise with the government that maintains a chain-path ascending the rock and permits visitors to make the climb along that chain. (While the Aboriginals own the land, they lease it to the government for tourism use.) You can imagine the economics and politics of persuasion that underlie this compromise.
But when I made my way out to the rock on Tuesday, the climbing entrance area was cordoned off and the chain-path was closed - clearly, strictly, no exceptions allowed. Signs stated that due to the death of the elder, climbing was not being permitted at this time. A park ranger explained that the elder had been a member of the Mala tribe that was traditionally responsible for the ancient path the climbing route follows, and that the path was closed as part of the practices associated with the period of mourning.
Most of the visitors around me seemed to accept this, but a few were outraged. 'What the bloody hell is this all about?' one Aussie said to me. 'I'm just gonna go tomorrow and bolt up the hill, mate - what can they do?'
And I overheard a Brit turn to his group and mutter, 'We've come all the way around the world for this?'
Over the next few days news reports said that tourists had begun to complain about the closure of the climb and to agitate for it to be opened again.
Part of me could understand the disappointment and even the outrage of people who had traveled for days to make what seemed to them a kind of pilgrimage. For some, this may have been a once-in-a-lifetime trip. They had saved and planned and looked forward to it for months, maybe even years. And if climbing Uluru was supposed to be the climax of that trip, well, being forbidden to make the climb would be profoundly upsetting.
Part of me was disappointed as well. Part of me had been looking forward to the challenge of the climb, and to the view of the Outback spreading away sere and red to the horizon, and especially to the sense of oneness that I thought I would feel with the rock as I pulled myself up its flank.
But the more I thought about it, the more I felt uniquely privileged to be denied the possibility of making the climb. This very denial affirmed that the ancient rites and beliefs still abide, that they are as valid and vital today as they have been for centuries. After all, it is these rites and beliefs that comprise the spiritual foundation of Uluru. In honoring them, we honor and sustain the sanctity of the site.
And in doing that, I realized, we honor and sustain some fundamental human impulse that extends far beyond that one red rock monolith in the heart of Australia. By not climbing Uluru, by not being allowed to climb Uluru, I was paying homage to an ancient spirit - call it awe, call it worship, call it faith in something that, unknowable, gives shape and sense to life - that infuses and connects all the peoples of the world.
The death of that cherished elder - and the rites and restraints attending his death - taught me something irreplaceable about life.
As it turned out, I'll never forget the view from the base of Uluru."

Sorry, KE1TH. You're right, I'm actually a proper bastard, and to make matters worse, sometimes my troll radar develops a fault. But thanks, tampatramp, for giving me the benefit of the doubt - that's true Southern politeness.

I do note that several of the nice people on this forum, as well as the resident bastard, are also finding it hard to follow the argument that it's OK to climb the rock.

I'm a little tired of people using the threadbare term "political correctness" to describe any opinion that the writer disapproves of, usually for want of an effective counter-argument. I think that's what's known as the ad hominem approach to debate.

I'm not sure that this is a question of one side being right and the other wrong, just one of good manners. Surely the issue is straightforward enough if we apply the "do as you would be done by" rule.

I notice that Ralph has brought up the term " political correctness". Now let me inform the people reading this post that it was the USA who brought in the concept of political correctness and in fact still tend to abide by those ideas. Australians are not like Americans, I doubt that any of us follow the ideas of political correctness one little bit. Why should we, we have minds of our own and can make our own decisions about issues without the help of politicians. Having said that I cannot understand why anyone goes to Ayers Rock myself when there is a far better one in Western Australia, far bigger and in much more magnificent surroundings. I feel that the cost of going to Ayers Rock is too much to see too little when there are many more magnificent areas which are not frequented by tourists.
The issue of whether to climb the rock or not is, and should be, your own. You know that it does not make the local Aboriginal owners happy but if you can live with the fact that you are headstrong and insensitive then go ahead. Try climbing the Opera House too while you are in Sydney as the view is wonderful from there too but don't be surprised if the white Australians are more offended and proactive to that sort of disrespect than the elders of Uluru.

If it was safe and legal to climb the Opera House, I'd do that too, just as I did Uluru, the Harbour Bridge, Mt Beerwah, Mt Barney, Pigeon House and dozens of others. I'm sure they're all sacred to somebody, or at least they were.

"...the Canadian Oxford Dictionary ... defines political correctness as 'the avoidance of forms of expression or action that exclude, marginalize, or insult certain racial or cultural groups'...

"Liberal and progressive commentators ... argue that the term ... was hijacked by (US) conservatives around 1980 and redefined as a way to reframe the political scene ... and that many who use the term are attempting to distract attention from substantive debates over discrimination and unequal treatment based on race, class, and gender.."
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

Neil: I meant "political correctness" in the pure sense as defined by the Canadian Oxford Dictionary. It is a good thing and it has made some of the world a better place. I don't fault you for being that way. Some of us, myself included, just aren't that good at it sometimes.

No worries, Ralph. I've been called worse (like "chardonnay-sipping leftie", which as a red drinker I really resent).

Neil, I just want to clarify : are you a proper bastard or a literal bastard? Before I hand you the keys to my apartment, I should know just what kind of a bastard I'm entertaining, eh

AndrewDavid

A/D, I can be flexible - what sort of bastard would you prefer to entertain? (When I took up family history I discovered only one literal bastard, my grandfather, but judging by the marriage and birth records there were quite a few close calls.)

>>Before I hand you the keys to my apartment, I should know just what kind of a bastard I'm entertaining, eh<<

I'm glad to see you're becoming fluent in Canadian.

Lee Ann

Lee Ann, not only fluent in Canadian but North Queenslandese.