Australia or China for 15 days with 40 sixth graders?
Sep 21st, 2007, 03:36 PM
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Australia or China for 15 days with 40 sixth graders?
In June, I'll visit China or Australia(with 40 sixth graders and 3 other teachers). I'm excited because I've never been to Asia or the South Pacific.
In China we would be in Beijin, Xian, Shanghai, and Hong Kong, Suzhou.
In Australia I'd go to the Great Barrier Reef, Sydney, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast, Yeppoon.
I'm pouring over websites and guide books to no end. What would you choose?
In China we would be in Beijin, Xian, Shanghai, and Hong Kong, Suzhou.
In Australia I'd go to the Great Barrier Reef, Sydney, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast, Yeppoon.
I'm pouring over websites and guide books to no end. What would you choose?
Sep 21st, 2007, 07:35 PM
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Yeppoon would not be on my list of places to see - its an ok place if you live in Rockhampton but then most people would not live in Rockhampton!
I would think that if I had not been to the S.P or Asia and I was going on my own or with other adults only, then China would be the place of choice just because of its difference in culture BUT with 40 6th graders I would not wish that on my worst enemy. Too many difficulties in too many areas.
I would think that if I had not been to the S.P or Asia and I was going on my own or with other adults only, then China would be the place of choice just because of its difference in culture BUT with 40 6th graders I would not wish that on my worst enemy. Too many difficulties in too many areas.
Sep 21st, 2007, 09:30 PM
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I would probably choose Australia from a safety point of view...at least if they get lost they can speak the language. I assume you are coming from US.My top destinations in Australia would be
Uluru(Formerly Ayrers Rock) Achance to see the Aust outback, See some Aboriginal culture and see the Milky Way at night.
Kakadu national Park
The great barrier Reef
Frazer Island
Possibly Byron Bay
Sydney with a trip to the Blue mountains.
Tasmania should be on this list but it is a long way out of your way.
We had an exhange student stay with us in Brisbane a few years ago and they did this trip without Sydney on a bus in about 2 weeks. It would have been tiring and they were all 16year olds.
Uluru(Formerly Ayrers Rock) Achance to see the Aust outback, See some Aboriginal culture and see the Milky Way at night.
Kakadu national Park
The great barrier Reef
Frazer Island
Possibly Byron Bay
Sydney with a trip to the Blue mountains.
Tasmania should be on this list but it is a long way out of your way.
We had an exhange student stay with us in Brisbane a few years ago and they did this trip without Sydney on a bus in about 2 weeks. It would have been tiring and they were all 16year olds.
Sep 22nd, 2007, 03:12 PM
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paris, this is really a case of comparing apples with oranges, so I agree with Saltuarius that it's difficult to comment without knowing what you want your kids to get out of the trip in an educational sense.
It will be summer in China, winter in Australia. Australia is a wealthy English-speaking country with 21 million people in a country about the size of the Lower 48 American states, culturally (relatively) not too dissimilar to the US. China is an ancient civilisation and the world's next superpower, with 1.4 billion people in a similar area.
How much time and money have you allocated? The China itinerary in particular would involve considerable internal travel; the logistics of shepherding 40 kids in and out of hotels, airports, museums and other attractions in five widely separated (except for Shanghai and Suzhou) cities seem daunting to me. You may also find yourself in hotels some distance from attractions and need to hire a number of buses.
Do you have a "partner" in China to help with local arrangements, or will you be organising everything from homw (which I presume is in the US)?
I also would be interested to know how you arrived at the Australian itinerary. This comes back to your objectives for the trip - do you want to expose your charges to Australian indigenous culture, history, landscape, wildlife, or what?
One last thought - have you asked your local department of education whether they know of any companies that specialise in putting together expeditions such as yours? I'm all in favour of the DIY approach for individual travel, but...
It will be summer in China, winter in Australia. Australia is a wealthy English-speaking country with 21 million people in a country about the size of the Lower 48 American states, culturally (relatively) not too dissimilar to the US. China is an ancient civilisation and the world's next superpower, with 1.4 billion people in a similar area.
How much time and money have you allocated? The China itinerary in particular would involve considerable internal travel; the logistics of shepherding 40 kids in and out of hotels, airports, museums and other attractions in five widely separated (except for Shanghai and Suzhou) cities seem daunting to me. You may also find yourself in hotels some distance from attractions and need to hire a number of buses.
Do you have a "partner" in China to help with local arrangements, or will you be organising everything from homw (which I presume is in the US)?
I also would be interested to know how you arrived at the Australian itinerary. This comes back to your objectives for the trip - do you want to expose your charges to Australian indigenous culture, history, landscape, wildlife, or what?
One last thought - have you asked your local department of education whether they know of any companies that specialise in putting together expeditions such as yours? I'm all in favour of the DIY approach for individual travel, but...
Sep 23rd, 2007, 11:54 AM
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I've never been to either, but I have explored both fairly extensively on the web. You do realize that if you to China, you cannot just go on your own.
Even Chinese Americans who just want to visit relatives have to "hitchhike" with a tour. So you have to ask the tour guides - there is a big outfit in New York - what they think. They may not want to take on 40 children at once. Assuming they are ok with it, -- well, I am still cringing. In my gut, I feel like there is a 50-50 chance you'll lose a kid for good. On the other hand, Australia's probably about as different from mainland US as Hawaii. Why not just take them on polynesian and volcano tour on the big Island? You wouldn't have to worry about passports or visas, and youd save $1000./kid on travel,
Even Chinese Americans who just want to visit relatives have to "hitchhike" with a tour. So you have to ask the tour guides - there is a big outfit in New York - what they think. They may not want to take on 40 children at once. Assuming they are ok with it, -- well, I am still cringing. In my gut, I feel like there is a 50-50 chance you'll lose a kid for good. On the other hand, Australia's probably about as different from mainland US as Hawaii. Why not just take them on polynesian and volcano tour on the big Island? You wouldn't have to worry about passports or visas, and youd save $1000./kid on travel,
Sep 23rd, 2007, 02:11 PM
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skaiSW, let's not get carried away! It sounds like you've been watching too many old Fu Manchu movies.
You certainly can "just go on your own" to China. We have, and hundreds of thousands of visitors wander unescorted and unguided all over China every year. My concern was purely about the logistics involved in shunting 40 kids around.
Where on earth did you get the idea that "there's a 50-50 chance that you'll lose a kid for good"? I have to be blunt here - this is alarmist nonsense. The Chinese are a good-hearted people who love children, and you can bet that if a lost and distressed foreign kid turned up anywhere, dozens of concerned passers-by would assemble within minutes, all anxious to sort out the problem. Worst case, the kid is returned to his or her hotel (you should always carry your hotel's business card with you).
In my experience such crowds of helpers can produce some hilarious confusion (everyone has the infallibly correct answer to the problem, but few are in agreement), but they're sincere and eventually do the trick.
Police, too, are easy to find, and even if they don't speak English would soon find someone who did. In fact they'd welcome the diversion - China is a law-abiding country and the overstaffed Public Security Bureau doesn't have a lot on its plate.
Having said all that, it would certainly be advisable to engage the services of a guide in each city to help with the organising, arrange transport and generally get people from A to B. We never did, but then there were only two of us, so walking around and hopping cabs was never a problem.
Anyway, while I may be being unfair, I'm not 100% convinced that this is a genuine enquiry. Would a teacher write "pouring" for "poring"? (Um - on second thoughts, these days, quite possibly....)
You certainly can "just go on your own" to China. We have, and hundreds of thousands of visitors wander unescorted and unguided all over China every year. My concern was purely about the logistics involved in shunting 40 kids around.
Where on earth did you get the idea that "there's a 50-50 chance that you'll lose a kid for good"? I have to be blunt here - this is alarmist nonsense. The Chinese are a good-hearted people who love children, and you can bet that if a lost and distressed foreign kid turned up anywhere, dozens of concerned passers-by would assemble within minutes, all anxious to sort out the problem. Worst case, the kid is returned to his or her hotel (you should always carry your hotel's business card with you).
In my experience such crowds of helpers can produce some hilarious confusion (everyone has the infallibly correct answer to the problem, but few are in agreement), but they're sincere and eventually do the trick.
Police, too, are easy to find, and even if they don't speak English would soon find someone who did. In fact they'd welcome the diversion - China is a law-abiding country and the overstaffed Public Security Bureau doesn't have a lot on its plate.
Having said all that, it would certainly be advisable to engage the services of a guide in each city to help with the organising, arrange transport and generally get people from A to B. We never did, but then there were only two of us, so walking around and hopping cabs was never a problem.
Anyway, while I may be being unfair, I'm not 100% convinced that this is a genuine enquiry. Would a teacher write "pouring" for "poring"? (Um - on second thoughts, these days, quite possibly....)
Sep 23rd, 2007, 02:33 PM
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I would like to know where SkaiSW gets the idea that Australia is about the same as Hawaii - you could not be more wrong on that SkaiSW so I suggest that you do not do anymore research on countries on the website that you have been looking at.
Australia about the same as saying that South Africa is like Italy. Well they do both grow grapes for wine!!!!!!!!
Australia about the same as saying that South Africa is like Italy. Well they do both grow grapes for wine!!!!!!!!
Sep 23rd, 2007, 02:39 PM
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And I fully agree with LizzyF on the laughable suggestion that "Australia's probably about as different from mainland US as Hawaii". This is another excellent example of the inadvisability of offering advice about countries one has never visited.
Sep 23rd, 2007, 04:50 PM
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I am actually very happy to hear that I am wrong on both accounts because I am going to Australia in 2008 and was thinking about China for 2009. This year was Hawaii- it was pretty wonderful. Maybe my comments come from browing Tasmania which looks an awful lot like California wine country on the web My time in Australia will be limited to 17 days (absolute maximum), but especially after reading some of your emails, I sense that I don't have the proper locales yet. This is what it was prior to reading Lizzies response:2-days travel to Launceston
3 nights Launceston
4 nights Sydney
1 night Adelaide
3 nights Kangeroo Island
3 nights Cairnes
3 nights Darwin
2 days travel home
P2-days travel to Launceston
3 nights Launceston
4 nights Sydney
1 night Adelaide
3 nights Kangeroo Island
3 nights Cairnes
3 nights Darwin
2 days travel home
Oops I'm in the discussion now - (sorry, Paris)
3 nights Launceston
4 nights Sydney
1 night Adelaide
3 nights Kangeroo Island
3 nights Cairnes
3 nights Darwin
2 days travel home
P2-days travel to Launceston
3 nights Launceston
4 nights Sydney
1 night Adelaide
3 nights Kangeroo Island
3 nights Cairnes
3 nights Darwin
2 days travel home
Oops I'm in the discussion now - (sorry, Paris)
Sep 23rd, 2007, 07:17 PM
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Once again SKaiSW you are wrong about Tassie. It is nothing like your Californian wine region, but it does have some wine growing areas and we drink a lot of it so does that count. Have a look at this site and you should see what I mean - especially the wilderness areas and/or the convict heritage areas
Sep 23rd, 2007, 07:19 PM
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dugh! here is the site http://www.discovertasmania.com.au/h....cfm?SiteID=89
Sep 23rd, 2007, 09:38 PM
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By the by, I never said Australia was like Hawaii. I said that like Hawaii, it was pretty similar to mainland USA. Compared to China or even Italy, it probably is. Also am I making a mistake choosing Launceston over Hobart? I thought Hobart was too city-like, and Launceston looked more unique. And I don't really like casinos....
Sep 23rd, 2007, 10:22 PM
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There is a casino in Launceston too as well as poker machines in just about every club and pub.
Hobart is much the better place. I don't know where you would go in Launceston for a few days and also all of the interesting things are down in the South near Hobart. Finally and possibly a strong issue, especially if you have asthma like me, is that Launceston has an inversion problem so that in winter the smoke from wood fires choke up the air and sits over the Tamar Valley with nowhere to go.
Hobart is much the better place. I don't know where you would go in Launceston for a few days and also all of the interesting things are down in the South near Hobart. Finally and possibly a strong issue, especially if you have asthma like me, is that Launceston has an inversion problem so that in winter the smoke from wood fires choke up the air and sits over the Tamar Valley with nowhere to go.
Sep 24th, 2007, 04:40 AM
#19
I came over to see this post since Paris posted the same thing on the Asia forum,, but never came back to clariy..
Just had to laugh at the comment that Australia is about as different from the Mainland US as Hawaii.
I'm a resident of Hawaii, and believe me, there was no question in our minds as we toured Australia in 2000 that we were in a foreign environment!
I think it could be a great adventure for middle school kids, but I hope that Paris plans to have a tour company handling the logistics whichever country they choose. 4 adults for 40 kids is not enough if they'll be doing this on their own.
Just had to laugh at the comment that Australia is about as different from the Mainland US as Hawaii.
I'm a resident of Hawaii, and believe me, there was no question in our minds as we toured Australia in 2000 that we were in a foreign environment!
I think it could be a great adventure for middle school kids, but I hope that Paris plans to have a tour company handling the logistics whichever country they choose. 4 adults for 40 kids is not enough if they'll be doing this on their own.
Sep 24th, 2007, 05:04 AM
#20
Count me in as one who prefers Hobart to Launceston. I do like the Tamar Valley, but Launceston itself doesn't do much for me. For me TAS isn't about the cities though, it's about the national parks, scenery and wildlife. And wine.
